I would think that anything that is CARB legal is ok, but I'm not from Cali.
I'm moving this to the auto tech section, it's better off over there.
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| Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Technical Discussion > How do i make my car faster While passing smog? |
| Posted by: WanganComet Jun 20 2009, 10:17 AM |
| i wanted to know if anyone could help me out. i want to put some parts in my DA and my Z31 but i still want them to pass emissions. i am new to tuning since my dad did all my cars tuning when i was young and would like to start tuning my self. |
| Posted by: Möbius Jun 20 2009, 12:10 PM |
| I think this is very vague, as far as the question goes. No goal or budget? I would think that anything that is CARB legal is ok, but I'm not from Cali. I'm moving this to the auto tech section, it's better off over there. |
| Posted by: MattW Jun 20 2009, 12:47 PM |
| What is a DA? Why don't people just start calling cars by their real names. |
| Posted by: Rudy Jun 20 2009, 02:52 PM |
| A DA is a second-gen Acura Integra from the early nineties... DA5. And dude, it's called paying off the smogman.  |
| Posted by: chillined Jun 20 2009, 03:31 PM |
| Start with I/H/E. Intake/Headers/Exhaust. |
| Posted by: WanganComet Jun 20 2009, 11:20 PM |
| i was thinking of putting in intake and a new exhaust but since i live in los angeles there are many exhaust and intakes that are illegal. although i did hear K&N and AEM intakes pass smog in los angeles but i dont know if thats true. |
| Posted by: ToyotaFan84 Jun 21 2009, 05:10 AM |
| Start with stickers. Lots of them! Each one gives you 10 horsepower! This is a good place to start. https://idforums.net/index.php?showtopic=37238 All jokes aside... From what I understand in California the CAI needs to have a CARB number. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jun 21 2009, 08:13 AM |
| Start with suspension. Or buy new cars. |
| Posted by: Möbius Jun 21 2009, 08:21 AM | ||
I always start with rims myself.  I think it's an obsession.  |
| Posted by: Godot Jun 21 2009, 09:33 AM | ||
rims are good too but Los Angeles roads are way to unforgiving for low profiled rims =X pot holes and dips nearly everywhere. my sis cracked her 18 inch rims on a dingy pot hole so she sold it and got steelies to drive around in. |
| Posted by: Spaz Jun 21 2009, 10:12 AM | ||
Ricer. Anything CARB legal will pass, provided everything else is within the requirements for the year your car was made, e.g. carbon emissions, lack of CELs, etc. Z31, turbo or NA? |
| Posted by: Steve Jun 21 2009, 10:22 AM |
| First you probably want to allow your engine to breathe. Then continue with a cat-back exhaust. What are your goals? Depending on your transmission, you can determine what parts to get next. Automatic and manual cars make the same power at the engine, however manuals transmissions put more of that power to the ground (12-15% M/T drivetrain loss verses ~18-20% A/T). Therefore, modifications like light-weight flywheels and driveshafts will increase the rear wheel horsepower without actually increasing the power at the crank. |
| Posted by: chillined Jun 21 2009, 01:16 PM | ||
Ah, how immature. Understand that I didn't see that he had a Z31. |
| Posted by: MattW Jun 21 2009, 02:21 PM | ||
Plenty of drivers seem to drive around Los Angels with huge wheels, and no problems. Sounds like your sister just sucks at driving. |
| Posted by: Spaz Jun 21 2009, 03:03 PM | ||
It's a joke. Pretty much every ricer you talk to, and ask what they've got done, that's their answer. Intake and exhaust are good, "headers" or manifolds as they're technically called, generally don't need any work beyond porting unless they're incredibly constrictive. I'll be running my 300awhp build (400bhp) on stock, unported manifolds. Eventually I'll upgrade (SMIM, TEM) for more torque, but as it stands there's no need. |
| Posted by: chillined Jun 21 2009, 03:12 PM | ||
Ah sorry, I'm not really in a joking mood right now. But headers really do make a difference. But if he has a Turbo Z31, I don't see the point of upgrading the Exhaust Manifolds. He could get an aftermarket Downpipe, or even lightweight wheels. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jun 21 2009, 03:52 PM |
| Let me just say this. Nine times out of ten, when asking a question like "How do I make my car go faster?" You probably don't need it to go any faster. |
| Posted by: Möbius Jun 21 2009, 04:33 PM | ||
That's a good way of observing it, and one that I would be inclined to agree with. That made my day, basically. It's one quote that I shall remember. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Jun 21 2009, 06:46 PM | ||
Depends on the design as far as I know. Generally, factory exhaust manifolds are a big collector attached to each cylinder with a single pipe coming off it to the exhaust. Upgrading the headers to something that collects from each cylinder individually makes quite a difference. In the case of my blacktop 4A-GE there's not much to be gained beyond replacing the factory 2-1 section, as it's pretty restrictive, yeah, but on my old S13 it would've been a bit of a difference to replace the factory manifold. |
| Posted by: Möbius Jun 22 2009, 12:23 AM | ||
Agreed, it really depends on what your car came with stock. Some of them are no more than a glorified collector that's shaped like a box, with pipes sticking out at each cylinder. >_< |
| Posted by: peemyTNBow Jun 22 2009, 01:08 AM |
| CARB Legal parts. Out of state plates. Pay the smog guy. Those are your options. Gotta pay to play. |
| Posted by: sideways Jun 22 2009, 01:37 AM |
| You forgot my option. Swap it all back to legal for smog, then put all the toys back after you pass. |
| Posted by: WanganComet Jun 22 2009, 07:49 AM |
| i have done that a couple of times but i would rather keep them on ha ha ha. but yea my Z31 is turbo |
| Posted by: The Stig Jun 22 2009, 11:12 AM |
| Just as a question, why do you want to have a faster car? It seems that you only want to reap the benefits of having a "faster car" but don't want the cons? No matter what, if you have an aftermarket exhaust cops will hassle you. Whether or not they are legal it doesn't really matter because they will make YOU prove that it is legal instead of having them prove it is illegal. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Jun 22 2009, 11:53 AM | ||
Exactly what I wanted to say. Perhaps a better way to make your car faster is to learn to drive it better. Once you have the driving half taken care of, work on mechanical adjustments. |
| Posted by: MetalMan777 Jun 22 2009, 02:14 PM |
| NAWS /thread. But seriously, the easiest way to make a car faster is to make it weigh less. This won't do a whole lot your top speed, but if you're hitting that on the street, you need another gear. Removing crap from your car is free. Decide if you need it, if not, it's just slowing you down, pitch it. |
| Posted by: JaeMok Jun 22 2009, 02:32 PM |
| Why not make the car reliable first? Are there any problems with it? Does it make any noises? I would fix the car first before modding it. |
| Posted by: sideways Jun 22 2009, 03:00 PM |
Whats with you guys  This kind of question is a perfectly fine question to ask. Everyones got to start somewhere- and its hard to ask the "right" questions, when you dont know what the right questions are. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Jun 22 2009, 03:08 PM |
| ummm BAR & CARB approved motor swaps? xD iirc, the motor has to be newer and all emissions equipment intact.. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Jun 22 2009, 10:30 PM | ||
Kay, fine. First, is the car reliable? If not, make it reliable. Then suspension, wheels and tires. You'd be surprised how much faster you can be when your car is stable and predictable. |
| Posted by: sideways Jun 22 2009, 10:31 PM |
| Heh i did mine totaly ass backwards from that.. |
| Posted by: peemyTNBow Jun 22 2009, 11:36 PM | ||
Takes too long, and it's a PITA. All it takes is another dickhead cop to give you a REF ticket and you are back to paying the fine or putting it back to stock. I like fire and forget solutions for the most part. |
| Posted by: Spaz Jun 23 2009, 12:03 PM |
| Honestly, the exhaust issue can be solved by a cutout. That way you can appear and sound relatively stock until you get to the track or event, and let loose, hoping they don't have noise restrictions. |
| Posted by: sideways Jun 23 2009, 01:09 PM | ||
ya, depending on what you have it can take a weekend. But hey. Its free. And it may be a pita, but if youre in california- You only need to do it once every 2 years. Small price to pay if you want to go fast. |
| Posted by: Thereno Jun 23 2009, 02:47 PM | ||
or, move to Arizona or Nevada, where a half-million dollar house is not a 2 bedroom ranch, but a 2 story badass pad. Also, not sure of Cali laws, but here in Ohio when we had to do emission checks I did this. I would get 30-day tags for the car, take it to e-check, it failed. Found out that you didn't need to do the check for 30-day tags. You could only get one 30-day tag, couldn't renew it. So, I signed the title over to my dad (sold it to him for $1 on the title), had a relative notarize it for free, then he transferred it for a tax fee of $0.07, then got 30-day tags. We kept selling the car back and forth for a couple months until they ended the emissions testing around here. |
| Posted by: DeeezNuuuts83 Jun 23 2009, 04:55 PM |
| It's hard to do much while flying under the radar when it comes to passing smog in California, assuming you're not altering your registration to make it look like your car is from out of state. Catback exhausts will free up a few ponies without altering your car's ability to pass smog, though the louder your car gets, the higher your likelihood of getting pulled over gets. Intakes add some ponies and are a lot less easier to notice than exhausts (at least aurally), so you might be able to fly by police a bit easier unless your car is obviously modded with all of the accompanying visual aids. You'll need a CARB-certified intake to pass smog and also to get a cop to not write you up (assuming he's not a jerk). Headers also help, but very few are actually CARB-certified, though if you keep your stock headshield on, most cops won't think to look out for headers, and the same may apply to a regular smog station. Also, ECU reflashes really help wake up a car while being almost completely undetectable, as you can't really "hear" or "see" a reflash. Though again you have a Z31; there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm not sure how the aftermarket is for that particular car with CARB-legal parts. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Jun 29 2009, 04:42 PM | ||
There's no point modifying the intake too much if the car's otherwise factory. In a lot of cases, removing the factory airbox and throwing on pod filters doesn't actually help very much because it just ends up sucking in hot air. Easy way to do it, and avoid unwanted attention, is to replace the OEM panel filter with a performance replacement like A'PEXi or K&N. Drops right in the factory airbox. |
| Posted by: Möbius Jun 30 2009, 06:55 AM | ||
On some cars, that doesn't free up much, because of the design of the factory airbox. On a Contique for example, a drop in perf. filter does nothing, because the restriction is somewhere else. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Jun 30 2009, 02:57 PM | ||
That is quite true. One thing that should be remembered too is that many cars with airflow meters will find that to be a restriction, with prime examples being the SR and CA engines. |
| Posted by: BlackSubaru Jun 30 2009, 03:22 PM |
| buy a faster car from the start. or get a better driver. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Jun 30 2009, 03:33 PM | ||
Nothing to contribute? GTFO  |
| Posted by: Spaz Jun 30 2009, 03:55 PM | ||
You know, the man's right. A good driver can make a slow car fast. I'm guessing you've never seen a Yaris beat a GT-R at an autox. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jun 30 2009, 04:54 PM | ||
Nope, don't care to. A good driver can only do so much. Autox can only do so much. Hit up a nice course like VIR. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Jun 30 2009, 06:10 PM | ||
I didn't say he's wrong, just that it's not useful to the discussion. Being a better driver is obvious to make your driving faster, as it would itself imply. What the OP was asking however is how to make their car faster. |
| Posted by: BlackSubaru Jun 30 2009, 06:21 PM |
| well, you could start by releasing the parking brake, as a car doesn't move without a driver. just simple things like telling us it's not a race car and therefor a driver change is not possible/needed would have been nice. if he wants to go faster, change the final drive ratios. "differential gears" this'll make the car accelerate quicker, ie go faster, |
| Posted by: Rudy Jul 3 2009, 11:09 PM |
| I'll tell you what, the Z31 is a great car to throw illegal mods onto if you keep it stock; it's not exactly as 'pull me over' as, say, an Acura Integra or an Eclipse. But your odds of a Cop doing something as insane and out of the blue as popping your hood? One in a million.  At WORST you'll get a noise violation ticket with the wrong exhaust. (Read: too loud) Just pay off the smogman. Simple and easy. |
| Posted by: Spaz Jul 4 2009, 08:37 AM | ||
Yeah, but you get the wrong exhaust and happen to get pulled over by the right cop, you'll be sent to a ref, and from what I've generally heard, those guys don't take "pay to play" like smog testers. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jul 4 2009, 03:13 PM |
| My buddy got pulled in an EVOX for exhaust being too loud. I seriously don't know how. 'Cause my FD is louder at idle than his car is at high RPMs. |
| Posted by: sideways Jul 4 2009, 07:26 PM | ||
And learning to be a better driver doesnt make the car faster. It makes you faster. |
| Posted by: Jardim Jul 4 2009, 10:45 PM |
| You could come to Massachusetts... Any car 96 or older doesn't need to go through emissions.... straight pipe em. |
| Posted by: DeeezNuuuts83 Jul 6 2009, 08:28 PM | ||
I love how you think everything is as easy as that. Yes, the 300ZX is a bit less conspicuous than the cars that you mentioned, but it's usually the luck of the draw, like cmspaz said. I had one of the loudest mufflers on the market at the time with custom catback piping with no resonators for a few years before I finally got stopped for it... meanwhile, I know plenty of people in bone stock Evos and STIs who have been pulled over and asked to pop their hoods open. You can't just pay off a smog check station. For one thing, they have to look out for narcs, so they won't just accept bribes from anyone. Also, not all places can fudge the results, though this depends on your state. A smog check isn't just a paper that says pass or fail that gets sent to the DMV, it has actual emissions test results listed on it with values for certain polluting gases from your tailpipe. |
| Posted by: Toshi Jul 9 2009, 11:00 PM |
| SUSPENSION SUSPENSION SUSPENION. Work on the handling and it'll feel faster I guarantee it. If you live in California or any state it is legal to transplant an engine of a later year into the car as long as you have all the right information they can't say anything about it. That would be the easiest (most expensive) way of doing so. Put a B18 into it and it'll feel like a rocket and just keep the stock acura exhaust to keep it undercover. |
| Posted by: DeeezNuuuts83 Jul 10 2009, 05:50 PM | ||
It's a tad more complicated than that. Obviously it also has to be a USDM motor, and you're supposed to get some sort of paperwork stating the source of the engine being legitimate and not stolen. |
| Posted by: ddr_hero Jul 10 2009, 06:28 PM |
| Car tuning should always go as folows All parts restored to 100% working order Tires Suspension Brakes Driveshafts/driveline Chassis stiffening Intake and exaust Engine rebuild Basic Weight reduction Racing seat Power upgrades Roll cage Drastic weight reduction In that order. You could also try NOT driving an integra. |
| Posted by: Toshi Jul 10 2009, 10:28 PM |
| Its really quite easy. Go to junk yard. Pull motor. Pull vin. Verify it. Install. Keep vin install it in new car where it matches the block. Friend did it with a USDM Type-R block into a DA. No hassle |
| Posted by: Rudy Jul 11 2009, 03:00 AM | ||
What are the odds, man? For pete's sake when I wrecked the Subaru and called it in, the cop wrote down my car as a Volvo... |
| Posted by: S12 Guy Jul 29 2009, 11:31 AM | ||
Gut the interior, AC, and any other accessories you don't need. remove the passenger seat as well. Is it a Slick Top or Ttop? the T was heavier to start with... Spare and scissor jack too. If you have the stock rims, get new ones, the stocks are killer heavy... less wight for the motor to pull = faster accell... But for top speed, the Shiro 88 SS was the fastest car out of japan at the time. i doubt a normal Z ( mine didnt) would lack to far.. at 145 it should suffice. |
| Posted by: Rudy Jul 29 2009, 12:41 PM | ||
Well, in all honesty, when you say 'slick top', I think this.  |
| Posted by: S12 Guy Jul 30 2009, 01:45 PM |
| Not quite what i meant bro... *doesn't your post count as spam? Hardtop/slicktop depending on your upbringing they are interchangeable |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Jul 30 2009, 01:52 PM |
| Woah, hold up. Shale gets warning for https://idforums.net/index.php?showtopic=38279&view=findpost&p=1093967 where she at least said something in response before posting an image, but Drifter gets off scot-free? Bullshit and reported. |
| Posted by: Rudy Jul 30 2009, 02:40 PM |
| edit: In more relevant matters, A/C removal is a cardinal sin. Even race cars have A/C. If you can't go faster without it, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. |
| Posted by: S12 Guy Jul 31 2009, 05:33 AM | ||
On My s12 all the necessary components for the AC system weigh more than a rim and tyre. AC is not necessary nor needed. Most cars didn't come with ac for a long time, they managed to race and drive them. does it affect comfort? yes. Performance? marginal if any. but it does reduce wight...and maybe idle speed. Weight is the enemy. |
| Posted by: Spaz Jul 31 2009, 07:19 AM | ||
No, it definitely affects performance. I've seen a car dyno 50whp less than expect due to the A/C being left on. They turned it off, did another pull, and oh, hey, there's the 50hp. And 50hp is a significant difference on anyone's butt dyno. EDIT: And it won't affect idle speed at all, that's computer controlled, and it'll be the same A/C on or off. There'll just be a larger load on the engine when it's on. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jul 31 2009, 04:09 PM |
| lmao AC really doesn't make that much of a difference. All of our BMW road racing cars run it. Hell the only reason I don't have AC in my FD is the fact that I bought it that way. Bottom line Is it needed? No Do I prefer it? Yes Do many other racers prefer it? Hell yes. Will it make you faster? Not enough for you to actually be able to tell a difference. My only reason to EVER take AC out would be space for various shit, v mount intercoolers, stupid stuff like that. But even still, you can fab up ways to go around it and keep AC. It really just depends on how deep your wallet is. It's just a lot easier to work under a hood without AC, that's all. |
| Posted by: peemyTNBow Jul 31 2009, 06:24 PM |
| Removing the AC to go faster in a street car is retarded. Even if you win, it's still retarded. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Jul 31 2009, 10:56 PM | ||
Yup. God I wish I had AC in the FD. I'm seriously thinking about installing it back in the car once I pull everything out to get it painted. |
| Posted by: sideways Aug 1 2009, 05:34 PM |
| Wait, wat? 50 whp? Wtf was wrong with that car |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Aug 1 2009, 06:55 PM |
| I dunno. Ain't much worse than the 140whp EVO VIII I saw on the dyno over the weekend. I don't know WHAT the f**k was wrong with it. |
| Posted by: Spaz Aug 1 2009, 08:16 PM | ||
Maybe a bad bearing in the A/C compressor? Who knows. |
| Posted by: HorizontalMitsubishi Aug 5 2009, 04:48 PM |
| too much freon will cause the pressure to be to high and cause the compressor to work more, which could explain the loss of 50 hp. |
| Posted by: xsleepydrifterx Aug 5 2009, 06:02 PM | ||
hah..i wish that were true. well for most cars anyway. but with the ae86 its very common for them not to have the a/c intact. as well as power steering or heater core. it does save some weight in these cars. close to 250 pounds i believe. not to mention stripping the car or the sound deadening. thats an extra 50 pounds. but again its all about how far you are willing to take it. i like my car having interior and radio because its a daily driver. a/c, heater, power steering ive learned to deal without. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Aug 5 2009, 07:35 PM | ||
 My 400whp AE86 has AC, PS, all that shit still. It is so pointless to remove it. |
| Posted by: xsleepydrifterx Aug 5 2009, 07:43 PM |
| well mine isnt 400whp. you do what you can. i dont have money to swap in a more powerfur motor, or turbo the 20v. mine didnt even come with p/s, a/c, heater, or radio so i cant complain. its not so pointless as it does save weight. people random things like remove carpet, when carpet only weights around 10 lbs. but people do it. again its all about how far youre willing to take it and how much weight you want to save before going into carbon fiber/frp parts etc. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Aug 5 2009, 07:51 PM |
| It's so very pointless. 20v's are such a waste of money. Just build a 16v. The only time I really excuse AC and stuff being out of a car is when it is bought that way. My FD for example had no AC when I bought the car. But I do plan on throwing it in there sooner or later. |
| Posted by: Mr. Shine Aug 5 2009, 08:33 PM | ||
Yup, I'm on the lookout for a 16V to pull apart and put back together and build up over time, eventually hopefully to replace my AE111's blacktop. I like the idea of all motor being without things like VVT, too  On the current topic, yes I think removing air conditioning, carpet and the like is retarded. You get the same sort of difference between driving with and without a full tank of gas |
| Posted by: xsleepydrifterx Aug 5 2009, 09:56 PM |
| wow man you really think everything is a waste. well a corolla is a waste altogether then. everyone knows that. the 20v came with my car so i dont care. it has different characteristics than the 16. people do 16/20 swaps or 16v with 20v blacktop itbs. its all about what you want to do. 20v's are not a waste. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Aug 6 2009, 05:44 AM |
| Very off topic. But 20v's aren't worth it. You go ahead and fully build your motor. You'll end up spending 10-20k for a 200-300hp motor. Where as I'll spend half of that on a boosted 16v and make MORE power than that. And way more reliably no less. |
| Posted by: xsleepydrifterx Aug 6 2009, 08:36 AM |
| lol. i dont even want 300 hp. i will leave it with balance around 160. and well tsuchiya has a blacktop in his gtv, and he does extremely well. cant argue with them im sure his mechanics know why more about the motors than we do. one 4ag is not superior over the other, just different characteristics. thats all i have to say |
| Posted by: HorizontalMitsubishi Aug 6 2009, 01:24 PM |
| Well last time I checked the 20v wasn't smog legal here in the states. |
| Posted by: xsleepydrifterx Aug 6 2009, 01:47 PM |
you are correct. somehwat.  all i have to comment on that is that my car was just registered for 2010. |
| Posted by: HorizontalMitsubishi Aug 6 2009, 06:49 PM |
| but the topic is about making your car faster while keeping it smog legel. if you got pulled over and they checked you hood you would get a nice fat ticket. |
| Posted by: sideways Aug 6 2009, 07:15 PM | ||
Yoshida, i have to say- i STRONGLY disagree with you. Not worth it? In what sense? Without hook ups and some smart shopping you can get a 20v swapped in for about 1k. You will be hard pressed to get an na 16v to perform on the level of a stock 20v (In the neighborhood if 130-140 whp) for only 1000 bucks. Plus i have the nice advantage of running stock electronics, vvt, meaning i can daily it easily and still get damn near 40 mpg. Unless of course youre talking about boosting a 16v, or were keeping on topic and talking about street legal goodness, but thats a different can of worms. Maybe you brought this up elsewhere however and i missed it (in which case i apologize), but your blunt statement of "a 20v isnt worth it"? Meh.
Can you cite some sources for this? Or hell, even a hypothetical build up and expected price list? Because 10-20k for 200 hp- im claiming utter bull shit on this one. |
| Posted by: Yoshida Seiji Aug 7 2009, 05:33 AM |
| I'm pretty sure I mentioned the 16v was boosted. I don't do any of that NA shit. At any rate, I will be posting up my 16v build here pretty soon. So you guys can see everything then. |
| Posted by: sideways Aug 7 2009, 12:30 PM | ||
Ya.. well... im a lazy reader at times Thats different, like knives and stabbing weapons. |