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Views: 6,241  ·  Replies: 42 
> Would Shingo be able to stop Emperor?
Falbere
  Posted: Dec 24 2014, 07:29 PM


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Recently watched Stage 2 again and noticed Sudo Kyoichi said he would race "on any given conditions, any number of races, but as long as you cannot even win a single race, we will take your team sticker."

So if the Night Kids wanted a rematch, it is possible they'd send out Shingo for a gumtape deathmatch.

What will happen for EG6 vs EVO4 downhill on Myogi?

I'd like to think Shingo might stand a chance.

4WD cars had superior grip. This means, to start a drift, there must be a lot of weight transfer. This can be achived in 2 ways:

1. Turn the steering wheel to a large degree quickly and floor the gas.
This will rotate out the back end of the car and point the front in the direction of the turn, initiating a drift.

2. Step on the brakes and disturb the balance of the car.

No. 1 would not be possible because in a gumtape deathmatch, steering angle is limited.
No. 2 would be hard to execute because for a 4WD, the more you slow down, the better grip the car have, making it hard to slide around corners.

So how can Seiji clear corners? Leave a comment about what you think of this.
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Spaz
Posted: Dec 24 2014, 09:00 PM


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With how quick the steering rack is on an Evo, there's zero reason a gumtape deathmatch would be a detriment to Emperor... Even if Sudo suddenly decided to become a retard and accept retarded terms like that.

I see two blatant errors in your logic:

1) You need to turn the wheel a lot to disturb the chassis enough to break the rear end loose. This is false. With enough front grip (which they had), you can disturb the chassis simply by turning the wheel fast. Even a few degrees very quickly will get the rear loose if you're off the throttle.

2) That they need to drift to win. LOL.
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MonkeyWrenchd
Posted: Dec 24 2014, 10:40 PM


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Shingo would be able to stop them if he bump every each of them lol

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HyperSonic
Posted: Dec 25 2014, 01:59 AM


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The logic used may have errors in them, but considering how a dirty racer Shingo is and how empty Seiji's skull is, he might actually pull it off... facepalm.gif facepalm.gif
Falbere
  Posted: Dec 25 2014, 03:02 AM


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QUOTE (Spaz @ 6 hours, 2 minutes ago)
With how quick the steering rack is on an Evo, there's zero reason a gumtape deathmatch would be a detriment to Emperor... Even if Sudo suddenly decided to become a retard and accept retarded terms like that.

I see two blatant errors in your logic:

1) You need to turn the wheel a lot to disturb the chassis enough to break the rear end loose. This is false. With enough front grip (which they had), you can disturb the chassis simply by turning the wheel fast. Even a few degrees very quickly will get the rear loose if you're off the throttle.

2) That they need to drift to win. LOL.

Counter!!!

1) We don't know if Seiji is driving fast enough smile.gif maybe he would be scared and drive slowly, which means he won't be able to break the rear end loose. This is tarmac, not sand.

2) How is he supposed to win without drifting? He can't grip the road, he don't have the turning radius for that...

Well spaz I respect you for being a EVO driver, and your point does make alot of sense. But I would still try to defend my point tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Falbere on Dec 25 2014, 03:13 AM
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Meteor
Posted: Dec 25 2014, 04:30 AM


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QUOTE
4WD cars had superior grip.

"superior grip" is overstating it. 4WD/AWD doesn't magically increase the grip the tires produce; it simply allows all four tires to be used for acceleration, making it easier to accelerate hard when launching, coming out of corners, etc. because the front tires are doing some of the work too. It just makes it easier to avoid wheelspin, but it doesn't straight up prevent it, and it's also not going to do much about how the car behaves off-throttle (most that'd happen there is the car's balance being affected by how much both the front and rear differentials lock or open up when coasting, and mistakes like shift-locking affecting all four wheels rather than just two). If there's enough torque going to the back wheels, physics will dictate that they start sliding.
And speaking of which: the Evo - like most fast AWDs - doesn't run a 50/50 power-split (except maybe when a rally team feels like adjusting that). There's significantly more power going to the rear wheels than the front ones, and there's a good amount of power being put out by the engine too, hence there's plenty of throttle-oversteer potential still left in the car.

And so I'll have to say that this...
QUOTE
No. 2 would be hard to execute because for a 4WD, the more you slow down, the better grip the car have, making it hard to slide around corners.

... is just not correct. Slowing down is not going to make the tires super sticky, and a rear-biased AWD is going to have a much easier time sliding around than a completely FWD Civic (which is so much less likely to slide that Shingo has to force it to by left-foot-braking in it and partially locking up the rear wheels). Also, both drivers have access to this thing colloquially referred to as an "E-brake" (or "sidebrake", given the location of this race).

The real issue won't be whether or not Seiji can get his Evo to slide. The real issue will be how finely he can control said slides (there's a pretty big difference between simply sliding around and actually four-wheel drifting through corners). Of course, then there's the question of if he'd even need to drift, which could come down to how well Shingo would actually be keeping up (and of course, what methods Shingo ultimately relies on).

QUOTE
2) How is he supposed to win without drifting? He can't grip the road, he don't have the turning radius for that...

Spaz kinda explained that with the mention of Evos having a quick steering ratio. Steering ratio refers to how much you have to turn the wheel vs how much the front wheels actually turn, and he's saying the Evo's steering ratio is quick enough that Seiji will still have enough steering angle to work with for grip driving.
Also, it's a JDM Evo IV, and possibly also a high-end model, so it's very likely to be equipped with Active Yaw Control. What that does is control the power split between the rear wheels to help the car turn better, and so that'd be another factor making it easier for Seiji to manage this.

So yeah. There are a few things to think about regarding this race (assuming Sudo would even accept such conditions), but whether or not Seiji's Evo can slide is simply not one of them, and whether or not it can grip possibly isn't one either.
Falbere
  Posted: Dec 25 2014, 04:35 AM


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^ Ooh interesting. This prettymuch means I can say Evo 4 will have superior peformance, even in gumtape deathmatch.

So let's think about other factors. Do you think Shingo can give the Evo in front of him a bump? And will it cause Seiji to spin out of control and crash?
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MonkeyWrenchd
Posted: Dec 25 2014, 08:18 AM


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QUOTE (Falbere @ 3 hours, 42 minutes ago)
^ Ooh interesting. This prettymuch means I can say Evo 4 will have superior peformance, even in gumtape deathmatch.

So let's think about other factors. Do you think Shingo can give the Evo in front of him a bump? And will it cause Seiji to spin out of control and crash?

Well that depends on what simulation Kyouichi give Seiji.



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the_stig
Posted: Jan 8 2015, 08:49 PM


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Seiji by far, his evo iv would leave shingo and his civic for dead

This post has been edited by the_stig on Jan 8 2015, 09:11 PM
fettman53
Posted: Jan 8 2015, 09:13 PM


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The way I see it, it depends on where the race takes place. If it's on Myogi, where Shingo drives every day, a gum-tape deathmatch may just absolutely be in his favor due to his knowledge of the course compared to Seiji. Even if Seiji drove the course a few times to learn it, if we're assuming he's never done a gum-tape deathmatch before, the scare factor of the unknowns might give Shingo the advantage over him.

One of the main reasons why Shingo lost to Takumi was because, as was the case with most of the beginning of the series, the race took place on Akina. That, and Takumi knew his car well enough to be able to learn new things on the fly without it being too dangerous. Shingo wasn't paying attention at the end while Takumi didn't even have to think about when to turn, aaaaand Shingo go boom.

Seiji may be given advice from Kyoichi, but Shingo would go into this race with a big grin on his face. Nakazato don't need to tell him NOTHIN'!
(Sean)Lau Yu Xuan
Posted: Jan 9 2015, 06:31 AM


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But his hand was injured, which was why there isn't.

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Falbere
  Posted: Jan 9 2015, 09:20 AM


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QUOTE ((Sean)Lau Yu Xuan @ 2 hours, 48 minutes ago)
But his hand was injured, which was why there isn't.

It is all about "what if"
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GoP-Demon
Posted: Jan 9 2015, 09:29 AM


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evo accelerates out and rapes civic... then civic tries to ram the evo, but the evo is way heavier and the civic just bounces off and dies.
Spaz
Posted: Jan 10 2015, 06:52 AM


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I don't see bumping being a factor either. Worst case, he succeeds and the Evo gets more sideways than intended.

As mentioned before, the Evo IV has AYC. It does not, however, have ACD, so the torque vectoring is only applied to the rear axle, not between the front and rear. Regardless, unless the car is hit hard enough to rotate it past the point where Seiji can't countersteer further, he can simply add steering to keep the wheels pointed where he wants to go, and add throttle.

Really, the only time an Evo will not handle predictably is if you are off the throttle. The whole driveline system only works when it has torque input to provide a lock-up, so in most situations, if you give it more skinny pedal, it'll pull you out the other side. I will need to do some cropping, but if needed I have video from the track this year of me almost spinning the IX. I turned in off throttle, and surpassed the limit of rear grip since the diffs were open. I sawed the wheel a few times, car tried to slide on me twice, and the second time I buried the accelerator. You can see the boost gauge build to full, and then the car just snaps back onto the racing line like nothing happened. It's really quite neat.
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Falbere
  Posted: Jan 10 2015, 08:22 AM


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The peformance of a Evo is really scary then. So I can safely conclude.
Shingo, "You shall not pass!"
Seiji, "Nah"
*passes*
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Tessou
Posted: Jan 10 2015, 10:27 AM


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This debate skipped past my radar for a while.

Shingo is a driver that, in the only time we've ever seen him race, used a handicap to gain an advantage and still couldn't defeat an inferior car. Had he just driven the damn car to the finish line instead of toying with Takumi and inadvertently, passively teaching him how to drive with a taped hand, he would have easily won by power alone.

That said, Seiji is in a far more powerful and nimble car, and taping his hand to the wheel would do very little. Any chance of victory for Shingo is out the window.

Emperor was presented as a contender to overthrow the RedSuns, which was already seen as a more potent team than the NightKids from the start. Shingo wouldn't stand a chance.
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r35gtr
Posted: Nov 19 2015, 09:12 PM


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Yes, remember shingo does not play fairly. Its either a win or a double crash.
Ivanik
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 02:19 PM


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The power to weight ratio of the EVO IV should be enough to get a proper drifting with limited steering angle, and it would still be to heavy and would have to much grip to be easily pushed bu a civic, and as being 4WD it wouldn't spin out; no way Shingo would get Seiji to crash; however, if making a non enough aggressive entrance, 4WD settings doesn't let you to compensate it while heading to the corner, or you begin it well, or you crash.
r35gtr
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 05:07 PM


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Shinggo is dirty and he will keep his pride as a dirty racer. The race will definitely end in a double crash

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kyonpalm
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 06:10 PM


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Shingo was shit. He was outclassed by Nakazato canonically and he's even worse if you stripped away his ability to drive like a punk.
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r35gtr
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 07:58 PM


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Yup he is a p.o.s and he prides himself as such. Remember that he wanted to crash the 86 to save his 'reputation' a double crash is very likely. But after wards he will get his ass kicked by seiji. Seiji looks like a hot head

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Nomake Wan
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 08:36 PM


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QUOTE (r35gtr @ 3 hours, 28 minutes ago)
Shinggo is dirty and he will keep his pride as a dirty racer. The race will definitely end in a double crash

Not a chance. For it to end in a double crash he'd actually have to be able to keep up.
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kyonpalm
Posted: Dec 5 2015, 09:13 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 36 minutes, 58 seconds ago)
Not a chance. For it to end in a double crash he'd actually have to be able to keep up.

YOUTUBE ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdza03XOmTw )
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xiao
  Posted: Dec 6 2015, 01:49 AM


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QUOTE (r35gtr)
Yup he is a p.o.s and he prides himself as such. Remember that he wanted to crash the 86 to save his 'reputation' a double crash is very likely.  But after wards he will get his ass kicked by seiji. Seiji looks like a hot head

QUOTE (Nomake Wan)
Not a chance. For it to end in a double crash he'd actually have to be able to keep up.

YOUTUBE ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-HXB0DQWFE )
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Spaz
Posted: Dec 6 2015, 09:52 AM


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QUOTE (Ivanik @ Yesterday, 5:19 PM)
The power to weight ratio of the EVO IV should be enough to get a proper drifting with limited steering angle, and it would still be to heavy and would have to much grip to be easily pushed bu a civic, and as being 4WD it wouldn't spin out; no way Shingo would get Seiji to crash; however, if making a non enough aggressive entrance, 4WD settings doesn't let you to compensate it while heading to the corner, or you begin it well, or you crash.

Please tell me more about how you can't spin an Evo.

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