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Views: 1,174  ·  Replies: 10 
> Is it worth it to purchase a Mazda RX-8 (2009+)?, (As my first car)
HStark
    Posted: Mar 1 2019, 02:43 PM


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So I am fascinated by the RX-8.
I am 16 and I am looking for my first car, and there are a bunch of RX-8 2009 or later for sale on various autotrading sites for $5000-$7000. I really like the car, but I am scared that the apex seal with die and cost me $15000 to rebuild the engine... BTW I am not going to speed or race.

SO..... How reliable are the R2 engines, should I purchase it as my first car?
Meteor
Posted: Mar 2 2019, 06:06 AM


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Yeah, the Renesis engines are known to have their apex seals fails very easily. You can deal with the carbon deposits that contribute to it by burning them off with high revs, but I'm not sure if that entirely fixes the reliability issues. As it's a rotary, you'll also have to enjoy it burning through oil a lot. And of course, the whole rotary fuel mileage thing, since you might not want to spend that much on fuel.
If this is going to be your first car, I'd recommend something with less power that you can afford to have stuff break on. If you absolutely must have a rotary, the engines in FCs are known to be pretty reliable. It's not impossible to keep an RX-8 running well, but you might want to have a lot more experience with car maintenance first.

If you're still thinking of getting an RX-8, the R3 model has extra oil injectors to lubricate the apex seals better.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 2 2019, 02:32 PM


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>first car

I'm going to go with absolutely not recommended.
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HStark
  Posted: Mar 2 2019, 05:54 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Today, 6:06 AM)
Yeah, the Renesis engines are known to have their apex seals fails very easily. You can deal with the carbon deposits that contribute to it by burning them off with high revs, but I'm not sure if that entirely fixes the reliability issues. As it's a rotary, you'll also have to enjoy it burning through oil a lot. And of course, the whole rotary fuel mileage thing, since you might not want to spend that much on fuel.
If this is going to be your first car, I'd recommend something with less power that you can afford to have stuff break on. If you absolutely must have a rotary, the engines in FCs are known to be pretty reliable. It's not impossible to keep an RX-8 running well, but you might want to have a lot more experience with car maintenance first.

If you're still thinking of getting an RX-8, the R3 model has extra oil injectors to lubricate the apex seals better.

Thanks for replying! Well then I guess with all things considered I am not getting a RX8...
But still, two questions:
1. By FCs do you mean RX-7s? Why is the older models more reliable?
2. Also, R3 is a different thing than R2 right? From many understanding, R2 is the second generation introducered in 2009, what are the R3s, are they the special versions or something?

Thank you again!
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 4 2019, 12:57 AM


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QUOTE (HStark @ Mar 2 2019, 05:54 PM)
1. By FCs do you mean RX-7s? Why is the older models more reliable?

The older 13B engines were less complicated and ran far less power for their capacity than the RENESIS did. The whole point of the RENESIS, according to Mazda, was to achieve turbo-like power levels without using a turbo. Well, the older 13B engines didn't do that. So in general, they're going to be more reliable in stock form, especially non-turbo engines like the one in the FC. And FCs are still relatively cheap, too.

QUOTE (HStark @ Mar 2 2019, 05:54 PM)
2. Also, R3 is a different thing than R2 right? From many understanding, R2 is the second generation introducered in 2009, what are the R3s, are they the special versions or something?

Probably a typo. I'm sure he meant R2. After all, one of the minor changes on the R2 was the addition of one more oil injector per rotor housing, and that's what he was talking about, so there you go. The only mention of an "R3" is on the English side of Wikipedia and it's in horrendous grammar and nothing in that paragraph is supported by actual data on the Japanese side, so it's bogus.

EDIT: Here, a page summarizing the changes in the 2009 model:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical...es-i-ii-161665/

I still would avoid a rotary as a first car, and if you're dead-set on one I would absolutely avoid an RX-8. Just sayin'.

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Mar 4 2019, 12:59 AM
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Meteor
Posted: Mar 4 2019, 02:24 AM


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Huh. This R3/R2 stuff is getting confusing.

When writing up my last post, one of the first places I looked to find info on the R2 was this RX8Club thread a google search gave me. Some people there actually thought the RX-8 R2 didn't exist.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/m...8-r3-r2-179974/
Now I decided to look this stuff up again, and searching for RX-8 R3 brings up a lot of English-language car sites talking about R3s. Such as this.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mazda/...st-drive-review
Or this.
https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/20...reat-sports-car

My best guess is that the Japanese and US branches of Mazda decided to name things differently for whatever reason.

This post has been edited by Meteor on Mar 4 2019, 02:41 AM
HStark
  Posted: Mar 4 2019, 06:25 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 5 hours, 28 minutes ago)
The older 13B engines were less complicated and ran far less power for their capacity than the RENESIS did. The whole point of the RENESIS, according to Mazda, was to achieve turbo-like power levels without using a turbo. Well, the older 13B engines didn't do that. So in general, they're going to be more reliable in stock form, especially non-turbo engines like the one in the FC. And FCs are still relatively cheap, too.


Probably a typo. I'm sure he meant R2. After all, one of the minor changes on the R2 was the addition of one more oil injector per rotor housing, and that's what he was talking about, so there you go. The only mention of an "R3" is on the English side of Wikipedia and it's in horrendous grammar and nothing in that paragraph is supported by actual data on the Japanese side, so it's bogus.

EDIT: Here, a page summarizing the changes in the 2009 model:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical...es-i-ii-161665/

I still would avoid a rotary as a first car, and if you're dead-set on one I would absolutely avoid an RX-8. Just sayin'.

Thank you for replying! Sorry was not able to reply to your first answer, since I am only allowed to make one post every 24hr right now...
Thanks for the link for mechanical changes, it is very helpful. I did check price on the FCs, but they seems to exceed of my current budget of $5000-$7000. Also, their electrical systems are out-dated and they are older than 20 years old after all, so I don’t think they will be suitable for my need of daily driving.

So other than rotary engine cars, what other affordable, cool, low-profile cars would you recommend? My friends recommended Infiniti G35, but I would love to know if there are more choices...
Oh, BTW, I am in Ohio, US, so car availability is also a problem. I would love to get a old Toyota Model X(they called it Reiz in China) that my dad used to drive, but they are far from affordable and easy to find here in U. S.

Thanks again.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Mar 5 2019, 12:36 AM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Yesterday, 2:24 AM)
Huh. This R3/R2 stuff is getting confusing.

When writing up my last post, one of the first places I looked to find info on the R2 was this RX8Club thread a google search gave me. Some people there actually thought the RX-8 R2 didn't exist.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/m...8-r3-r2-179974/
Now I decided to look this stuff up again, and searching for RX-8 R3 brings up a lot of English-language car sites talking about R3s. Such as this.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mazda/...st-drive-review
Or this.
https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/20...reat-sports-car

My best guess is that the Japanese and US branches of Mazda decided to name things differently for whatever reason.

Actually correct. In this case, it's a difference between colloquial references and Mazda's English-language marketing catching on to said colloquialisms and making it "official," if only for the English markets, and also completely different from the actual colloquial meaning.. See here:

Autotrader - 2009 Mazda RX-8

So "R1" is the colloquial term for the first generation. "R2" is the colloquial term for the second generation, the "minor change" or "mid-cycle refresh" that happened in all markets in 2009 (and included the extra oil injectors you talked about, among lots of other changes). "R3" is a specific trim package offered in 2009-2011 in English-speaking markets.

Thanks, Mazda.

QUOTE (HStark @ Yesterday, 6:25 AM)
I did check price on the FCs, but they seems to exceed of my current budget of $5000-$7000.

If you were dead-set on one, your cheap alternative would be to find a decent example out here in California or Nevada or some other state, then pick it up for the cost of airfare and drive it back. I nearly bought one running and driving for $700 a few years ago. They can be found, and you have to be willing to travel to go get it.

QUOTE (HStark @ Yesterday, 6:25 AM)
Also, their electrical systems are out-dated and they are older than 20 years old after all, so I don’t think they will be suitable for my need of daily driving.

I literally have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

QUOTE (HStark @ Yesterday, 6:25 AM)
So other than rotary engine cars, what other affordable, cool, low-profile cars would you recommend? My friends recommended Infiniti G35, but I would love to know if there are more choices...

For a first car? A car you're inevitably going to thrash as you learn all the painful lessons that come with car ownership, driving conditions and technique, and dealing with all the other morons on the road?

Honda Civic (any). Toyota Corolla (any). Acura Integra (any). Subaru Legacy (any). Volvo 240.

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Mar 5 2019, 12:41 AM
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kyonpalm
Posted: Mar 5 2019, 02:39 PM


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Don't listen to these guys, I say go for it. If you want, add oil directly into the tank with the gas during fill-ups, it's all going to end up in the same place anyway, and it will mix better. And if one of the rotors' apex seals go kaput, you still have a second!

I never see these cars in junkyards.

The RX-8 is an excellent car to throw a ton of miles on, whether on long-distance trips or in stop-and-go-traffic. No one really needs to have space to store items of any substantial size or comfortably carry passengers in the car they drive most of the time anyway. Anyone who ever said sports cars should not be first cars is a pussy and doesn't see the fun in having to make major repairs on a car they were not prepared to get in over their heads on because they couldn't have the self-control to pick a practical car that's designed to be a daily driver as their - wow surprise - daily driver.

In fact, you should import a 20B Cosmo - it is the ultimate grocery-getter, and if one or two rotors go out, you still have a third!
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Meteor
Posted: Mar 5 2019, 09:18 PM


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Those sarcasm levels are off the charts! Dial it down to a 5, man.

Or turn it up to 30.


Anyway, OP's already decided against the RX-8. Further "dun buy arrexeight" posts aren't going to contribute much to the thread.
RalliKai
Posted: Mar 7 2019, 08:13 AM


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QUOTE (HStark @ Mar 4 2019, 09:25 AM)

Oh, BTW, I am in Ohio, US, so car availability is also a problem. I would love to get a old Toyota Model X(they called it Reiz in China) that my dad used to drive, but they are far from affordable and easy to find here in U. S.

Thanks again.

Not knowing what part of Ohio you're in, weather and road conditions should also be taken into consideration. I lived in the Northeastern part of the state most of my life and know things can get nasty between January all the way thru April. I'd check out the older Civic Si (2006-2009) or, if your heart is set on something rear-wheel drive, the NC version of the Mazda Miata.