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> Political Discussion, Election is over, post rare policies
 
Who shall be King?
MAGA [ 12 ]  [70.59%]
Hilldawg [ 3 ]  [17.65%]
Some third party bullshit [ 2 ]  [11.76%]
Total Votes: 17
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RalliKai
Posted on Dec 22 2016, 05:18 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 8 hours, 26 minutes ago)
Well, I assume it had something to do with what Trump himself said it was...

So here, he says he doesn't want lobbyists, because lobbyists are bad, mmkay?

Here he says that it's the constitutional amendment to impose term limits on Congress (but not the Supreme Court?).

And finally, you have Trump admitting that it's all bullshit anyway.

Yep. Real bang-up job.

A presidential candidate overreaching on promises to get votes? How unprecedented. I wanted Rubio or Kasich for the longest time and didn't break for Trump until the final few weeks leading to the election. I didn't think he'd strip the bureaucracy down cause he's not a small government conservative. I'd love to see term limits on Congress and atleast an age limit for the SCJ but not expecting it. Granted, I didn't expect Trump to win either.

@MV88: Unless we find ourselves defending the Baltics from whole divisions of Russian T-90s, I just don't understand the reason to maintain such a large force of MBTs. I thought accelerating the development and upgrade of current Abrams to the M1A3 could substitute for stalling production. The M1A2 SEP can certainly take on any tank North Korea has and even China.

The F-35 was flawed from the beginning and always believed the DoD should have gone for 2 different airframes. The F-35 as it is for the Air Force, and a twin-engine derivative for the Navy. You're right in that the F-15, 16, A-10 and F/A-18 are getting worn out. Hell, the Marine Corps has had to cannibalize Hornets in the boneyard just to keep there F/A-18Cs still flyable. That needs to stop. I also thought Gates' decision to halt F-22 production was a mistake where we should have built it to around 280 aircraft.
Tessou
Posted on Dec 22 2016, 11:14 PM


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QUOTE (RalliKai @ 5 hours, 56 minutes ago)
I didn't think he'd strip the bureaucracy down cause he's not a small government conservative.

Trump isn't a conservative, either. He's more or less a populist (depending on the decade), which is partly the reason why he drummed up so many middle class blue collar votes.
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RalliKai
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 06:45 AM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ 7 hours, 30 minutes ago)
Trump isn't a conservative, either. He's more or less a populist (depending on the decade), which is partly the reason why he drummed up so many middle class blue collar votes.

That's who I was referring to. tongue.gif Sorry for not clarifying.
Tessou
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 06:52 AM


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I was clarifying that he's not a small business conservative, or even a conservative at all. He was widely criticized by the GOP during his campaign for not being "conservative enough".
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 09:13 AM


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I personally believe that there is a huge difference between "overreaching" and "flat-out lying to get gullible voters energized and then drop their dumb asses once I've clinched it," but hey. Like I said before, maybe I'm totally wrong about my analysis of his actions leading up to the election. Maybe I'm totally wrong about how he's gonna cut the EPA, the FCC and plenty of other agencies and set us back 5 decades in scientific progress and human rights. Maybe I've totally misread his absolutely disgusting bunch of cabinet members and the massive shift about to occur in the judicial and legislative branches.

We'll find out soon enough. I've got "I told you so" cannons locked and loaded and I pray, with tears in my eyes, that I never have to use them.

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MidnightViper88
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 09:49 AM


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QUOTE (RalliKai @ Yesterday, 9:18 PM)
A-10


I did not mention the A-10, but that is actually an indispensable asset in the niche of air-to-surface/anti-armor aircraft, advanced technology be damned. There's nothing like it that can both make it rain fire and take fire with its reliable and durable airframe. Not many planes retain flight capability when shot to hell.

QUOTE (Tessou @ Today, 10:52 AM)
I was clarifying that he's not a small business conservative, or even a conservative at all. He was widely criticized by the GOP during his campaign for not being "conservative enough".


He was once a Democrat's best friend...until he took over the Republican party and ran against the Democrats. Half of Republicans didn't even give a shit that he wasn't Conservative at all anyway.
Tessou
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 01:03 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 3 hours, 50 minutes ago)
We'll find out soon enough. I've got "I told you so" cannons locked and loaded and I pray, with tears in my eyes, that I never have to use them.

I think that's a little arrogant to be throwing around constantly.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Dec 23 2016, 05:59 PM


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I think you are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to disregard it.

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Tessou
Posted on Dec 24 2016, 01:05 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Yesterday, 9:59 PM)
I think you are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to disregard it.

Your position allows you to do that. Mine doesn't.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Dec 24 2016, 04:12 PM


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What are our 'positions' exactly, and how do they relate either to my praying I never have to say "I told you so" or to the freedom of expression in general?

Basically, your nebulous statement could use some clarification.

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Tessou
Posted on Dec 24 2016, 09:45 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 5 hours, 33 minutes ago)
What are our 'positions' exactly, and how do they relate either to my praying I never have to say "I told you so" or to the freedom of expression in general?

Basically, your nebulous statement could use some clarification.


Nebulous? I thought my position as administrator was more than enough to understand. I read everything, in every subforum here, every day. I don't like passing off anybody's words as something to disregard, as I feel it devalues them, even if I don't personally like the person or their viewpoint (which doesn't apply here because I like you). When I did so in the past, it ended up biting me in the ass pretty hard.

It's not about your freedom of expression. It's a personal view that all voices should be heard, and I will happily do so.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Dec 25 2016, 12:34 AM


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There is a difference between paying attention to every post and actively promoting or decrying every post. One is because you are a studious and engaged forum administrator. The other is...well, let's just leave it at it has nothing to do with one's position as administrator, and thus is by no means related to the comment in question.

Even as admin, you are free to disregard someone's opinion if you do not agree with it. Disregarding it does not cause the opinion to magically vanish from the forum, nor does it silence either the person giving the opinion nor those who choose not to disregard it. Only by stepping in and making commentary would make any difference, and that would only happen because you have something to say. If you don't have anything to say--either due to lack of opinion or actively disregarding the opinion--your position of admin does not necessitate posting regardless. Nor does disregarding the opinion necessitate that you erase the post or warn the member (or both), unless they have actually violated one of the forum guidelines or the ToS.

Nice try Tessou, but in biology class, I'd give you a butt minus.
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Tessou
Posted on Dec 25 2016, 01:35 PM


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Did Xiao hack your account to post that last bit? laugh.gif

The last time I made a comment about what drives my decision to post or not post (or "stepping in"), I was rained on with the hot fire by our dear friend Logan510. I'm open to the idea of having my mind changed by the discussion here. It doesn't help me to only read pro-Trump stuff. If this was an echo chamber, it would serve no purpose.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Dec 25 2016, 02:16 PM


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Nah, the last comment was because in my Christmas-Eve-buzzed state I couldn't get the FLAT BUNS jingle out of my head. It had to be posted.

Anyway, important lesson here...you can't please everyone, so trying to base decisions on pleasing Logan510 is silly! Still, doesn't change the fact that our positions as member an administrator have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

And definitely agreed with that last bit. It's why I haven't unfriended anyone for political crap. I have my opinions, other people have their opinions, but how am I supposed to get the whole picture unless I hear it all? Id rather form my opinions based on hearing all the arguments than having them filtered out beforehand. smile.gif

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APX
Posted on Dec 26 2016, 12:31 AM


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Did xiao... post a fucking response with no xiao-isms?!?!?

Fucking christmas miracle mate.
Tessou
Posted on Jan 8 2017, 10:19 PM


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Clapper released the official intelligence assessment on Russian hacking efforts during the election. Did any of you read it?
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Jan 8 2017, 10:52 PM


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I had not read it yet, but it's only 25 pages, so I'll give it a squiz now. I'm not sure why this is in Political Discussion, but fuck it, you're the admin.

Here's the direct link to the PDF for those interested in reading it as well.

EDIT: Finished reading it. Says pretty much as expected, and doesn't overreach like certain people would (for instance, explicitly refuses to make claims about the actual amount of influence the campaign had on the US election's outcome). However, while certainly an interesting read, it's too bad they didn't go into detail in places they could have (for instance, we already know what links Guccifer to Russia's Fancy Bear hacking group, so they could have included that). It's also too bad that so much information is actually classified. Without the supporting evidence, it's just...well, not likely to sway anyone.

And, of course, the only person it could potentially sway has already just shrugged his shoulders and gone "so what," so that's that.

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Jan 10 2017, 02:42 AM
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Tessou
Posted on Jan 11 2017, 06:37 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Jan 9 2017, 02:52 AM)
I'm not sure why this is in Political Discussion, but fuck it, you're the admin.

An assessment of Russian hacking of the 2016 National Election, which has been a major (if not leading) talking point in the media for two months, has nothing to do with politics?

There's also the alleged leaked intel document showcasing Trump taking trips to Russia for illicit (illegal?) activities. Debunked ten ways to Sunday, but it was certainly interesting seeing which outlets would take the bait and run it as a headline anyway.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Jan 11 2017, 06:59 PM


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I'd like to see where it was debunked, actually. I don't believe anything about it, whether it's that it happened or not or that /pol/ was behind it or not, mostly because there hasn't been any fact to base it on in the first place. We have a 35-page PDF that's just photos of a printed paper. As far as I know, that's the only 'evidence' there is of anything. If you have more evidence that's actually evidence, I'd love to see it.

And on that note, I hope that those of you in support of Trump watched his 'news conference' today. If you did not, here is the full transcript: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/polit...transcript.html

As someone who has not supported Trump since the beginning, and who has seen through his gaslighting since the beginning, I ask you all: do you still support this man? Do you still believe anything that comes out of his mouth? Are you at all regretting the decision you made at the polls in November?

I'm afraid I just cannot understand anyone who supports him. I didn't understand it at the beginning, I didn't understand it when his staff had to take Twitter away from him, I didn't understand it after reading the transcripts for the debates, I didn't understand it on election day, and I don't understand it after today's conference. It doesn't make any sense. So, please, enlighten me. Is he still the man you wholeheartedly put your faith in last November?
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kyonpalm
  Posted on Jan 11 2017, 08:07 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 1 hour, 2 minutes ago)
I'd like to see where it was debunked, actually. I don't believe anything about it, whether it's that it happened or not or that /pol/ was behind it or not, mostly because there hasn't been any fact to base it on in the first place. We have a 35-page PDF that's just photos of a printed paper. As far as I know, that's the only 'evidence' there is of anything. If you have more evidence that's actually evidence, I'd love to see it.

Anons have confirmed the details of the events described were a fake story some /pol/lack wrote up around November pretty much verbatim, AFAIK.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 1 hour, 2 minutes ago)
And on that note, I hope that those of you in support of Trump watched his 'news conference' today. If you did not, here is the full transcript: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/polit...transcript.html

I have.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 1 hour, 2 minutes ago)
As someone who has not supported Trump since the beginning, and who has seen through his gaslighting since the beginning, I ask you all: do you still support this man? Do you still believe anything that comes out of his mouth? Are you at all regretting the decision you made at the polls in November?

Insofar as he is our president-elect and was, in my opinion, an infinitely better option than Hillary,

-I do
-Not any less after today
-Not at all

What would I have to regret anyway? He's not even in office yet. As you've said elsewhere, "see you in 2017" (well, later in 2017 now). ;^)
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Jan 11 2017, 08:47 PM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 40 minutes, 2 seconds ago)
Anons have confirmed the details of the events described were a fake story some /pol/lack wrote up around November pretty much verbatim, AFAIK.

Insofar as he is our president-elect and was, in my opinion, an infinitely better option than Hillary,

-I do
-Not any less after today
-Not at all

What would I have to regret anyway? He's not even in office yet. As you've said elsewhere, "see you in 2017" (well, later in 2017 now). ;^)

Do you have any evidence of this? I saw the thread on /pol/ and it didn't have any evidence that would confirm or deny a damn thing. It was just "here's a thing where some random anon said he said something to someone in November with no context" and then HOLY SHIT /POL/ WUZ CIA AND SHIT. That's all there was. If there was actual hard evidence, I missed it in the cesspool of shitposting. As far as what I've actually been able to find, there is no evidence on either side. As always, I don't have eyes everywhere, so there's a damn good chance I missed something and if so I'd love to see it.

And yes, see you later this year indeed.
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Tessou
Posted on Jan 11 2017, 09:46 PM


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The "Pissgate" document that was given to various #nevertrump figures before ending up on McCain's desk does not represent what a classified document and/or any CIA document would look or read like. The classification caveat used, "SECRET/SENSITIVE SOURCE" is completely invalid, incorrectly written even if it was valid, and has never been used by any intelligence agency. There is no intel field classification, which tells me the information was gleaned from absolutely nothing. That told me that it was a fabrication, before reading any of the contents. If it was "leaked", it wouldn't look like that at all.

As for the press conference, I think Trump was out of line on a few points and dodged some questions that I wanted to hear answers on. He claimed almost nobody wants to see his tax returns even though a large horde of people (myself included) do. Did he handle the CNN representative well? No, he didn't. He was disrespectful for a personal reason. He can't be dealing with foreign powers like some sort of hot shit gunslinger. His first year is going to be heavily scrutinized, and rightfully so. I voted for him, I'm rooting for him, but I am always looking at this skeptically. I want to give him the chance to back up the rhetoric and promises like I did with Obama.
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MidnightViper88
Posted on Jan 12 2017, 10:31 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 12:47 AM)
Do you have any evidence of this? I saw the thread on /pol/ and it didn't have any evidence that would confirm or deny a damn thing. It was just "here's a thing where some random anon said he said something to someone in November with no context" and then HOLY SHIT /POL/ WUZ CIA AND SHIT. That's all there was. If there was actual hard evidence, I missed it in the cesspool of shitposting. As far as what I've actually been able to find, there is no evidence on either side. As always, I don't have eyes everywhere, so there's a damn good chance I missed something and if so I'd love to see it.

The thing about the /pol/ post is that it's a surreal level of hilarity. Prefaced with the obvious statement that things on 4chan are hard to verify with the imageboard's inherent anonymity, where it's completely possible some anon is just trolling a troll report. But assuming that it was a legit post and is told of truth, then it's weird that in the context of fake news being rampant in the media over the past month or so, that someone in the media AND the federal intelligence community ran with a story that appears to have an apparent /b/-style level of humor without vetting it. Even if the post is just a bluff, there's still no evidence that shows that anyone ever vetted the leak for credibility. Either way, the post struck a chord somewhere, these news outlets are embarrassed to hell about it, trying to distance themselves from the story and taking shots at each other over a difference in specifications, probably because they knew or now know it was fake and yet still ran with it for some arbitrary coverage attention and/or pushed agenda.

Who knew it was this easy to set fire to America.

This post has been edited by MidnightViper88 on Jan 12 2017, 10:31 AM
Tessou
Posted on Jan 12 2017, 01:38 PM


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The file originated sometime late last year, high probability from the UK. Still questionable if this 4chan user had much to do with it as there is no proof available on that end (and by their own admission). There is a lead on a marketing firm in the UK that has a history of creating smear campaigns, but it's not concretely linked to this file, so I'm not giving it too much credence until I know more.

If this was actually taken from hidden cameras, I have to ask why the complete document doesn't have a SIGINT and/or ELINT caveat on it. Otherwise this should be a HUMINT caveat file.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Jan 12 2017, 02:11 PM


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Yeah... so I'm gonna go with this whole thing is just BS through-and-through. I hope BuzzFeed crashes and burns for their hubris.
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