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Views: 919  ·  Replies: 13 
> Khat's 2004 Hyundai Tucson, Looking for Help
khat17
  Posted: Feb 20 2016, 05:50 PM


IDW SIMPLETON
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Hi all. Going into uncharted waters here. Never before posted in this section, but I need some help and advice.

Basically, my father was a grease monkey. He did aircraft repairs. He also did most of the work on our vehicles but I'm far away from him and can't get any pointers now. I also hated grease. Still do. I live in a third world country where things are not as accessible as I'd like, and the price of stuff is on average 3X more than anywhere else. Sometimes buying in the USA and shipping to me is cheaper than buying locally. It's that bad.

Anyways - I got myself a 2004 Tucson and all was fine. I'll just put in an apology here - this is probably going to be long. As are a lot of my posts.......

Basically right now I'm looking for advice on a head gasket. I found 3 types and got some basic information on them:

GRAPHITE
- Most people I've spoken to compare it to the older asbestos gaskets. I was advised against it. Was told that you can use it if you're doing performance stuff, but expect it to blow.

METAL (Multi Layer Steel)
- This is what I'm told to get. It's what everyone is using these days. Needs the surface to be FLAT or else it won't work properly.

COPPER
- This is used in some performance stuff and seems to be preferred, but I'm not racing and I don't think I could get this for my engine anyways.

So now. Into the long story and history.

Got the vehicle from someone very cheap. They had some............."mechanics"................that they used and were being ripped off. High cost, cheap labor, constant expenses. It started at the dealer she purchased it from. She has no car knowledge - her "mechanic" told her to buy it. Based on the information I got and what I had to do (engine change) here's the breakdown. They sold her the vehicle knowing it needed repairs. The bearings had gone bad and instead of changing the bearings and connecting rod, they only changed the bearings. As a result, it went bad again and this time worse than before. Engine replaced from G4GC to G4GF.

It was a used engine I purchased, but I got some warranty. Had some issues with it however, as the thing looks like it was soaking up mud and ended up crapping in my radiator. Had some overheating issues which finally got sorted out, but that slightly warped the head and blew the original gasket. Changed that.

Everything was going fine, but there was a noise that I couldn't figure out. Checks showed that the GC has a higher pressure oil pump than the GF because - the GC uses CVVT and the GF doesn't. So - back to the original head for the GF which had to be skimmed first.

Due to the cost of the parts locally I tried to save a bit by not changing the gasket - so now I need a new gasket. Everything else is fine mechanically, but electronically I rather the GC head. It has additional sensor connections which communicate with the ECU - and I really don't think I can purchase that ECU locally. Online I can't find that - what links I do find are over USD$200 in any case.

I'm not sure what I should do. Get the graphite one to compensate for the possible warps (even though it was skimmed) or get the MLS.

I have other issues where finding sensors and such are concerned. I have all documentation on both engines, but since I'm just going to be getting into the repairs myself I'm having a bit of trouble translating things from Torque to finding them in the manual.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks bunches.
Spaz
Posted: Feb 22 2016, 03:39 PM


I just wanna go fast
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Interesting that there's been no answer yet... Maybe peeps were just waiting for me.

Yes, MLS, if available, is the way to go. That's what the Evos come with from the factory and they hold up very well (unless your injectors keep blowing them).
khat17
  Posted: Feb 23 2016, 08:47 AM


IDW SIMPLETON
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Thanks for the reply. That's a thing? The injectors can keep blowing your gasket?

I'm gonna do some additional work and research beforehand then update as things progress.
Spaz
Posted: Feb 24 2016, 10:11 AM


I just wanna go fast
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QUOTE (khat17 @ Yesterday, 11:47 AM)
Thanks for the reply. That's a thing? The injectors can keep blowing your gasket?

Depending on the situation, yes. One of mine was flowing at 10% less than the other 3, so that cylinder ran hotter and leaner, completely trashed the fire ring on the gasket on the exhaust side. Twice, actually, before I figured it out.
khat17
  Posted: Mar 1 2016, 09:51 PM


IDW SIMPLETON
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QUOTE (Spaz @ Feb 24 2016, 10:11 AM)
Depending on the situation, yes. One of mine was flowing at 10% less than the other 3, so that cylinder ran hotter and leaner, completely trashed the fire ring on the gasket on the exhaust side. Twice, actually, before I figured it out.

Yah. That sounds epic. Glad you sorted it though.

So. As I had said before I swapped the G4Gc for a G4GF. The parts are almost identical except the CVVT. Things I've been looking for and resources I've found are below.

http://www.hyundaioemparts.com/auto-parts/...cat/engine-scat

The above link can be used to find some part information and then search on ebay. Some parts are reasonable while others are not. The water pump for example was on eBay OEM for $45 (used) while this site has it for $75 on sale down from $100 (new). All parts on the site seem to be new. They all come with manufacturer's warranty as far as I've seen.

HEAD GASKET - 22311-23700

WATER PUMP - 25100-23022 (P772 1-2)

STARTER - 36100-23060

ASSIST STRAP - 853902E100GF

One of the things I've found out which I really dislike - part numbers. I did a search for G4GF head gasket and found little to nothing about the MLS - primarily graphite. Then I found the part number and put that in - LOTS. MLS in OEM and aftermarket. Why do they make it so hard to find? The site above though - it does some nice cross-sections and makes it easy to find. The "assist strap" was near impossible to find. Didn't know the correct name either. Found it really quick on that site.
khat17
  Posted: Mar 8 2016, 06:26 PM


IDW SIMPLETON
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So. Changed the water pump. Now I just need to figure out all of the trouble codes that I'm getting. I'm honestly not sure if these are mechanical or electrical problems. I'll put the list as an attachment. You may have to download it and then open it in the browser. Just realized it gave raw code when I clicked on it from here.

This post has been edited by khat17 on Mar 8 2016, 06:27 PM

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khat17
  Posted: Mar 18 2016, 05:19 AM


IDW SIMPLETON
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Good morning all. Question. If the rings need to be changed could it cause me to sputter periodically? What's going on is at times I want to accelerate and it sputters a little before it actually goes. I already purchased a set of gaskets and seals, along with rings and pistons. I'm hoping to change those next week all being well (when I get the parts). By the way. Just for information purposes I had multiple issues where cooling is concerned. Changed a lot of hoses. Then the water pump. Then had to repair one of the pipes. It had a literal pin hole leak.

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Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 18 2016, 07:55 AM


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Pull the spark plugs and look at them. Are they covered in soot and oil? If so then yeah, your rings/valves are so bad that oil is pouring into the cylinder and fouling them. A compression test can help determine which is at fault.

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khat17
  Posted: Mar 18 2016, 06:53 PM


IDW SIMPLETON
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Will do that over the weekend all being well. The valves too? Though those were just for intake/gas and exhaust?

Already ordered the rings/pistons. Plan to change them regardless. I have no oil leaks but notice that the oil level drops and I have to top-up.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 19 2016, 08:10 AM


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That's the thing. If you're getting way too much oil into the cylinder then either the piston rings are shot (and thus crankcase oil is being forced into the compression chamber from below) or the valve seals are shot (and thus oil is leaking from the valvetrain into the compression chamber from above). That's all you can know from just pulling the plugs and finding them soaked in oil and caked in soot.

If you do a compression test you can find cylinders that are not within spec. This will pin down which cylinder is bad, but won't tell you whether it's rings or valves. For that you squirt a little oil into the cylinder and re-run the test. If the oil improves the reading, it's rings (because the oil is helping the rings seal better). If it doesn't, it's valves (because squirting oil onto the piston won't change what's going on with the valvetrain).
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khat17
  Posted: Mar 19 2016, 09:15 AM


IDW SIMPLETON
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OK. Thanks for that N1. The stuff I ordered comes with a lot of different seals and gaskets - so once I'm done it should be fine. I'll probably pick up the compression test kit. It's like USD$30 on eBay.
khat17
  Posted: May 9 2016, 03:54 AM


IDW SIMPLETON
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So. Good morning IDW. Update.

As I think I said before I had in a G4GC and it was changed to G4GF.

After the swap and stuff, due to waiting a while after getting the parts for my friend/mechanic to get work started, I ended up doing more damage. Had to take it elsewhere because after a month of road (a travel a lot for work) and 3000+ kilo without the work done, I knew it needed to get done.

Problem. Other mechanic opened it up and I needed bearings.

http://www.king-catalog.com/Catalog/Set/MB5256AM

That's the correct one, but I needed it in 0.25 since I had to get the crankshaft cut/polished.

Funny story. The one in the link has the #3 locator lug on the right with the others on the left. The original engine had them all on the left. So. Ordered.

Took a week to get to me in Jamaica. Shipping and all that. Got it. Put it in. Tight. Great.

So now - back to the machine shop to get the #3 journal polished down a bit more. Hopefully when this is done it doesn't shorten the lifespan of the engine too much.......
Nomake Wan
Posted: May 9 2016, 04:48 AM


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You must seriously love this car to be willing to do so much work on it, gotta say. Pulling an engine and doing a rebuild is serious work and since you have a mechanic doing it I can't imagine what you must be paying to have it done. That being said, done correctly that sucker should run forever afterwards as long as you're not banging off the rev limiter constantly or something. tongue.gif

Best of luck, thanks for the update!
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khat17
  Posted: May 9 2016, 05:19 PM


IDW SIMPLETON
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Not so much the love. Partly. I get sexy mileage off it. But the main issue is costing in Jamaica.

Think of it this way.

I needed to change the water pump. Used out here it was quoted at USD$74. At that price I'd have to ship it to where I am as it's about 110 kilo away. If I drove to pick it up that would hike the price as well. I purchased it online, shipped it to Jamaica and got it into my home-town for USD$65. That was new - factory - genuine.

Take this other example. Needed a crank sensor. Dealer - authorized dealer - locally which is 110 kilo away, gave me a quote for USD$179. I purchased it online and again - shipped it to my home-town for USD$40.

The cost of parts, vehicles and just about anything out here generally is crazy. Usually 2x the cost overseas. Sometimes more.

If I lived somewhere else I'd probably have fixed it and traded it in. Problem is that car marts out here want to buy it from you at half price then sell it for triple what they got it for. So you can't win.

I got the car at a very good price. Even with all of the crap thus far, I've still not paid the local market price for it. Getting close though...........