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> 2017 Toyota 86 (The "FR-S" in Disguise), Sorry but its not a GT86
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Mar 17 2016, 11:45 PM


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Toyota is now bringing out the 86 and making it stand out from the FR-Ses in the US. It looks good imo.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-toyota...st-look-review/

More news on this next week at the New York International Auto show
Sensation!
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 01:32 AM


As expected of country grown vegetables
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Yeah I saw this earlier. Car looks like total ass with that facelift.
sideways
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 02:07 AM


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QUOTE
toyota has also given the car a significant face-lift featuring new front and rear fascias, an updated interior, suspension tweaks, and more power.


QUOTE
suspension tweaks, and more power



QUOTE
and more power.


user posted image

QUOTE
he car’s 2.0-liter flat-four engine gets a power bump to 205 hp and 156 lb-ft of torque, which is 5 hp and 5 lb-ft more than the pre-face-lift car


user posted image

This post has been edited by sideways on Mar 18 2016, 02:08 AM
xiao
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 04:33 AM


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QUOTE
face-lift

So how is this not Scion again? user posted image

QUOTE
205 hp

What is this... I don't even...

user posted image

So wait wait wait... back to Toyota not being Scion Space Invaders... are the Japs gonna get the face-lift too because lolwut!? I mean I don't see anything on the actual Japanese site?? ermm2.gif

It's okay, I can say 'Japs' because I'm in Japanese too~ awesome.gif

This post has been edited by xiao on Mar 18 2016, 04:37 AM
RalliKai
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 04:55 AM


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205 hp must be muscle-car horsepower to that Toyota boardroom. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by RalliKai on Mar 18 2016, 04:57 AM
Sensation!
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 07:51 AM


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205HP is quite good for a car that weighs as much as the FRS.
Too bad it's not actually making 205 at the wheels.

I think that's the funny part with comparing the FRS to the old turbo Silvias. The tidbit here is that those factory HP numbers on the silvia were very close to what those cars actually put to the wheels.

Last I checked, the FRS was a 165whp car.

Am I a FRS/BRZ hater? In a way, I sort of am, I want to like those cars, I have good things to say about them, but that engine really kills it for me.
In the 4 or so years its been out, ive heard nothing but criticism regarding the powertrain on that car, and that's both engine and transmission.
I hear the FA20 engines have their share of problems on their WRX iteration as well, it's certainly lacking enough in R&D that Subaru chose to still use the EJ25 over the FA20 on the current STI.

What a shame, Toyota should've ditched the partnership with Subaru on that project when Subaru was being so unsure of it. They should've just shoved an AR engine, mated it to a reliable and proven transmission, and called it a day.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Mar 18 2016, 07:53 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 07:53 AM


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Shut up, Fred. We all know you hate it because the lines suggest it's a FWD platform to your Art-Center-automotive-design-hopeful eyes, not anything to do with its engine. tongue.gif

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Sensation!
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 08:30 AM


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The lines and surfaces are fine, as are its proportions.
If the toyobaru twins came with an I4 option, I'd own one right now. I keep those opinions because I'm overly critical of the car, I admit it. I kept waiting for it since the first concept, they teased concept after concept, and once all the waiting was done, all the bad news just came pouring in. Yes, I ACTUALLY blame the Toyobaru twins and their general mediocrity and its translation in poor sales to the cancellation of Nissans IDX project.

Tunnel Vision much? Indeed.

Anyways, the FA20 and transmission combo (I hear conflicting reports about its transmission, the consensus is its not meant to handle more than 300whp or something) has so far made a terrible rep for the car, with at present, seemingly no way around it. It's all there is to it. It would simply be a better car if Subaru wasn't involved.

People say in 10 years, the FRS will be what the Nissan 240sx or the Honda Civic and Acura Intergra were, popular and fun to mod.

Too bad there isn't a bolt in for the car for it to make amazing power without having to address other potential weak points, ie: transmission, injectors, etc.

But, it handles great, its light and it's popular! Its the next Miata, it'll have its own racing series!

Yes, and with what factory support? The FRS guys have been begging for a spec-FRS like series. Toyota or Subaru seem like they don't care one bit.

So do you know what car I think the FRS is destined to be? the FRS is the future 350z or RX-8.
Great handling cars. Great looking cars. Great ideas. But abandoned by the enthusiast majority due to the difficulty in making them more than just nice looking cars. Bridging that difficulty is why the miata, civic, integra, 240sx's are such cult favorites.

I don't think the toyobaru twins as they are now will ever catch the cult status as those cars did. The 86 will live in the shadow of its namesake, the AE86, forever.

So if you wanna talk about even the most core ideation in its design, the FRS missed what made the AE86 so great, which was its source of inspiration. They half-assed its simplicity and paid for it in its price and fanbase.

Liking the car is difficult for me, I see its appeal and I DO still like it, but I simply find there to be more compelling choices on the market. Yes, new ones. The only thing that would absolutely rock my opinion on the Toyobarus is a spec racing series, they are the ideal cars for it and I wish it would happen.

Anyways, the facelift is ugly and forgoes one of the most recognizable aesthetic characteristics that was unique to the FRS/86 (front fascia, blended fenders to bumper was fantastic) . In its place, they tack on a huge generic grill and haphazardly tried to blend it together with the rest of the body instead of tweaking what made the original design so great.


EDIT: edited to add more talking points. Can you tell i'm very opinionated about the FRS? I'm probably tsundere for them. I have considered leasing one.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Mar 18 2016, 10:37 AM
Tessou
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 09:05 AM


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That facelift is hideous. Fuck this company.
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The Sixth Element
  Posted: Mar 18 2016, 11:10 AM


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Guess I'm the only one that doesn't hate the face lift. mellow.gif

Welp... time to talk to the former Scion racing team members how thinks about this

(PS: its not Ken Gushi. I wish it was.......)
Shirogane
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 11:18 AM


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That facelift made the Subaru BRZ look subtle. I guess catfish inspiration is here to stay...
Tessou
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 12:07 PM


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QUOTE (The Sixth Element @ 57 minutes, 22 seconds ago)
Welp... time to talk to the former Scion racing team members how thinks about this

I know this wasn't at all the intention of your post, but I read it like this.

user posted image
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kyonpalm
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 01:40 PM


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That facelift is really bad. Not as bad as the 370Z compared to the 350, but still bad.
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The Sixth Element
  Posted: Mar 18 2016, 02:59 PM


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QUOTE (Tessou @ 2 hours, 51 minutes ago)
I know this wasn't at all the intention of your post, but I read it like this.

http://img.ifcdn.com/images/a67cf6a48bc948...6add8e2e7_1.gif

Lol!!! that was pretty good laugh2.gif

Lets see if the new Supra with the BMW collaboration would look better or worse than the TOYOTA 86.
Seri
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 03:38 PM


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I'm going to be that guy here.

I actually like it.
xiao
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 03:53 PM


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As a guy that's test driven both the BRZ and the FR-S 4 times; 2 on an MT Subbie & 2 on an AT FR-S with paddle shifters (didn't even bother using 'em)...

Fred completely nailed the specs of the car in the truest way I felt when I drove it. It's a great handling car, feels peppy, but then you're like wait...... I'm going the same speed I would on my ????hp Jeep at exactly the same time interval. On a traffic light stop & go, I was seeing Altimas and Ford Fusions accelerate faster and with less engine noise. According to the guys at FT-Hachi Club Forums, the clutch is a piece of junk that breaks if you increase power by any means. The oil pan overheats & car • exprode if you switch the exhaust pipes. Stock manifold needs to be replaced with headers + cone filter, and the mufflers need more she-male porn addiction, cause the stock ones are little congested pizza dough rollers.

This is a good example of how good the platform is, but how much I wanna facepalm in the face of STi and TRD's overwhelming nonexistent update schedule:

YOUTUBE ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP-HCcX9as )

When driving it, a little voice kept drilling at the back of my head saying... this thing's a fscking Miata!? :/

...so why did I like it so much? Because it looked good! But now that the Chip Fooze engineers got high with a 3rd grade classroom after watching Alien vs Predator...... you're killing me Toyobaru! Heck the boxy FD2 looks 100-fold better than the new FR-S. pinch2.gif

@ Seri: whaaaaaaaaatt!?!?? laugh.gif

This post has been edited by xiao on Mar 18 2016, 04:33 PM
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Mar 18 2016, 04:51 PM


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QUOTE (Seri @ 1 hour, 12 minutes ago)
I'm going to be that guy here.

I actually like it.

Amen bro laugh2.gif
sideways
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 06:20 PM


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QUOTE (Sensation! @ Today, 8:51 AM)
205HP is quite good for a car that weighs as much as the FRS.

Until you realize that 17 years ago honda released a car that weighed basically the same, also had a 2 liter engine, but was making 40 more hp.

unsure.gif

Dont get me wrong- I LIKE The frs/brz/86- cept for the price, feel its a bit too high for what it is. Buuut, it couldve, and SHOULD have been *better* I think.

This post has been edited by sideways on Mar 18 2016, 06:21 PM
Tessou
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 09:28 PM


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It would have been if TRD didn't lie about their production of optional forced induction kits.
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Sensation!
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 12:18 AM


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QUOTE (sideways @ 5 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Until you realize that 17 years ago honda released a car that weighed basically the same, also had a 2 liter engine, but was making 40 more hp.

unsure.gif

Dont get me wrong- I LIKE The frs/brz/86- cept for the price, feel its a bit too high for what it is. Buuut, it couldve, and SHOULD have been *better* I think.

That was sort of the point of my post, because after all, 17 years ago, Nissan made a car that made 50hp more and weighed around the same.

Point is, S2K was actually a car that put around 210-215whp, enough for a car for that weight to be pretty fast.

FRS is a sub 165whp car. No one jokes about minivans overtaking the s2ks, but I hear plenty of it railed against the toyobarus.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Mar 19 2016, 12:23 AM
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Mar 19 2016, 01:10 AM


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I don't know why STI or TRD didn't want to touch the 86. STI might give a STI version of it, but I doubt that since its been almost 1 year and a half since they showed the STI version of the BRZ. TRD just put some suspension parts that are better than the stock suspension. Toyota and Subaru are super scummy and it leads to basically private tuners to make the car actually work and makes people to stop complaining about power and parts.
Sensation!
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 04:34 AM


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I still believe its due to the fact that they're having a hard time making the FA20 reliable on power without jacking the price of the twins too high as it then has to compete against V8 or turbo I6 alternatives.

Subaru has the best option in adapting the turbo FA20 from the WRX.
But just a reminder again that the new STI still uses the EJ engines, as do their 24hr nurburgring cars.

Both manufacturers aren't dumping R&D money into a performance FA20 engine.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Mar 19 2016, 04:34 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 08:23 AM


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Heh, so about how my Capri's power:weight is .08 and the FR-S is .06. Turbocharging ftw, not to mention being almost 400 lbs lighter... awesome.gif
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Spaz
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 10:00 AM


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TIL your Capri has better P:W than my race car. laugh2.gif

Pretty sure I have a massive gearing advantage though. tongue.gif
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 12:11 PM


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QUOTE (Spaz @ 2 hours, 11 minutes ago)
TIL your Capri has better P:W than my race car. laugh2.gif

Pretty sure I have a massive gearing advantage though. tongue.gif

And chassis, and drivetrain unless you mean your VW. tongue.gif

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