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Views: 47,667  ·  Replies: 356 
> Political Discussion, Election is over, post rare policies
 
Who shall be King?
MAGA [ 13 ]  [68.42%]
Hilldawg [ 3 ]  [15.79%]
Some third party bullshit [ 3 ]  [15.79%]
Total Votes: 19
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Tessou
Posted on Oct 24 2018, 10:50 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Oct 21 2018, 02:38 PM)
And therein lies the problem, Tessou. It's the same problem that had been there all along, all the way back when he was on the campaign trail. It's the same problem that I was forced to acknowledge after seeing the first debate, and that after recognizing I couldn't help but wonder why others--especially those who voted for him based on statements he made rather than some other reason--didn't see.

How do you separate 'serious' from 'bonkers'? Or put another way, how does one trust that what he says one moment (let's say a 'serious' moment) has any more merit than what he says another moment (let's say a 'bonkers' moment)? The man, all the way back on the campaign trail and still to this day, will just say whatever will get him the most applause out of his fans at rallies. If that happens to be "LGBT Representation," he'll say it and the crowd will go wild and he'll smile and then his administration will redefine gender to mean biological sex. If it happens to be that he'll release his tax returns when Hillary does hers and then she does then it'll be once the IRS is done but the IRS said he can release them whenever he wants so then it'll be once the race is over what do you mean you want to see my tax returns I'm the President that's not important.

Which are just two random examples. The man says whatever gets him ratings. He has always been in this for one person--himself. People saying he's in it for the bigotry are stupid. People saying he's in it because he's a genius are stupid. He's sitting in that chair because it's good for Trump, and he will continue to do what's good for Trump as long as he is there.

A president being dishonest with the public is nothing new, and the public is generally intelligent enough to not look at the surface of campaigns. I didn't vote for Trump because "I thought he was an honest man". I also similarly voted for Obama in 2008 because I knew he was being a misleading little cocksucker... that had a few good real ideas he was peddling around behind closed doors. Too bad the final version of his healthcare proposition was more of a burden than a benefit, but hey, I supported it.

Obama can say that he's responsible for all of Trump's successes in office, and there is a sprinkle of truth to that. The economy was already starting to recover by the end of 2016. Did Trump's reshuffle of regulations and tariffs help? Almost certainly. It's also certainly incorrect for Trump to deny that Obama had anything to do with it.

Won't release his tax returns? Sucks to be him, and he deserves the scrutiny for it. The only thing protecting him in that case is that there is no law stating that candidates have to release their tax returns. It's just a tradition. Find the tradition in Trump (aside from bullshitting).

So how do I separate the bluster from the serious? By seeing the rallies as pure entertainment and nothing else. As an executive officer, most of his proposals are already molded into something possibly more palatable to the general public by Congress before being considered as law, and we've all seen how that process goes: exactly as it should. Chaotic and full of angry politicians hollering at each other for weeks, which fits in with the Federalist Papers quite nicely.

As for the "redefining sex" thing, I'm really interested in seeing just how far that goes before legal action halts it. I'm not a fan of discrimination of any sort, so Obama's policies through DHS along that line were just fine with me. I honestly think this is just more "oh my god what is Drumpf doing now" for the news that will go nowhere.
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Nomake Wan
Posted on Oct 24 2018, 05:27 PM


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So...what I boil down from that post is, "Trump is doing a bunch of dumb shit that's just barely able to keep floating thanks to the efforts of the president before him, and the only reason it's not completely and utterly off the rails is because Congress can't get anything done even if you put a gun to their heads."

Cool. I'd rather have someone I didn't have to worry about every week who doesn't make our country look like a complete joke on the international stage, thanks.

EDIT: As for the gender identity thing, here's another chewy morsel for ya: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-r...ender-workers-1

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Oct 24 2018, 08:59 PM
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kyonpalm
  Posted on Oct 25 2018, 07:53 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Oct 21 2018, 02:38 PM)
How do you separate 'serious' from 'bonkers'? Or put another way, how does one trust that what he says one moment (let's say a 'serious' moment) has any more merit than what he says another moment (let's say a 'bonkers' moment)?

You answer this question with literally your next sentence:
QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Oct 21 2018, 02:38 PM)
The man, all the way back on the campaign trail and still to this day, will just say whatever will get him the most applause out of his fans at rallies.

The funny thing about it is, I rarely entirely disagreed with even the bonkers stuff. She should be locked up, the wall ought to be built, etc.
I've found his actual work in office to be slightly less radical than hoped, but not entirely disappointing. My opinion may change.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Oct 21 2018, 02:38 PM)
If that happens to be "LGBT Representation," he'll say it and the crowd will go wild and he'll smile and then his administration will redefine gender to mean biological sex.

As it should be.

QUOTE (xiao @ Oct 23 2018, 09:07 PM)
★ It's not until you lose something that you realize how precious it actually was 😔 ..

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Who is trying to keep anyone from voting?

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Yesterday, 9:27 PM)
EDIT: As for the gender identity thing, here's another chewy morsel for ya: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-r...ender-workers-1

>DOJ Lawyers: Transgender bias isn’t sex discrimination
This is correct. Refusing to call a male employee a woman is not sex discrimination. It's simply not catering to a mental illness.

Refusing to hire someone because they have gender dysphoria is a more complex topic, but is more accurately discussed under the notion of "mental health discrimination". To frame it as an "LGBT issue" and affront to LGBT civil rights is an egregious twist.
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xiao
Posted on Oct 25 2018, 09:55 AM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 1 hour, 42 minutes ago)
Who is trying to keep anyone from voting?

To rephrase Common's tweet ~ If my vote didn't matter, they wouldn't have told me I couldn't vote. awesome.gif

Who's they? The MF Government .. I just want my freedom mang. user posted image

--- --- ---

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RalliKai
Posted on Oct 25 2018, 12:50 PM


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I put much more weight into actions I've seen our government take over what Trump says at a rally or tweets. That doesn't mean what he says at a campaign rally or tweet at times doesn't make me cringe or that I agree with all of his statements but alot of it is just white noise to me.

Whether alot of his rhetoric and bluster embarrasses the US on the world stage is pretty irrelevant to me at this point. Action from this administration has been more hawkish against geopolitical adversaries like China, Russia and Iran when I thought that was sorely lacking under Obama, and I hope we keep pressing on China.

This post has been edited by RalliKai on Oct 25 2018, 12:58 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted on Oct 25 2018, 04:32 PM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 8 hours, 34 minutes ago)
You answer this question with literally your next sentence

I didn't. I stated the truth, which is that everything he says is complete bunk. To claim that some of that bunk is 'serious' and should be taken seriously and some of that bunk is 'bonkers' and should be disregarded, that is, to claim that he's in fact a secret genius, is completely ridiculous. It's the same level of apologetics that hyper-religious folks roll out when someone questions the socially-unacceptable parts of their faith.

"Oh, well, I don't interpret it that way, so because I don't interpret it that way that makes it good, and it doesn't matter what anyone else interprets it as and it doesn't matter what it actually says."

Yeah, great. Good for you. Reality, on the other hand, doesn't give a shit.


QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 8 hours, 34 minutes ago)
The funny thing about it is, I rarely entirely disagreed with even the bonkers stuff. She should be locked up, the wall ought to be built, etc. I've found his actual work in office to be slightly less radical than hoped, but not entirely disappointing. My opinion may change.

And it apparently did, considering conversations we've had in the past.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that you may be confusing 'the bonkers stuff' from his campaign rallies--the things he would say at one rally then say something different at another, remaining completely inconsistent from rally to rally if you bothered to pay attention--with the bite-size morsels engineered for loyal MAGApedes to repeat on command. He was never going to Drain The Swamp, Lock Her Up, Build The Wall or any of those sound-bites. Those were all created by Cambridge Analytica, who are very good at their job. Or were, I suppose.

Though, again, it comes down to interpretation, and that's why the point here is that trying to say this here thing he said I agree with so therefore it's real, and this thing here I don't agree with so therefore he was just being silly is nonsense. That's the point I was driving at in response to Tessou's posts where he claimed to just know the difference as if he were the true arbiter of Trump's One True Message™.

QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 8 hours, 34 minutes ago)
As it should be.

We are going to have to disagree very, very strongly on this point. Sex is sex. Gender is gender. If you want to go ahead and say that they're the same thing and they're only two, then frankly you are misinformed, and we are not going to agree, period.

QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 8 hours, 34 minutes ago)
To frame it as an "LGBT issue" and affront to LGBT civil rights is an egregious twist.

Hey, quick question...what does the 'T' in 'LGBT' stand for, again...?

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Oct 25 2018, 06:12 PM
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xiao
  Posted on Mar 27 2019, 04:07 AM


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