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Posted by: Fast Jan 11 2010, 07:00 PM

http://jalopnik.com/5445212/honda-cr+z-122-hp-33-mpg-worst-of-all-worlds

Hmm...only 33 mpg and a 122 hp...thirsty for a hybrid and a bit under powered to be quick (Honda was marketing this to be the first hybrid sports car after all). The numbers are nearly identical to the Fit and Yaris.

It should be a decent city car though, maximum torque @ 1k (even though it only has about 123 ft-lbs) and should handle well (as it weighs about 2600 lbs).

It's good that they are trying to put some affordable fun into green motoring but I would hold out for a later version that will be probably more fuel efficient and quicker.

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 11 2010, 07:07 PM

It's just like the old CRX. For some reason, the CR-Z Draws me in like how the CRX Did with it's odd styling.

user posted image

Posted by: Sensation! Jan 11 2010, 07:12 PM

they shoda named it the insight and gave the big insight another name. as it looks alot like the previous insight.
i caught a glimpse of a test mule a while back, and it certainly isnt ugly in person.

Posted by: Drew Jan 11 2010, 07:14 PM

such an appropriate macro for such a disappointing shitpile of a vehicle. Good move Honda, good move.

Meh, here's to hoping bisimoto get a hand on one...because you know what they did to their last hybrid...

user posted image

Image size reduced, original size: 902 x 545. http://mashamoto.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/insight001.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

Let's hope they make a time attack/circuit racer out of a gutted and built one of these.

Posted by: MidnightViper88 Jan 11 2010, 07:19 PM

You don't need a f**kin' hybrid to get those kind of numbers, any conventional subcompact car can achieve that efficiency...

Honda engineers screwed up somewhere

Posted by: Drew Jan 11 2010, 07:25 PM

An all-original CRX can do better in the MPG arena than that slug...once again proving the inneficency of Hybrids once again.

Posted by: Rudy Jan 11 2010, 07:40 PM

Get your head out of your ass and build a Diesel already, Honda.

Signed, Midnight Drifter.

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 11 2010, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 5 minutes, 11 seconds ago)

Get your head out of your ass and build a Diesel already, Honda.

Signed, Midnight Drifter.

Push Schwarzie to lift the rule.

And the fact that I kind of like VW's TDI engine better.

Posted by: Rudy Jan 11 2010, 07:48 PM

If Honda built a diesel, you wouldn't be saying that. ;3

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 11 2010, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 45 minutes, 13 seconds ago)

If Honda built a diesel, you wouldn't be saying that. ;3

It has happened. CTD-i with most of their Accords in Third-world countries. It sounds like a gas, but can it perform like one while retaining the great MPG rating?

Posted by: Rudy Jan 11 2010, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (JZX100 @ 24 minutes, 13 seconds ago)

It has happened. CTD-i with most of their Accords in Third-world countries. It sounds like a gas, but can it perform like one while retaining the great MPG rating?

As long as it nails 60 inside 10 seconds and gets 50+ MPG, I'm all for it.

Posted by: ddr_hero Jan 12 2010, 09:15 AM

Oh man it makes me laugh how terrible the numbers are on this thing. I knew it was going to be an enormous failure since the moment i saw it.

Now watch it be adopted by the honda community as the next sliced bread.

Posted by: AzNMaVbOi Jan 12 2010, 09:54 AM

The car looks relatively cool from the inside out, but those performance and gas mileage numbers are a huge disappointment. If they're trying to appeal to the "green" crowd, it's not going to work with those EPA figures. Granted, IMA does match Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive in real world performance, but the average car buyer only looks at the EPA figures since that's what's on the window sticker! Now if Honda is trying to appeal to the enthusiasts, they fail pretty hard on that front too. Anemic power plant, iffy suspension, and it's pretty darn heavy for what it's trying to accomplish. It's only saving grace in the performance department is the 6 speed manual that comes standard. I find it very hard to imagine this thing selling well at all.

@Drifter: Honda does make a diesel. It just doesn't exist in the states. For some odd reason, it won't meet US emissions standards in automatic form and they just haven't bothered fixing it and would prefer not to use Urea injection like BMW or Mercedes.

Posted by: TTH Jan 12 2010, 09:55 AM

God those hybrids suck. I would've loved that CR-Z if it would've had K20A under it's hood.

Diesel's are great in MPG but I hate their smell and sound. Also becouse they don't rev high I don't like them

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 12 2010, 09:57 AM

QUOTE (ddr_hero @ 41 minutes, 32 seconds ago)

If you're thinking these go faster, just think, and do a facepalm. This wasn't meant to go fast like a tuned-up EF, it's just for some driving fun and an A-to-B car.

Posted by: MattW Jan 12 2010, 09:58 AM

QUOTE (JZX100 @ 1 minute, 23 seconds ago)

If you're thinking these go faster, just think, and do a facepalm. This wasn't meant to go fast like a tuned-up EF, it's just for some driving fun and an A-to-B car.

Why do you always use "facepalm" in sentences. That shit died out like, last year.

As for the car, it's ugly, stick a normal Civic nose on it and I might like it.

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 12 2010, 10:25 AM

QUOTE (MattW @ 26 minutes, 19 seconds ago)

As for the car, it's ugly, stick a normal Civic nose on it and I might like it.

'Sup.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 12 2010, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (MidnightViper88 @ Yesterday, 10:19 PM)

You don't need a f**kin' hybrid to get those kind of numbers, any conventional subcompact car can achieve that efficiency...

Honda engineers screwed up somewhere

Exactly, 33mpg isn't exactly something to write home about. Doesn't any Civic beat that?

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 12 2010, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ Yesterday, 7:40 PM)

Get your head out of your ass and build a Diesel already, Honda.

Signed, Midnight Drifter.

They do build diesels, they just dont sell them here, though they should. Everyone should instead of building these stupid hybrids.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 12 2010, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 5 minutes, 31 seconds ago)

They do build diesels, they just dont sell them here, though they should. Everyone should instead of building these stupid hybrids.

They are making money off the ignorance of the average NA car buyer.

Pretty much every manufacturer builds small diesels, but only VW sells them in NA.

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 12 2010, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 23 minutes, 9 seconds ago)

Exactly, 33mpg isn't exactly something to write home about. Doesn't any Civic beat that?

They do, at the expense of the performance. My DB1 Teg only made a paltry 25 MPG, B18B motor.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 12 2010, 06:15 PM

QUOTE (JZX100 @ 1 minute, 40 seconds ago)

They do, at the expense of the performance. My DB1 Teg only made a paltry 25 MPG, B18B motor.

So you are comparing a car that is over 15 years old to a brand new hybrid?

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 12 2010, 06:48 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 33 minutes, 6 seconds ago)

So you are comparing a car that is over 15 years old to a brand new hybrid?

OH FU---- >_<

Still, their Hybrids usually suck, since...

Ok, there's two pies, one that saves fuel and one that instantly gives you OVER 9000 BHP!! Though you're only allowed to pick one. That's kind of how Honda is.

Posted by: Drew Jan 12 2010, 09:17 PM

...except that second one was replaced with this.
user posted image

Image size reduced, original size: 800 x 534. http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Honda/2010_Accord_Crosstour_Image-01-800.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

Ugh...calling it next; Civic Si will be dead for a CR-V hybrid street Custom with 20-inch rims.

Posted by: BOZZ Jan 12 2010, 09:22 PM

This Honda CR-Z isn't half bad looking, especially in the pictures that the OP posted.

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 12 2010, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (Thir13Teen @ 7 minutes, 33 seconds ago)

...except that second one was replaced with this.
user posted image

Image size reduced, original size: 800 x 534. http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Honda/2010_Accord_Crosstour_Image-01-800.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

Ugh...calling it next; Civic Si will be dead for a CR-V hybrid street Custom with 20-inch rims.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry seeing this again.

Posted by: MetalMan777 Jan 12 2010, 09:45 PM

How on earth did they ever think Hybrids were a good idea. So far as I can tell, there are 3 advantages to a hybrid, and none of them are game changers. There's the fact that the engine shuts down if you're stopped, except not all Hybrids do that and the ones that do don't if you want air conditioning or heating (which is most NA drivers). Second advantage is the ability to plug in and use wired in electricity instead of gasoline. Kickass, right? Not if you don't have a plug in Hybrid, which today, is most of them. The one thing Hybrids do right is regenerative braking. Good for them, I'm going to give them full credit for this, congrats.

Don't even get me started on the low points of hybrids. The added weight and environmental impact of the batteries are just the start. There are better ways to up MPG numbers, and perhaps a very mild hybrid system might be part of a final solution, but the tech we have today is very much a stopgap. We should bring back group C, that's more relevant now than ever before.

Honda, you better have pissed in the EPA's cereal, because if those numbers are legit, you've got some 'splaining to do.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jan 13 2010, 01:27 AM

What's with everyone and their mothers copying the Audi style front "mouth".

Posted by: Sensation! Jan 13 2010, 01:32 AM

the airdam? that looks nothing like what audis coming up with...
the shape is similar, but the dimensions break it apart.

id say current audis and VWs look incredibly similar, but then, VW owns audi, and alot of their cars are based on pretty much the same stuff

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 06:58 AM

QUOTE (JZX100 @ Yesterday, 9:48 PM)

You still don't get it.

A regular DX will beat that both for performance and for mileage.

So what's the point?

----

As far as the hybrid discussion is concerned, I would mind having one. But it would have to be a diesel hybrid w/ plug in option.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 08:13 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 1 hour, 15 minutes ago)

As far as the hybrid discussion is concerned, I would mind having one. But it would have to be a diesel hybrid w/ plug in option.

http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/models/a3_tdi.html

/thread

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 08:18 AM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 4 minutes, 44 seconds ago)

http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/models/a3_tdi.html

/thread

That's not a hybrid though, is it?

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 08:20 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 2 minutes, 3 seconds ago)

That's not a hybrid though, is it?

No, but it'll get better gas milage and you'll not have to suffer driving a hybrid, a hybrid honda at that.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 08:22 AM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 1 minute, 35 seconds ago)

No, but it'll get better gas milage and you'll not have to suffer driving a hybrid, a hybrid honda at that.

I did not mean this Honda, not at all. I mean, in generic terms of hybrids.

Imagine the mileage a properly set up diesel hybrid could get!

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 13 2010, 08:36 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 14 minutes, 1 seconds ago)

I did not mean this Honda, not at all. I mean, in generic terms of hybrids.

Imagine the mileage a properly set up diesel hybrid could get!

Somewhere just past 40 MPG?

I actually would want a Diesel Hybrid, clean enough, yet strong just to tow my Trailer to Ocean Shores and back... all I registered on the Ram was 13 MPG.

Then I remembered about GM's HCCI engine idea... Don't know if that works since it uses a cycle similar to a Diesel, though it uses just a gas engine.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 08:37 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 15 minutes, 1 seconds ago)

I did not mean this Honda, not at all. I mean, in generic terms of hybrids.

Imagine the mileage a properly set up diesel hybrid could get!

I want a Diesel with KERS =)

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 08:37 AM

QUOTE (JZX100 @ 1 minute, 33 seconds ago)

Somewhere just past 40 MPG?

Diesel cars get up to 60-70 mpg, AFAIK. The small ones do, anyways.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 08:41 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 4 minutes, 5 seconds ago)

Diesel cars get up to 60-70 mpg, AFAIK. The small ones do, anyways.

Yea, my neighbors diesel Punto got about that, or at least it felt that way. I drove it for a month after I torched the CA in my 200SX and I was awaiting a new one. I probably put a tank and a half in the car.

Posted by: Rudy Jan 13 2010, 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ Yesterday, 9:05 PM)

They are making money off the ignorance of the average NA car buyer.

Pretty much every manufacturer builds small diesels, but only VW sells them in NA.

Because most VW buyers tend to have an actual, uh, brain.

As for the general consumer, it would never work. Their experience with diesel is either what their parents told them or that crusty clunker Mercedes down the street that's turning 500,000 miles next week.

OMG DA DIESEL LIKE SMELLS REALLY BAD AND DEYRE LOUD AND LIEK SMELLY AND SOOT AND BLAK SMOKE AND I HERD DEY LACK WHORES PWR AND STUFF

...which was somewhat true back in the days of the gutless diesel Buick Century, Cadillac DeVille and Nissan Maxima, but has been non-applicable as recently as the 1995 overhaul of the mighty TDi. But here in America, stigmas stick.

...I don't care, bring over a diesel Fit anyways so I can buy one.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 2 minutes, 33 seconds ago)

Nissan Maxima

One of these days I'll put this LD28 crank I have in my storage to use...

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 13 2010, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 5 minutes, 11 seconds ago)

I thought most of the first GM diesels (For mostly Passenger Cars) were crap since they half-assed it by using Diesel heads with Gas engine blocks? They're thinking a little TOO simple when they tried to copy Mercedes with their 240D....

Posted by: Rudy Jan 13 2010, 09:25 AM

You're close, JXZ. Uncofmortably close.

GM's first cracks at in-house diesels were literally a 262 V6 and a 350 V8 CONVERTED to diesel in 1978, brought on by the Oil Embargo panic and gas shortages. Zero block/head/internal reinforcement was done on the first generation 'D' block variant, that's why they failed miserably. Then came the DX block, which was a bit stronger which was sold as standard equipment on the diesel trim MY1982 cars and optional on the Delta 88 and LeSabre, featuring a stronger crank and pistons as well as some other better internal upgrades.

By August 1981, the 350 diesel was finally a solid engine. Still, by MY1982 the damage had been done, and after a sluggish MY1985 and gas prices returning to 'comfortable' levels, GM went back to petrol-powered only. The 262 diesel V6 only lasted MY1981-1983, and was not deemed nessecary to improve upon, for the famous Fireball V6 had just gone fuel injection, a new 60* 181 cubic in. had entered the foray with significantly higher horsepower levels and matching fuel economy, without the woes of the 262D's reliability.

By 1986, the only thing diesel that GM sold was a tough-as-nails naturally aspirated pushrod V8 diesel collaboration designed from the ground-up with Detroit Diesel and AM General (yes... the same engine still being used in the military Humvee) for truck use only and that unkillable engine would live on in the trucks into the mid 2000's before it was phased out by the almighty Isuzu Duramax. <3

Still, the old 350 diesels are an interesting piece of Americana and a very significant sign of the times and how desperate car manufacturers were to try to improve fuel economy. I love them. :3

YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6qqBM57us8&feature=related )

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 13 2010, 09:37 AM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 11 minutes, 35 seconds ago)

Still, the old 350 diesels are an interesting piece of Americana and a very significant sign of the times and how desperate car manufacturers were to try to improve fuel economy. I love them. :3

YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6qqBM57us8&feature=related )

That engine will literally drive me insane. Right from starting it... I would have preferred an OM617 engine over that...

Posted by: MattW Jan 13 2010, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 36 minutes, 33 seconds ago)

YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6qqBM57us8&feature=related )

That's the very engine that killed diesel in the States.

[ot]
Also, why do you always type like such a weaboo, seriously, it's annoying, you're a grown boy.
[/ot]

Posted by: Shirogane Jan 13 2010, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (MattW @ 8 minutes, 3 seconds ago)

[ot]
Also, why do you always type like such a weaboo, seriously, it's annoying, you're a grown boy.
[/ot]

Hey, it's how people like to type.

---

I still blame GM for tarnishing Diesel in the first place, considering the history Dori had posted. Which is why, for most people..

Mercedes>That. There will be people who think otherwise, ala TommysBrownCaddy.

Posted by: Drew Jan 13 2010, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (WRX DEMON Type R @ 8 hours, 43 minutes ago)

What's with everyone and their mothers copying the Audi style front "mouth".

Image size reduced, original size: 1000 x 667. http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-011.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

Not quite sure what you mean...

Oh, and that Diesel is a complete turd...almost as bad as the Mercedes Diesels used in the wagons.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 04:54 PM

I see old Mercedes Diesels still running all the time though, and that's something I cannot say for those GM's.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 8 minutes, 5 seconds ago)

I see old Mercedes Diesels still running all the time though, and that's something I cannot say for those GM's.

Quite true. Odd you mention this too, I was talking to a former co-worker back in Germany the other day, and the group DD we had for emergencies, an archaic Merc 300D we bought for 250 bucks, is still being driven around the area.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 2 minutes, 48 seconds ago)

I don't think those cars can die, I've seen some pretty high mileage examples myself.

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 5 minutes, 38 seconds ago)

I don't think those cars can die, I've seen some pretty high mileage examples myself.

Oh yea, you look on autotrader and you'll find a ton easily in the 250k range. I agree, they dont die, their owners just get bored of them. 0-60 in 7... months kinda sucks.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 2 minutes, 28 seconds ago)

Oh yea, you look on autotrader and you'll find a ton easily in the 250k range. I agree, they dont die, their owners just get bored of them. 0-60 in 7... months kinda sucks.

Oh yeah, those are the "before turbo" days. I looked at Mk.II Jetta's before, slow as molasses too.

Posted by: Drew Jan 13 2010, 05:17 PM

Yep...I swear diesel Merc's are nuclear holocaust proof. My dad had a friend back in college who bought one used with 50k miles on it in '87 for $5000, and sold it 3 years later for $6500, and with 150k on the odometer. They just won't die.

But back on-topic, I still am utterly disappointed in this car. When I was growing up, I always wanted to at some point in my life own a CRX. This is just some cheap marketing BS that the Honda PR team passed off as a successor to such a great shitbox of a car.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Thir13Teen @ 2 minutes, 10 seconds ago)

Agreed, I think it's a blasphemy to the name myself. >_<

Posted by: flohtingPoint Jan 13 2010, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 3 minutes, 4 seconds ago)

Agreed, I think it's a blasphemy to the name myself. >_<

Its the same thing with the new "AE86". They took everything that was great about the car (simple interior, light weight, simple motor, electronically stupid, no frills) and tossed it out the window for something that is the total opposite of it.

Posted by: Möbius Jan 13 2010, 05:23 PM

QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ 1 minute, 12 seconds ago)

Yes, exactly. The new Scirocco is not too bad as far as that is concerned, but the Mk. II was already a bit of a pig compared to Mk. I.

Posted by: Drew Jan 13 2010, 05:47 PM

Ah, yes Model Bloat, you always let us down!!! This car's about as bad (if not worse) than the Challenger with that 4000(?) pound curb weight.

Posted by: Fast Dec 10 2010, 02:12 PM

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/254419/

According to autocar, two gasoline inline-4 turbo engines will be fitted to the CR-Z. One will have 160 hp while the other will have 200 hp (likely to be in the Type-R model). The new turbo-4 is also to make its way into the Jazz (Fit), Accord and Civic.

If that article is true, then its great to know that Honda won't be turning as beige as Toyota is anytime soon!

Posted by: Alex Dec 10 2010, 02:41 PM

Want to mention I saw one of these on the roads. Looks just as sharp in person as it does in the pictures.

Posted by: chillined Dec 14 2010, 10:57 AM

Image size reduced, original size: 672 x 448. http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Mike%20Garrett/01Nov/SEMA/three10.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

I'm digging it. Although it's really non-Honda to go with a turbo engine, I guess it's to compete with similar competitor turboed eco-cars.

But, this is something I wanted to bring up. If it's turboed, that means either two things, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Turbos, as we know, can be sized for an optimum rpm range where the efficiency of the turbo is the highest. And they also add to the cost of the car. So my take is, if the turbo is optimized for medium to high revs, the cost will be lower than say a VGT Turbo. But if Honda used a VGT turbo, the optimization of the rev range would be in total for the turbo. So the question is, how much will the turbo add to the cost and what kind of turbo will Honda run with? (To be honest, I really do hope it's the VGT, because companies like Porsche and even the new Chevy Cruze uses them.)

Posted by: MattW Dec 14 2010, 11:19 AM

QUOTE (chillined @ 21 minutes, 44 seconds ago)

Although it's really non-Honda to go with a turbo engine...

Pfffttttttttttttt.

user posted image

1,5l V6 tubo, 1200hp.

Posted by: chillined Dec 14 2010, 11:58 AM

That compressor housing is a beast. Triple Plate clutch

Posted by: Drew Dec 14 2010, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (MattW @ 4 hours, 8 minutes ago)

Pfffttttttttttttt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Honda_RA168E_engine_Honda_Collection_Hall.jpg

1,5l V6 tubo, 1200hp.

Such a crazy era...same era s the 4-cylinder BMW motor that made 1000+, I believe.

Oh, and I might consider buying one of these cars...in ten years or so. Why you may ask? So I can do this.
http://jalopnik.com/5713478/honda-cr+z-%252B-k20-+-ima--kr+z

Posted by: Shirogane Dec 14 2010, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (MattW @ 4 hours, 15 minutes ago)

Pfffttttttttttttt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Honda_RA168E_engine_Honda_Collection_Hall.jpg

1,5l V6 tubo, 1200hp.

There's also the "Wing Turbo" variant for the Legend, which had the C20AT engine.
user posted image

Image size reduced, original size: 800 x 600. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2602/3663503477_c3d9cbb2b6_o.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.

Posted by: MattW Dec 14 2010, 03:38 PM

^Yeah, but that's really lame and doesn't make 1200hp.

Posted by: Rudy Dec 25 2010, 09:09 AM

As soon as the CR-Z drops hybrid and adds turbo for the U.S. Market, it's on my Watch List.

Posted by: Shirogane Dec 25 2010, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 4 hours, 16 minutes ago)

As soon as the CR-Z drops hybrid and adds turbo for the U.S. Market, it's on my Watch List.

Probably not going to happen. It has with the RDX, only the turbo is supposedly claimed that it won't lag.

Posted by: Rudy Dec 25 2010, 01:27 PM

Don't doubt Honda. They do have a habit of answering the enthusiast's call.

Posted by: Shirogane Dec 25 2010, 01:36 PM

QUOTE (Midnight Drifter @ 9 minutes, 2 seconds ago)

Don't doubt Honda. They do have a habit of answering the enthusiast's call.

Right, when they fell through with the NSX's successor, claiming financial issues.

They even f**ked up the Legend, for f**k's sakes.

Posted by: Rudy Dec 25 2010, 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Ken Nōgami @ 8 hours, 45 minutes ago)

Right, when they fell through with the NSX's successor, claiming financial issues.

They even f**ked up the Legend, for f**k's sakes.

Do you even have a remote clue how much the LF-A project cost Toyota? I don't blame Honda for not immediately having a from-the-ground-up, technologically outwitting their rival in the name of trying to improve their current stagnating lineup.

Although I'd stray away from whatever they were smoking, after seeing the end result of those funds diversions. (Accord Crosstour)