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  • Initial D Fifth Stage has ended with 14 episodes. [confirmed]
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> What's your thoughts on 'Fujiwara Zone'?
kyonpalm
Posted: Apr 4 2013, 04:47 PM


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QUOTE (Gunma's 34 @ 17 minutes, 34 seconds ago)
SEGA/SHIGENO MAKE UP YOUR MIND ALREADY!!! Is it green or is it blue???!!!

Pretty sure it's blue, canonically.
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Vortrex
Posted: Apr 5 2013, 01:52 AM


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It's both: In Anime Takumi has green aura:
user posted image

But the wings are white and a bit blue and in IDAS blue.
Takahashi Rensuke
Posted: Apr 5 2013, 04:55 AM


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QUOTE (Vortrex @ 3 hours, 3 minutes ago)
It's both: In Anime Takumi has green aura:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/cx1/auratakumi.jpg

But the wings are white and a bit blue and in IDAS blue.

So why not say: Takumi has a green aura, but when he's driving the 86 it became blue with wings awesome.gif

There was also a blue aura of his 86 in Second Stage's Act 6.
Seri
Posted: Apr 5 2013, 06:17 AM


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QUOTE (Takahashi Rensuke @ 1 hour, 21 minutes ago)
So why not say: Takumi has a green aura, but when he's driving the 86 it became blue with wings awesome.gif

There was also a blue aura of his 86 in Second Stage's Act 6.

And during the Wataru race, as well.

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hashiriyatakahashiry..
Posted: Apr 5 2013, 08:15 AM


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well, I think, considering only the manga, the " Fujiwara Zone" is an acquired skill due to practice as Fujiwara has done over the years, driving in any weather conditions or road while making his deliveries.
Ryosuke mentions that the first time he saw it, was in his race against Fujiwara in Akina, then it is something he had and he perfected during races and new roads used by Project D expedition .

Fujiwara becomes one with the 86, because of his experience with this car, so he knows how it will behave before entering the curve no matter the weather, the road conditions or the condition of your tires. This may explain the fact that he has more grip during curve, even at high speed, giving the impression to those who are behind and the audience, that 86 behaves like a 4wd.

Another reason is that it relies entirely on the car and acts recklessly, while their opponents usually reduce speed to avoid an accident. thus, he can be faster in the curves than your opponents and understand it, being the opponent in best condition, either tire, either with better car or even being a professional, disturb pride opponent, doing them to move beyond their limits and end up making a fatal mistake.

(sorry for my bad english).

This post has been edited by hashiriyatakahashiryosuke on Apr 5 2013, 08:18 AM
Jhaqastar
Posted: Apr 19 2013, 11:18 AM


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@Ahmed1993 and
@Takahashi Rensuki

I'm glad somebody actually read that hahahaha. Well I did put effort into it happy.gif

@Takahashi Rensuke

Waaaaaah I failed explaining it then sad.gif ... That's what the basics racing schools don't teach their students yet. Basics are always, brake first... Then release... Then Turn... Then Throttle. The next step is technically how to link that all into one fluid motion. And the perfection of that motion is the Fujiwara zone (I think) happy.gif

@Filphil

Yes. Technically it's that happy.gif . Takumi can just use his tires really really really really well.

SPOILER


@Glocker

MRs can also exit at alarming speeds too! Well not as much as AWDs at their full potential, but maybe at like a 300whp battle, the MRs won't be left that much at corner exits tongue.gif.





I think (or refuse to deny) that Initial D is still pretty realistic. It's just that they've stopped explaining everything that's happening... It started when God foot and Keysuke battled. While KT was conserving tires, he wasn't using the clutch. He was clutchless up shifting and downshifting. Then when he spotted the R34, the next immediate scene was him using the clutch to downshift tongue.gif. Some people believe that KT's unbelievable get-aways are unrealistic, but they seem pretty possible to me!

This post has been edited by Jhaqastar on Apr 19 2013, 11:19 AM
Meteor
Posted: Apr 19 2013, 12:47 PM


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Here's something I quickly threw together in paint. This clear up anything for you Takahashi Rensuke?
user posted image
You'll get Jhaqastar's explanation straight away once you understand this.

This post has been edited by Meteor on Apr 20 2013, 06:10 AM
Filphil
Posted: Apr 19 2013, 06:03 PM


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Im sure you could have found a nice chart like that via google, Meteor. It's a nice mock up though.

The traction circle is the most basic visual aide available to drivers. I'm surprised there are people who weren't acquainted with it before hand. I guess it shouldn't be too much of a surprise though. They obviously never read the Gran Turismo manuals when video games still packaged decent ones.
Takahashi Rensuke
Posted: Apr 20 2013, 07:27 AM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Today, 4:47 AM)
Here's something I quickly threw together in paint. This clear up anything for you Takahashi Rensuke?
http://s22.postimg.org/585zmaiox/traction_budget.png
You'll get Jhaqastar's explanation straight away once you understand this.

Umm, sorry Meteor, but do you have a larger picture of it? Can't really see it tongue.gif
RickkyyP
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 10:26 AM


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For me Fujiwara zone is simply extracting 100% of the grip out of the tires all the way through the corner. 100% on braking, transitioning to 100% corner speed and then 100% of the available traction to 'drive' out the corner. After driving the car that long Takumi knows precisely where these limits are...
That said, the anime over dramatises it in 5th stage by having the car completely vanish in corners.

I believe it should be represented as in 4th stage when we see Godhand use his 'Time Attack' line in the final run, he is slowly pulling away and Takumi shouts 'I don't get it where's the difference in what we are doing?' to me thats how it should be shown smile.gif
Takahashi Rensuke
Posted: Apr 22 2013, 07:10 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Apr 20 2013, 04:47 AM)
Here's something I quickly threw together in paint. This clear up anything for you Takahashi Rensuke?
http://s22.postimg.org/585zmaiox/traction_budget.png
You'll get Jhaqastar's explanation straight away once you understand this.

I think I got it, more or less. Thanks Meteor, and Jhaqastar!
Meteor
Posted: Apr 23 2013, 03:10 PM


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So you actually managed to read it then? Good. Now I feel less bad about procrastinating on making a larger image/simply linking you to a more in-depth explanation tongue.gif Glad to be of help.

And yep, Fifth Stage's Fujiwara Warp Drive was never the best way of depicting things.
Rudy
Posted: Apr 24 2013, 09:06 PM


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RickkyyP
Posted: Apr 26 2013, 06:37 AM


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QUOTE (Dorifuta @ Apr 24 2013, 09:06 PM)

To be blatantly obvious, the first half of Fifth Stage had only two moments that were exciting and/or awesome, and none of them directly involved an official Project D battle! sad.gif

The drift by Takumi infront of the imposters was sick!
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Posted: Apr 26 2013, 08:01 AM


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QUOTE (Dorifuta @ Yesterday, 8:06 AM)


To be blatantly obvious, the first half of Fifth Stage had only two moments that were exciting and/or awesome, and none of them directly involved an official Project D battle! sad.gif


Ikeda vs Keisuke.

The part where the phone rang and Keisuke started accelerating.

I thought that was epic lol.
RedComet
Posted: Apr 28 2013, 12:39 AM


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QUOTE (Jhaqastar @ Mar 25 2013, 12:52 PM)
First of all... Hi, I'm new tongue.gif. Anyway!

This series has been my racing bible as far as I can remember! I remember going in track days and a few touge runs, then I watch the series again and suddenly learn new things. It's a long shot, but I would like to believe Initial D is realistic as far as the concepts and stuff. So I'll give this theory busting a shot tongue.gif.

Fujiwara Zone. What we have so far.

1. In the eyes of the enemy
2. An unexpected burst of speed
3. was said to rival 4wd

And the blurs happen at the exits right? Well at least that's what I remember (please correct me if I'm wrong). I think Fujiwara Zone focuses on corner exit, at the point where cornering forces forces transitions to acceleration forces. But i guess if it involves that then it also involves braking forces transitioning to cornering forces because if Takumi can do the corner to exit transition, he could do the braking to cornering as well.

A little background on what I believe to be is the fastest line. Enter the corner, over speed a taaaaaaad bit, get into an oversteer, but not really a drift (I call it angle of attack. Basically it's the zero counter steer method where the car is turning but your steering wheel is dead center) to carry as much speed as you can through the corner, then, as you squeeze the throttle for the exit, you only put as much throttle to rotate the car to keep it turning, but as the same time, you transition the tires form cornering to exiting. Then once you reach 100% throttle, the tires could already support it 100%. I'll explain further later.

I think Fujiwara zone focuses on how Takumi really knows the 86 like the back of his hand. He could pin point exactly what the tires are doing, and transition them from one task to another and waste 0 of the tires potential.

farnorthracing.com/images/gripcircle.jpg
I can't post links yet but that's the visual aid I wanted to show/ rolleyes.gif

I'm sure you guys have heard of the traction circle. Basically, the outer circle is the absolute limit of the car (note I didn't say tires). Any more than that, and the car won't turn or brake or accelerate. I didn't say it's the limit of the tires because you can be oversteering and still be in the circle. An example would be when you're in a drift, but you are technically understeering because your car washing out of the course. To put into perspective what I said above, technically, to get the fastest time, you need to always be on that limit of the traction circle. Think of the G-ball. You need to trace that circle with the G-ball. When you brake, the ball hits the upper line. Then when you corner, the ball hits the limit on the side,. When you accelerate, the ball hits the lower side.

The basics of racing will teach you this:
Brake 100% Then 0% and let the car settle
Corner 100% Then back to 0%
Then 100% throttle

But ideally once you graduate from the basics:
Brake Corner
100% 0%
99% 1%
98% 2%
97% 3%
... ...
3% 97%
2% 98%
1% 99%
0% 100%

And it's the same for cornering transitioning to accel. I think even pros have a hard time doing the transition that smoothly. Like there might be a time where he's baking at 50% but is only cornering at 40% or something (not real figures) so he lost 10% of the tires potential that could have carried him more speed on the corner and/or enabled him to get a faster exit speed.

So back to the Fujiwara Zone. I think Takumi has the ability to trace that outer line better than most people could. And the proof lies in the Tofu.

SPOILER


Scenario (Note I believe that the following figures are exaggerated):
Takumi and his opponent is about to exit the corner, his opponent thinks, to the best of his senses and abilities that he is tracing the traction circle. But really, while he is unwinding from the turn, he was 50% turning and 30% accelerating while Takumi, knowing the 86 so well, is 50% turning, 50% accelerating. So on that specific instance Takumi is accelerating for the main straight 20% harder than his opponent. (But I think in reality the discrepancy is smaller but happens rapidly in the microseconds that they are in that corner).

To his opponent, it is impossible to accelerate any harder at the current situation they are in... But Takumi did! So for them, it's an unexpected burst of speed that literally came out of nowhere (or rather, outside of their comprehension since they genuinely believe that they too are at the limit of the traction circle). Hence, the teleportation effect! Voila! Fujiwara Zone!

That's why the opponents tend to get confused and say "does that 86 have 4wd" since the only way they can imagine Takumi exiting a corner at the fashion he was was for Takumi to have 4wd. (note... It's a pet peeve of mine that most people believe that 4wd gives you magical cornering ability that exceeds 2wd... Um... No... What 4wd does is give you magical abilities when exiting a corner. And it's not even magical tongue.gif. Imagine trying to put down 600hp with only 2 tires, that's 300hp per tire, compared to putting down the same power with 4 tires, 150hp per tire.)

Whoa that was long happy.gif . I hope I made sense unsure.gif


Oh, as for the gallery seeing the "teleportaiton," I believe people who really race and understand would see it. But for the regular gallery, they won't. The'll just see the 86 going really fast! Drivers who really battle understand when his opponent is pulling away from him, even if the distance of the cars does not seem to be widening for the people who never experienced it before. I experienced it on my first grid race, battling for first, I could see my opponent in front pull away slightly, but then I gain again in certain ares. For the spectators, they think that we're just keeping a certain distance. But as for my friends who were watching (they also are racing nuts), they see the areas where I pull up and where I get left behind. It's the same when you watch racing and you can tell that a certain car is slightly oversteering while cornering and he's using it to corner faster. Most people won't notice that and consider the car to just be grip driving.

SPOILER

I like this explanation. It explains how some drivers have that almost "magical" pace to them when they're hot (or, as Ryosuke puts it, 'in the zone'). They're simply put, by their experience and skills, able to find the fastest line, brake later, get on the throttle earlier (and with the smallest loss of traction possible), and thus simply go faster that whomever with they're fighting for position.

I think the neat thing about Initial D is that it tries to take things like these and illustrate them in a way that's entertaining for people who aren't necessarily experienced driving enthusiasts, while still imparting the core ideas from racing strategy that said enthusiasts would pick up on.

Look at Ayrton Senna. Many people said of his performances at Monaco that he seemed to 'phase' through the armco barriers. Logically, this is of course, impossible. But his closeness to the barriers, his entry and exit speeds gave the pyschosomatic illusion that he was moving through the barriers. He was displaying Fujiwara-like (or is Takumi displaying Senna-like) ability in getting within millimeters of the armco, with absolute confidence and car control, while maximizing his use of the tyres' grip and his car's potential.

After all, you only drive at the limit by driving at the absolute limits of what you--and your car--can do.
Buntami
Posted: May 26 2013, 12:38 AM


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Takumi typed in a cheat code that made him teleport.
KobayashiMaru
Posted: May 27 2013, 12:54 PM


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Sir Jackie Stewart used to race the same way. Even taught normal people how to drive smooth with a small ball in a large bowl on the bonnet of a car. That's where the water in a cup technique comes from.
kyonpalm
Posted: May 27 2013, 01:06 PM


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QUOTE (KobayashiMaru @ 11 minutes, 48 seconds ago)
Sir Jackie Stewart used to race the same way. Even taught normal people how to drive smooth with a small ball in a large bowl on the bonnet of a car. That's where the water in a cup technique comes from.

There are many rumours about where the water-in-a-cup technique in Initial D was derived. Until Shigeno explicitly states the true origin, we don't really know.

Interesting factoid nonetheless.

This post has been edited by kyonpalm on May 27 2013, 01:06 PM
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Ballist1x
Posted: Jun 4 2013, 04:42 AM


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Nos?

For me the fujiwara zone is just takumi getting 'insane' entry/exit speed into a corner. The 'phasing' graphics you see if just a visual representation of takumi taking the corner faster than the opponent is believing possible in the ae86.

EddieNanakase
Posted: Jun 4 2013, 11:04 PM


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Here's the thing, this is in no way a spoiler since I don't read the manga. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed, but Takumi only gets advice from Ryosuke, Takumi doesn't really gets taught anything, unlike Keisuke. Remember the two different driving styles that Ryosuke talked about in Fourth Stage when Takumi raced the Tommi (I think that's his name) the professional driver? There's an orthodox and a pure street specialist types of drivers. I actually think that what Ryosuke means in the "D" of the Project D's name might be something like D stands for "difference", as in the difference of the orthodox and pure street specialist. You can tell from miles away that Project D's final opponent is going to be themselves, the two double aces are going to have to face each other. In fact, in some of the episodes in the anime, don't remember if it was Keisuke or Ryosuke that says that even though they belong on the same team (Project D), Takumi is still their enemy. I think what Ryosuke really wants from Project D, is to know who really is faster, an orthodox (professional type of driver) or a pure street specialist (a street racer). So I think that Ryosuke is helping the orthodox racer (Keisuke) and the pure street specialist (Takumi) to reach their peaks in driving skills to set them off in a final race to prove who really is faster, an orthodox racer or a street racer. Hey, honestly, this is my opinion, my prediction of what's going on, I haven't read the manga at all, but I think this is something that a lot of us have picked up from the episodes so far. As for the Fujiwara zone, it caught me off guard when I first saw it. I thought for sure that they were going to kill the anime with this Fujiwara zone. I thought that because one of the main reasons why we have fallen in love with the anime, is because of it's realistic depiction of real life racing. The settings are real places in Japan, the techniques are also real, and the physics are realistic. On the other hand, the Fujiwara zone makes things look a little bit too fantasy like, but I realized that things aren't really like that. I believe that the Fujiwara zone is actually a state in which Takumi corners faster than his opponents, but only by a small margin. The Fujiwara zone illustrates this small margin of gain. I think it was animated this way to portray how fast does Takumi's cornering seem to his opponents.
sideways
Posted: Jun 5 2013, 01:28 AM


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I personally dislike the "fujiwara zone" thing in the anime as its been presented. Like stated before, its presented as being too magic'ish'y to fit properly in the initial d ive grown up watching.

The way ive TRIED to "rationalize" whats been demonstrated in the anime (the blinking forward thing), is that takumi is able to exit through a corner "faster than youd expect". Ie the drivers are building mental images/predictions (like catching a ball or something, you lead it with your eyes/hands to see where its going to go, not where it is) of what takumi is doing in his rolla- Predicting where hell be in the corner, during, and how hell be accelerating out of it- and then suddenly/abruptly takumi accelerates at a rate you werent predicting, and the reality of it contradicts what the mental prediction was. Kind of a mental reaction to "he should be there but somehow hes actually there!.

From what I gather about it based on whats been stated in the anime, takumi is basically accelerating through/out of the corner at 100% of what the car is physically capable of doing- instead of the "humanly possible" 95-98% (Bs numbers pulled out of my ass to elaborate on the situation). Everything was "perfect" and couldnt have gone even an iota better/faster.
Ballist1x
Posted: Jun 5 2013, 02:22 AM


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When did he disable the 'ping ping ping' noise that occurs at over 66mph? In vol 2 of the manga he takes Cole out and its pinging through all the corners..
DreadAngel
Posted: Jun 5 2013, 03:57 AM


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I can understand what they're trying to represent, but to show it like the car has a blackhole warp drive isn't the greatest solution. A comment from one of my more humorous friends was Initial D Stage 5 asked Tite Kubo [Bleach] for help...

Cole? = Iketani? [I don't watch the American **** version]

Most likely disabled when they switched the Engine... Different ECU to run that engine...
Takahashi Rensuke
Posted: Jun 5 2013, 04:35 AM


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QUOTE (Ballist1x @ 2 hours, 13 minutes ago)
When did he disable the 'ping ping ping' noise that occurs at over 66mph? In vol 2 of the manga he takes Cole out and its pinging through all the corners..

You know what? I totally forgotten about that! Kudos to you for pointing that out...

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