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> Quick Question about MR2
sideways
Posted: Apr 21 2013, 03:32 AM


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QUOTE (Vortrex @ 39 minutes, 58 seconds ago)
Nice nice, i should follow this thread closely!
Because my first car is going to be a AW11 probably.
Since we are talking about MR2, it that a good idea: a AW11 as first car???

If you can be bothered feel free to shoot me a PM
Banken
Posted: Apr 21 2013, 04:08 AM


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Is it a good idea to daily a car over 25 years ago as your first car? No, it is not. Absolutely positively not. Buy a 10 year-old Civic or Miata.

Unless you like rebuilding cars from the ground up.

Even then, you will feel very guilty putting tens of thousands of miles a year on a classic car.
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Posted: Apr 21 2013, 04:53 AM


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Why not, late 80's to mid 90's was the age when the most reliable cars were made, especially the japanese ones. Old Toyota, make sure it's not rotten, drives fine and the engine sounds okay. Other than that, it should be great first car. If you're a bit DIY'er, then an old Toyota is even greater car, cheap parts and easy to work with.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 21 2013, 05:25 AM


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QUOTE (Banken @ 1 hour, 16 minutes ago)
Is it a good idea to daily a car over 25 years ago as your first car? No, it is not. Absolutely positively not. Buy a 10 year-old Civic or Miata.

Unless you like rebuilding cars from the ground up.

Even then, you will feel very guilty putting tens of thousands of miles a year on a classic car.

wat

25 years is just 1988... my first car was a '90 Subaru and it was an absolute breeze to drive and own. Well, of course until you got into trouble and ended up doing a 180 into a ditch but that's a different story altogether. Not really the car's fault. whistling.gif

Nowadays econoboxes from that era are cheap and easy to get (with the exception being the tofu tax of course) and I absolutely would recommend them as first cars. Not to mention, why would someone who hasn't even driven a car before feel guilty about putting tens of thousands of miles on an 80s econobox or even, in this case, a first-gen MR2?

I've never felt guilty about putting miles on any of my 70s cars...and they were far from being my first. I doubt someone who's only just learning to drive would know enough to care. wink2.gif
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MetalMan777
Posted: Apr 21 2013, 08:04 AM


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QUOTE (Banken @ 3 hours, 55 minutes ago)
Is it a good idea to daily a car over 25 years ago as your first car? No, it is not. Absolutely positively not. Buy a 10 year-old Civic or Miata.

Unless you like rebuilding cars from the ground up.

Even then, you will feel very guilty putting tens of thousands of miles a year on a classic car.

I actually support the idea of getting a 25 year old car for a first car. Yeah, it'll require some work, but if you're cool enough to do it yourself, it'll teach you a hell of a lot in a hurry. I currently daily an '85, and have done so for a while. Works fine, and it's nicer to drive than a 10 year old Civic.
Seri
  Posted: Apr 21 2013, 01:44 PM


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QUOTE (Cactus @ 5 hours, 39 minutes ago)
I actually support the idea of getting a 25 year old car for a first car. Yeah, it'll require some work, but if you're cool enough to do it yourself, it'll teach you a hell of a lot in a hurry. I currently daily an '85, and have done so for a while. Works fine, and it's nicer to drive than a 10 year old Civic.

I daily my mother's old 1990 Accord EX sedan, not the best thing in the world, but... It does the job.

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Banken
Posted: Apr 21 2013, 03:35 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 5:25 AM)
wat

25 years is just 1988... my first car was a '90 Subaru and it was an absolute breeze to drive and own. Well, of course until you got into trouble and ended up doing a 180 into a ditch but that's a different story altogether. Not really the car's fault. whistling.gif

Nowadays econoboxes from that era are cheap and easy to get (with the exception being the tofu tax of course) and I absolutely would recommend them as first cars. Not to mention, why would someone who hasn't even driven a car before feel guilty about putting tens of thousands of miles on an 80s econobox or even, in this case, a first-gen MR2?

I've never felt guilty about putting miles on any of my 70s cars...and they were far from being my first. I doubt someone who's only just learning to drive would know enough to care. wink2.gif

I said it was a bad idea, I didn't say it wasn't fun.

The problem isn't the fact that the cars were from the 80s, but that they're now very, very old and require a lot of work to get back to a level of performance you can call sportscarish.

Owning and driving an 80's econobox was fine... in the early 2000s. Now those cars are 10 years older. A new driver would be better served by something in the 10-15 year old range, with airbags and crumple zones, and no silly-ass automatic seatbelts.

A sports car from the 80s (in 2013) will not be reliable. It is a great way to learn maintenance but it is not a good daily driver. And this is coming from someone who's first daily driver is an FC that now has 170,000 miles. Which is the sports car equivalent of being about 90. The money I spent on maintenance could have bought me a newer car that would have been safer, faster and handled better on account of not being so worn out. If you want an old car to behave like it did when it was new (which it never will because of metal fatigue), you've gotta spend thousands of dollars and more importantly, hundreds of hours restoring it from the ground up.

But the fact of the matter is that a new driver is better served by a car that won't kill them, and has room for things like friends, bicycles, and suitcases. An MR2 is not either one of those things. But it does make a great second car...

This post has been edited by Banken on Apr 21 2013, 03:37 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 12:19 AM


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QUOTE (Banken @ 8 hours, 43 minutes ago)
But the fact of the matter is that a new driver is better served by a car that won't kill them, and has room for things like friends, bicycles, and suitcases. An MR2 is not either one of those things. But it does make a great second car...

Sounds like it's time to get a Maverick with 3000 pounds of American steel that seats six and can actually hold stuff in the trunk! troll.gif
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Banken
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 12:21 AM


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Actually I was thinking more like a turbo Legacy wagon...
Vortrex
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 05:21 AM


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Okay, there are some mixed feelings here about a old car.
But, i said: a AW11. Not old Subaru's or old Honda's.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 07:04 AM


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QUOTE (Vortrex @ 1 hour, 43 minutes ago)
Okay, there are some mixed feelings here about a old car.
But, i said: a AW11. Not old Subaru's or old Honda's.

If you can find one that's in great shape that you have to do minimal work to (especially minimal ENGINE work) then sure why not. Just keep in mind that what I said earlier applies: when you have to pull an engine on an MR2 you don't pull the engine--you pull the car. They're not friendly to work on.

There are plenty of old cars that are much easier and much cheaper to work on. An AW11 would be an investment and you'd have to love it for it to be worth it. I think Tessou could explain that a lot better than I could since he replaced his with a Tiburon.
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Tessou
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 10:36 AM


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The engine isn't actually too much of a bear to work on even considering the restricting dimensions of the engine bay.

The transmission, however, is a fucking massive pain in the ass no matter what. You have to pull a lot of shit out to get to it.

I would never, EVER, recommend it (an AW11) as a first car or an "only" car for anybody, because it's at least 23 years old and they all will have some sign of it, even if kept in amazing condition. You will find rust somewhere, guaranteed (rear wheelwells almost always, inside the trunk usually). The side skirt along the front fenders is notorious for collecting leaves and other garbage that gets sucked under the car and you will hate digging them out every week. The electrical system was made by a first grader and it shows. You are going to have lights go out constantly, or idiot lights flipping on and off for no reason (enjoy figuring them out with a code reader). Tires, particularly the rears, burn out quickly even with conservative driving.

The voltmeter and oil pressure gauges are basically there to be ignored. Don't worry if it reads low, because the oil sender is a lying bastard, and your distributor is coded to break every 3,000 miles (read: get it checked out any time you take it to a shop). The alternator is one of the few things that never ever breaks in these cars, so forget about the voltmeter. It will go nuts every time you play with any switch in the car, but it's just useless information. If the meter is even working, you're more than good to go.

Parts are deceptively expensive for a car with a Corolla engine, so beware. I still have nightmares about prices for transmission linkage cables. Even spare keys can run you up quite a bit.

I say most of this in seriousness. Have a good, solid reliable daily driver first. Then you can think about having a sports car on the side. You may think having a little rocket car is cool for a while (I sure did), but you will soon realize that it's a very difficult car to live with for normal everyday things. Carrying anything is a chore because there's no space. The trunks are very small and can't hold anything bigger than a suitcase each. There's no cupholder anywhere and aftermarket varieties have a fun time fitting in the unique architecture of the interior (a lot of hard angles), so think before getting food at the drive thru. If the weather is getting bad, you will have to change your driving habits in order to cope. If the rear tires get wet, you'll need to baby the throttle.

Also remember, old engines do not have the originally posted horsepower or EPA figures anymore. A 1989 NA in good condition might have 100hp, and at that age it will be gobbling fuel up pretty quick (my 87 was getting an average of 16mpg). With a tiny 11 gallon fuel tank, you will be at the pumps a lot if your daily driving is anything more than short trips.

The MR2 was not designed to be the primary car for anybody from the start. It's a sports car that comes with sports car problems. You get the fun of the pure driving feel, but you have to take some negatives to get there. Lack of comfort, always-demanding transmission and throttle, and a thirsty engine are not things you should want in your daily driver.
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HashiriyaR32
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 11:20 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 4:19 AM)
Sounds like it's time to get a Maverick with 3000 pounds of American steel that seats six and can actually hold stuff in the trunk! troll.gif

And I thought that something that looked like this

user posted image

Would weigh a lot more than that.
Seri
  Posted: Apr 22 2013, 11:58 AM


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So wait. How did we get from supercharging to daily?

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Tessou
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 12:48 PM


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QUOTE (KyoukoFD3S @ 50 minutes, 42 seconds ago)
So wait. How did we get from supercharging to daily?

Because Vortrex asked. Simple. rolleyes.gif
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Vortrex
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 01:39 PM


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Sorry for getting off-topic. sweatingbullets.gif

Thank for the nice guide about the AW11 Tessou.
I knew there will be a lot of bad things about that car.
But here in Holland, things are a bit different than in USA.

Every two year we have a MOT Test (APK) that is strictly monitored and so quality of old car and new cars is way higher then america. All cars need to attend it but not if the car is more than 30 years old.

And once in two months i see a perfect AW11 for just 1200/1300 dollars (1000 euros) on our Dutch Ebay (markplaats).
And that's really really cheap here in Holland for such a car.
AE86 are super rare and cost more than 5000 dollars.
Older Impreza WRX has a minimum of 8.000/9.000 dollars. Evo's are... Toooo much. sad.gif (from 7 and higher)
And so on. (I hate Honda's tongue.gif, NO but i never would buy a FF car.... I love FR and 4WD)

AW11, is just right and i don't want a perfect car as first car because that would be boring. biggrin.gif




offtopic.gif We should go back to the point were Kyouko started. I will make a other thread next week about this.

So, i read your fan-fiction, it was pretty sweet. happy.gif And a supercharger on a SW20. Anything is possible in a fan-fiction! So if it is bad or not.
You can make it look awesome.

This post has been edited by Vortrex on Apr 22 2013, 01:42 PM
Tessou
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 01:48 PM


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QUOTE (Vortrex @ 9 minutes, 9 seconds ago)
...i never would buy a FF car.... I love FR and 4WD

There's nothing wrong with FFs. I own one now and it's quite fun. biggrin.gif

Then again, I live in the midwest, where FRs are sort of a seasonal breed considering the usual blizzards and icy roads for four months every year. I traded up simply because the MR2 was increasingly becoming useless as the winter months drudged on. I bought the Tiburon and suddenly I could drive through anything. There was a massive blizzard the day after I bought it, and I was able to carve through the horrid road conditions without a problem. The MR would never have been able to do that. I would have ended up spun around in the ditch before I even got to the highway, the conditions were so bad.
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Seri
  Posted: Apr 22 2013, 01:51 PM


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Well, I hope to get something slightly newer than my '90 Accord...

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Tygur
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 02:28 PM


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I say go for it. My first car was a mid-80s Toyota with a 2SE on its last legs. Sure it was newer back then but it still had 230k miles and most of it was ruined. It taught me a lot. If you just keep up on maintenance and have enough to refresh the important bits, find one in good condition and don't drive it like an idiot, you should be good. If you get a bad example, don't replace the safety bits, like brake hoses and suck, and flog it like a madman, you'll be in trouble. FYI I took mine to the junkyard after a couple years, but not because it was broken, it was because I got another car and nobody wanted it. Toyota engines of that era are sturdy as hell.
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Posted: Apr 22 2013, 03:34 PM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ 4 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Don't worry if it reads low, because the oil sender is a lying bastard

And it may also spontaneously spray fuel all over the engine bay. awesome.gif
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 03:38 PM


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QUOTE (Spaz @ 4 minutes, 15 seconds ago)
And it may also spontaneously spray fuel all over the engine bay. awesome.gif

You bastard, I choked on my frappe. laugh2.gif

At least it's not an American oil sender, which will fail while you're doing 70 on the freeway and erroneously alert you to a complete lack of oil. You then discover that the brand new oil sender you just installed that week has failed, and that you will likely go through several new oil senders before finding one that won't spontaneously fail for no reason. derp.gif In the mean time you disconnect the oil sender wire and pray you don't actually run out of oil. awesome.gif

EDIT:

QUOTE (HashiriyaR32)
And I thought that something that looked like this...Would weigh a lot more than that.

Right? In fact it's half a ton lighter than my SVX was. ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Apr 22 2013, 03:46 PM
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sideways
Posted: Apr 23 2013, 01:53 AM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ Yesterday, 11:36 AM)
Also remember, old engines do not have the originally posted horsepower or EPA figures anymore. A 1989 NA in good condition might have 100hp, and at that age it will be gobbling fuel up pretty quick (my 87 was getting an average of 16mpg). With a tiny 11 gallon fuel tank, you will be at the pumps a lot if your daily driving is anything more than short trips.

Thats just down right shocking. Ive known a handfull of aw11 owners over my years, none have had anything reported like that. Most were getting mid-upper 20s, some as high as the low 30s. None where anything id call special, most belong to broke mofos who could barely afford gas- let alone upkeeping their cars "properly". High miles, original engines, etc.
Tessou
Posted: Apr 23 2013, 04:21 AM


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Were they driving it in your area where it's typically much nicer? The winter months here tend to bring out the worst in cars.
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Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 23 2013, 04:26 AM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ 4 minutes, 56 seconds ago)
Were they driving it in your area where it's typically much nicer? The winter months here tend to bring out the worst in cars.

You would think that would be better. Isn't colder air more efficient?
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Banken
Posted: Apr 23 2013, 05:47 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 1 hour, 20 minutes ago)
You would think that would be better. Isn't colder air more efficient?

Cold air = more air = more gasoline = more power

Please note item number three.

Hot air (to an extent) actually helps gasoline atomize better, which makes it burn more completely. Also, colder weather tends to make oil thicker and engines run colder, both of which lower efficiency.

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