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i just tell em the basics, and then, "as long as you give it gas, you won't stall out. so don't worry about peeling out, at least you didnt stall." but i work on gas and clutch balance as well

i had difficulty when i first learned, i wasnt quite mature enough in the head at 13 O_O...but i got the hang of it in about a month. yeah i did the same as indy, just driving around on the domestic streets until i was old enough for my permit and then i drove around anywhere with someone over 25 in the car.

Well theres 5 pages to read, and i dont want to read it all ( i tried, a majority of it look like chatting lol)

Heel-toe is more then just keeping your revs up, its more of a precise technique then that.

:Fixed: Im making this easier to understand and explaining more (as i understand more now too)

First things first. A heel-toe is simply the fastest and most complicated way to downshift while braking. Its much smoother, keeps you in your power band longer, and does it all in one move- rather then breaking it down into seperate steps (Saves time- good for racing)
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Start by getting on the brakes with your right toes- If your in gear what do you notice? Your rpms will fall, and theyll fall fast.

While still braking- Push in the clutch with your left foot

Now you need to do two things at once, and this is the "complicated" part. Move the stick to the next gear down- and while your doing that twist your right foot so you can press the gas with your heel while leaving your toes on the brakes (you should now have all 3 pedals pushed in).

One youve raised the revs (more on this later) Release the gas and the clutch together- If you need to keep braking, heel-toe again into the next lowest gear.
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The complicated part is raising the revs- you need to properly rev match. Ever down shift normally- and your rpms rise dramaticly? You need to try to raise your rpms as much as they would have as though you slowly released the clutch. I suggest learning to double clutch while downshifting, so you have a good diea of how to rev match properly.



This post has been edited by sidewaysgts on Sep 9 2004, 11:37 AM

i agree with the above post, but make sure not to just heel and toe before learning how to drive properly braking is important so heel and toe with an unexpierienced driver can be a bad thing, I would suggest going to an autox "auto crossing for those who dont know" they will teach you great driving techniques then you hone your skills.

.is.. that.. your blacktop 20v? it looks so oddly familiar (becuase of that triangle bar) orrr did you just find it off line?

I found it on the net, that cusco triangle bar is nice, and those velocity stacks make me druel.

And here i was just staring at that sexy 20v black top bit of a waste of money USUALLY, but if it can be found for the right price no point in not gettin it

lol, i thought that was my friend's engine bay at first, but his car is white.

I disagree, its just people charge more for them here since they are rare, i can get one for $850 shipped just need a standalone system, thats not bad considering all silver tops usually go for $700. for 150 bucks you get 20+ more WHP than the ST

Thats also in fairly stock format the silvertop uses afm and the blacktop uses map.

If installed pretty much the same- their hp numbers should actualyl be pretty close. the black top will make more horses if only lightly tuned- but not much.

I could pick up a full silveetop engine with harness and ecu for aron 800 bucks. less if i go without the ecu.

The after market ecu id want to use has whats needed to use map as well- instead of afm freing up some horsepower. The black top does have higher compression on the other hand, but with how id tune them either way id end up increasing the compression on either engine.

Anyways- we got into this in the other topic and in further detail so i wont cover it all here- for me and my sues the silver top is a better choice.

But agreed- depending on the price you get the black top for, for minor moding- the black top is better.

Hi everybody
*Hi Dr. Nick*

Alright, my personal opinion here is that Sideways got it right (big surprise ha). First, I have a question for Sideways or Case:
Do you think that it is necessary to Double Clutch while in your downshift (I still do it, but do you think it is necessary with syncros n' stuff?

Now onto the topic of teaching the heal-toe (or more how to get the right "blip" of the RPMs):
The way I learned to match my revs was to first forget the breaking.
1. (when you know that you are ,say, comming to a stop sign and in third gear) clutch in and bring the shifter to neutral.
2. Engadge the clutch again and bring the shifter to second.
3. With the clutch still in blip the throtle to where you feel the RPMs will be at that speed when you disengage in second gear.
4. Release the clutch.
5. Now start your breaking (your at a stop sign rmember?)

Now, at first you are still going to feel either the engine starting to slow the car down, or the car learching a little. This is due to the RPMs either being too low or too high. But you've got the basic principles down. Now it's all about becoming one with the car and knowing the precise touch of the gas.

Once I started to heal-toe, it only took about two nights of really trying it to get the blip right again. Course, I had been matching my revs for a couple of years.

rXyan, "Happy practicing."

First: hell nope. Synchros will last a long ass time, so its not really "needed" by any means. if yo uwanna show off a bit, or just have a smoother transition while downshifting- then you double clutch.

Now for what your saying.. i dont get it. Was that to double clutch?

To double clutch you should:

Push the clutch in
Go to neutral
Release the clutch
rev match here
Clutch in
Next gear down (if you started in 3rd go to 2nd)
clutch out.

If you do it right you can do it as fast as a normal downshift- itll be smoooother, and as a "perk" youll be nicer on your tranny (not needed though).
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If you dont know what rev matching is il ltry and explain it here.. made up numbers of course- itll be different for any car.

Say your in 3rd going 40 mph at 4000 rpms, and want to go to 2nd

In order to go 2nd at 40 mph your revs need to be 6000 however.

rev matching- is bringing the engines rpms up to the right range- for that speed, and that gear.

Daily driving and knowing how fast your car can go in this gear at this engine speed is the best way to know how high to rev match.

nah, not necessary to double clutch at all.

I know exactly what double clutching is (I said in my post I do it all the time), and I know how to rev-match (I said it in my post). I was simply giveing some advise to some of the beginers on how to learn how to begin to feel the car when learning to rev-match. I just think personally that was a much easier way for me to go, rather than just jumping right into heal-toe. It made the transition into heal-toeing much easier (and probalby much safer).

This post has been edited by driftFC35 on Sep 23 2004, 01:44 PM

Agreed- learn to rev match before you heel-toe.

Rev match is a big part of heel toe so knowing how to do it before hand would help big time

!While still braking- Push in the clutch with your left foot

Now you need to do two things at once, and this is the "complicated" part. Move the stick to the next gear down- and while your doing that twist your right foot so you can press the gas with your heel while leaving your toes on the brakes (you should now have all 3 pedals pushed in).!

you should explain it better so people don't downshift before they rev.

so here are the steps hoppe this helps.

Here is a step-by-step guide on how to heel-and-toe downshift. It will explain how to shift from fourth gear to third gear, though the technique will work for any downshift.

1. Begin braking for the corner with your right foot. The location of the pedals and the size of your foot will dictate where you position your foot on the pedal, but most likely it should be canted a little to the right, closer to the throttle pedal.


2. Push in the clutch with your left foot.


3. This is the hard part. With your right foot still applying pressure to the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the throttle pedal. The pedal design on some cars makes this easier to do than on others. Use the outside of your right foot to blip the throttle. Blipping the throttle means temporarily raising the engine rpms to match the wheel speed. The exact amount of revs needed is dependent on a variety of factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.

4. Move the shifter to third gear.


5. Release the clutch with your left foot.


The trickiest part is getting the correct amount of rpms to match the new gear. If you blip the throttle too much, the engine has too much speed compared to the wheels and is forced to drop down to the wheel speed when you let out the clutch. If you don't blip the throttle enough, the engine rpms are forced to rise up. Either way, you know you didn't do it right as the car will jerk a little.

You'll also know it when you did it right. A proper heel-and-toe downshift is so smooth and so satisfying that, once done correctly, you'll find yourself using the technique all the time. The great thing is that you don't have to be a racecar driver or be on a racetrack to use it. Additionally, using the heel-and-toe downshift technique on the street can improve safety. In certain emergency situations, you might be required to brake heavily and then accelerate quickly. By heel-and-toe downshifting, your car will be in the best gear to achieve maximum acceleration.

and do NOT go around the corner with the clutch pushed in, the engine revs will drop to idle speed.

This post has been edited by Batmanbeyon on Oct 15 2004, 03:55 AM

o man you here also case lol what's up it's drifterX from the rx forums.

Whoa, thats a focus interior, or atleast it looks like my moms.

whassup

not much i like the pic of the cops stopping you lol and i think that is a focus but the heel toe works on any car.

Yea, its the focus.





Me fake heel/toe'ing my parents focus (I have size 13 shoes, so I dont heel/toe, I toe/toe, use left side of my foot to apply brakes, right side of my foot to apply throttle)

Ok looks like i'm gonna have to try this soon, now that I can match rev's.
Tell ya what though, it makes a lot more sense after watching a Best Motoring video.

Dont you just hate big feet like that, I have the same size.
I find that I have to watch the shoes I wear while driving, I even had to remove this little foot rest that was next to the clutch pedel, the first time I drove it with the manual in it as my shoe would catch on it.

I find big feet make it hard to left foot brake aswell, most cars wont allow it as I end up pressing the clutch and brake at the same time.

the order seems weird... im on the clutch before im over the gas...

Its just a pictoral, it doesnt press the gas until after the clutch is pressed, also I have size 13 shoes too, monster feet suck to heel and toe with,lol.