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> Calling for Mod Change
 
Should Spaz be removed as Moderator?
Undecided/No Comment [ 11 ]  [27.50%]
Yes [ 5 ]  [12.50%]
No [ 24 ]  [60.00%]
Total Votes: 40
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Rudy
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:21 PM


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This post has been edited by Dorifuta on Oct 4 2013, 12:23 PM
Shirogane
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:34 PM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 20 minutes, 21 seconds ago)
Are we not talking to real people? Do we not form long-distance relationships with other humans? If you think that respect has no value with people you know on the Internet, then you must think it's okay to say anything to someone on the phone, or through a letter (whoever still sends them).

To me, that's just stupid, and more than a bit socially irresponsible.

I probably should have stated internet and real life are two different things. It's akin to Carl Jung's theories of Personas and Shadows; just a mere mask.
Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:37 PM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 31 minutes, 51 seconds ago)
It wouldn't be backpedaling unless you weren't really sorry.

Would you be sorry that they happened to find it offensive and that's their problem or would you be sorry because you actually may have hurt someone and feel bad for it?

Spaz himself said that he didn't care about the comment. Specifically...

QUOTE (Spaz)
He called me on on crashing my car? I didn't even notice, lol. Doesn't bother me.

So if Spaz himself wasn't hurt... then who would I be apologizing to in the vein you suggested? I can only apologize to those who found the comment offensive.
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kyonpalm
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:37 PM


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QUOTE (Shirogane @ 3 minutes, 22 seconds ago)
I probably should have stated internet and real life are two different things. It's akin to Carl Jung's theories of Personas and Shadows; just a mere mask.

That's an entirely subjective opinion and not one that I (nor many, many other people) share. I'm sorry you don't understand that these are actual people you are talking to and that they deserve as much respect as anyone you meet offline would.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 5 seconds ago)
Spaz himself said that he didn't care about the comment. Specifically...So if Spaz himself wasn't hurt... then who would I be apologizing to in the vein you suggested?

I'm not going to speak for Spaz, but I shouldn't have to explain how society works to you.

This post has been edited by kyonpalm on Oct 4 2013, 12:39 PM
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Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:45 PM


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Considering your avatar and signature, that assessment would be correct.
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Kerxn
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:49 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 3 minutes, 40 seconds ago)
Considering your avatar and signature, that assessment would be correct.

That was unnecessary, N1. No need for ad hominem.
Rudy
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:51 PM


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kyonpalm
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 12:54 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 8 minutes, 41 seconds ago)
Considering your avatar and signature, that assessment would be correct.

Real nice. Stay classy, man. Let me know if you ever feel like "apologizing" for that remark.

This post has been edited by kyonpalm on Oct 4 2013, 12:56 PM
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Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 02:18 PM


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Considering that this has turned into 'Kyonpalm grills N1 in Spaz's stead--The Thread', I don't find it unnecessary at all. It appears Kyonpalm is attempting an attack on my character, so I will respond to that in kind. If Spaz wants an apology then he can come in here and ask for it. I'm not sure why you're all up in arms over this topic, Kyonpalm, but I think it's time the thread got closed before it really gets out of hand.

I'd do it myself but considering you yourself could then just reopen it, I'll leave that to the green badges instead.
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kyonpalm
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 02:25 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 7 minutes, 1 seconds ago)
It appears Kyonpalm is attempting an attack on my character ...

I'm attempting an attack on the hostile (and at times, offensive) attitude you've had on here for years. I've seen it for as long as I've known you and I'm done just "dealing with it" and seeing others let it slide. If you identify your character as hostile and offensive, then by all means, yes, it is an attack on your character. However, if my nearly five-year-long knowledge of you is correct, and your character generally does not consist of those things, then you'll understand what I'm doing.
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Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 02:38 PM


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Ah, gotcha, you're more...how to put it, hijacking the thread in order to replicate the original post but change the object to myself. Very well, I shall respond under that assumption.

You're damn right I can be hostile and/or offensive on here. There are of course outliers; for instance, the blatant trolling of the Fandub thread over in Initial D General Discussion a year ago or the insane abuse of moderator powers during the (thankfully) brief existence of the Nomake Wan forum section. Those were not my normal attitude towards others or posting on IDW in general, they were done with an ulterior motive in mind and done entirely as a joke. It was obvious to many who knew me that this was the case, and I believe on both occasions I even discussed the situation with you directly.

However, let us put those outliers aside and talk about my general, normal attitude towards this board. There was a very simple reason I stopped being a moderator. It was not stress, it was not being shamed, nor was I fired from the position I had been promoted to. It was because the restrictions of being a moderator had finally made it so that I could not be a member of the community. So I took off the badge, handed it back to Perry, and from that moment onwards treated Initial D World as I had always wanted to but was never able to. I was able to speak freely and voice my opinions without wondering if I would be contradicting a staff position. I could call out the staff for making some stupid decision or another without worrying if I'd get grilled in the Staff section about staging a coup. I could call other members idiots and express my disgust or amusement with their ridiculousness without the need to 'uphold the integrity of the badge'.

It of course opened me to the same rules that any other member had, which meant the same warning system as any other member. But that's exactly what I wanted. I want to be treated like any other member. If I step out of line, I expect the staff to step in and slap my ass for it just as much as I expected staff to slap the asses of those who deserved it back when I was a member of the moderating team. I expect unilateral, unbiased moderation. I do not expect--and in fact abhor--special treatment based on veteranship, activity or any other such criteria. I have not kept these facts silent. I have spoken about this on multiple occasions over the years. It should not be news to anyone except perhaps Kerxn who was last here when I still wore a green tag under my username.

So do your jobs, people. You think I'm stepping out of line? Let me know. But know that I hold you to an even higher standard than the other members here, my peers. You are staff. You are the moderating team. Your existence, your ideas represent the very core of what IDW is and will become. The decisions you make reflect the board as a whole. If you're going to come after me, then I'm going to cock an eyebrow and wonder why you're trying to follow in Alastair's footsteps rather than taking a deep breath and perhaps talk about it with the rest of the staff before pulling the trigger on a post.

Is that enough? Is there more you would like me to say? More you want me to explain? I've nothing to hide, kyonpalm. Let's get everything right out into the open for everyone to see. That appears to be what you want, and I'm more than willing to oblige.
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kyonpalm
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 02:51 PM


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No, that explains it all pretty well. All I can say is...

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 15 seconds ago)
If I step out of line, I expect the staff to step in and slap my ass for it just as much as I expected staff to slap the asses of those who deserved it back when I was a member of the moderating team. I expect unilateral, unbiased moderation. I do not expect--and in fact abhor--special treatment based on veteranship, activity or any other such criteria.

...from now on, I will ensure that you are held to the same standard as other members, just as you wish.

Also, regarding "hijacking" the thread - that's very misleading. I'm extending this discussion about your post to the bigger picture, which is your posting behavior. The catalyst for this was your offensive jab at Spaz's character which I (and many other people) did not let slide. I never changed any object of discussion in this thread - the point of this entire discussion all along has never been about Spaz's status as a mod, as you intended in your OP, but rather your unacceptable attacks on his character (which you intended to raise but I would assume did not know you would be called out on).

From the moment you posted this thread, the main focus of the discussion was about your attacks on his character, not whether he should be a mod or not. The poll votes were just "accessories". I never "hijacked" anything.
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Perry
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 03:30 PM


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I appreciate the feedback, Donz0rz.

As previously mentioned, we did away with the section-specific moderator long ago. However, we do have an area in mind of where that moderator will be when we bring someone new to the team. Like the latest addition, OkamiWind, we (both Lena and I) contacted him over on Skype and did a little "interview" thing prior to adding him. Gone are the days when I just pick anybody I want and have them find out one day that they are a mod when they log in.

Anyways, yes, the moderator has to be knowledgeable in the unspoken sections that they are assigned to. They need to be active in those sections. But the most important of all is that they have to be level-headed when making a judgment call. FlohtingPoint would be a good addition to the team if he wasn't so self-absorbed. He would have banned half of the people who frequent the automotive section if we made him a moderator.

What people outside of the forums has very little bearing and effects on the forums. Let say OkamiWind has this habits of cutting used Arcade Stage cards in pieces and put them in a plastic bag and sleep with them every night, that's a little strange behavior, but it doesn't affect him moderating the forums. So why should we judge him for that? (Sorry, OkamiWind! This is just a made-up example)

Spaz is not going away any time regardless of the poll result. But I personally appreciate the comments and feedbacks in this thread, negative or not. It feels like a community where we can talk it out, in a civilized manner.
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Nerubian
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 04:10 PM


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What's the fun of being deliberately offensive to someone for humorous reasons? People who don't understand this kind of jokes automatically feel attacked. And this can lead to serious fights with bad aftermaths.
Archbishop Banana
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 04:13 PM


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Someone's digging their own grave here....
Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 04:19 PM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 1 hour, 16 minutes ago)
No, that explains it all pretty well. All I can say is......from now on, I will ensure that you are held to the same standard as other members, just as you wish.

You have no idea how sad it makes me to hear these words. All members should have been held to the same standard as all other members since the beginning. It was not so when I was a moderator, and I would have hoped things would have changed since then. Finding out straight from the horse's mouth that this isn't the case is depressing.

If anything, perhaps this thread will have served a purpose for IDW--finally bringing about the change I desired even as far back as the green badge in ID General Discussion. An end to favoritism.

QUOTE (Perry @ 36 minutes, 58 seconds ago)
I appreciate the feedback, Donz0rz.

As previously mentioned, we did away with the section-specific moderator long ago. However, we do have an area in mind of where that moderator will be when we bring someone new to the team. Like the latest addition, OkamiWind, we (both Lena and I) contacted him over on Skype and did a little "interview" thing prior to adding him. Gone are the days when I just pick anybody I want and have them find out one day that they are a mod when they log in.

Anyways, yes, the moderator has to be knowledgeable in the unspoken sections that they are assigned to. They need to be active in those sections. But the most important of all is that they have to be level-headed when making a judgment call. FlohtingPoint would be a good addition to the team if he wasn't so self-absorbed. He would have banned half of the people who frequent the automotive section if we made him a moderator.

What people outside of the forums has very little bearing and effects on the forums. Let say OkamiWind has this habits of cutting used Arcade Stage cards in pieces and put them in a plastic bag and sleep with them every night, that's a little strange behavior, but it doesn't affect him moderating the forums. So why should we judge him for that? (Sorry, OkamiWind! This is just a made-up example)

Spaz is not going away any time regardless of the poll result. But I personally appreciate the comments and feedbacks in this thread, negative or not. It feels like a community where we can talk it out, in a civilized manner.

Thank you for the post. Spaz quite obviously deserves the spot he has from the feedback this thread has generated, but I should point out curiously that your post about the current moderator hiring process does conflict with what Tessou posted on Facebook. According to Tessou there was no thought whatsoever put into any individual's skills, specialties or expertise upon bringing them on board, and that all was merely the criteria of being active members and being level-headed. If the latter is so, Spaz most certainly deserves his spot... though there may be some question as to other staff in the 'level-headed' category. If there is in fact some level of specialization among the 'global moderators', and that they're expected to cover some specific subset of the forums as a priority, then my initial postings were not as misguided as Tessou had led me to believe.

As such, I am once more left scratching my head. Whose information do I believe? Tessou, the admin on board who 'hired' almost the entire current moderating team? Perry, the man who owns the board and has run it from the beginning? Myself, ignoring both sides and running solely on my own inferences? There is a conflict of information which should be resolved once and for all.

EDIT: Sorry Nerubian, you posted while I was writing this.

QUOTE (Nerubian)
What's the fun of being deliberately offensive to someone for humorous reasons? People who don't understand this kind of jokes automatically feel attacked. And this can lead to serious fights with bad aftermaths.

The events I was referring to were two isolated and very specific events on the forum. Neither of them refers to this thread, nor is this thread a joke.

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Oct 4 2013, 04:20 PM
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Rudy
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 04:50 PM


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Perry
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 06:24 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 2 hours, 4 minutes ago)
Thank you for the post. Spaz quite obviously deserves the spot he has from the feedback this thread has generated, but I should point out curiously that your post about the current moderator hiring process does conflict with what Tessou posted on Facebook. According to Tessou there was no thought whatsoever put into any individual's skills, specialties or expertise upon bringing them on board, and that all was merely the criteria of being active members and being level-headed. If the latter is so, Spaz most certainly deserves his spot... though there may be some question as to other staff in the 'level-headed' category. If there is in fact some level of specialization among the 'global moderators', and that they're expected to cover some specific subset of the forums as a priority, then my initial postings were not as misguided as Tessou had led me to believe.

The 2012 April Prank was in planning stage as far as back the end of 2011 if I remember correcty. Tessou and I had an extensive discussion on what should happen during my absence (I was in China for 24 days between March and April 2012) So even though it seemed like a "joke" it wasn't, as some events were already planned out in advanced. Though, we did not discuss who will be the new moderators prior to April 1st.

After April 1st, we went through all the moderators Tessou selected and took out the ones we didn't unilaterally agree on. I had complete trust in Tessou for selecting those moderators, but his criterion for selecting moderators is slightly different than mine, and that's fine. There was never a guide to follow when picking new moderators. My criterion is more towards how mature the individual is prior to being selected. I'd rather trade knowledgeable with maturity. But that's just my standards.

A moderator doesn't have to be the best in knowledge. As long as they are learning with a open attitude while keeping the balance of the forums, that's really more than I can ask for.
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s12drifter
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 06:44 PM


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I believe IDW has spoken.

user posted image

This post has been edited by s12drifter on Oct 4 2013, 06:55 PM
Shirogane
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 08:03 PM


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QUOTE (s12drifter @ 1 hour, 18 minutes ago)
I believe IDW has spoken.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3319/3443930495_1e8a5b2bb7.jpg

Jesus Christ, you're no better. facepalm.gif

QUOTE (Dorifuta)
Bullshit. To the best of my knowledge, everybody here represents themselves as their own person. What you see is what you get.

Do speak for yourself when for every single post I see relates to the illegal activity of street racing, such as the Manhattan thread. Or do I need to remind you of your banter about what could have been a dangerous use of your Genesis?

This post has been edited by Shirogane on Oct 4 2013, 08:05 PM
Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 4 2013, 09:16 PM


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QUOTE (Dorifuta @ 4 hours, 22 minutes ago)
I think I'm beginning to understand the method to your madness, and it's borderlining on genius|insane. If this thread got locked and or you got "muted" for a few weeks, none of this would have played out the way it did. How much were you counting on this thread remaining open?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I wasn't. From the very start I firmly believed that my fate and the fate of this discussion lay solely in the hands of the forum community at large. If it had been closed, that would have been that. It remaining open just means it's kept going.

I have been 'accused' by a few parties both on and off the forums of pulling this as some sort of stunt, or asking what my ulterior motive is. I don't have one, and this isn't a stunt or a ploy. I have meant everything I've said, and the original objective of this thread was exactly what I laid out in post #1. If you read any further into it than what I've posted, you're inventing something that doesn't exist.

QUOTE (Perry @ 2 hours, 48 minutes ago)
The 2012 April Prank was in planning stage as far as back the end of 2011 if I remember correcty. Tessou and I had an extensive discussion on what should happen during my absence (I was in China for 24 days between March and April 2012) So even though it seemed like a "joke" it wasn't, as some events were already planned out in advanced. Though, we did not discuss who will be the new moderators prior to April 1st.

After April 1st, we went through all the moderators Tessou selected and took out the ones we didn't unilaterally agree on. I had complete trust in Tessou for selecting those moderators, but his criterion for selecting moderators is slightly different than mine, and that's fine. There was never a guide to follow when picking new moderators. My criterion is more towards how mature the individual is prior to being selected. I'd rather trade knowledgeable with maturity. But that's just my standards.

A moderator doesn't have to be the best in knowledge. As long as they are learning with a open attitude while keeping the balance of the forums, that's really more than I can ask for.

Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate it. So both of you were correct in what you said, and there was just a final selection process where he selected moderators based on his criteria and you approved them on yours. That makes sense. smile.gif
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PWNatorPWNED
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 10:41 PM


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On a more serious note though, I believe that both sides of the debate/argument is at fault here.

1. Nomake, you shouldn't have blown your top like that in the first place. Like they say, forgive and forget. Besides, a moderator title is just that, a title. It wouldn't hold any real significance in the real world. And like kyonpalm said, he wasn't hijacking the thread. The definition of hijack is, "illegally seize (an aircraft, ship, or vehicle) in transit and force it to go to a different destination or use it for one's own purposes". Unless you think a thread is a vehicle, your use of the word was invalid.

2. Kyonpalm, imo you sorta escalated the argument with your comments toward Nomake as well. Even though I just joined and you're a veteran here, we can just continue this flame war. I don't know about you guys/girls, but I have a life. I want to live it to the fullest without thinking of this incident.

That's what I had in mind.
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Posted on Oct 4 2013, 11:27 PM


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You're all nerds.

-thread
Rudy
Posted on Oct 4 2013, 11:56 PM


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Nomake Wan
  Posted on Oct 5 2013, 01:18 AM


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QUOTE (PWNatorPWNED @ 2 hours, 37 minutes ago)
On a more serious note though, I believe that both sides of the debate/argument is at fault here.

1. Nomake, you shouldn't have blown your top like that in the first place. Like they say, forgive and forget. Besides, a moderator title is just that, a title. It wouldn't hold any real significance in the real world. And like kyonpalm said, he wasn't hijacking the thread. The definition of hijack is, "illegally seize (an aircraft, ship, or vehicle) in transit and force it to go to a different destination or use it for one's own purposes". Unless you think a thread is a vehicle, your use of the word was invalid.

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I don't find that anyone is really 'at fault' since that depends on what you're attempting to find fault in.

Since you seem to want to argue semantics instead of continuing the discussion in a proper manner, I will indulge your desire by saying that a thread on a discussion board is, in fact, a vehicle--it is a vehicle for the exchange of ideas. By turning a thread away from its original direction and/or focusing it on something other than the original intended subject it is being hijacked.

Not that the semantics should matter--'thread hijack' is a commonplace turn of phrase and has been for what, over a decade? You're newish here so I'll leave it at that, but I do ask politely that you not muddy an already murky topic.
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