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> IDAS4 Techs and Terms (Stage ALPHA for ver1.2), Beginners pls read 1st post
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 18 2007, 08:54 PM


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Every friggin' time somebody new to IDAS4 posts something n00bish, its because they do not use the search button, do not know exactly where to look or are just morons who just wanna annoy people all the time.

So anyway I made this thread to list down the techs and strategies used in IDAS4. So if anybody asks again what a damned "PC" is then we have a thread we can direct them to.

The stuff here is based on the experience I've gained reading about IDAS4 since it hit Japan and the time I have played the game first time it hit my country till now. For credentials, no Im not a PRO but if you want to make sure I at least know what Im talking about click on the link below, go look at any map at OTHER ASIA and find my card name, WOLF. If my time is faster than yours, you do not have the right to argue anything I have posted here...

http://netrank.initiald.sega.com/wr/ranking/index.html



IDAS4 Techs and Terms:

Wheel Lock / Super Understeer - This is the so-called "invisible wall" you encounter during that first time you have played Myogi, tried to make a full turn on that wide, wide road and suddenly your car simply stops turning and you slide directly to the outside wall.

To explain this, I want you to think of every hairpin as having a specific "speed limit". For example the 3rd wide hairpin of Myogi DH has a "speed limit" of 155Kph. It means that if you try to enter the curve at 155KPH or faster BAM! you hit the understeer. It happened because you were going faster than the "speed limit" for that hairpin so the game automatically deducts speed from you and also make your acceleration slower when you exit. This is the so-called "PENALTY". It probably was a way for the programmers to "discipline" us gamers and tell us the game is not that simple that you can just turn the wheel and you're done. Anyway, make an experiment and try to enter the said hairpin above at 150KPH... surprise! No understeer! I dont have to explain why. BUT you do not have to go slow all the time during entry because we have...

Penalty Cancel / PC - More effective if you use your left foot for the brake and right foot for the gas. Done by tapping the brake while lifting the gas a bit then go full throttle again. Very fast movement and your left foot must not linger on the brake.

This is the new "eraser" for the game. The newest exploitation of the game's programming so to speak. The Penalty Cancel got its name because it nullifies the "PENALTY" you recieve when you go too fast on a hairpin (See Wheel Lock). The Penalty Cancel "restarts" your acceleration and kills the lag brought about by getting Wheel Lock or hitting the wall. PC is usually done when your wheels are facing the right way (like in a straight way), when done while turning, the PC wont work properly meaning it will not help your acceleration go up faster like its supposed to do. However done while turning it makes your car a lot more slippery thus also why it was being called the new eraser. It has a different effect than just simply lifting the gas.

"OMFG!!! WHEN DO I DO IT?? IT SUXXORS!!!" : Usually PC is done AFTER a turn. Especially on the occasions you experience wheel lock. Its also a way to turn easier BEFORE a turn but not always.

The Wall Rape - Done by turning extra early on a hairpin to literally ram the inside wall. Done without braking or releasing gas.

Called the wall ram in Ver3, this is really significant in Irohazaka DH and reverse and really just used more often there (some use it for the V-turn in Akagi and first turn of consecutives too). Now Irohazaka is a special map in Ver4. This map is designed in a way that if you ram the inside railing you DO NOT lose speed. Even if your nose hits the outside wall you do not lose speed. Your acceleration will die but that is what PC is for. Now everybody thinks this is a BS way to play the game. Frankly, I dont like it that they reduced iro to this too but its there and its the fastest way to play iro. Either you use it or not. Also take note that even if you PC, you still have engine lag. But this is more apparent in the higher gears. So if you PC properly after a turn in Iro, your accel is jumpstarted and your earlier gears (ie: 2nd, 3rd, 4th) will be as normal.



IDAS4 Turn Strategies:

IDAS4 is a revolutionary game all in the ID series because of clear detachment to the physics we got used to in Ver 1, 2 and 3. Its simply a different game with different techs. Here are some ways for you to do the corners properly.

In-to-in line - this game introduced a new type of system that breaks off from all other IDAS series. Particularly it is much faster for you to come from the inside of the curve rather than feinting from out to in like we got used to. It is guaranteed to give you a better exit speed if done properly (eg: not hitting the inside wall on entry and not hitting the outside wall on exit <--- this doesnt apply to Iro. but only iro because in that map, the game is programmed that you do not experience speed loss when you ram the inside but you will experience speed loss if your BUTT hits the outside wall)

UPDATE: Mid-to-in line - Not all maps have an in-to-in line. There are some turns in some maps where you can come from the middle of the road or even feint out. But still, early turning is the key to IDAS4. Something that everybody has tomaster.

Drift Deceleration - This is a term I invented when I want to explain why I do not brake in IDAS4. The game is programmed in a way that when you turn, you automatically lose speed. People who have been playing long liken it to making sure there is less friction you have the more speed you get. So, when you do make a full turn (or even a half one), the game automatically decelerates your speed for you... meaning if done properly you do not have to brake at all because the game is doing it for you. Now you can still try to brake, but braking will lessen your speed at a very fast rate and you cannot maximize the fastest entry speed you can have for a hairpin.

5-in-4-out - I know what you're thinking. It sounds like the same tech used in Ver3. Actually it is, save for one distinct feature --- you dont brake. Using the Drift Deceleration theory above, the game automatically decelerates speed for you, downshift to your lower gear and smoothly exit (do a PC too to be safe).



Now these are just basic techs I have compiled. There are a few advanced methods I wanna keep to myself for now but also because I want you all to find it out for yourself.

This thread will be updated as soon as new techs appear or a tech will be nerfed or replaced by a better tech.

Oh, and you're welcome.

This post has been edited by DamienWolf on Apr 30 2008, 10:37 PM
CoastalmixX
Posted: Sep 18 2007, 09:43 PM


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Congratulations, you've made a pin-worthy post.
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 18 2007, 09:49 PM


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QUOTE (CoastalmixX @ Today at 1:43 PM)
Congratulations, you've made a pin-worthy post.

Yay! Do I get a cookie? Somebody give me a cookie!!!

Anyway, if any of you have something to contribute just post it in this thread if I think its effective enough to be used I will add it to my post and give you credit too.
MomoChan
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 12:55 AM


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I think I have one, but it's not particularly useful in any place other than Lake Akina and Tsukuba... but then again you can use this fact in other places (save for Irohazaka) to recover speed quicker after using PC or handling gentle turns.

Every experienced ID4 player knows that Drift Deceleration happens more in higher gears (especially 5th/6th) than in lower ones. On top of that, the degree of steering can also dictate this. Back in ID3, you can take gentle corners by semi-sticking to the inside and and turning according to the degree, even taking it to the extremes sometimes, since the speed just keeps going up until you hit a wall.

In ID4, you maintain speed by finding the correct angle to navigate small corners, working through it like a straight line if and at all possible. Otherwise, a slight turn of the wheel will suffice... there's a 50/50 chance depending on the angle (the lesser the degree, the better) that your speed will stay as is, or drop by just about 1~2 points.

Okay so it's more a sub-appendix of the the DD item.. but knowing that is half the battle won, especially with underpowered cars. The less speed you lose, the less time it takes to reach the peak.
Alv
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 01:51 AM


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well said wolf.. hope we dun see any more useless treads.. lolz! anyway u written all this by yourself?
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 19 2007, 04:53 AM


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QUOTE (Alv @ Today at 5:51 PM)
well said wolf.. hope we dun see any more useless treads.. lolz! anyway u written all this by yourself?

Yeah, I did.

@Momo:

Thats probably more of strategies. I call that "vectoring". I use that in tsukuba. If there's a way my car can travel in a straight line but still being inside I'll take it.
ichi-nii
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 07:18 AM


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Great job.. this post can be quite useful.. especially to us inexperienced racers.. happy.gif
MomoChan
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 04:47 PM


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QUOTE (DamienWolf @ Today at 4:53 AM)
Yeah, I did.

@Momo:

Thats probably more of strategies. I call that "vectoring". I use that in tsukuba. If there's a way my car can travel in a straight line but still being inside I'll take it.

So it's more an advanced tactic huh?

I thought as much.

Still, it's one of the ways newbies can cope with DD. If ID3 was more forgiving with unnecessary steering motions, ID4 is not.
am3pkcet
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE (DamienWolf @ Yesterday at 9:54 PM)
Every friggin' time somebody new to IDAS4 posts something n00bish, its because they do not use the search button, do not know exactly where to look or are just morons who just wanna annoy people all the time.

i would just like to point out that the search feature is ALMOST entirely useless, and most threads do not contain any useful explainatory information for newcomers, and many include opinionated misinformation. i was personally wondering myself why there wasnt a main FAQ thread, since there were several in V3 (car rankings, startup, techniques, etc).
Möbius
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:43 PM


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Finally I know what PC is, I was too ashamed to ask.
So much for no "eraser" type stuff in the game . sad.gif
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Fuzz
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:43 PM


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Its still new, nobody can be sure which is best and how all the cars compare with each other
am3pkcet
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:44 PM


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QUOTE (Apex Carver @ Today at 6:43 PM)
Finally I know what PC is, I was too ashamed to ask.
So much for no "eraser" type stuff in the game . sad.gif

actually, i think that its WAY stupider that the game literally wants you to hit walls in iro.
Möbius
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:49 PM


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QUOTE (am3pkcet @ Today at 9:44 PM)
actually, i think that its WAY stupider that the game literally wants you to hit walls in iro.

I've just read that... >_<

I've seen the vids, but thought there was something to it... It's a shame for Iro. sad.gif
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Kenji
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 05:51 PM


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"Walls are made to stop people, instead of going faster"

laugh.gif
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 19 2007, 07:55 PM


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QUOTE (am3pkcet @ Today at 9:40 AM)
i was personally wondering myself why there wasnt a main FAQ thread, since there were several in V3 (car rankings, startup, techniques, etc).

Well the game IS still pretty new and the international community are still understanding it and how it ticks. The japs are keeping their hand close to their chest so we have to do it the hard way and actually play the game to find out.

We do still have a lot of stuff to know like which car really has the fastest startup or the slowest (From what I've experienced its Evo9/GDBF > R34 > S2000 > all other 5 gear cars > Trueno). Hopefully we get more cabs soon so we can truly rape the game.

Oh and first post of the "Ask a question, get an answer" thread gave the meaning of PC. wink2.gif But yeah, I wasnt satisfied with that too. I hope the terms I gave above is described clear enough to the average player as well as the newbie.
?wha?
Posted: Sep 20 2007, 12:35 AM


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Starts also depend on course. EG a MR2 has a start boost on iro, but on most other maps its down on average. ditto EG6 going downhill on myogi. Just my observations...
am3pkcet
Posted: Sep 20 2007, 02:42 AM


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QUOTE (DamienWolf @ Sep 18 2007, 09:54 PM)
In-to-in line - this game introduced a new type of system that breaks off from all other IDAS series. Particularly it is much faster for you to come from the inside of the curve rather than feinting from out to in like we got used to. It is guaranteed to give you a better exit speed if done properly (eg: not hitting the inside wall on entry and not hitting the outside wall on exit <--- this doesnt apply to Iro. but only iro because in that map, the game is programmed that you do not experience speed loss when you ram the inside but you will experience speed loss if your BUTT hits the outside wall)

i'm curious as to the reasoning behind this. because its not only different from past ID games, its different from pretty much every racing game ever made (not to mention it bears absolutely no resembalance to reality or real physics). why does the game mechanic work like this, and why is it faster to do this?
BDDEE@
Posted: Sep 20 2007, 03:02 AM


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in in out = shorter line thru out the corner
its pretty obvious that is bears absolutely no resembalance to reality of real physics, i dont know if you have played it but to get that turning angle on this game all you do is turn the steering wheel, no braking or anything
am3pkcet
Posted: Sep 20 2007, 03:16 AM


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QUOTE (BDDEE@ @ Today at 4:02 AM)
in in out = shorter line thru out the corner
its pretty obvious that is bears absolutely no resembalance to reality of real physics, i dont know if you have played it but to get that turning angle on this game all you do is turn the steering wheel, no braking or anything

i know its a shorter line; there were countless arguments in v3 where sometimes shorter lines actually netted you worse times because it gave you a slower exit speed. and that it was better to carry a wide out in out line to carry more speed through the corner. though, this was of course before tst and all that crap (which i never used).

but wow... full throttle and auto slow down? so playing is EVEN LESS reliant on braking than v3? just gas the whole course and dont worry about the brakes... man.... what a dissapointment. v3 > v4.

i've been playing v4 off and on here in japan, and have beat LOTS up through iro and the first guy on the last course. its kinda fun the way i've been playing (see: real world-ish techniques), but it gets difficult to win some of the harder battles since my instincts tell me not to adhere to these moronic fictional lines and techniques. and to see that the game goes so far out of its way to make hopelessly bad and broken physics (at least in order to go faster) is very disappointing indeed.
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 20 2007, 06:05 AM


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QUOTE (am3pkcet @ Today at 7:16 PM)
i know its a shorter line; there were countless arguments in v3 where sometimes shorter lines actually netted you worse times because it gave you a slower exit speed. and that it was better to carry a wide out in out line to carry more speed through the corner. though, this was of course before tst and all that crap (which i never used).

but wow... full throttle and auto slow down? so playing is EVEN LESS reliant on braking than v3? just gas the whole course and dont worry about the brakes... man.... what a dissapointment. v3 > v4.

i've been playing v4 off and on here in japan, and have beat LOTS up through iro and the first guy on the last course. its kinda fun the way i've been playing (see: real world-ish techniques), but it gets difficult to win some of the harder battles since my instincts tell me not to adhere to these moronic fictional lines and techniques. and to see that the game goes so far out of its way to make hopelessly bad and broken physics (at least in order to go faster) is very disappointing indeed.

Alright, I will give you an example why the in-to-in line is effective in Ver4.

If you read my post above, you'll now know that the wide hairpins have a "wheel lock point". The best example is the very first turn after cp1 of akina.

Ok, lets say you're probably at more or less 150 or 145ish for starters. Now lets say you do not brake and full throttle it all the way. If you do the out-to-in method what happens is that you just hit the speed limit for the curve and your car experiences that bad understeer. You will hit that understeer near the outside (since you did out-to-in) and because you cant steer, you will hit the wall. Plus you run out of space and time to PC because you're on your way to the rail.

Now lets do another scenario. Come from the inside. You turn very early so that your car is almost sideways by the time you hit the apex. Since you went in very fast AGAIN you hit the "wheel lock point".... BUT since you turned very early, you will experience that wheel lock ON THE INSIDE of the curve and not the outside. This gives you enough time to straighten out the car and/or PC to bring your speed up.

Now, nobody is stopping you from doing the braking or "real life techs", blah blah blah. If you're having fun that way nobody is stopping you. I just wanna point out that this is a game and games usually have tricks to it just like when the TST and even the eraser was invented in ver3, it was up to you if you wanted to use it or not but the TST was a way to "cheat" your way of getting the inside line at extremely high speed. Naturally those who want a fast time and compete via the IR wanted to master these things. Heck counterstrike had the bunny hop, the fastswitch, the "E" technique, the jump-crouch and all these are just tools in the game. If you wanna play it like a "real soldier" then hide in a wall and try to keep shooting everybody but almost never get out of cover.

I play Ver4 but I can still play GT4, BG4, and drive in real life properly too. Its up to you and how you adapt.

Honestly man, we've seen a lot of posts like you just did when this game was new. People got their gripes in and mourned the loss of this and that from version 3. But the people moved on. They adapted. They wanna enjoy and play the game. So if you wanna gripe some more start your own thread about how you hate Ver4 (a lot of people already have before) and please dont post stuff like that on a thread like this which focuses on helping those who want to play the game.
Pen^2
Posted: Sep 21 2007, 08:39 AM


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Question: how to take the proper in-in-out on Akina?
Quick gas off-on to create 'eraser' effect, or just full gas full lock?
echizenryoma
Posted: Sep 30 2007, 09:30 AM


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Actually...
I would like to argue abt the in-in-out thing=.=
It seems that Pc'ing when u juz hit wheel lock seems to solve the drifting outside problem=.=
So.... it becomes....
Out-In-In....
DamienWolf
  Posted: Sep 30 2007, 10:13 AM


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QUOTE (echizenryoma @ Today at 1:30 AM)
Actually...
I would like to argue abt the in-in-out thing=.=
It seems that Pc'ing when u juz hit wheel lock seems to solve the drifting outside problem=.=
So.... it becomes....
Out-In-In....

There are Out-in-in lines but majority are In-in-out lines. Watch MSM's lines on his akina vid for an example. An example of a few out-in-in lines and in-in-out lines. Watch the fastest vid available for akina. That jap guy with a 58. A lot of in-in-out lines.
?wha?
Posted: Oct 1 2007, 05:01 AM


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hmm.gif

I seem to have gotten used to the out-in-out principle of V3... is that why my myogi time is so n00bleh? biggrin.gif MR2 is understeer unfriendly and oversteer happimess haha tongue.gif
echizenryoma
Posted: Oct 1 2007, 06:06 AM


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Actually=.=
With the game physics=.=
Anything is possible...
Out-out-out
In-in-in
etc.

For stock cars, in-in-out is one of the best lining.... This line is totally opposite from ID3's lining....
BUT
FOR FT cars, ID3 lines seems to be working=x I seen people braking in akina=.= And loses oni 7km/h on the first corner....

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