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So here in New york were starting to grow and develop an offline scene, and I was thinking about hosting a tournament at our local arcade. We do have players of all kinds of skills, full tuned and not full tuned. So because of that, I was thinking of a few stipulations to implement into the tournament.

so me, as the Tournament organizer, would build up two identical cars, with identical tunes (full spec 1 2 3 or 4) , and have it not known to anyone what the car or tune is until the day of the tournament when they have to race in them.

The racing format will be 2 out of 3. Each player chooses one course (direction, wet/dry, night/day) and if it has to come down to a 3rd race, the players will try to agree on one course and direction, if they can not agree, it will go to random select.

I feel this format balances everything out to newer players who naturally have the skill to adapt and control a car, but don't have the time to grind out everything with their fulltuned car.

For the less experienced player, the appeal is that everyone is closer to stock and these are new mechanics that you have to learn on the fly day of.

for the more experienced player, the appeal is that half of the battle is course knowledge, the more you know whats coming up, the more you can predict how youre suppose to take the turn.


What do you guys think about this tournament format?

This post has been edited by ARMA on Mar 17 2015, 03:04 PM

For a tourney idea for all skills...this isn't that bad. Having people gather within their cars specs are good, the tune up effects don't really come into play unless at Spec 5...or was it Spec 4 last 2 parts?

However I would urge for the higher specs (I say 3 and up) to always have random courses, rather then agreement, lest they choose their main courses every single time. It doesn't have to be the random choice, have a hat with the courses or a random number picker from 1 to...whatever how many courses there are. Then choose conditions with a coin flip.

It adds a bit of dynamic into the tourney and it proves who is the better overall driver, well in my eyes. Oh yeah one more thing, make sure that the people don't have to pay for the games and have everyone have the force quit option on, makes things smoother.

Thanks for the input! much appreciated

For reference, having 1 part into spec 5 brings out full spec handling.
At spec 4, a car is able to grip without losing too much speed but will lose alot of speed when drifting.

I full tuned 6 cars so im familiar with the specs. Just because its easier, I was thinking of landing the cars at either full spec 1 or full spec 2 just because it'd mean less time requried from me to put the cars together. The point of this is to see what player can adapt to the car the best and do the best in a battle vs an opponent with the same advantage/disadvantage

That's a unique setup for the tournament and sounds fun. Are you planning on making it a boost on tournament or boost off?

Actually that makes me wish I could fly out to NY for that tournament, haha.

Arguably the main issue is if you choose a car that some people may have already gotten used to. It would be a slight advantage to them, but I don't think it'll be too much of an issue compared to those who understand the physics of D7.

This post has been edited by Agent556 on Mar 17 2015, 09:36 PM

I think were going to be doing boost off, even though I love how they handled the boost in this game, the more fair option and true testament of skill is boost off.



That's a very good point.
I'm thinking of picking a car that alot of competitive players wouldnt choose and that I havent seen anyone drive yet (our scene is pretty small)


hows the scene in cali? how many people do you get on your busiest day?

you guys have ID8 right?!

There's a good scene in Cali but we haven't had any tournaments yet. No idea why but that's what it is right now.

We usually get around more then 10 people on a more robust tournament but it can get smaller then that. Make sure you announce it about a month before.

here what i think:

all stock, full random done

this isnt like wangan where u can just buy a ft car & wing it for a win, since it takes forever to get full spec (plus its hard.to buy a full spec unlike wangan, where ft cars are widely available everywhere)

trust me u have ppl from different skill levels want to join a tourny, this is your best option, also id stock cars feel just like a full spec car unlike wangan

While I don't think it's a bad idea because of inaccessibility just like you said, I'll have to disagree about that part about ID stock cars feeling like full spec cars; at least for D7/D8. The physics systems are completely different for these two games between their stock and full tune counterparts. The skillset needed to use a a stock car and full tune car effectively are totally different in D8/D7 to the point where I would argue that they're like totally different games.

This post has been edited by SonicSP on Mar 22 2015, 05:34 PM

S2000 only, no items, final desti-...

I think Full tuned S2K should only be used, since it has no weak course and it will be all on the drivers.

Well if want to force people to use a certain car that they may or may not like, or even have, thus decreasing the number of people who join the car only tourney, sure go ahead.

But as the car itself...well the AE86s own them at this point.

You know, how about providing communal full tune cards for people to use? Give people a choice between using their own cards or use an available full tune card.

This should solve the issue of people not having full tune cars of their own, but since there aren't too many machines in the arcade anyways, you'll probably won't need more than four for any given time anyways since there are only four machines (or whatever number there is in the arcade)

Let people use their own personal cards if they want, but if they haven't put in the the investment to full tune their own car yet, they'll still have a chance to go for it and fight on fairly event ground even against other players that have full tune cars. You'll need to watch over the cards so they don't missing or stolen but since there's only four, it shouldn't be too hard to manage.


=========

In regards to the actual cards, AE86s are probably good in the "no weak course" aspect. But having a standard full tune car isn't a bad idea either.

This post has been edited by SonicSP on Mar 22 2015, 07:24 PM

Well, I already bought the two tournament cards already, and got them both tuned to the specific spec (lets call it spec X) both of the cars are identical, and both of the cards are full tuned spec X.

The only thing that seems unfair about running a tournament with full tuned cars, is that whoever plays more will win, there is no "X-factor" of natural skill. I'm the best player in the area, but thats really ONLY because i play alot more than anyone else. Im not entering this tournament, but I think the way I have it formatted really evaluates someones natural and instinctual skills to adapt to a car better than their opponent. If I were to run a tournament with only full tuned cars, I would only get a few entrants because some people don't have the time to grind out most of the maps and run really fast times, but some people feel that they have can adapt and learn on their feet better than other players.

I plan on recording at least the top 3 matches, and will post them. The tournament is scheduled to take place 3 weeks from now

That's one way to put it, but that's probably going to happen regardless of what specs you use.

Those who play more are always going to have an advantage than those that play less since things like course and physics knowledge are going be in play. Not only that, but these factors are huge in races even discounting specs (though I do agree that the gap would be less).

Still, I guess using given cards would make things feel more fair and equal and would attract the larger number of participants.

This post has been edited by SonicSP on Mar 24 2015, 02:27 AM

So how did the tournament go? Has it been held yet?

when and where?

Yeah where in NY is there ID7??

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I ran the tournament at Nanuet arcade, and it was very boring. I had two full spec 2 Evos and when the tournament got to the top 4 racers, it was impossible to pass anyone who had any concept of blocking down. I think if I got the cars to somewhere in spec 5 we would have had a more interesting battle for 1st place, not just a drag race to see who can win off the line.

You live and you learn, hopefully no one will make the same mistake I did.

I'll completely disagree on you with that for D6-8. Yes tuning is less important in IDAS than Wangan but the handling difference is still like night and day. Transitioning between the D7 pre-spec 5 physics and post spec 5 physics actually slowed most players down before they learned to adjust their techniques and playstyle, which shows how divergent they are.

You barely need to use the brake or use BC prior to Spec 4 due to the auto slowdown, whereas you will need to do this a lot post Spec 5.

For reference, we had a discussion about this in another thread on this very Arcade section yesterday. It was either in Post Your Day or Introduction D8 threads. We talked about how D5 was the last game where the physics between stock and FT felt similar.

I disagree with this as well. In the field of statistics, randomization as proof of skill would only work when you have a large sample size (basic rule of statistics: larger sample size is always better). If we were to have say, 30 or more races between two people and one won a lot more than the other, then that would be a statistical significant result but this isn't a practical thing to do for a tournament. Three battles would be too much left to chance without giving a chance for averages to even out.

I think the TC's suggestion of courses is good. It's not a perfect solution of course but choosing your best course I think is something players would want to do. Agreement on the neutral ground if it came to a third round I think would be a great idea for both players that chose courses that they both would be relatively comfortable with (and they both would know what the other's home course is by then so they can avoid that). The lesser the amount of randomness in a small sample size scenario, the better. Since the split of course selection is close to 50-50, I think it is quite fair.

For online battles for us online players, learning how to beat opponents at courses outside our home courses is important to progress at higher ranks of play since you cannot progress without a high win-to-lose ratio. Great players will need to be fast in as many courses as possible. Choosing your home course is far from a guarantee from a win when fighting against good players. The server also tries to keep course selection as close to 50-50 chance as possible throughout your card's online lifetime.

Also, I don't think Force Quit works in multiplayer races. It's only for single player modes I believe. I tried doing it once and it didn't work.

This post has been edited by SonicSP on May 28 2015, 11:56 PM

Hm...well maybe I am pulling from my pool of knowledge, I do understand where you are getting from though. For the course selection though, I was trying to add that random factor into the tourneys...I guess trying to pull away from favorites or something? I do not know how to explain this but it is my personal belief that a good racer can perform good on all stages. Of course there are people who are aces in a certain course and way (heck, I am trying to restore my pride as the Sadamine UH Specialist) but then again...that is my response.

Force quit? Oh I mean like after a race you choose a course for TA and instant force quit. I meant it like that.

Yeah I think a good racer should perform well in most places too but I think the huge number of courses in the game (each direction counts as its own thing) means that there will always be loopholes with so few races. I think the all random thing would work better in like a "league" format than a "knockout playoff" format.

And that that Force Quit cannot be done in multiplayer modes, I tried it before. I haven't tried of when players press the buttons at the same time or something like that, but when I press it alone in a multiplayer battle nothing will happen even with the setting on. Has somebody gotten it to work before in multiplayer?

This post has been edited by SonicSP on May 29 2015, 02:39 AM

This tournament idea is making me want to have one of my own, but I'm never good with these things, plus the only IDAS8 machines in my area are at the round one bowling place and I think I'd need permission to have that kind of gathering. Not to mention I doubt any players would come, but it sounds fun. I've been wanting to race other players so badly, and figure out how braking and accelerator work/shifting affects my times and my drifting or if the game is just ft and correct shifting = win. I honestly hope it's more intricate than just having a full tuned car.

One think I do know is I HATE Iroka (that's the one with all the hairpins you can jump off of right?) I crashed too many times to count and couldn't get into a good rhythm between my shifting and my speed/braking before the next hairpin, and jumping off the slopes didn't even give me any advantage. If I were in a tournament id find that track to be the hardest inherently and maybe Akagi downhill and Usui (idk what the UC UUC or whatever means but I choose the option where downhill goes.) to be the easiest ones.

I don't even know if arcades are still around in SoCal anymore, and if they exist, whether or not they'd have tournaments and IDAS8 (or any other. I've only played 8.)

Sorry your tournament turned out like that OP I was hoping for something epic you would never get tired of recounting.

FT cars are much more powerful than lower tuned cars. It is very hard to win with lower tunes especially if the tuning gap is huge. Non FT-cars lose a lot of speed when cornering. On the flipside, you'll need to readjust your gameplay style once you hit FT in D8 though the change is more gradual compared to D7 so it's not as big of a shock.

In a battle between FT cars, skills plays a much more important role than car selection. They are many different techniques available in this game, and each technique's effectiveness varies on a course by course basis so knowing a lot of techniques help you. Full Tune is when the real physics of the game is unlocked.

For those of us who have and play online, it is important for us to full tune the car as soon as possible as most people online use full tune cars. After that, it mostly a matter of skill with a few other variables mixed in.

Also just for information's sake:

OB = Outbound
IB = Inbound

CCW = Counter Clock-Wise
CW= Clock-Wise

OB/IB are for courses that contain both downhill and uphill sections, so it's named after whether you are going towards or away of the mountain. The other two are for courses that have more than one lap.

This post has been edited by SonicSP on Jun 1 2015, 01:31 AM

I'll keep that in mind, thanks Sonic! Ahh if only I could play online now.