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Views: 3,423  ·  Replies: 14 
> Karting, Under wet conditions, with slicks.
DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 1 2011, 03:24 AM


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I have a competition coming up this sunday, and had a practice run today.

As you might be able to guess from the title, the track was ridiculously wet due to the stormy weather we're experiencing. This translated to drastically reduced levels of grip. My usual dry times of 45 seconds shot up to 54. I'm pretty sure I spun out at least three times and hit the tire barrier more than a dozen times.

I'd like to ask how one should deal with the massive amount of understeer you get when you try to turn on a patch of road that's liberally wet. 90 degree bends with fast entries are where I suffer most with this.

The oversteer at this point seems uncontrollable to me if I lose traction coming out of a turn.

I've been told to slow down drastically by the person who owns the place, but I'd like second opinions. He also mentioned that throwing out the rear before I enter the said 90 degree bends would help me line up the kart for the next turn.
Spaz
Posted: Sep 1 2011, 07:55 AM


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Steering with the rear may help a bit, but at the end of the day, you're still driving a vehicle that weighs absolutely nothing in the wet on slicks. You've got little to help with keeping heat in the tires unless you can go fast in the corners, and you can't go fast enough in the corners in those conditions.

But Floh will have plenty of insight on this I'm sure.
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DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 1 2011, 08:30 AM


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That was actually one of the first things that came to my mind the first time I came into a corner at dry speeds at full lock, and nothing was happening. I'm not sure I can control it that well though; unless the answer is more throttle control practice. It's a bit late into the game for that.

The weight caught my attention though. You seem to imply that more weight might help. How is this so?

Downforce I can understand, but wouldn't the extra mass and downward force due to gravity be canceled out by the lateral force the Kart exerts?
MetalMan777
Posted: Sep 1 2011, 06:33 PM


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Can you groove or sipe your tires? I'm pretty sure that's illegal in most forms of racing, but with karts, you never know. If you're hydroplaning, there's not a lot you can do. There simply isn't any traction between rubber and water. Remember the basics: slow in and fast out. Brake in a straight line. Accelerate in a straight line too, you don't want to suffer from snap oversteer.
DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 1 2011, 07:38 PM


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Everyone's using the stock Karts that are on the track, so no I can't modify the Kart in any way, aside from putting my weight on it, of course.

Found this.
http://www.karting1.co.uk/wet-karting.htm

Of particular interest in the article was this:
QUOTE

1. When you brake hit the pedal in a short sharp motion, enough to get the rear tyres to lock almost and bite into the track. A nice gentle push on the brake just won't do because it kills the kart. We want the kart to feel quite lively, and you need to get it working and biting so you can get a feel for what grip is available. Also, you want to reduce the amount of time on the brakes and braking needs to be out of the way before you turn in.

2. Remember we are taking a wet line away from the rubber. So we turn into the boot very very late. And when you turn the wheel you snap it into full lock...hard and fast.


This makes me arch an eyebrow since I was taught to do things as smoothly as possible. Not to be violent when driving conditions are already less than ideal.
Spaz
Posted: Sep 2 2011, 08:27 AM


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Except for the fact that the karts have their clutch attached to the brake pedal, so you really do need to be all the way off the gas and on the brake or you will kill the kart. Or at the very least burn out the clutch and piss people off.

If you lock the tires, you back off on the brakes, you need to learn the limits of what you can and can't do with the kart in those conditions.

The other big thing to remember is that seemingly violent or aggressive inputs don't necessarily mean you aren't being smooth... as long as the body, weight, and grip are transferring smoothly you're still okay.
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Alex
Posted: Sep 3 2011, 11:23 AM


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Going dry speed into a corner and going full lock is basically the same as driving into the wall. I can only speak from what I can assume, but I would think you need to listen to the course owner and tone it down going in and make up for it coming out. I'm sure you're no stranger to the saying "slow in, fast out."

Can you talk to any of the drivers you'll be competing with? surely they're having the same issues
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DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 3 2011, 03:47 PM


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That I am not.

If that's the case, then this is only a matter of self discipline. My first instinct is to always preserve as much momentum as possible; and I suppose we can see where that brought me.

I do hope my worries are unfounded. Today looks sunny and dry right now. The race itself is in an hour or so.
Alex
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 07:57 PM


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So, how did your race go?!

This post has been edited by Alex on Sep 4 2011, 07:57 PM
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flohtingPoint
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 08:19 PM


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If you cannot configure the kart to tailor to your driving, part of the battle has been lost. I doubt they moved the front hubs out and rear hubs in (two musts in wet conditions) and if you were still on slicks then that too is a nightmare. If the ground is even remotely damp I put my rains on.

What type of kart were you driving? What motor, brake setup, tires, etc?
DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 4 2011, 10:07 PM


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I know next to nothing about the Kart, other than the fact that it is a Kart. The only thing I can give you is that the brakes are only applied to the rear, if that isn't standard.

We were allowed to change Tire Pressure at the last minute, but since I had no experience with this, I chose not to. My preconceptions were that lowering tire pressure would give me more grip and increasing it would give less, but a little voice in the back of my head said that I didn't know the whole story, and that I shouldn't run around places I didn't know.

The race was, thankfully, on a dry sunny day. Irritating, if you consider that the practice run was about as waterlogged as a shipwreck. We drew numbers for the Karts, had a practice run, then two qualifying rounds. One for all the competitors, the second for those in the top 6 out of 12. I managed to make 5th on the grid. The race began with a running start. There was much shoving before the green flag was waved; accidental or not, I cannot be sure.

The usual track was extended with a long, straight bit that dove into a fast, shallow right curve which turned into a hairpin without straightening. If nothing else, trying to figure out how to take this corner was fun. Tried everything from trail braking into it to drifting coming in.

I had a blowout in the front right tire early on, so they threw me a spare Kart. Once they replaced the tire, the gave me back my old one, until I got called into the pit again for some reason. ( I didn't ask; the clock was ticking. I just got into the other replacement and went. ) I found it irksome that the replacement Karts were more responsive, though not necessarily faster, than the one I drew lots for. They all revved quite happily coming out of hairpins, whereas my original kart would putter for an agonizing while before finally deciding to climb. The brakes on the others also had FAR more feel compared to the squishy sponge I was using.

Not sure if any of my feelings there are valid however, since the Karts were tested before the race began, and were found to have half a second of a difference between them.

I'm still a little suspicious that it was my misfortune to get the runt kart, however.

I placed 7th in the end. It was an hour and 30 minutes nonstop, so by the time I finally got out for good, I couldn't walk right for a while with my legs all unresponsive. My palms protested every time I put pressure on them, and the ends of my fingers felt like they were being torn apart since I was using them instead of my whole hand to turn the wheel. The rest of my upper torso began complaining after I fell asleep.

Humorously, skin from my rear end was missing. awesome.gif That must have been alot of squirming in the seat.

This post has been edited by DigiBunny on Sep 4 2011, 10:10 PM
flohtingPoint
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 11:42 PM


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Since you're dealing with not many constants and far too many variables, your situation is fairly chaotic and not anything I deal with as I own and operate my own kart(s). Instead of talking about the kart and it's setup, lets speak about karting in general.

First, you want to have proper gear. You NEED a rib protector as I cracked a couple early this year. You also could benefit from some proper gloves and a real neck protector (I use a 360 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=3...ved=0CGkQ8wIwAQ ).

Karting is a very physical sport, there is power nothing and everything you do in the vehicle is pure strength. I'd suggest neck and bicep/tricep workouts. Those are going to be your big problem areas in karting. This week I woke at 3 am and was unable to get back to sleep due to karting for 5 days straight before then, I was in immense pain in my arms and could hardly move.

-Regardless of course/setup, you always want to give up big to get the rewards. iIf you have to tuck for a section, dont feel bad about braking early. ALWAYS practice proper setup, if you get off line, get back on immediately and do not think you can make up time by cutting things short.

-Concentration is key, you need to be focused 100% of the time. Things are coming at you fairly quickly (I'm assuming you're driving a tag of some sort and not a shifter, so it's not terribly quick but still quick enough), always be thinking two or more corners in advance.

-LOOK AHEAD, I cannot stress the fact that you need to look at least 3 seconds in the future. You have to see the forest through the trees. You must be an anticipatory driver, not a reactionary driver.

-Ignore everyone else. If you have no control over the kart other than tire pressure, f**k everyone else at the circuit. They're worthless to you in terms of gathering knowledge. Worry about yourself and only yourself when you're running. Block out the fact that there are other people there. This is not to say you should be a bad sport or go against any sporting code, this is just to say that you need to be focused on yourself. After the race, take folks out for brews/food/whatever, hang out and trade driving experiences. During and before the race, you should only be concerned with yourself and what you have to do.

-Do not ever be intimidated. In the end we're all human, nobody is a machine. Some may have more experience or more natural talent, but this doesn't mean that you cannot be better than them. Dont back down, dont yield if you do not have to, and by all means do not ever accept that someone is better than you. This past week I competed in the SCCA National Championships and was 20th out of 34 top karters in the nation. I'm on a first name basis with all 33 of these other karters, not one of them is robokarter. All of them have more experience and some of them have more natural talent, but I'm convinced with enough work that I can be at the top. My point: I'm not intimidated and I know my goals. Stay the course.
DigiBunny
  Posted: Sep 7 2011, 05:31 AM


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I went another 2 rounds with a friend. She seemed to optimize cornering speed and early acceleration whereas I would trail brake up to the apex of a hairpin and accelerate without much tire squeal. Eventually I passed her after 3 laps.

Thoughts, gentlemen? Today suggests preserving traction over momentum in tight corners is optimal.
flohtingPoint
Posted: Sep 7 2011, 06:39 AM


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Without knowing what motors, what weights, what track surface, what tires, what tire size, what temp it was outside, what the track looks like exactly, no answer can be given.
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Sep 19 2011, 09:53 PM


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QUOTE (flohtingPoint @ Sep 5 2011, 12:42 AM)
Karting is a very physical sport, there is power nothing and everything you do in the vehicle is pure strength. I'd suggest neck and bicep/tricep workouts. Those are going to be your big problem areas in karting. This week I woke at 3 am and was unable to get back to sleep due to karting for 5 days straight before then, I was in immense pain in my arms and could hardly move.

This is key. Also, I suggest legit forearm exercises (particularly the top sides), as after I go karting, my forearms are usually pretty sore... and I normally exercise a lot (several hundred pushups daily, running a few miles at least two or three times a week, etc.).