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> Initial D Definitive Ver [Multi-Audio][Multi-Subs]
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 13 2018, 12:20 PM


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But you have no plans to share those raws, is that correct?
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 13 2018, 01:07 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 47 minutes, 23 seconds ago)
But you have no plans to share those raws, is that correct?

I never said that. I'm going to share all the raws, but I want to do that in order. In fact, all the raws that we'll using are made by me. This project involves a lot of people, and doing separate things at the same time will be impossible.

I will upload the first episode when it's ready to show you the final result.

I also forgot to say something i consider important: extra stage 2 is an upscale, and I have reasons to think that battle 1 and 2 are SD too. I'll confirm you that in a week,

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 13 2018, 01:13 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 13 2018, 01:35 PM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 28 minutes, 27 seconds ago)
I never said that. I'm going to share all the raws, but I want to do that in order. In fact, all the raws that we'll using are made by me. This project involves a lot of people, and doing separate things at the same time will be impossible.

I will upload the first episode when it's ready to show you the final result.

You are dodging the question by trying to confuse the issue. You say "I'm going to share all the raws," but then immediately say "...doing separate things at the same time will be impossible," and "...when it's ready to show you the final result."

The raw is not a final result of a project such as yours. You take the bluray, you run the audio through your favorite audio encoder, you run the video through an AVIsynth script, and you encode using your favorite encoding settings to create a video with audio that's compressed from the original bluray. Or you can be super lazy and just mux the M2TS into MKV or heck, just share the M2TS. That's a raw.

The raw, at most, would require processing only to subjectively 'improve' video quality. But by no means would the raw alone require the assistance of others on a team, and in fact would be the very first step in any sort of project such as this related to an audio and subtitle distribution. Without the basic raw from the bluray, how do you plan to synchronize additional audio tracks from completely different forms of media? How do you plan to synchronize and edit subtitles?

The raw is the first step and completely separate from everything else you and your team are doing.

So, I will ask you again directly. When you say 'final result', are you referring to a raw--an MKV or MP4 with only the video stream and Japanese audio stream--or are you referring to the first episode of your "Definitive Version" project which includes multiple audio and subtitle streams?
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 13 2018, 02:34 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 45 minutes, 21 seconds ago)
You are dodging the question by trying to confuse the issue. You say "I'm going to share all the raws," but then immediately say "...doing separate things at the same time will be impossible," and "...when it's ready to show you the final result."

The raw is not a final result of a project such as yours. You take the bluray, you run the audio through your favorite audio encoder, you run the video through an AVIsynth script, and you encode using your favorite encoding settings to create a video with audio that's compressed from the original bluray. Or you can be super lazy and just mux the M2TS into MKV or heck, just share the M2TS. That's a raw.

The raw, at most, would require processing only to subjectively 'improve' video quality. But by no means would the raw alone require the assistance of others on a team, and in fact would be the very first step in any sort of project such as this related to an audio and subtitle distribution. Without the basic raw from the bluray, how do you plan to synchronize additional audio tracks from completely different forms of media? How do you plan to synchronize and edit subtitles?

The raw is the first step and completely separate from everything else you and your team are doing.

So, I will ask you again directly. When you say 'final result', are you referring to a raw--an MKV or MP4 with only the video stream and Japanese audio stream--or are you referring to the first episode of your "Definitive Version" project which includes multiple audio and subtitle streams?

I'm going to try to answer all your questions at once xD.

First of all, I'm not using the BD for first and second stage, they're just a blurry upscale as you know. That's why I'll be using R2J DVD (which cannot be found on internet, we bought them). I just took the best video source out there and use them for the project.
About the RAW, it will be an encode of the R2J DVD, and it's not going to have any type of filters (we want to preserve all the details). I simply deinterlace and edit them to last like the BD (so I don't have to touch the lossless audios and if someone wants to make a BDrip version he can simply replace the video), having a final framerate of 29.97. The big problem of first stage is that the cell animation is 23.976 and the CGI is 29.976, which means the show has ghostingon the "anime" scenes (and it's nearly impossible to fix it if you don't go frame by frame).

About the subtitles, we're using the english subs to translate into other languages (as polish for example). These ones were retimed to fit the BD so it is not a problem. This also applies for the rest of the subs.

Now I'll talk about the audios. For the DTSHD-MA audios (french and japanese) I use the arcsoft decoder to extract the entire dtshdma track. As for the PCM i'm also using flac. In case of the other audios (that are ac3 5.1 384, 448 or ac3 2.0 224, 192... or any other format) I'll encode them into ac3 with the source bitrate to avoid loosing quality when reencoding (the minimum bitrate I'll use will be 192 to avoid loosing qiality as I said).

Why do I reencode the audios? Because as you know, the TVRips and DVD have a different timing than the BD: the delay between the opening and part 1 is different, eyecatches last longer, and more of the same on the ending and the previews.

Finally, when I say final result I mean the raw with ALL the audios and ALL the subs (including the forced ones with karaokes and more things). If I was talking about only japanese I would have uploaded nearly all the season :v (and it doesn't make sense to upload that in a multi audios and subs project...)

Right now this is what the release will have (we're always talking about first stage):
Audios:
-Japanese (Original Sound Files, FLAC 2.0)
-Japanese (New sound files, FLAC 5.1)
-English (Funimation, AC3 5.1 448kbps)
-English (Tokyopop, AC3 5.1 384kbps)
-French (FLAC 2.0)
-Spanish (AC3 2.0 224kbps)
-Latinamerican spanish (AC3 1.0 192kbps [the original audio was mono])
-Brazilian portuguese (AC3 1.0 192kbps [the original audio was mono])
-Mandarin (Beijing, AC3 2.0 192kbps)
-Cantonese (AC3 2.0 192kbps)

Subtitles (ASS):
-English (Full and Forced)
-French (Full and Forced)
-Spanish (Full and Forced)
-Latinamerican Spanish (Forced only)
-Catalan (Full only)
-Brazilian portuguese (Full and Forced)
-Polish (Full only)
As I said, all the subtitle tracks will have karaokes included.

It is possible that new tracks will be added (we're going to buy the Italian DVD, and we need people to help us with traditional chinese subs and french subs)

As you can see I'm not a novice, I've been in this world for a long time and I know a lot about audio and video editing. I know what to do. Do you want to know anything else?

Even so, the most important thing is that this project is mora alive than ever.

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 13 2018, 02:37 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 14 2018, 11:14 AM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ Yesterday, 2:34 PM)
Finally, when I say final result I mean the raw with ALL the audios and ALL the subs

That's not a raw, which proves I was right all along.

Still waiting on Coyote26. cool.gif
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 14 2018, 11:53 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 38 minutes, 57 seconds ago)
That's not a raw, which proves I was right all along.

Still waiting on Coyote26. cool.gif

Yes it is a raw, a raw with a few subs and audios included. If you want a real raw remove all those audios and subs (except the japanese track) and you're good to go.

BTW, I don't know why you're posting here if what you want is a raw...

And Coyote's not going to upload third stage for now, he'll upload his version here after I upload mine. I hope you understand it.

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 12:16 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 14 2018, 05:23 PM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 5 hours, 24 minutes ago)
Yes it is a raw, a raw with a few subs and audios included.

Again, that is not a raw. I refer you to any Anime sharing site on the planet--a raw is the raw video with Japanese audio and no subtitles or alternative-language audio tracks. If it contains subs, or includes non-Japanese audio tracks, it's not a fucking raw. There's no discussion to be had here, you're just plain wrong.

QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 5 hours, 24 minutes ago)
BTW, I don't know why you're posting here if what you want is a raw...

Oh, so now you admit that what you're releasing is not a raw, good. I'm posting here about it because Coyote26 said that the raw for Third Stage's bluray is being shared on a private French tracker, which he clearly has acquired but that I have no access to. So, being interested, I was asking for a non-private method to acquire the same content.

QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 5 hours, 24 minutes ago)
And Coyote's not going to upload third stage for now, he'll upload his version here after I upload mine. I hope you understand it.

To quote Piccolo, now how you just gon' speak for him?
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 12:29 AM


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QUOTE
If you want a real raw remove all those audios and subs (except the japanese track) and you're good to go.


I see that you haven't read the entire message...

QUOTE
on tracker private bluray flacHD french. rolleyes.gif


In fact Coyote never said he had a raw (because he only mentioned the french audio), so you're searching someting that's not on internet...

From the very beginning you never showed support to the project, which means you're only here to get your raws. You're not going to find them here. it's not worth getting angry sor something like this. I don't want to argue with you anymore and I hope you take care of your language.

Thank you very much.

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 12:31 AM
Tessou
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 12:30 AM


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I've been watching this thread for a while. Dragster, you need to stop acting like an asshole and playing defensively. You're wrong. I don't care about how long you've been alive (not a credential) nor your ability to withhold information (not a skill).

Carrot and stick diplomacy doesn't work here. Play nice or go shill your ill gotten product elsewhere.
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 12:33 AM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ 3 minutes, 14 seconds ago)
I've been watching this thread for a while. Dragster, you need to stop acting like an asshole and playing defensively. You're wrong. I don't care about how long you've been alive (not a credential) nor your ability to withhold information (not a skill).

Carrot and stick diplomacy doesn't work here. Play nice or go shill your ill gotten product elsewhere.

First of all I think I do not deserve to be insulted. I told you all you wanted to know about the release and I'm not hiding any info about it. What else do you want?

I never used that carrot and stick diplomacy because I never posted screenshots telling that I'm not going to upload anything. This project involves a lot of people and takes a lot of time and we want to post the entire show by order. I don't do that to make people angry, you have to understand that it is very difficult to coordinate people to do big projects like this. I simply told what we have and what we want to do. I think it is very clear.

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 12:41 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 01:32 AM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 50 minutes, 12 seconds ago)
I see that you haven't read the entire message...

Oh, I read it all right. The thing is, as I've already said once before, the 'raw' is the first step in any translation project. Its existence does not require the existence of any other component, and thus can be--and usually is--released before any translations are. As I can understand Japanese just fine and am curious as to the quality of the bluray transfer, that's why I was interested in what Coyote26 was posting. Waiting for your Definitive Version just to get my hands on a glimpse of what's on the bluray is a waste of my time.

For reference, the bluray transfer is not bad. I imagine the chromatic abberations were actually present in the original 35mm master, so they did the best they could with what they had.

user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 1920 x 1080. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 50 minutes, 12 seconds ago)
In fact Coyote never said he had a raw (because he only mentioned the french audio), so you're searching someting that's not on internet...

You're actually right about this bit, even if you're not quite phrasing it correctly. Coyote26 also just 'happens' to be the same person who uploaded the rip in the first place to that tracker, and only bothered to include the French audio.

QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 50 minutes, 12 seconds ago)
From the very beginning you never showed support to the project, which means you're only here to get your raws. You're not going to find them here. it's not worth getting angry sor something like this. I don't want to argue with you anymore and I hope you take care of your language.

What, because I (correctly) pointed out that PayPal isn't in the business of supporting illegal activity? Look, I really do have respect for what you're trying to do. It's the single most ambitious Initial D project I have ever seen, laughably so. If it were me, I wouldn't go nearly as far as you're planning, so I can't even imagine the work that would have to go into completing it. I truly hope that you manage to succeed in all of your goals and that every Initial D fan gets to partake in the fruits of your endeavours. Heck, I told someone else I'd share an updated Battle Stage script with them, and I have no problem sharing that same script with you for your own project.

That all being said, I do have a problem with you personally now, because frankly I'm not a fan of your attitude ever since I made an attempt to interact with Coyote26. There was no need for you to behave the way you did, and your continued belligerence shows that this is no one-off situation. Hopefully you can get that under control, or at the very least not allow that personality trait to affect your progress. I wouldn't worry about any 'beef' between us lasting much longer, however. In fact, I would wager that within the next few hours we'll just go back to ignoring one another until your project bears fruit. cool.gif

QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 50 minutes, 12 seconds ago)
Thank you very much.

You are quite welcome.
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alex1287
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 01:40 AM


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I am with you DragsterPS and I keep my fingers crossed for the project. I will wait, I am not in a hurry smile.gif

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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 01:45 AM


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Hahahahaha. Well, sorry if I had a defensive or an asshole attitude, it was not my intention at all. If you want to help us never hesitate to contact me.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 12 minutes, 11 seconds ago)
Heck, I told someone else I'd share an updated Battle Stage script with them, and I have no problem sharing that same script with you for your own project.


As you know we're still doing First Stage now laugh2.gif. Before battle, we still have to do first, second, extra and third. What I'd like to know is what your script is about (I didn't heard anything about it).

In a few hours I'll say that I'll have all the avs of first stage done. I'll soon upload the raw (only audio and 2 japanese tracks xD) of the first episode so you could see the result (hich is based on R2J DVD).

Thank you very much for your support, I really appreciate it. If you want to help us never hesitate to contact me!

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 01:47 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 02:53 AM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ 1 hour, 8 minutes ago)
What I'd like to know is what your script is about (I didn't heard anything about it).

I'm the one who subbed the first Battle Stage. However, it was my first translation project, and it was over a decade ago. I've learned a lot since then, and there are plenty of places in the original translation that could use improvement. I'd always intended to go back and redo it with better source material, but since people are already trying to do that, I figure I can just redo the translation and let someone else handle the encode.
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 02:58 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 4 minutes, 56 seconds ago)
I'm the one who subbed the first Battle Stage. However, it was my first translation project, and it was over a decade ago. I've learned a lot since then, and there are plenty of places in the original translation that could use improvement. I'd always intended to go back and redo it with better source material, but since people are already trying to do that, I figure I can just redo the translation and let someone else handle the encode.

Ok then. I'll contact you when we go to do Battle Stage.

Thank you!
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Posted: Apr 15 2018, 06:51 AM


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Sounds pretty awesome!

This post has been edited by fujito10 on Apr 15 2018, 06:54 AM
DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 12:30 PM


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Here you have the raw of the first episode of first stage: Link

I haven't included the japanese track with the original sound files because I thought that I have it in flac but in fact that audio was the new version downmixed to 2.0 (it came from the french bd). This means that the version with the original sound files will be ac3 192 or 224kbps (old french dvds have that bitrate but I still have to check if they're better than the R2J DVD audio which is 192kbps).

Although they're the best raws available out there they have a big problem: ghosting. The CGI was done in 29.97 and the cell animation was done in 23.976. The cell animation was "converted" to 29.97 fps to have the same fps as the CGI, leading to ghosting.

Is it possible to remove that? Well, nothing is impossible. The problem is that to remove it you would have to go frame by frame fixing every scene. I might do that after finishing final stage laugh2.gif (and if I still have time).

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 12:31 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 01:05 PM


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The 'ghosting' effect is pretty synonymous with First Stage, though I never got to the bottom of whether it was an artifact on the original master or an artifact of very early DVD transfers. Which actually brings me to my question.

Why are you using the R2J DVDs? You say you have the actual physical discs for Pit 1, so I must say I'm curious as to why the DVD looks better. I do remember that a while back I (and probably others) posted reviews of the "Bluray" rips of First and Second Stage, but there's a very good chance that those rips were fake. I know for a fact (thanks to comparisons from the 'HD Remaster' TV broadcast M2TS streams) that the "bluray" rips of Fourth Stage floating around the internet are completely fake, after all. I also know thanks to comparing with the French BD that the "bluray" rip of Third Stage that was floating around for a while is also fake. So it stands to reason that all the "bluray" rips for Initial D on peer-to-peer are fakes.

If you have comparison shots with the actual physical BDs I would be eager to see them. happy.gif
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Tessou
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 02:18 PM


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QUOTE (DragsterPS @ Today, 4:33 AM)
First of all I think I do not deserve to be insulted. I told you all you wanted to know about the release and I'm not hiding any info about it. What else do you want?

I never used that carrot and stick diplomacy because I never posted screenshots telling that I'm not going to upload anything. This project involves a lot of people and takes a lot of time and we want to post the entire show by order. I don't do that to make people angry, you have to understand that it is very difficult to coordinate people to do big projects like this. I simply told what we have and what we want to do. I think it is very clear.

You spent quite a few posts confusing N1's intentions and what he was asking for, then complained when he was reasonably upset with your "obviously you're just a leech and looking for raws" attitude you gave him for asking legitimate questions.

After all this talk of collaboration, you seem quite willing to shut people out on impulse if they ask "the wrong thing". I don't jive with that. Stop getting so defensive over people questioning your work. You wanted to make it public, so maybe prepare more diligently to answer the usual questions that will come from interested parties instead of acting like everybody has a vendetta against you.

Remember that you are a guest here.
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 03:03 PM


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Tessou, I'm going to say it again, I should not have taken this attitude and I apologize for that. It was my misunderstood from the very beggining and now all this discussion is solved.

QUOTE
The 'ghosting' effect is pretty synonymous with First Stage, though I never got to the bottom of whether it was an artifact on the original master or an artifact of very early DVD transfers. Which actually brings me to my question.


The ghosting is because of converting the cell animation from 23.976 to 29.97, and it is also present on BD (although they filtered it to remove some ghosting)

QUOTE
Why are you using the R2J DVDs? You say you have the actual physical discs for Pit 1, so I must say I'm curious as to why the DVD looks better. I do remember that a while back I (and probably others) posted reviews of the "Bluray" rips of First and Second Stage, but there's a very good chance that those rips were fake. I know for a fact (thanks to comparisons from the 'HD Remaster' TV broadcast M2TS streams) that the "bluray" rips of Fourth Stage floating around the internet are completely fake, after all. I also know thanks to comparing with the French BD that the "bluray" rip of Third Stage that was floating around for a while is also fake. So it stands to reason that all the "bluray" rips for Initial D on peer-to-peer are fakes.


In fact I do not have physical copies but I do have the BDMVs of that (I confirmed with someone who has a physical copy that these are not fake and that they also have a real DTSHD audio), and I think what you saw in the past was the BDRip, a pretty bad upscale. What I can also say is that the original seasons from the bluray differ a little bit from the "HD Remaster".

QUOTE
If you have comparison shots with the actual physical BDs I would be eager to see them. happy.gif


Here you have some comparisons between my raw and the m2ts from Pit.1 BD: Picture comparison
For a better comparison, original images can be found here: Link

If you take a look at the CGI screenshot, look how blurry the AE86 is and compare the details of the background forest. The BD is also cropped if you compare it with the DVD. French BD is more or less the same, the only difference is that the french bd is 23.976 and pit.1 is 29.97 (like the R2J DVD).
If you want some comparison between the HD Remaster from Pit.3 and First/Second episodes from Pit.1 I'll post them tomorrow.

This post has been edited by DragsterPS on Apr 15 2018, 03:04 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 15 2018, 03:36 PM


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Sweet, thank you for the comparisons! That's really too bad that the BD rips of First and Second Stage appear to be nothing more than shitty upscales. I can see why the Japanese were pissed off about it. Thankfully the Third Stage transfer is much better, and I can only assume from watching the TV broadcast of Fourth Stage that it too got a decent transfer.

EDIT: And yet, after nabbing Coyote's release of the first episode of Fourth Stage, I'm confused. It looks at first glance to be an upscale of the SD source material rather than a true remaster. Yes, there are certainly places that are much clearer and sharper than I recall, but the overall fuzziness--not to mention the still-horrible interlacing artifacts in the opening--makes me shake my head.

If that really is straight from the bluray...I don't even know what to think. Could it really be that the only blurays worth having are Third Stage, Fifth Stage and Final Stage?

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Apr 16 2018, 06:09 PM
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coyote26
Posted: Apr 20 2018, 09:41 AM


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release to premium preview act 22 BDRIP.

https://yggtorrent.is/torrent/filmvideo/ani...-flac5-1-coyote
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 20 2018, 04:39 PM


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It's just too bad the blurays for First Stage look so bad. crying2.gif
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DragsterPS
Posted: Apr 21 2018, 12:25 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 7 hours, 45 minutes ago)
It's just too bad the blurays for First Stage look so bad. crying2.gif

Expect the same for second stage: Screenshots
magiblot
Posted: Apr 21 2018, 03:59 AM


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Hello DragsterPS. I use AviSynth very often. If you are Ok with it, I would like to take a look at the VOB file of the first episode of the First Stage of the R2J source you are using. I want to compare the encoding quality and the interlacing with other DVD releases (Tokyopop, Funimation) I have seen before.

Thanks.

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