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> Troubleshooting your cars, Help source concering your everyday car problems...
Gunma's 34
  Posted: Nov 18 2009, 06:00 AM


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Maybe it's something natural. My CR-V reaches points like that where when I start the engine, it'll stay past the 1K rpm then after a few throttles in neutral, it'll die down to the natural 1 K... Well, that's how I look at it.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 18 2009, 09:12 AM


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I'm guessing it's a vacuum leak, which'll be fixed anyway when I install and pressure test my new intercooler.
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Bubs
Posted: Nov 18 2009, 05:50 PM


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Well, my car is still hesitating.

The car:
1992 Saturn SL1, +/- 120,000 miles (odometer broken)
SOHC, 5-speed

The problem:
Car hesitates at high speeds. Bucks occasionally at lower speeds but is much more pronounced at 60mph+

At lower speeds, there is generally no hesitation. I can be at 3000rpm in third gear, put the pedal down and get to 4,000+rpm without any issues. Sometimes it bucks a little bit but not often. When accelerating to highway speeds and above, there is a ton of hesitation and bucking, particularly at or above 60mph. It does not matter if I am in 4th or 5th gear.

Parts:
New plugs and wires (In February, well before problem started)
However, I did not put any dielectric grease on the boots.
Just replaced EGR valve and fuel filter, did not affect anything.
New brass-tipped ECTS in March
New air filter
Not throwing any codes
Attempted "on-car" throttle body cleaning. Not enough?

Other current issues:
Leaky valve cover gasket - not severe but it's there

Any input on what I can check next is greatly appreciated. I need to start commuting to work on the highway every day of the week starting next week, so fixing this problem is crucial.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 18 2009, 08:25 PM


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Sounds to me like something load based.

May sound silly, but make sure the spark plugs haven't backed out any, could be causing a small compression leak.

I'd also check the O2 sensor voltage. Remember, it's an OBD1, it's not going to throw codes for anything.
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Bubs
Posted: Nov 19 2009, 08:53 AM


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I went for a drive with the Tech-2 installed and found this:

Note the RPM fluctuation and scattered readings on the o2 while the throttle position remains constant.

I'm thinking defective plugs, plug wires or a bad coil is causing a misfire under load. Unfortunately since my car is OBD-I I cannot tell which cylinder, if any one, specifically is misfiring.

user posted image
DownhillFR-S
Posted: Nov 21 2009, 11:43 PM


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I have one thing to throw in here.. On my AW11, the voltmeter needle sits almost on the 'high' mark, maybe a few notches below, consistently. What could be causing this kind of charge?
Cyrus430
Posted: Nov 22 2009, 01:48 AM


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Alright so...

My car runs.. but runs stupid. laugh.gif

The turbos boost... I can tell because of my gauge, but the car doesn't pull as it used to.. It goes but very slowly.. not it idles a bit funky.. the sound is almost as if there's not a lot of air going through it. I checked all the pipes I could, and nothing seems to be the problem..

I will attempt to change the spark plugs and cables just cuz they're in need of a change anyway.. but while I'm at it I will check for anything stupid.. anything I can see with my eye.

So do any of you have any suggestions about what might be causing this?

Remember:

It idles a bit weird at first, until I release the blow off.. where it then idles fine. It boosts but doesn't pull. And it smells lean..

Any suggestions?
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Spaz
Posted: Nov 22 2009, 05:17 AM


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Cyrus, it sounds like a big ol' boost leak to me, if by idling "weird" you mean it idles either "like shit" or "above 1k".

If you're missing, you'll feel and hear it, so I doubt it's your plugs, but they do need to be changed yearly anyway on our cars.
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Cyrus430
Posted: Nov 22 2009, 04:09 PM


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Well changed the plugs... nothing, expected of course.

Now if there's a boost leak, and I can't see it would that mean that it's leaking under load.. therefore only visible under load?

I'm thinking of taking to this guy who can do it for me.. just because I don't have a lot of time because of my job.. dry.gif

Would it be even remotely possible that one of my turbos seized or broke completely?..
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Spaz
Posted: Nov 22 2009, 11:16 PM


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You can have a leak that leaks under vacuum, too. anything between the MAF and any given cylinder can cause it.

Questions to ask yourself to verify that it's not something else:

1) Is your idle all over the place, usually either a few hundred RPMs low or quite a bit high?

2) Has your spool time increased?

3) Did it happen over time or instantaneously (if instantaneously, was there a 'pop' involved)?

4) Can you hear air getting out, either as a high pitched whistle or a loud rush?

If you can answer yes to two of those, pretty sure you've found the problem. Mitsus love to pull this shit no matter how tight your clamps are. Honestly, I'd bet anything that it's just a measly boost leak.

If you can get a chance to pressure test stuff yourself, I'd do each side (turbo to the y-pipe) as one, and work from there. But first, make sure that y-pipe hasn't started backing off, they like to do that, and it can be hard to tell with that rubber seal on the inside.
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Cyrus430
Posted: Nov 23 2009, 01:32 PM


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Well my spool time has actually lowered... I can hear the turbo much louder, and spools way quicker than before.. most likely the one in the back.. maybe.

I can hear air getting out.. just can't find it..

It WAS kinds of instantaneously.. not sure if there was a pop though.

My idle is actually settled at less than 1000.. maybe ~850-900.

It seems like it's a big leak.. but I don't have a lot of time to check.. I've seen some ghetto methods of doing a check.. involving a PCV something and some meter..

It sure seems like it's a leak.. even how it runs.. no missing, no jumpy anything.. just turbo spooling mad crazy and loud.. but no go.. dry.gif
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sideways
Posted: Nov 23 2009, 03:52 PM


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Someone needs to make himself a good ol fashioned home-depot pressure tester.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 23 2009, 05:39 PM


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Here's my manly variation on the standard Home Depot tester, which flows better and doesn't require power tools to make (just don't stab yourself in the thumb with a screwdriver like I did):

user posted image

Then you get a PVC end cap if you want to test just part of the system, and stuff it into whatever coupler you want to end the test at.

If one of the turbos did in fact seize, which I doubt, but it's possible, you could be hearing the air making its way from the working turbo to the seized one, through it, and into the intake. But as I said, I highly doubt that, you'd be more likely to blow the oil seals than seize it.
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Cyrus430
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 12:49 AM


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If the oil seals are gone.. would I in fact see oil leaking every which way?.. Cuz I see no leakage of oil.. never did for that matter.

Man.. stupid leaks.. it's usually the stupidest places where they happen too..

So using this home depot tester, what am I looking for exactly? How do I know how much pressure should be running?

Should I try the Google machine?
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Spaz
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 07:57 AM


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You build the tester, you hook it up to your turbo inlet, you hook up a compressor to the other end, build a little more than what boost level you're running in the compressor tank, then open the tank and pressurize the piping. Anywhere you hear air rushing out, fix.

Also, if you're having trouble locating the leak, get a spray bottle filled with soapy water and spray it in the general area you can hear the air from. where it bubbles up is the leak.
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Möbius
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 08:07 AM


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The stacking of the bush reducers is still funny to me... laugh.gif

A 5/16" nutdriver goes a long way for those kinds of hose clamps ( less stabbed fingers, guaranteed tongue.gif )
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Spaz
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 11:44 AM


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QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 3 hours, 36 minutes ago)
The stacking of the bush reducers is still funny to me... laugh.gif

A 5/16" nutdriver goes a long way for those kinds of hose clamps ( less stabbed fingers, guaranteed tongue.gif )

It may be funny, but that thing'll last through the nuclear holocaust, guaranteed (or your money back?).
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WRX DEMON Type R
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 04:28 PM


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Vivichan's steering wheel makes rubbing noises when I turn the wheel left or right. The sound sounds like something from inside the cabin... Strange...

The other day I was turning the wheel and i heard a momentary CLANG! which then went away... This was during parking lot speed as I was going in to park.

No evident probs when driving, it just makes that feint rubbing sound whenever i turn the wheel...
Möbius
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 05:17 PM


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QUOTE (cmspaz @ 5 hours, 33 minutes ago)
It may be funny, but that thing'll last through the nuclear holocaust, guaranteed (or your money back?).

It wouldn't be any less robust if it used a lower number of pipe fittings... It's the unnecessarily high number of fittings stacked onto one another is what looks funny to me. laugh.gif

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Spaz
Posted: Nov 24 2009, 08:33 PM


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It wasn't unnecessary, that was the least number of fittings I could do it with using what was in stock at the local Home Depot. Otherwise I'd have used fewer. But then again, the height is what makes it so manly. laugh.gif

@Demon:

Everything sounds like it's inside the cabin unless it's sharp enough to obviously come from somewhere else. Any dull noise, like rubbing or grinding, is going to be tougher to pinpoint.

Now, I'm taking your description to mean that it just makes the rubbing noise while the wheel is turning, but not when the wheel is held stationary (even if it's being held at full lock), which would automatically rule out tires, which would rub constantly. I'd start out by making sure there's nothing touching the steering column between the wheel and the rack. Pop the column cover between the wheel and the dash, remove any necessary dash panels, and really get in there. If there's nothing touching in there, pop the hood (and jack it up, if you can inspect it from underneath) and check the column between the firewall and steering rack.

Big things I'd check: any wire bundles and hoses that're close by, as well as the boot where it passes through the firewall.
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Möbius
Posted: Nov 25 2009, 10:47 AM


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QUOTE (cmspaz @ Yesterday, 11:33 PM)
It wasn't unnecessary, that was the least number of fittings I could do it with using what was in stock at the local Home Depot. Otherwise I'd have used fewer. But then again, the height is what makes it so manly. laugh.gif

I can't say I disagree with that... laugh.gif

Home Depot slipped a lot in what used to be stocked years ago. sad.gif
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Spaz
Posted: Nov 25 2009, 04:15 PM


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QUOTE (Apex Carver @ 5 hours, 28 minutes ago)
I can't say I disagree with that... laugh.gif

Home Depot slipped a lot in what used to be stocked years ago. sad.gif

Yeah, and Lowes isn't much better. If I hadn't had time constraints when I built it, I'd have driven the extra 15 minutes to Ace Hardware, they usually have everything.
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HorizontalMitsubishi
Posted: Nov 25 2009, 06:34 PM


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well I've seen a few starions where the turbo oil supply line got plugged up and the turbo seized, So it is totally possible.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 25 2009, 08:38 PM


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QUOTE (sidewaysstarion @ 2 hours, 3 minutes ago)
well I've seen a few starions where the turbo oil supply line got plugged up and the turbo seized, So it is totally possible.

I didn't think about that option. I figured that he'd be blowing oil out both seals if it starved and then seized, but that wouldn't happen if it wasn't seeing oil to begin with.

This post has been edited by cmspaz on Nov 25 2009, 08:38 PM
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Cyrus430
Posted: Dec 1 2009, 06:30 PM


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Well I took it to get checked.. hoses, turbos.. intercoolers.. just cuz.. dry.gif I haven't got the time to do it myself.. if not I'd take the pipes all off and throw in some hard pipes.. now THERE'S a plan.. unless the turbo seized.. which would suck balls..

If the turbo seized what would I be seeing in my Boost gauge? Less vacuum than usual? More vacuum? Stuck at 0?

EDIT--

Found the problem.. the exhaust manifold has a big ol crack down the middle.. it sure explains a lot.. All the air was seeping through until I guess it just went too much for it.. Bought some new ones.. Can't see anything else that would be the problem.. so unless this car has magical properties.. this should fix it.. unsure.gif

But thank you guys for your help.. I will update on the car's condition once the parts are installed.. stupid car laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Cyrus430 on Dec 4 2009, 12:12 PM
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