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> Limited Slip Differential discussion
AJS13
Posted: Sep 9 2004, 01:16 AM


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Tho as pointed, adjustable would be best for street.
case
Posted: Sep 9 2004, 10:07 AM


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2.0-way clutch-type LSD's are the most common for drifting.
sideways
Posted: Sep 9 2004, 10:18 AM


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Advantage to having adjustable or not- For a pro drifter a 2-way lsd always has the inner tire moving the same speed as the outer tire. no point in having it adjustable

Added: Hey as a side though... arent adjsutable LSDs a bit more complicated then non adjustables anyways? When your pushing a car hard and sideways all the time- doesnt that mean harder and more complicated maitenence?

This post has been edited by sidewaysgts on Sep 9 2004, 10:19 AM
case
Posted: Sep 9 2004, 11:07 AM


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Well, pretty much all mechanical LSD's are "adjustable" because you can change the gearing to be more or less sensitive.
Neo Vash
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 02:22 PM


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Just for you information, if your Daily Driver is the car you drift dont buy a 2 way lsd. Just leave the stock lsd in thier or if it didnt come with lsd put the vlsd. heres your warning: 2 Way LSD WILL LOCK UP ON YOU WHEN YOUR ARENT GOING FAST ENOUGH AND YOU TURN FOR EXAMPLE: MAKING A TURN IN A PARKING LOT. IF you think this isnt true, well your a dumbass and I hope you get a 2way lsd and it locks up and you crash.
Jabberwocky
Posted: Oct 12 2004, 07:25 PM


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I'm not a big fan of the clutch types because of the inconsistent nature. Clutch type wear out and as they wear out their performance changes, so you are constantly learning and adjusting your setup.

With a mechanical, ie torsen, the way power is delivered to each wheel in very linear. It feels more predictable. Second, since a mechanical is usually based on gears, the way the LSD acts stays darn near the same until the day the LSD decides to break. I guess the disadvatage is that it will eat a couple of horsepower since it has all those heavy gears. It is not really adjustable unless you rebuild it.

Drifters seem to prefer clutch types, I can't really tell why. Maybe it is because many of them can be tuned based on how you stack the plates. Mechanical Quaifes and Torsen are a bit on the pricy side too. All types of LSD see quite a bit on racing use. I think a mechanical or viscous is really the best if you don't want to rebuild the LSD all the time to keep it consistent. I prefer mechanical torque biasing units since they don't have many of the weakness that the others have.

This post has been edited by Jabberwocky on Dec 30 2004, 11:43 PM
Cubits
Posted: Feb 19 2005, 11:23 AM


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The tighter you make the decceleration side, the more a car will understeer when you turn in (unless you make the inside rear lift). If you have both wheels going the same speed (like in a welded/spool diff) the result is massive understeer followed by snap oversteer (as the outside wheel lets go). Ever driven a gokart that couldnt lift the inside rear? tongue.gif

Similar rule applies for acceleration. Understeer followed by snap oversteer. Detroit lockers are fabulous for taking off, but hideous for turning. If you coast the diff is open, but as soon as you put positive torque into the diff (accelerate) it locks tight.

Most clutch diffs are progressive (unlike d lockers and posidrives), with the diff lock building as the wheel speed difference increases. You can alter the final locking torque, and the diff angles (aka ramp angles). The ramp angles are the rate of torque applied vs wheelspeed difference.

I've never heard of a drifter using a torque sensing differential. These are usually the reserve of cars that don't do sideways, like fwd's and lightweight, race biased, rwd's (caterhams). On a fwd they work fabulously well, giving you near perfect torque distribution without disturbing the cornering ability. Only downside is a slightly less sharp turn in (caused by braking torque being transferred through the diff).
180sxdrifter
Posted: Feb 22 2005, 12:32 PM


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QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Sep 22 2004, 02:22 PM)
Just for you information, if your Daily Driver is the car you drift dont buy a 2 way lsd. Just leave the stock lsd in thier or if it didnt come with lsd put the vlsd. heres your warning: 2 Way LSD WILL LOCK UP ON YOU WHEN YOUR ARENT GOING FAST ENOUGH AND YOU TURN FOR EXAMPLE: MAKING A TURN IN A PARKING LOT. IF you think this isnt true, well your a dumbass and I hope you get a 2way lsd and it locks up and you crash.

I have a Nismo 2-way Street Diff in my daily driver. I have no problems parking. Only an idiot drives 40mph on a parking lot.
AJS13
Posted: Feb 23 2005, 10:32 AM


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QUOTE (180sxdrifter @ Feb 23 2005, 09:32 AM)
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Sep 22 2004, 02:22 PM)
Just for you information, if your Daily Driver is the car you drift dont buy a 2 way lsd. Just leave the stock lsd in thier or if it didnt come with lsd put the vlsd. heres your warning: 2 Way LSD WILL LOCK UP ON YOU WHEN YOUR ARENT GOING FAST ENOUGH AND YOU TURN FOR EXAMPLE: MAKING A TURN IN A PARKING LOT. IF you think this isnt true, well your a dumbass and I hope you get a 2way lsd and it locks up and you crash.

I have a Nismo 2-way Street Diff in my daily driver. I have no problems parking. Only an idiot drives 40mph on a parking lot.

A mate of mine, with a Nismo 2-way in his 200SX doesnt have any problem with it locking around car parks, and its his daily driver.
TruenoHachiroku
Posted: Mar 1 2005, 05:41 PM


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hmm not all gts have a stock LSD...-- im using a Cusco 2 way---the worst about lsd is when you drive on road its dangerous... braking in could be a pain because u need time to do that.... but when i shift 1st and rev my car around 6-7 k i can spin around easily... wheels spin together
sideways
Posted: Mar 1 2005, 06:16 PM


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a 1 way or 1.5 way would do that as well. going to a .5 or 2 way just talks about how much lockign youll have while the dif is decelerating, either half lock on the .5 or a full lock on the 2way.

2-way can be a bit bad for daily driving since the wheels are always going the same speed pretty much, makes slow speed turning and parking a pain.

When racing new commers to the 2 way can also complain about the "push" effect (understeer) the 2way will have at first because when braking the wheels are still going the same speed as well, youll need to be good at braking properly and have good throttle turning skills to make good use of a 2 way
lee_integra
Posted: May 20 2005, 12:28 AM


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Will an LSD make drifting easier in an FF? Cause my integra RS doens't even have an LSD, yet I have been drifting for months, am I doing serious damage to my car?
Rayp
Posted: May 20 2005, 07:57 AM


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QUOTE (lee_integra @ May 20 2005, 12:28 AM)
Will an LSD make drifting easier in an FF? Cause my integra RS doens't even have an LSD, yet I have been drifting for months, am I doing serious damage to my car?

I can answer that one. Having an LSD in an FF is quite helpful. It even the wear of the front tyres. It make cornering a bit easier. It makes launching a bit faster and easier. But as far as sliding is involved, i found it makes 180 degree e-brake turns a lot easier and faster, it also make "recovery" faster. But unlike an FR, it won't make you slide more (since power at the wheels make little difference), but makes starting and ending it easier (as the front wheels grip in a more uniform fashion).
But she looked 18 of..
Posted: Nov 26 2005, 12:02 PM


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QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Mar 1 2005, 08:13 PM)
2-way can be a bit bad for daily driving since the wheels are always going the same speed pretty much, makes slow speed turning and parking a pain.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a few of you guys are confused on the way a 2way LSD works... It isn't locked like a locker, spool, or welded differential. A 2-way LSD (or any LSD for that matter) will only "lock" if the torque load on the drive train, exceeds the load at the wheels. If that doesnt happen, the diff is "open".



added: I'd also be quite interested in reading a advanced write up about how a 2way LSD effects the handling characteristics of a car compared to a 1way and 1.5way and other diff types.(drifting applications need not apply). I'm having a hell of a time finding anything about them other then how it is they work. I hear Carrol Smith's book "Drive to Win" has an really good article about it. If any of you happen to have this book would it be too much to ask if you could scan it?

This post has been edited by But she looked 18 officer on Nov 26 2005, 12:13 PM
AJS13
Posted: Nov 26 2005, 12:36 PM


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QUOTE (But she looked 18 officer @ Today at 8:59 AM)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a few of you guys are confused on the way a 2way LSD works... It isn't locked like a locker, spool, or welded differential. A 2-way LSD (or any LSD for that matter) will only "lock" if the torque load on the drive train, exceeds the load at the wheels. If that doesnt happen, the diff is "open".

Yes your very right Nick, hence the name "LIMTED SLIP".
sideways
Posted: Nov 26 2005, 02:40 PM


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pointing out one of my posts from 8 months ago laugh.gif. Anyways depends what kind of (if any) friction modifer youve got back there. Try telling that to a few of my "jdm tyte" silvia buddies out here, who use whatever they can to get those things to lock as quickly and tightly as possible (face it, why else would you have that back there?). Tire noise when theyre trying to park is far from un-common.
But she looked 18 of..
Posted: Nov 26 2005, 07:10 PM


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well then yeah they have some odd ball setup. Hell, I'll argue that the fact that it is a 2way LSD is irrelivent to their tire noise in a parking lot issue UNLESS they are ONLY deaccelerating while they are turning, rather then before then turn into where they are going(the normal/safe way of driving)... Otherwise its the acceleration side of the diff that is locking their tires.


alfa75
Posted: Nov 15 2006, 07:49 AM


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Hmm, lots of generalizations here and not many specifiecs. I think part of the reason this thread is confusing to read is that nobody is mentioning the % of lockup in their examples.
(the JDM tyte guys who screech and hop around the parking lot might have welded diffs with 100% lock, or they might have 2 ways with really high percentages of lock such as 75%).
I am not a diff expert. In fact I know that I am fairly ignorant in this area. I have driven a 240sx on a track that had a welded diff, so I know what that is like... My car has a stock 2 way that was set at 25% lock from the factory. That diff is now 20 years old and I dont know what percentage of lock remains. I will be rebuilding the stock diff with new friction plates. The factory recomends 47% lock for cars that will be track driven (useing 2 plates stacked for 50%, but then broken in for the 3% loss).
I think i will go in this direction even though my car will still be street driven. What lock percentages do the people here run? Does anyone advise against 50% lock for a street driven vehicle?
HorizontalMitsubishi
Posted: Nov 15 2006, 01:27 PM


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QUOTE (alfa75 @ Today at 7:49 AM)
Hmm, lots of generalizations here and not many specifiecs.  I think part of the reason this thread is confusing to read is that nobody is mentioning the % of lockup in their examples. 
(the JDM tyte guys who screech and hop around the parking lot might have welded diffs with 100% lock, or they might have 2 ways with really high percentages of lock such as 75%).
I am not a diff expert.  In fact I know that I am fairly ignorant in this area.  I have driven a 240sx on a track that had a welded diff, so I know what that is like... My car has a stock 2 way that was set at 25% lock from the factory.  That diff is now 20 years old and I dont know what percentage of lock remains.  I will be rebuilding the stock diff with new friction plates.  The factory recomends 47% lock for cars that will be track driven (useing 2 plates stacked for 50%, but then broken in for the 3% loss).
I think i will go in this direction even though my car will still be street driven.  What lock percentages do the people here run? Does anyone advise against 50% lock for a street driven vehicle?

i see people with %100 lock on the street, you just have to be really carefull in the rain. oh btw those posts are form a year+ ago.

This post has been edited by sidewaysstarion on Nov 15 2006, 01:28 PM
ae86gt-apex
Posted: Apr 27 2007, 04:45 AM


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To bring up a 6 month old thread.....
Does the JDM GT-Apex AE86 have the same diff as a USDM GT-S?
Devil240Z
Posted: Jan 28 2008, 09:22 PM


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Welded diff for the win!
seriously though, no joke. you will drift the crap out of everything.
but i guess the pros use 2 way diffs.

as I am new here i feel that i must give my little bits of wisdom at every opportunity:
you cant drift a car that you are afraid to crash. when you have the power to make your fears come true, they will! if you are not afraid then you will still crash eventually but its cool cause you dont care.
atlantian
Posted: Mar 20 2008, 03:45 PM


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QUOTE (Devil240Z @ Jan 28 2008, 09:22 PM)
Welded diff for the win!
seriously though, no joke. you will drift the crap out of everything.
but i guess the pros use 2 way diffs.

as I am new here i feel that i must give my little bits of wisdom at every opportunity:
you cant drift a car that you are afraid to crash. when you have the power to make your fears come true, they will! if you are not afraid then you will still crash eventually but its cool cause you dont care.

well... wielded diffs if you are drifting(since your two rear wheels will always be spinning at the same rate), but i would get a high quality LSD for racing...
NismoTime
Posted: Mar 20 2008, 06:49 PM


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Welded diff gets to your tranny though, Lots of extra punishment on that. If you have an auto stay away from Welded.
atlantian
Posted: Mar 20 2008, 08:12 PM


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ah... the downsides of a torque converter... laugh.gif
Rudy
Posted: Jul 11 2009, 03:44 AM


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