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But she looked 18 of.. | Posted: May 15 2005, 03:52 PM | ||||||||||||||||
I put the F U in FUN Group: Advanced Members Posts: 7,028 Member No.: 1,546 Joined: Mar 30th 2004 Location: bOObies! |
This post has been edited by Nick on May 15 2005, 04:07 PM | ||||||||||||||||
sideways | Posted: May 15 2005, 05:43 PM |
We're the People's Front of Judea! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,123 Member No.: 1,355 Joined: Feb 28th 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | Pin worthy but this should probably be in the Tech section, ill let it get some attention here then pin her up in the tech This post has been edited by sidewaysgts on May 15 2005, 05:43 PM |
WRX DEMON Type R | Posted: May 15 2005, 05:59 PM |
IDW Posts A Freaking LOT Member Group: Banned Posts: 13,371 Member No.: 3,276 Joined: Sep 22nd 2004 Location: Update Profile | im too lazy to read all that. i am looking to completely replace my car's pads and rotors... Suggestion please? |
But she looked 18 of.. | Posted: May 15 2005, 06:24 PM |
I put the F U in FUN Group: Advanced Members Posts: 7,028 Member No.: 1,546 Joined: Mar 30th 2004 Location: bOObies! | I will suggest you quit being lazy and do some research. There is a LOT more to getting the right braket setup then what many people go by which is "bigger is better". Think about exactly what it is about your current brakes that you are not satisfied with and what type of driving will your car be experiencing. FWIW When Brad Bedell's mk2 mr2 won the Sport Compact Car Magazine, Ultimate Street Car Challenge, he was using 94/95turbo mr2 brakes with real good pads and had the lowest stopping distance of any car they had ever tested. A good set of brake pads can do wonders for your car. Also remember, brakes dont stop the car, the tires do. *edit: If your really set on spending money I would suggest going with STi brake setup. They have had a lot of testing done for those cars. You could probably get a good set of 2nd hand brakes from someone with out too much money. This post has been edited by Nick on May 15 2005, 06:36 PM |
Nd4SpdSe | Posted: May 15 2005, 07:26 PM |
FF Enthusiast Group: Advanced Members Posts: 775 Member No.: 2,422 Joined: Jul 31st 2004 Location: Ontario/Québec, Canada | I've always wondered then, why do high-performance cars have them? Lamborghini Murcielago http://www.swisscarsightings.com/lamborghi...elago%20340.jpg Porsche 911 GT3 http://images.automotive.com/cob/factory_a..._GT3_wheels.jpg 2006 Corvette http://www.canadiandriver.com/discus/messages/1490/24053.jpg Enzo Ferrari http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~dixit...03/P1180880.jpg |
sideways | Posted: May 15 2005, 07:36 PM |
We're the People's Front of Judea! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,123 Member No.: 1,355 Joined: Feb 28th 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | To keep it simple because they look good. Nicks post was dead on and used a number of resources, common sense with physics will also support the claims made. They want a car the looks and performs good. As nick touched, hands down the BEST way to increase your braking ability are the pads. If your getting brake fade due to overheating you need to flush out your system and upgrade your fluid. If you want to upgrade your rotors, sloted is the best path to go. Any thing that builds up between the rotor and the pad has a place to go, plus the egde gives the slicing effect should the pads start to glaze. They suppoedly bring the life of your pads down but its minimal, so no worries- small price to pay for the advantage imo. NFS i still suggest you upgrade your fluid as well, its not a sin to mix fluid, and as long as you flush it properly youll do fine. Bleed the rear passenger until your getting the new fluid going through, rear driver, front passenger, then front driver (from the furthest to closest). |
WRX DEMON Type R | Posted: May 15 2005, 08:25 PM |
IDW Posts A Freaking LOT Member Group: Banned Posts: 13,371 Member No.: 3,276 Joined: Sep 22nd 2004 Location: Update Profile | my brake rotors are rusted (what i get for keeping the car locked up for nearly 3 moths) and the car makes noises when i press the brakes. hey, anyone know if Monroe brakes are any good? www.monroebrakes.com I can grab these at Canadian Tire. Rotors and pads. ATM the car is just for transportation. No fancy NAWZ or drifting for me. LOL. |
Cubits | Posted: May 15 2005, 09:10 PM |
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 578 Member No.: 148 Joined: Dec 16th 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia | Slots-b-good. Even the most uber-modern pads will glaze from light pedal use etc, and slots don't really diminish the pad life much. The slots may weaken the disc slightly, but it is quite an insignificant amount in most cases. Drilled are pretty bad. If you don't get hole-cast discs, it will create issues. If you say, got the brakes nice and hot on a mountain road, then hit a puddle, you'd probably warp or even crack the discs (badness). I've seen semi-drilled discs (EBC make em) that are slotted too. Pretty sure the hemispherical dents are only for street appeal, but at least they'll be stronger than fully-drilled discs. They're cast holes. |
Jabberwocky | Posted: May 15 2005, 10:21 PM |
Hero or Zero cornering Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,783 Member No.: 3,476 Joined: Oct 1st 2004 Location: Update Profile | Let me start off by saying that what nick posted was true. Cross drilled rotors are not without their application. It is a viable way to reduce unsprung weight/rotational mass. Usually a cross drilled rotor of the same thickness will have less mass. Thus be a worst heatsink. In some cases, this trade off is worth it, especially is the car already has more than adequate braking. Eg. if the car can lock all 4 wheels at any time. The other way to reduce the rotational mass of the rotor is to make it thinner. Which can make it more prone to warping. Or decrease the size of the rotor. Which also reduces the surface area. Reducing the mass of the rotor usually involves some kind of trade off no matter how you look at it. From what I've seen, high price cars with drilled rotors usually also have massively powerful braking systems. A slight reduction in unsprung weight could very well be worth the tradeoff since the braking system far exceeds the traction of the tires anyways. I think only cheap pads glaze. The good ones aren't suppose to. This post has been edited by Jabberwocky on May 15 2005, 10:28 PM |
Cubits | Posted: May 15 2005, 11:47 PM |
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 578 Member No.: 148 Joined: Dec 16th 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia | If i had more than sufficient braking, i would rather go to a smaller disc than have holes drilled in them. The saving in rotational inertia is worth a buttload more than the saving in unsprung mass. |
Jabberwocky | Posted: May 16 2005, 06:49 PM |
Hero or Zero cornering Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,783 Member No.: 3,476 Joined: Oct 1st 2004 Location: Update Profile | I dont want to get too deeply into it, but going with a smaller diameter usually means a small pad. Also the braking force depends partially on the velocity of the rotor relative to the pad. There are tradeoffs to everything. I'm not saying that crossdrilling is better or worse, but that it is another valid way to lowering rotational mass. This post has been edited by Jabberwocky on May 16 2005, 06:54 PM |
MidnightViper88 | Posted: May 16 2005, 07:18 PM |
Ballistic heartbreak Group: Advanced Members Posts: 16,831 Member No.: 1,034 Joined: Nov 22nd 2003 Location: Richards Majestic, apartment 51 | I like the drag racing cue of parachutes... |
vhsfootball_82 | Posted: May 16 2005, 07:18 PM |
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 643 Member No.: 4,420 Joined: Nov 22nd 2004 Location: Los Angeles,CA near Venice And Santa Monica | so sloted rotors are better than having crossed-drilled rotors------In heavy racing i think......... and Having Bigger rotors and Bigger Brake pads, give u better braking........ crossed-drilled rotors look nice, but are more for street/light racing........ and i dont think having a smaller rotor and smaller pads would help u brake better.......well from what i read in the first post.......Having a bigger rotor surface, will dissipate and dispense heat faster......... you would have less surface for heat to dissipate into the rotors and heat wont dispense as fast as a bigger one would......i think correct me if im wrong, im still trying to figure it out, trying to make it easy for others........got to learn this stuff.....its interesting....... |
Jabberwocky | Posted: May 16 2005, 08:18 PM |
Hero or Zero cornering Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,783 Member No.: 3,476 Joined: Oct 1st 2004 Location: Update Profile | It can't be oversimplified too much. I'd just wanted to point out that crossdrill rotors arent complete junk. I use regular blanks myself because they are cheaper and work just as well. Here's a bunch of factors to consider (generally true): With larger diameter rotors, you have more rotational inertia, which is very bad. With larger diameter rotors, you also generally have more mass to resist fad, good. With larger diameter rotors, you generally have a the pad engage the rotor at a higher velocity, good. With larger diameter rotors, you generally have the air vanes in the rotor working at a higher velocity to dissapate heat, good. With holes/slot drilled in, you generally have less pad to rotor contact, bad. With holes/slot drilled in, you generally have less rotational inertia, good. With holes/slot drilled in, you generally have less mass to resist fade, bad. With holes/slot drilled in, you generally have a weaker rotor prone to cracking, bad. With thinner rotors, you generally have less rotational inertia, good. With thinner rotors, you generally have less mass to resist fade, bad. With thinner rotors, you generally have a weaker rotor prone to warping, bad. That barely scratches the surface. Then there's the tires effect on braking, the caliper design, the brake pad material, the rotor's material, rotor vane design, antisquat and antidive and their effect on weight transfer during braking and more. I know that I'm not that knowledgeable on brakes either. There is probably plenty of stuff that I haven't even mentioned. For those looking for more braking power, I'll say this. The biggest factor IMO is brake pad, the difference between el cheapo autozone pads and something like HP+ is just astounding. This post has been edited by Jabberwocky on May 16 2005, 08:33 PM |
vhsfootball_82 | Posted: May 16 2005, 08:36 PM | ||
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 643 Member No.: 4,420 Joined: Nov 22nd 2004 Location: Los Angeles,CA near Venice And Santa Monica |
very true.......... autozone pads,,,,,,cheapo.......brake pads do make a difference in braking.......big time | ||
TaksPandaHatch | Posted: Sep 10 2005, 12:26 AM |
IDW Regular Member Group: Members Posts: 206 Member No.: 9,533 Joined: Jul 3rd 2005 Location: Update Profile | Alright. The bigger the rotor, the more heat you will disipate, which means less brake fade and not having to turn your rotors because of warpage. Pads do make a difference. I heard some dumb a$$ at Kragen say that ceramic pads will stop squeeking. BS The squeeking is the brake pads moving in the caliper while braking causing a high pitch sound. Ceramic work better at a high heat range and that is why more cars are using them. While Semi Metallic pads work better at a low heat range. Now, cross drilled rotors and slotted rotors. Prectically the same. Cross drilled CAN disipate heat better because the air hits them, but they are taking away metal mass and brake surface area they cannot disipate heat as well because its NOT there. SO you can stop better but you can't either. YOU GAIN and lose. Some Slotted rotors have more pad surface area, some have less,but for the most part, but you have more metal to help disipate the heat than drilled rotors. They also BOTH help remove gasses that build up on the pad surface. Better braking can be achieved by removing the heat, that is the goal of the rotors. You can also increase the rotor size to achieve better braking because you have more brake pad surface area. This post has been edited by TaksPandaHatch on Sep 10 2005, 12:32 AM |
RandRace | Posted: Sep 12 2005, 08:50 AM | ||
IDW Regular Member Group: Members Posts: 201 Member No.: 3,327 Joined: Sep 24th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
Greater surface area. Not neccessarily true in regards to drilled rotors where you're not getting any more surface area, but true in a general sense. Look at the heatsink in your computer. A heavily vaned chunk of aluminum. A solid lump of aluminum would have greater mass and a better ability to absorb heat but far less ability to dissipate that heat since the air flowing over it would pass over a far smaller surface area. I want rotors with a fractal surface. To the pads it would be just like a normal solid disk. To the air though the surface area would be simply immense. Orders of magnitude greater than the flat surface of the rotor. | ||
Pearce | Posted: Sep 19 2005, 08:36 AM |
IDW Full Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Member No.: 12,511 Joined: Sep 18th 2005 Location: Charleston, South Carolina/Marietta, Georgia | someone mighta said this...that's too much to read...but i heard hey warp more easier when they're crossed drilled because they heat up really hot and then cool so quickly...heard it from some street racer...not to sure on the validity of his statement, but it does kinda make since |
MidnightViper88 | Posted: Sep 19 2005, 03:01 PM | ||
Ballistic heartbreak Group: Advanced Members Posts: 16,831 Member No.: 1,034 Joined: Nov 22nd 2003 Location: Richards Majestic, apartment 51 |
It's taken quite a few months for me to ponder over this post, but sports and supercars have more than just large-ass brakes...They also have large-ass pads to go with them, large-ass wheels, and wide/sticky-ass tires, so their braking capabilities are not soley on brakes alone... | ||
InitialE | Posted: Sep 19 2005, 03:17 PM |
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 661 Member No.: 5,057 Joined: Jan 14th 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada | Tire compound/size are more or just as important as brakes when it comes to stopping power, it's the only thing that touches the road surface |
sideways | Posted: Sep 19 2005, 03:25 PM |
We're the People's Front of Judea! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,123 Member No.: 1,355 Joined: Feb 28th 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | Exotics drill their rotors for one reason. It looks nice, how often do u think those owners are REALLY pushing those cars aroudn tracks? (granted some of them actually DO). That and then of course they dont use the same material to make their rotors. |
Wheels84ss | Posted: Sep 21 2005, 06:22 PM | ||
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 607 Member No.: 275 Joined: Feb 25th 2003 Location: Sayreville, NJ |
Unfortunately anti-rice is down so i can't get the link to the actual reason because we did one of these threads a while ago... But it was explained something like this.... The exotics use crossdrilled for astetics and less rotational mass.... Usually exotic setups have more braking capacity then is actually required for the vehicle.... So you can crossdrill the rotors to lighten the load and appeal to the eye without actually decreasing the max braking the car can do... (because the system itself far surpasses what the tires and the suspension will allow) So short answer, it looks cool.... | ||
Nd4SpdSe | Posted: Sep 23 2005, 05:09 AM |
FF Enthusiast Group: Advanced Members Posts: 775 Member No.: 2,422 Joined: Jul 31st 2004 Location: Ontario/Québec, Canada | Well, I've been runing Brembo Cross-Drilled and Slotted with PBR ULX Ceramic pads. I kept the Dot3 Fluid (cause I would need to change all the parts to make sure the system is clean) and want with new steel lines, although I wanted to get stainless steel/teflon braided lines, a miscommunication between me and the guy ordering the lines would have put them beyond my available timeframe, fortunately I found out that they are not DOT approved in Canada, so I don't feel do bad Although I can&!39;t give a blank rotor vs XD/S rotor comparison because of the upgrades in pads, I will say that the combo I'm working with is amazing and hasn't decreased in the several months I've ran them. It's neat, me and a friend were driving about on the highway and were playing around, I was behind him and he saw a cop way up ahead and slammed on the brakes. Now, I don't slam on them cause I know they would lock up, but I was pretty hard on them and not only did it feel like my heart was going to come out of my chest, but it almost felt like my rear wheels wanted to come off the ground. We did some touge "crusing" with the Rx-7 club in spring and they performed great, even when my rear wheels were 2" off the ground (literally, as the Rx-8 driver behind me witnessed). I can't wait until next year I did a tune up and I was checking the rotors, they are acually worn in about 1-2mm, so there's some good friction going on, and I can't see the XD/S rotors being anything but beneficial at this point. I know last time I went on the Rx-7 cruise, that my rotors literally burned blue from overheating, how, my car, although it didn't have as much power, it didn't handle as well either do I was doing more braking, but even this year, it wasn't a walk-in-the-park either, although I'm happy that I kept up with the Turbo FD's no problem And they were really impressed as well. My setup was only a few days old at the time, but next year, I'll push her alot more, I'll show them what my Mx-3 truely can do |
sideways | Posted: Sep 23 2005, 06:36 AM |
We're the People's Front of Judea! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,123 Member No.: 1,355 Joined: Feb 28th 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | Braided lines often dont pass dot approval because they rarely pass the "spin" test (which has jack to do with braking anyways- so who gives a crap) |
Batmanbeyon | Posted: Sep 28 2005, 10:55 PM |
IDW Supremo Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 898 Member No.: 3,218 Joined: Sep 20th 2004 Location: Update Profile | i recomend the SS lines they will make the pedal more stiff and under extreme preasure they wont blow unlike the fatory lines. |
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