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| Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Initial D Music > When did eurobeat change? |
| Posted by: man_in_evo6 Oct 6 2009, 09:42 PM |
| I recently obtained mp3s from some of the older super eurobeat albums, and as much as I thoroughly enjoy the older eurobeat, I realized that some tracks sound almost nothing like the eurobeat we enjoy today. Since there are those more knowledgeable than myself about the greatest music genre in the world here on these forums, I would just like to know, When Did Eurobeat change?? Was it a gradual shift from old-school to modern, or was it sudden? Because Big Brother by Aleph sounds nothing like Big Brother by Fastway. |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Oct 7 2009, 12:04 AM | ||
First of all (just for reference), Big Brother by Aleph was from 1988 just in case you didn't know. For a long time now I've had an understanding of the evolution of eurobeat that I'm not sure many others understand. I'll break the eras down. 1980-1987: "Italo-Disco" While disco became "uncool" in the states around here, it still thrived, but rather evolved in europe, and ended up (by around '83 I'd say) becoming a sort of fusion between 80's pop and hi-nrg music. It has a VERY big following still today, and you would think it's about as far from eurobeat as you could imagine, but it really is eurobeat's forefather. 1988-1990: "The Japanese Transition" Around this time, Italo-Disco became quite popular in Japan, with songs such as "Give Me Up" by Michael Fortunati being very popular there, the market conformed to their interests. The music became faster, more synthesized. Asia Records were the first to really make a move on the Japanese market I think. Many other labels such as Time Records (founded in 1983) followed suit. 1991-1995: "The Early Days Of Eurobeat" It could really be called eurobeat now. Giancarlo Pasquini even founded the label A-Beat C in 1990 with the knowledge that this was becoming quite a success. Some would argue he even founded eurobeat music in 1st person. Many new artists came along, such as Tomas Marin (Mega NRG Man), Maurizio De Jorio (D. Essex) and Francessca Contini (Norma Sheffield) as well as old ones such as Brian Ice and Elena Ferretti. As much as we may not like them now, you have no idea how crucial Avex was to eurobeat's success around this time. Domino said that Giancarlo had to pull all-nighters sometimes just to keep Avex happy. 1995-2000: "The 'Golden Age'" Eurobeat was quite popular by now, what with the "ParaPara Boom" of the late 90s, reinforced by hits such as Night Of Fire. Songs were faster still, and many consider it to be the best time for eurobeat. Even more new labels have been formed now such as Delta, (later) Hi NRG Attack, and Double Records - later to become SCP Music. 2000-2005: "To The Future" Things were relatively quiet around here. Compilations such as Maharaja Night, Euromach and others cease to exist now, but production quality is improved still, with the usual new instruments and technologies. The feel is very different. 2005-Present: "Eurobeat Now" Modern eurobeat has changed drastically. The songs seem more "trance-like" and definitely have a "new" sound. Hard to put it into words. As for the future... who knows. All we know is that it will be slower. It might have the same "sound", just slower. Take notes from "Star Heart" and "Keep Fall In Love", I think those are good examples of what it'll sound like. What's your favorite period? Mine's... hard to pick. I'd say anything from 1980 to 1995. PS: Thanks for making this topic, I've been meaning to post a timeline for a while. |
| Posted by: iheartmiho Oct 7 2009, 05:05 AM |
| It's a very subjective thing when you mention THE GOLDEN AGE...some people have mentioned that this era was from 1999-2002 when there was a huge boom in the parapara scene (i.e. the Parapara Allstars). Here was my rundown of eras with no particular name or phrase to describe them...more of a feeling you get listening to these songs at the time. Italo Beat <1990 Early Days of Eurobeat 1990-1995 1996-1999 (w/introductions of Delta, Hi-Nrg Attack and Double) 1999-2002 (the regular SEB series had huge hits with A-BEAT C and Delta; Euromach series) 2003-2006 The poppy-era...I noticed a large number of covers and more pop-sounding songs from this generation (add in SCP, Vibration, Saifam, and Hi-Nrg Attack to the reg SEB roster) 2007-2009 present sound...new labels, good hits, and new ways of production (GGM, Eurogrooves, SS, and Saifam's return added to roster) Like any other genre of music, there will always be an evolution of sound.... all of this is just IMOHO... |
| Posted by: Lebon14 Oct 7 2009, 04:21 PM |
| Ryosuke you had a very good subjective timeline until the current era where you put your opinions in it... And, obviously, I say that this era, 2005 - today, is probably the best. I've never been able to listen to SEB 91's first disc fully because I think it just plain s*cks. To me, SEB 181 to 196 were the best albums ever conceived. In that, my top 5 albums : 5. SEB 184 4. SEB 182 3. SEB 193 2. SEB 192 1. SEB 195 << BEST SEB EVER!!!!ONE!ELEVEN!!!! EDIT The first song considered to be similar to today's eurobeat (speed, sounds, etc) is "Tora Tora Tora" by Domino on SEB 48. Also, the intro used in Tora Tora Tora is the same of the intro of Def Leppard's "Die Hard Hunter". |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Oct 7 2009, 08:18 PM |
| ^Noted, opinions removed. Feel free to copypasta anywhere you like now. |
| Posted by: Static_Skunk Oct 7 2009, 09:06 PM |
| I first started listening in the early 140s, and worked my way back, so my opinion may differ, but I feel like it was somewhere in the late 70s where things started to take shape towards where they ultimately ended up (ie : the sorts of songs most people became familiar with through Initial D and such...), gradually becoming something that would appeal more and more to the Japanese audience... I feel like the 'disconnect' shift, for me, came somewhere in the 160s or early 170s. There were still some good songs, but I felt like the J-Pop button had been pushed (although with some singers (Domino), it had always been there) and I just didn't like the music near as much as I used to. |
| Posted by: beat freak Oct 7 2009, 10:23 PM |
| I liked the older Eurobeat. Especially when Claudio Accantino was onboard with Asia and Radiorama. The Eurobeat sound of the mid 90's was the best. It's when Live Music Studio was writing for Time records. Finally everything is all right as long as HRG Attack still make Eurobeat. |
| Posted by: man_in_evo6 Oct 7 2009, 11:20 PM | ||
I love hi-nrg as well. But even hi-nrg has shifted style over time. If you listen to "Bad Illusion" compared to "Intercooler", they are very different songs yet both done by Cy-Ro. I still say the greatest set of eurobeat albums occurred from the seb 050 to approx seb 100, as well as seb 160 to now. |
| Posted by: DarkSkyed Oct 8 2009, 09:38 PM | ||
I can so agree with you about that SEB195... Woah I did really enjoy EVERY song on that album, even Asia and HRG! I wish they could produce more of such albums  |
| Posted by: kiieru Nov 19 2009, 03:52 PM |
| I really started to notice a change around album 100 and then in 160, when I really started to listen. All of my favourites have been 158 and up. The 180's were definitely the best and some of my favourites have been produced in the 190's. When it was announced that 200 would be slower I was nearly crushed. Eurobeat was finally hitting its full potential and they want to change it. Still, we'll see in January. |
| Posted by: Crockett Nov 13 2015, 05:53 AM | ||||||
I noticed, that Eurobeat world interest resurrected again about year 2005, together with internet development, and that almost all fans were new, they tried to guess everything, discover like from since the very beginning. That's my only explanation for such comments about Aleph. The fact of new technology in studios, easier and faster possibilities to create music, isn't tantamount to better music. The next certain fact, in 2005 when no matter how many people like modern Eurobeat, it was less popular than in 2000 or especially in 90s. What is for me an obvious, the worth has a talent, an idea and desires of artists and feelings put into a song, no their devices. New synthesizers had different sound and if someone thinks, that something was changed, is wrong. Now, after next 10 years we can clearly hear the same monotonous sounds, like some people called old-school Euobeat.
We should remember very rare series by Flea Records, in Japan on Alabianca Records license and released by Toshiba EMI Ltd. The period 1990 - 1995 as the one is more correct. Future A.Beat-C. team worked in 1990 and 1991 for two another labels, still yet for Time Records as in 80s, and for Flea Records. The sound was already identical like A.Beat-C. style. Something what I only suggest to separate was still continuing That's Eurobeat. Avex Trax today call Asia Records and this first well known CD compilations series as not typical Eurobeat, but new wave, trend, the period of changes in Italo Disco and I agree with that.
Probably golden, but more than in 1990 - 1995? More limited A.Beat-C. and Time Records discography because of appearing Delta, finally finished Maharaja Night series releasing. New very short series like Eurobeat Flash rather hadn't a huge position like SEB, however the second part of 90s was too still the best time ever. |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Nov 13 2015, 07:18 AM | ||||
2009 me is an idiot, you're right about Flea and the period being more like 1990-1995. More than that, I would make the previous period 1987-1990 (mostly because of Flea).
I said "golden age" because of Delta. The big three labels on SEB were running ahead into what were the most popular years of eurobeat (the last '90s into the early '00s). I'm also stupid for saying production "quality" increased. More like the gear used was always changing. And to be honest, it changed almost on a yearly basis for a long time. It's fairly easy to tell a '91-'92 A-Beat C song from a '93-'94 one. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Nov 13 2015, 07:18 AM |
| (Since this post is 6 years old we sort of need a refresher on "modern Eurobeat") 2005-Present is Modern with Trance, Electronic, and other genres but 2010-Present is where we have Fandoms (American & Japanese) that like Eurobeat before and decide to use it for their songs like how MLP fan music is engulfed with Eurobeat from the 90s and 05. Eurobeat is the longest Music genre in the world but it still adapts and changes, but only so much, to survive to this day. Now any Anime, American cartoons, and even games have Eurobeat fans that would do covers and remixes. (in my opinion its great) |
| Posted by: Crockett Nov 13 2015, 08:51 AM | ||
Flea had very interesting division like someone planned it. 1987 - 1990 was the period of Mauro Farina, Giuliano Crivellente 1990 - 1991 was the period of Giancarlo Pasquini, Marco Gulinelli and Fabrizio Rizzolo 1991 - 1992 was the period of Sergio Dall'Ora and Stefano Castagna But... Only the period of 1990 - 1991 we can treat as the same like Avex Trax music. The rest even later had yet its own life and sound, very different, what we call Eurobeat since Avex Trax activity. Until 1994 we could get a head ache. One started and developed like A.Beat-C. and Time, another labels like Flea was a great however small supplement, and meanwhile Asia Records slowly ceasing productions. Since 1996 we got again more labels, more different sounds, again more compilations, on the other hand with some consequences for these very first. 1. Two labels on Avex Trax CDs 2. Three labels on Avex Trax CDs 3. Four - six labels on Avex Trax CDs Each of these divisions means many changes and different era. Were them market needs or artists needs to be more independent after years work in big groups? I don't know certainly. But as we know, more chances for smaller, new, younger artists resulted dying Eurobeat culture, lower sale, everything. |
| Posted by: Crockett Dec 4 2015, 09:45 AM |
| Several months after I met Avex Trax compilations and started the passion of A.Beat-C. music, the earliest era of the king Mauro Farina and That's Eurobeat became to me quite boring transformed Italo Disco. For some songs I think they will be, but of course not entirely, too much classics for a sentimental person like me. Maybe it was natural feeling, hearing the news, just I needed refreshment. Every now and then we back to all, that is good. Later, limited releases since 1992 of That's Eurobeat were a calm return to european dance style, FCF guys and new co-workers had the new studio and devices, and I'm still crazy about those strong sounds as well. The break was insignificant. Just first original That's Eurobeat series finished with one CD in 1994 and already in 1995 was created Boom Boom Beat. In 1996 Alfa International released like again the series That's Eurobeat Classics, with very much of these last old Asia Records beats, appeared That's Eurobeat Now etc. Maybe are on the internet some people remember, what meaning had Mauro Farina and team as label 3B in the second half of 90s in Japan?... Whether popularity of Avex Trax covered this talented man and his totally different new Eurobeat, wild, fast and parallel enjoyable for fans accustomed to style, always connecting with the heart, source of Italo Disco?... In retrospect, actually That's Eurobeat times were forgotten and probably they aren't considered as real Eurobeat, for addition nowhere we can't read about Boom Boom Beat sale and position on the japanese market. What I only know, they couldn't participate in Avex Trax series, because they were contracted with Victor company. |
| Posted by: xiao Dec 4 2015, 03:01 PM | ||
Farina is pure sexy times~ ♪ I always thought that Dave Rodgers & Franz Tornado were the two progenical results of Mauro splitting in half like a chromosome bubble. Even to this day, his penultimate release Fire in The Night is 1000% phonic~intercourse, and those sliding riffs in Hero... oh my gosh, brilliance! The man, the myth, the... richass bastard, I need to work for him!1 xD His trax are nothing but everlasting non-stop fun~ My favourite Farina song... Gunfire - My god, I wish he'd do a 2016 version. ♥ |
| Posted by: Lebon14 Dec 5 2015, 11:59 AM | ||
http://www.junodownload.com/products/mark-...ire/1362012-02/ *whistles away* |
| Posted by: Tessou Dec 5 2015, 12:33 PM | ||
Listen to his (even) earlier stuff. Much as I similarly appreciate Gunfire, a fair amount of his older work had a better sound. Danny Keith - Keep on Music Radiorama - Chance to Desire Mark Farina - So Long Just a few examples. I'm sure Kyon, a fellow Farina guy, has better shit to add to the cauldron. |
| Posted by: xiao Dec 5 2015, 04:10 PM | ||||||
 Noice noice~!I hadn't head this one, although I was thinking of a remix with more of a rocky feel to it... I'm a filthy rock & roll emulator~ and when I heard Hero a couple of days ago, I was in Sinclaire glee~ so an edgier Gunfire popped in my head.
Oh my god bro! What have you done, my head, it has exploded! ♪ I'm gonna go worship Farina's bifocals~ now I want a 2016 Keep on Music revision, if only because you can barely hear Mauro's amazing voice in this track... didn't they have those pre-amp thingies back 30 years ago? XD Bloody entrancing melody man!! I wish his vocals could be heard clearer with a bit more echo and some of that glitchy/robotronic effect sprinkled here and there... just something to make his legend of a voice more pronounced~
 Another song I really wanna hear Farina sing is... Black UFO. I mean he produced it... might as well go for the win and kill it completely with his vocals~  |
| Posted by: Tessou Dec 5 2015, 05:29 PM |
| Glad to be of service. Mauro is God. |
| Posted by: takumi333 Dec 5 2015, 05:39 PM |
| Two more: Joe Yellow - I'm Your Lover 1986 Max Coveri - Guy Guy 1989 BTW on Danny Keith - Keep on Music: The original unmolested version was released on I Love Disco Diamonds Volume 1 which is imo one of two series (in Europe) that best showcases the Italo-Disco and early Eurobeat era (the second series being I Love ZYX Italo Disco). |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Dec 5 2015, 06:15 PM | ||||||
Any of the shit he sung during his time with Time Records.
He also sung Love At First as Joe Yellow, and that's about as good. Slightly related note, I picked up pretty much every Joe Yellow 12" late last month, stoked to finally have them. You can check out most of his vocal work by searching for it on Discogs: http://www.discogs.com/artist/154973-Mauro...ls&type=Credits Not everything is credited there, but a lot of it is. One thing that isn't is the first record he ever appeared on, "You And Me Tonight" by Caravan (his old band-turned-one-off-italo-project), 1983.
|
| Posted by: xiao Dec 5 2015, 06:50 PM | ||
If Mauro did an English version of Konya wa Hurricane I would die the happiest man on earth~ <3 |
| Posted by: Crockett Dec 9 2015, 11:57 AM | ||
Excluding Radiorama example, here it's not Mauro Farina, only in this first song. About Boom Boom Beat, until 2007, label had a quite big discography on vinyls, unfortunalety almost only there in extended versions. Before Super Eurobeat, Eurobeat Flash by Cutting Edge and Dance Panic! Presents Euro Panic! by Victor were the CD series in Japan, included the biggest number of tracks by 3B. |
| Posted by: xiao Dec 9 2015, 04:22 PM | ||
Any sources brotha~man? Just wondering cause the vocalist in Keep On Music sounds 99.99% like Mauro~  |
| Posted by: Tessou Dec 9 2015, 05:39 PM | ||
I can provide video proof that Mauro is the vocalist behind So Long. I can't find the other vid on hand, but it also shows him doing Keep On Music. Unless you can drum up the real vocalist, I call bullshit on your claim. |
| Posted by: iheartmiho Dec 9 2015, 07:39 PM | ||
That's Farina through and through! |
| Posted by: xiao Dec 9 2015, 07:52 PM | ||
Indeed, Crockett was saying the contrary~ |
| Posted by: Crockett Dec 10 2015, 08:43 AM |
| Radiorama was invented by Aldo Martinelli on Mauro Farina request. Project started before anybody thought, that since 1987 Italo Disco will be faster and will come a new Eurobeat trend. With his collaborator Simona Zanini wrote first single "Chance To Desire". But due to the fact, that he was involved in the production many other projects, his name wasn't to be listed on the cover. Mauro Farina did otherwise, just broke a verbal agreement. Because of this, Martinelli withdraw from the further composing. Mauro Farina then longer continued to work on next songs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3GOje-9JXQ Here's a another song, where you can clearly recognize "Chance To Desire" vocalist. Radiorama since the single "Desire" sounds like common at that time Time Records style, which was similar for many artists focused around this label. Then you could hear Mauro Farina and Clara Moroni. Of course I don't deny about Mark Farina or Danny Keith voice, it's obvious. |
| Posted by: Tessou Dec 10 2015, 01:45 PM |
| Confusion came up because of the way you phrased your earlier post. As Xiao said, it appeared that you said only the Radiorama track was Mauro when it was the other way around. |
| Posted by: LIKE.A.MAGIC Dec 29 2015, 05:18 PM |
| Really love eurobeat in general but Im on the same page as OP, but music is just the same as our human progression my friends. Things constantly are moving and evolving~ |
| Posted by: xiao Dec 29 2015, 05:53 PM | ||
Ditto Magic~man! Whenever I'm overwhelmed by the sheer number of styles and my ineptitude to adapt to the ever changing trends... I just forget about genres and listen to what sounds good, even if it's a grainiy 90's synth-pop cassette in my uncle's Nova. xD Music's just oscillating waves within the electromagnetic spectrum~ ♪ |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 19 2016, 07:03 AM |
| I feel, that much influence on the changes had artists private preferences as well. Look at style of Mauro Farina first, his music was easy assimilable, quite neutral. Dave Rodgers likes rock and from 2000 hired some power metal vocalists, but never resigned and always produced just clear dance music. Already in 90s A.Beat-C. was describing as having melodic synth parts and pumping bassline, thanks to you can feel happy and cheerful, no matter how many BPM. Even Alberto Contini comes from and now still is a member of metal band Bulldozer, however he composed not much aggressive Eurobeat, could separate this and another genre. In turn Bratt Sinclaire, personally I'm not sure why and actually among which fans, became a new king of genre nowadays, even for some fans since Delta founding, or called as the most interesting songwriter in A.Beat-C. And what I want to tell, he has similar like Alberto Contini, typically rock/metal past, beginning and so fast started to express that in Eurobeat. Now next, who does it, is Manuel. Can get an impression, that what was left of Eurobeat is now a place to experiments of artists, which also have rock/metal souls and they present it under the name of Eurobeat. This music has today fans in USA, where the disco music wasn't never popular in the ages of gold Eurobeat, in Japan whereas rock/metal what I know is very popular. So I came to the conclusion, that the artists like Bratt Sinclaire gained now again some popularity with this style because of the extremely connections with heavy sounds. Well, I'm skeptical as to many details. I wonder, whether this way the genre still called today Eurobeat and represented by some old best, but parallel always loved hard sounds artists, has a chance to be observed once more somewhere else except Japan or among single fans, just like any news. |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 19 2016, 08:48 AM | ||
I think Bratt is popular nowadays for a number of reasons: - He started his private label with a bang. ie. more publicity than your average eurobeat label. - He created Hyper Techno. - He connects with his fans. - He is a guitar - SinclaireStyle Ads VOICE!!  Manuel's style is very interesting; he mixes very metal vocals with dance beats, and it works for him like a charm~  Also, he's got an upcoming track w/ Cristian & Stefano in the works! I'm absolutely delighted by the progression of eurobeat to be honest~ On the Eastern front you have DJ Command & FN2 with their heavenly arranges. Plus Rute & Aki with their star☆fire voices~ <3 On the Western front you have synthmaster Travis Odyssey with his genius compositions & mind-blowing harmonies! Then you have Nick, Idris, and Zyrion from The Paradise Last indie-label rising to the sky like a shooting flare~ god I love them! Then there's d.notive with his completely amazing throwback italo disco style. Also Equinox, a newcomer who's red on the heels of DJ Command, interlacing a broad range of genres into the new eurobeat sound that'll eventually burst it's way into Avex. And lastly SEB 237 is coming up around Valentine's Day, hopefully with Mauro's new song included~ Eurobeat's gotten a |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 19 2016, 12:57 PM | ||
Could you tell me what means "private label"? And what means "more publicity than your average eurobeat label" ? Eurobeat or kind of music called Eurobeat is so old, that interpretations of dance music, which is (was?) really european, advantages, qualities, details of sound and limits just disappeared for some of fans like me, but became normal, ordinary for next generation. I have personally some own criteria, I talked with experienced persons, producers of faster but the old type of dance music, which liked Eurobeat and can rate its technical value today. The conclusion is that the technical level is still good, but for listening some part of creation the current artists isn't possible. Because how to encouage someone, who doesn't like rock, metal, or no limited wildness, if you will introduce a song terrible fast, with vocals like Manuel, from totally not dancing genre, being in practise a background for ParaPara? Esthetics of the voice and melody, which you could easy sing and save in your mind for a long time, today arouses very strange feelings, if you really remember and felt former "Made In Italy" style. Simply, some like me think it's "Made in Italy" yet, or "Made for Japan", the second biggest music market, but incomprehensible in the rest of the world? And we regret, that such changes because of japanese needs sometimes are even unpleasant while listening and not acceptable. About the mentioned artists, each of them gained something, but on a different scale. The achievements in 80s, 90s, basic achievements for all musicians, which actually aren't participation of most Eurobeat artists, in my opinion divide this genre at many levels, for these, where we like "stars" and beauty of synth composing and these, where win multiplicity of technical effects and BPM. |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 19 2016, 02:13 PM |
| Indeed, the style today is definitely very different than what you hear in, say for example, the early SEB's before the hundreds. Or Italo Disco, which where most of the old guard came from. But I think that was an equipment limitation... artists 10 years ago didn't have the hard/software to discover the sounds of today. I think people generally gravitate to good music, regardless of genre. My father was hearing some of my old SEB's, and he was like... 'Umm, this is basically Pop' Which is technically uninformed, but goes to show ya why people aren't really adamant about music categories so long as the song's good. The cool thing about evolution is that it's backwards compatible; ie. you can basically produce the same Michael Jackson beat via emulation if not a downright brilliant update cover. But the past is seldom forwards compatible, given time-machines don't exist yet. Some people like dancing to the more bubbly taste of mainstream eurobeat, if such a thing exists? Others like dancing to Rimonti's medically insane lyrics. And others prefer the tokusatsu stylized moves of hyper techno~ ♪ > Private Label His own studio. > More publicity Radio shows, internet, etc. |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 19 2016, 06:25 PM | ||
The possibilites are now unlimited, but it's a shocked change. The artists always and everywhere worked at real studios, on many separate devices being an huge equipment, costed hundreds of thousands dollars. That was a thing, another symbol of music ! Now you or me, we can download a software, included these all in one, on private computer, on a screen for free. We can buy for addition small console, when we want to be more professional. So which Italo - Eurobeat label or producers haven't the own studio? I don't really know what is going on with current Delta or Hi-NRG Attack places, are they or the staffs work at home as well? Go Go's Music rents SCP supposedly really nice big studio, so the next label has it, even little Dima Music isn't worse, he has too. SinclaireStyle has, skipping Sun Fire, which is obvious, we know. In the past, the big record companies and young artists had professional buildings used as studios, which survived until today or became bigger. About publicity, I think at this moment it's totally closed subject. Hundreds of likes on Facebook don't create a real popularity and kind of life for Eurobeat. These fan pages are dead or wake up like SEB, once per 2 - 4 months. Former fans miss for such things from past, when without internet and except CDs and vinyls, the promotion and alive world of Eurobeat just overwhelm its richness. Radio was absolutely basic case, not only for advertisements. |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 19 2016, 06:49 PM | ||
I always thought SCP was Stefano's home, no? xD GoGo's renting SCP... that explains what Manuel's doing at ReB~ |
| Posted by: Teh Asphyx Apr 15 2016, 12:53 AM | ||||
Yeah, most people can afford equipment nowadays. But a thing you can't buy are skills. You'd have to develop them. Many self-titled producers totally lack skills nowadays. The whole development has gone in a totally wrong direction. But it's not the fault of the equipment. Back in the 80s a musician could send a not-good-sounding demo to a record company and their judgement was based on the music (and maybe also the performance and look). If a record company thought it was interesting, they paid for the studio and marketing. Nowadays it's quite the opposite, a record company only works with musicians who are already successful at marketing by themselves and provide perfect sound already, which means only privileged musicians have a chance. It's not important how good the music is, it's important how good they sell themselves. In Eurobeat it may be a little bit different but I don't know anybody who can make a living from Eurobeat nowadays.
None of the Eurobeat producers are businessmen. And Facebook isn't a good marketing platform for people who don't have lots of fans already. And by lots of, I mean something beginning at 100.000 and not at 500. The algorithms of Facebook are only interesting for people with 100.000 fans and more or people who can spend a lot of money for advertising (and then you could ask yourself if there ain't better ways to do advertising). The problem is, that there are so many bullshit articles about how great the internet is for independent artists. People start to believe that crap. And if an artist fails at marketing, he things it's his own fault. He doesn't know that he didn't have a chance from the beginning. I think Eurobeat can only become popular again if two things happen: 1. Eurobeat producers should do musically as they please and not try to please a market. Italo Disco in the beginning was innovative and ahead of their time (the style Fockewulf 190 developed became totally popular in the later 80s for example). Now they copy sounds David Guetta (and others of course) used a few years before, because the sounds are already popular. 2. Don't go the indie way. Team up, not only with musicians but also with business people, visual artists, and others to create a network for selling Eurobeat. Stop relying on Avex, this thing is dead, there aren't any ambitions anymore but still Avex is restrictive about marketing besides SEB. But it seems to me that most Eurobeat producers have given up already. It's either a labour of love only or they try to make a sound so different from Eurobeat that it's not Eurobeat anymore. EDIT Another point discussed here are the Metal influences in Eurobeat. I don't think Manuel has Metal as main influence, it's more stuff like Queen. But it's true that there was a time when Metal became a huge influence on Eurobeat. Earlier Italo Disco had much influences from Jazz, Fusion and Progressive Rock. These influences are very important. I don't think EDM is a good influence for Eurobeat because it's too close and Eurobeat will become alike. The influences should come from totally different genres, because that's how the innovation was made in the past and can be made in the future. |
| Posted by: xiao Apr 15 2016, 03:28 AM |
| Concurred. I think the only reason Italian producers still make Eurobeat is because of their contracts with Avex. Mauro, Stefano, Dima, heck even Sinclaire all have dayjobs with their studios. Avex is too stuck in their way of doing business, and they have little room for experimentation. What the ferk happened to Tech♥Para?? Sinclaire had to make 5 volumes of Hyper Techno to fill the void. Yes it's a money-hole that'll never make money... even less than Eurobeat; but god-damn that music is brilliant, and I love it on an equal level as Eurobeat. Since they are brothers per se~ I wonder who makes more money with their compilations... Avex with SEB, or Monstercat with their self-branded series that's picking up steam with a similar crowd here in America as the Eurobeat crowd in Japan. (Anime fans / geeks) I highly dislike EDM, I think it has no soul nor passion... it's the new elevator music in my opinion. Heck at least elevator music's catchy... EDM is just plain boring. Dubstep/Brostep on the other hand, which is hated by pretty much every non-Japanese anime fan in the world, due to it's relation to mainstream bro-culture as the name might suggest, I fscking love!! Why? It's just robot-sex noises right? Well, yeah~ that's why... I love it cause it's crafty, creative, and quite difficult to make right from a sound engineering point of view. Pure Dubstep/Brostep I dislike because it's repetitive and has no rhythm ...BUT... Eurobeat + Dubstep... that to me is: A step in the right direction to burn Genres and create arrangements that sound otherworldly beautiful. ♪ Eurobeat is a brand, not a genre... to me at least. I hate genres. I think music should flow into a form where it can stop worrying about using the same VST's / mixing techniques, and just become a stand alone composition like the statue of David. If it sounds good, that's all that matters... and that's what gonna sell. Look at Nuage's solo Album; it sold like pancakes cause it sounded good, not cause of Eurobeat this or J-pop that. If something sounds good, it's gonna get into movies, commercials, your head, your bedroom, and what matters the most & drives music itself... your wallet. Cause no money no music, plain as that, at least from a CD printing-press's perspective. I think we should shove Eurobeat / HyperTechno into pop-culture and make little girls suck our 21 pilots while having eargasms to dat ace song~ ♫ It's 2016, genres are dead / fans are dead. People and most importantly bank accounts only want one thing... a good song. Period. As for artistic ability. I consider sound engineers above regular musicians. You can play the guitar like Sinclaire or sign like Ace... but give me a second with ARM or FN2 and I will worship the ground they walk on.  They may have grown up on Super Mario and Lawson's Evagenlion Doritos... but HOT DAMN their songs sound 1000x times more elaborate, catchy, and fun than any given producer/musician raised on Beethoven and Bach.To hell with musicians... they're all snobs anyway, mixing sound engineers are God in my eyes.  ♪ |
| Posted by: Teh Asphyx Apr 15 2016, 05:28 AM | ||||||||||||||||||
The official SEB YouTube channel has 1.348 subscribers while Odyssey Eurobeat has 45.214. I don't know what other channels are used to promote Eurobeat, maybe there is something I haven't discovered yet but I think these numbers say a lot. But I can go on … Eurobeat Brony alone has more than 10.000 fans on Facebook. Dave Rodgers is the only Eurobeat musician/label to have more than 1.000 fans (Clara Moroni doesn't count because she is famous under her Name as a rock singer in Italy). Followers on Twitter: A-One 5.065 Sugano 1.657 Odyssey Eurobeat 5.022 - SCP 739 Dima 269 SinclaireStyle 614 DJ BOSS 734 - DJ Skyblue 1.368 SEB doesn't seem to be a thing anymore even though it's still appreciated in this forum and on Eurobeat Prime.
Dubstep is quite interesting but mixing Dubstep with other genres gets boring very quickly.
Your example is great. But I think it only works when only a few songs are like that.
The most popular Eurobeat isn't even being produced in Europe anymore. But it is still also a genre, because musically it stands on its own. I wouldn't even call it a subgenre of something because it is so unique.
I hate it too. It's okay to distinguish let's say rock from rap because it's clearly different. But all those tons of subgenres we have nowadays are driving me insane.
I wish it was that easy (see my other post in this thread before). But the no moneys no music thing is really true. It's easy to listen to music without spending money, but you can't make music (at least not at a certain quality level) without spending money, and as a musician you also need money for living.
To me it seems to be quite the opposite. We never had so much genres than now and so many people insist on these genres and are so narrow-minded when it comes to music. The first thing people ask me when I tell them I'm a musician is the genre I play. My answer is always almost all.
Depends. It only takes practise to become a good technical player of an instrument or singer. But there are musicians able to play very special, personal, and emotional. And this is something I value very high. Sound engineers don't do much musically. They just mix the channels. Do you perhaps mean composers/arrangers? If yes, I'd second that. Because creativity is something you won't get through practise. It's something you get from life and it's unique to everyone. You have to be open minded and let things flow into you.
I'm both and I'm a proud snob.  Even though it's much more difficult to be poor and be a snob than to have money and live like a chav.  |
| Posted by: xiao Apr 15 2016, 06:02 AM | ||||
Ahh yes, arrangers... the wording just differs by country me thinks. Here in the states there's only 2 types of sound engineers: a mixer'er and a master'er. Master'ers don't do anything save volume control & final mix cleaning, totally easy if you have a decent PC that's not an overpriced MacBrick.  The there's mixer'ers, they make music. That's it. But yeah, I'm referring to the genius that made this song. ☆
But you're a good snooby Bazooka my sweet mango~ money always turns people into whinny little girls that start complaining about the silliest things, piracy etc. That's why I love Saigen Complex, not only because the singer is Gackt times 99 to the power of a thousand... but because their stance is fsck it~ do whatever we'll make music, you're just there, listen if you want. Completely insane from someone that wants to make a living on music alone, but hey, dreams are intangible. The moment I actually start thinking I can make a living off of twitter-blogging is the moment I'll take a hard look in the mirror and... laugh at myself. I was freely given, and I will freely give... what little talent I have anyway~  ♪ |
| Posted by: Crockett Apr 15 2016, 10:12 AM |
| Italian dance music, or only even Italo Disco with later transformations to High Energy and Eurobeat are so wide, uncommonly significant, that direct association, connecting with the music produced today for Japan by a few labels on each SEB lost a logical sense. Yes, we can say about Pop music "Oh Michael Jackson was the king". But looking to force something similar with Pop nowadays, that's a battle, which can't be won. Similarities have never existed. What was once valued, is ridiculed today. But whether we can typify Pop like EDM, with this huge variety in many countries, where is produced so long (together with Eurobeat)? I would say "Yes", if EDM goes the same overall way like Pop. Just I mean - it's still changing. Let's only skip, that Pop means constantly being popular, earning money, beating radio charts positions, stars shining in headlights at the live shows, and it needs more and more news. Have been passed too many years, also in italian dance music. Independent producer may compose the one genre, the one style, put his creativity even into some new synths, but as long as he feels passion to be the producer of this, not another genre. He will survive having a loyal community. THAT IS TODAY ITALO DISCO. If producer feels the passion to do everything and moreover is blocked by his publisher, requirements of the youngest generation, he'll never stay and can't stay with proven previously good melodies and so on. THAT IS AND WAS EUROBEAT YEAR BY YEAR SINCE 90s. So why I write these extreme opinions (?), how the most of new tracks are terrible, which aren't warmly received, if this is Eurobeat, only with the same name, which was maybe forgotten to change? Not at all, that's nothing now, what first was called Eurobeat. I realize very late, it hasn't any sense to discuss how it was, and how is at this moment. What for to remind the former Eurobeat fame, the interest of japanese people to listening so exotic european music, being crazy about the individual unforgetable tunes, or just who earned a fortune and what gained as a stage star, if today including the sound, these things have nothing to do with Eurobeat releasing? It's EDM genre produced still in Italy for the japanese music market. And that's the end of comparison. Producers with passion, these older and very first, not for money still want to be the Eurobeat artists, but can't reach anything anymore, because it's not modern Eurobeat target. They haven't nothing to prove already, their golden years finished, and their former achievements also shouldn't be compared with people from the next generation and what they're doing now. These all things, which have changed simultaneously with the music core, really shouldn't be called clearly "Eurobeat", like it was the same music. The mark is SEB I think, but the marks going through changes. Number of volumes is a rich history, but isn't a reason to show, that this EDM italian genre still exists. I considere, Eurobeat is surely alive, but it's the comfortable, conventional name, to don't confuse the fans. Have I my mind closed? It's only a subjective matter. I like Eurobeat, you like "Eurobeat". All about, what do you want to hear, what and when did you meet called Eurobeat? |
| Posted by: iheartmiho Apr 15 2016, 12:14 PM |
| ^We come from very different generations of what 'eurobeat is'. You have a love for Italo Disco and that's great. I do like some of it, myself. But genres do evolve over time, but I am so hesitant to say that modern eurobeat isn't eurobeat. New works still retain those vital characteristics that make it so. Yes, producers are finding new soundworlds to play with and experiment with. I love that. I remember when everyone was in a ruckus because SCP did trancy sounds with Pamsy way back in the 140s and 150s. "Eurobeat is dying!" they said, but people ended up really liking those sounds that fit Pamsy really well. So eurobeat is an ever evolving genre and I'm proud that producers are playing and toying with it (see HI-NRG ATTACK and SCP for this). If eurobeat only sounded like Italo, then it would be Italo...not eurobeat. |
| Posted by: KiraTM Apr 15 2016, 01:47 PM | ||
Thank you! I wanted to say something here the whole day but I couldn't put it in words. That's exactly what I wanted to express! |
| Posted by: xiao Apr 15 2016, 04:56 PM | ||
100% agreed on what iheartmiho said. Just because Rock & Roll isn't Johnny B. Goode as it originally was, doesn't mean Queen or Floyd aren't Rock & Roll. I'm not xiao, because I grew into a 32 year old guy; the original xiao was 9 months old, right? On the contrary my friend, something is defined as something by it's living definition not what the dictionary says.  Image size reduced, original size: 3024 x 5376. Click here to view the image in its original dimension. Eurobeat is indeed what you say it is, but it is also what it is now. It's a living fire of ideas; the epicenter that started out as a match is still there & can be seen from time to time~ but in order to keep the flame alive and burning, it's been constantly renewed over and over by different types of fuel... some making the blaze even brighter than what it was originally meant to be, others changing it's natural colour, and those few songs that just shatter the mould of genres and consume the world like the sun~ ○ ○ ○ |
| Posted by: Teh Asphyx Apr 16 2016, 12:52 AM | ||
| My critique goes only to the SEB series. Other Eurobeat isn't affected by it. And here I have to partly agree with Crockett. As I said Italo Disco and Eurobeat were always characterised by musical innovation. In the 80s even popular English artists like Pet Shop Boys for example went to Italian record stores to buy their good shit for inspiration. Copying David Guetta with a few more BPM is not experimental or playing around, it's nothing but a miserable try to get popularity again while abandoning the original spirit of the music. Of course the result can be still a nice song but it has nothing to do with the “soul” of Eurobeat. I don't agree with Crockett blaming the Japanese for that because it's the Japanese who continue with the real spirit of Eurobeat and Italo Disco. SEB doesn't even sell good anymore in Japan. Pamsy's songs were fine. The modern sound on Eurobeat isn't that much of a problem for me if it's done right. If one genre is really ruined by sounding modern, it's Metal. Modern Metal is really the worst. But I'm not a nostalgic, it's just that with loud mastering, fast music can't sound hard anymore, because there is no room for staccato. It only works with slower music and that is why modern EDM has much lower BPMs. Here again Japanese modern Eurobeat is much better. Most kick drums have perfect sustain curves and balance well with the bass lines. But not all Italian producers are bad here. I never heard a bad mix or mastering from Delta or Boom Boom Beat. Never.
No, it's the same everywhere. Composer: Person who invents the main melody, harmonies and rhythm. Arranger: Person who creates all the tracks in a song. Mixer: Person who balances the tracks in terms of volume, pan, effects etc. Masterer: Person who gives the song the final touch to be ready to be released. Stuff like compression and limiting on the stereo sum, cutting and fading for final release. |
| Posted by: xiao Apr 16 2016, 01:17 AM | ||||
Don't forget Hyper Techno too brother!!  ♪
Delta = Sinclaire, Newfield, and now Matteo Rizzi BBB = Mauro Farina ALL LEGENDS!!  --- --- --- > Composer: ZUN Draws like a grade schooler, makes nursery rhymes. ZUN can die in a fire along with Toho, KanColle, every other beating a dead horse fandom in the world...  Give me Sugano, IOSYS, A-One, DiGiTAL WiNG, and Eurobeat Union ORIGINALS and I will buy every single one of their CD's... which I still do anyway~ xD > Arranger: N. Hemler > Mixer: N. Hemler > Masterer: N. Hemler > Composer: N. Hemler > GOD: N. Hemler ♪ ♫ |
| Posted by: Crockett Apr 16 2016, 05:33 AM |
| Do you remember guys Ace Warrior? Passed 17 years when he appeared on the some last A.Beat-C. vinyl. And we still don't know, I've never solved the puzzle on my Facebook group, who was he. About him discussed also the fans of metal music, on forum of the band "Edguy", where the main artist was Tobias Sammet - considered as Ace Warrior. And I want to say, metal fans, maybe fanatics, were truly happy, that their favorite metal singer and instrument player has never been involved in disco music. Well, they hate pop, disco, EDM. When I was teenager, it was very popular trend, rock, metal fans hated such genres. So try to imagine, if metal music must to survive, what would say fans, when this, what you call evolution in Eurobeat, became a new wave in metal? Mixing of genres, new influences. IMPOSSIBLE ! I'm not totally closed to changes, I recognize the evolution in Eurobeat in the each year since 1990 and I accept it... and like more or less. I noticed a lot of incredible light, parallel powerful synths by A.Beat-C. and SCP during 2000s, which could be I guess, pompously defining, beloved around the world. These labels squeezed out from new devices that kind of tunes, and it gives me a very deep pleasure, like former Italo style. I also associate many Delta tracks hypnotizing the ambitious melodies from the newer Eurobeat, not clumped together drums about 150 - 160 BPM, without anything inside. Eurobeat Masters digital series helped me to look quickly at Delta creation of many years, and I was mostly satisfied, what I discovered. But what about the rest labels ? Once so, and once so... What about SEB after 2010? Third decade of Eurobeat is going on. Sun Fire if not because of Futura's voice is disliked or "weird" on the same CD, because in practice nobody stayed with the beats of 2000s. And the last question, why Italo Disco, which after 80s had more songs than whole Eurobeat after 25 years, didn't burn up, and the same features are the only one and successful core? Is it really needed to be changed each 5 years, or more often? Whether new studio devices are more limited than these before 20 - 30 years? I heard Avex Trax is open now and the artists have freedom with composing. We saw already the variety in 90s, in 2000s, so what is going on now, where's the evolution, where's the passion of using modern studio devices to differentiation the styles, without mixing with another genres, if Italo Disco lives better than Eurobeat without extreme evolution? Passion, passion, passion, I believe in this, but isn't that passion limited to "Oh my god, I have to go to the studio and do something quickly, next SEB is soon"? |
| Posted by: xiao Apr 16 2016, 06:46 AM | ||
When I buy a new SEB album this is what I do: 1. Rip it to my harddrive 2. Listen to all the songs 3. Ask myself - Can I drive to this song? 4. Ask myself - Can I exercise to this song? 5. Ask myself - Can I kill zombies to this song? 6. If it's a Yes - the song goes in my Eurobeat folder. 7. If it's a No - the song goes in the Recycle Bin. --- --- --- That's all that matters to me... and that's what the average non-audiophile does. Producers know this, and it makes their job of churning forgettable-song after forgettable-song for Max Matsura & DJ Boss easier. SEB is a platform of experimentation for Italian producers, nothing else. Eurobeat will never die... but Eurobeat will never be Pop either. It's gonna stay on the internet, as a pretty relic of a time long gone. |
| Posted by: Crockett Apr 16 2016, 07:29 AM | ||
I don't want even to think, when they last time visited any italian studio to say "Not bad, change this or that, but keep going what do you planned". These times gone completely too. As Avex Trax doesn't need italian sound, fresh, revolutionary in Japan, as they give the teams the total freedom, yes, to make everything easy and still worthwhile. So I agree with you, freedom of composing means here just "I will do something", an experiment. But it seems to be pointless, because the former point was different and we back what I said above - no sense, it can't be compared now and called the same "Eurobeat". The only reason to do Eurobeat is to be continued, becuase "I as a producer like to do EDM". |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 3 2017, 03:20 PM |
| If you would like to read the Eurobeat history, is a one place which contains objective and fully described informations ? About commercial using the term of Eurobeat we don't have to discuss. Today on eBay auctions each dance style, european music, pressed in Japan is "Eurobeat". But 80's Italo Disco, Euro Disco, Disco, various Hi-NRG don't have to be Eurobeat as the separated genre. I'm sick about one thing in the history texts. Tell me, if I'm wrong, if you never met such point of view. Any time when I look at different texts I see the following sense of the statement: Eurobeat was first the commercial name for all imported dance genres to Japan, which were evolving till 1990, when Avex Trax invented "real" Eurobeat. I understand, that 80's and 90's Eurobeat is perhaps considered as a too far mysterious era outside Japan and some european countries, hardly to discover, someone is too young, but it doesn't mean what are the facts about the name of "Eurobeat". There were more CD series before Avex Trax foundation and within the first years of development of this company. Not only That's Eurobeat, which surely wasn't next commercial name, because made by italian producers, who totally focused on japanese market to be only "Eurobeat" artists. I don't get, why Avex Trax music gained generally in people minds some "privilege" to be called "real" Eurobeat. The evolution after Italo Disco, between 80's and 90's is often shown as “not clear” Eurobeat, still something between, but every next evolution in 90's and later, on Avex Trax series is always "pure" Eurobeat. I was wondering what one publisher has to do, to nominate what is unreal or more real sound of Eurobeat. I guess nothing. Fans opinion. Several extremely important years in the Eurobeat history are introduced in one sentence as "some conversion" until Avex Trax took over the “right” beat. In fact the same beat already existed a little earlier, doing by the same people of future Avex Trax as well. I can only add, that Avex Trax didn’t release a significant amount of Eurobeat, not only single tracks from cooperated labels, which were available in Italy… Fortunately the italian record companies co-worked with another publishers. Later apparently Avex Trax bought copyrights and put on their compilations what was popular, basical and successful before and somewhere else in Tokyo, but this may look different if somebody really thinks, that Avex Trax was the first “true” Eurobeat representative in Japan. I mean those few years of 80’s and 90’s. I think it’s necessary for promotion, as a curiosity and just to be objective. Avex Trax wasn’t several first years neither determinant and monopolist. Producers weren’t sticked and enforced to write for them. From the perspective of these all years, hundreds of thousands, millions sold records, which were awarded by the japanese market, what could be only a dream today, don’t belong at all to Avex Trax history, or sometimes were just reissued. |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 4 2017, 02:59 AM | ||
 ... Okay in 3 sentences, just like the intro to a 9th grade essay... explain what you just said to me like I'm 5 y/o. |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 4 2017, 04:37 AM | ||
I hope you're joking again? If I wanted I would wrote 3 sentences... You have lunch break, too short to read or you're so lazy and don't treat seriously the topic, the user, so I must repeat ? Some discussions require more engagement, passion and if you want to participate, please don't ask for text for a child.  I shared some facts being sick how Avex Trax is treated around as "first, better and the one and only real Eurobeat publisher", but I don't really care anymore about replies, especially trying to turn on the light in minds... after 30 years and when everything is on Discogs. I always liked this thread, but too often I see, that any older Eurobeat out of Avex Trax isn't "original".  |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 4 2017, 10:10 AM | ||
I should've just read the bolded parts! To be fair Avex made Eurobeat what it is today with the SEB anthology ~ if Max Matsuura wouldn't have Commodore Perry'd Alberto Contini, Aleph, & Bratt's arses... I think Eurobeat would've never even sailed a mile past Milano. We owe the success of modern dance music & EDM to the Swedish pop artists & producers from the 90's. Eurodance took off thanks to those guys like Lady GaGa's producer etc etc. You can't blame for people that credit Avex as the pioneer of the Eurobeat genre, especially since modern Eurobeat sounds nothing like Italo disco. ♫ |
| Posted by: Crockett Jan 4 2017, 10:55 AM | ||
So my post alludes just to the texts from many sites about first selected years of the history of the genre. We can write how many years Avex Trax keeps continue the series Super Eurobeat, but not that all the rest discographies aren't right to be called "true" Eurobeat, depending on who is the last current publisher. The more if Avex Trax also re-released something, what the market in Japan got earlier... Pioneer or the forerunner? That's a huge difference. And yeah, traditionally about "Italo Disco"... One thing here too. Neither fan of "real" Italo Disco (1982 - 1987) doesn't want to touch unduly the later kinds of Italo beat, so early Eurobeat, but for some fans who say like you in quote, older Eurobeat is more Italo Disco only because of similarities. Do you see contradiction ? Evidently, respecting Avex Trax contribution, the most logical is to divide Eurobeat for many generations, styles without choosing the "right" names of publishers. And please remember, that although for you and much much more people "modern Eurobeat sounds nothing like Italo disco" and early days perhaps, this sound can't be proud of any big live shows, awards and thousands, millions sale, what was normal a long time ago under various publishers... |
| Posted by: xiao Jan 4 2017, 11:54 AM | ||
Imagine if Avex starts a compilation series with the Italians all about dubstep... We Love DUB Steping ...  (?)That would totally sell with the kids today! XD |