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> Help! 1993 Toyota Pickup
Insig
  Posted: May 30 2012, 07:00 PM


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Hi guys although I am relativity new to this section of the forums I have been a big time lurker. I have read what I can but I can't seem to figure somethings out.
Problems:
Head gasket failure
Whatever else is lurking in the corner
My pickup is a 1993 Toyota Pickup and it has a 3VZE motor. Unfortunately the engine blew its head gasket about two years ago and has yet to be started since. Now my question to you guys is should I and how do I do a overhaul. Most important what exactly is an overhaul. I am totally new to these terms and to the "inside" of the car. Now for my final question, is there any advice you guys can give about "kits" and how much this might cost me?

P.S.: I know the 3VZE is a head gasket eating machine.
Nomake Wan
Posted: May 30 2012, 07:31 PM


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Assuming just head-gasket-failure-related overhaul, this would entail draining all coolant and oil from the engine, removing the head from the block, having it sent to a machine shop to be cleaned up (optional but recommended), reinstalling the head with a new gasket and putting new oil (and oil filter) and coolant in. I don't know your motor so I can't be any more specific than that. It sounds like you don't really know what you're doing so I'd start looking around for automotive service shops and/or Toyota dealers and ask them how much a head gasket repair is. Shop around.

I have absolutely no clue what you're on about with 'kits' so I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole.
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Rudy
Posted: May 30 2012, 08:33 PM


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Insig
  Posted: May 30 2012, 09:25 PM


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I see, however I have never taken an engine out and I have never replaced an engine. Is it quite easy? Even if I figured out how to replace the engine I kind of want to stick with the 3VZ-E just because I can work out of the hood and fix the car. I have researched this topic and have come up with a link that has been very helpful.
SPOILER

Another question has come up, how do I know which parts need to be replaced.
I am not after a guide per say I am just after a relative vocabulary definition of what a true overhaul needs. I want this trucks engine in brand new condition, ready to be driven for many years to come.

Sorry to take up your time guys, I really do appreciate the help.
Spaz
Posted: May 30 2012, 09:44 PM


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Best thing you can do is drain the fluids and tear the heads off, if worst comes to worst you can throw them back on to pull the motor if you find it's no good and there's rust pitting and other irreversible damage to cylinder walls.

Might as well get a full seal set for the motor, at least a head gasket set, and replace everything you can while you're in there. Sitting is a recipe for leaks and it won't hurt to cover as many bases as possible.
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sideways
Posted: May 31 2012, 12:53 AM


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QUOTE (Insig @ 3 hours, 27 minutes ago)
I see, however I have never taken an engine out and I have never replaced an engine. Is it quite easy? Even if I figured out how to replace the engine I kind of want to stick with the 3VZ-E just because I can work out of the hood and fix the car. I have researched this topic and have come up with a link that has been very helpful.
SPOILER

Another question has come up, how do I know which parts need to be replaced.
I am not after a guide per say I am just after a relative vocabulary definition of what a true overhaul needs. I want this trucks engine in brand new condition, ready to be driven for many years to come.

Sorry to take up your time guys, I really do appreciate the help.

Never apologize for questions like this. Its a huge part of why this sub forum exists.

Sadly to say, from the context of your previous posts- I would completely advise against doing this (headgasket swap, let alone something more extensive) on your own. Its "simple enough" when you know what youre doing, but even with a good guide theres a lot of little things that can be easily missed accidentally thatll end up doing more damage that result in you spending more than it would have been to have had it taken somewhere. Would any of this be "easy" to do? Not unless you already know what youre doing in all honesty.

Id a) recommend taking it somewhere trusted for a headgasket swap, or B.) if you insist on doing it yourself so to speak, i strongly recommend the assistance of someone who knows at least a bit of what theyre doing. If I may ask, do you have access to a good set of tools?

Now if you want to do more and are considering an engine rebuild, here are some things youll want to overhaul this engine to relatively new condition if you choose to do so in the end (again though, see my previous advice):

New Seals (Intake, exhaust, valve stem, engine crank, oil pan casket, valve cover, oil pump if applicable, water pump, head gasket, etc, often many more but this should give you an idea)

Head-gasket. As Nomake poitned out, youll want to have the head checked at a shop. If the headgasket went due to over-heating, or it over heated after the headgasket went, its possible that the head has warped. This will require it to be machined perfectly flat again before being installed. It is ALSO possible to have warped the block, but typically speaking this is "usually" unlikely, but be observant of the possibility none the less. Likewise with the head, of the block is warped it needs to be stripped down and sent to a shop to be machined flat.

New Water pump

New Oil pump

At a minimum you can replace the piston rings. If youre lucky and the hone is good (big if for a lot of engines, but you never know) you can simply re-ring them (though hitting it quickly to break any glaze within the hone would still be advised none the less). If youre not this lucky youll need to have it re-honed at a minimum. You *Can* do this one yourself with a honing tool (easily rented from a lot of autopart stores), but being your first time id suggest having it done by a machine shop.

You however may want to (if not forced to) replace the pistons as well while youre there. As with the rings you "may get lucky" and have a straight swap. If not, youll need to go with over-sized pistons. To do this once again the block needs to go to the shop so the block can be bored out to a larger piston size. Youll need a tool to check the bores top to bottom to make sure theyre true from top/bottom.

Engine bearings. Connecting rod and crank shaft bearings. Youll need a proper gauge to check the journal size and keep an eye out for wear. Any abnormal wearing or scoring on the bearing journals means youll need to have to use oversized bearings. Again this is a job for a machine shop.

This is just the surface of things.

If you can do it yourself, and depending on how cheaply you can get parts, and you get lucky with labor, expect to pay <1000 bucks. If youre unlucky and need lots of expensive parts and labor, expect to pay 1-2000+ bucks. You can likely find a engine rebuilt already for your car in this price range- So keep an eye out for that.

My honest suggestion if you decide to go "down this route"? Consider finding either a good-condition core to swap in, or a refreshed core (wont be fully rebuilt, but will have new seals often). I should bite my tongue but all things considered I wouldnt be surprised to see either of these go for well under 1000 bucks for your car.

Feel free to ask questions, and as always I welcome you to contact me via PM or Aim if youd prefer to talk about it. Im always glad to help when and where I can
s12drifter
Posted: May 31 2012, 03:13 AM


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i rebuilt a VE5Z before.

hope is didnt get to your cams. when i pulled my motor i had a HG failure, opened it up and the cams were rusted, tryed to clean them with emory cloth and it wasnt enough, had to scrap the heads anyway as they were wrapped.

i forget if it's a alumnim block but if it is you need to pull the motor regardless if it's cast iron, most likely not. send the heads to a machine shop to get decked, remember to get a thicker then stock head gasket because once you deck it you're going to be raising compression, you want to keep the same compression.

replace valve seals and have the machine shop check valve guides.

honestly for the money you're going to spend, better off just going to the junkyard and buying a motor from a wrecked toyota. I'm sure your truck was not the only other car with that same motor sure it came in other cars so research.

This post has been edited by s12drifter on May 31 2012, 03:13 AM
Insig
  Posted: May 31 2012, 02:40 PM


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I really do appreciate the advice guys. To answer your question I have access to many tools and access to an auto teacher. I plan to rip out the meat of the car, i.e. Radiator, pumps hoses, and then tow the car to my teachers shop and take apart and rebuild the engine under his eyes.
I have done some research and I was wondering if this set was a good rebuild set.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=380441646225

This post has been edited by Insig on May 31 2012, 02:42 PM
s12drifter
Posted: May 31 2012, 03:29 PM


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I'd use everything there except headgaskets, i would never trust chinese or fail-pro headgaskets. if you're gonna be using new pistons and rods remember to have them balanced with the crank pully crank gear rods pistons bearings, and flywheel and clutch or flexplate with torque converter.

Edit by Kyonpalm: merged unnecessary double-post.

This post has been edited by kyonpalm on May 31 2012, 04:37 PM

(USER WAS VERBALLY WARNED FOR THIS POST)
  - Details: Verbal warning has been issued to this post by kyonpalm on May 31 2012, 04:46 PM.
  - Reasons: Unnecessary double-post. As a rule of thumb, please try to keep your posts at least a few hours apart, instead of within 1-2.
Insig
  Posted: May 31 2012, 05:38 PM


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If I may ask, how in the world did you figure out the head gasket was Chinese?
s12drifter
Posted: May 31 2012, 06:22 PM


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QUOTE (Insig @ 44 minutes, 5 seconds ago)
If I may ask, how in the world did you figure out the head gasket was Chinese?

it's not brand name as in "victor reinz" or something like that.

"master engine rebuild kit" LOL no markings or names pretty sure it's chinese unless stated by on product of packaging.

lol after a while you can easily spot a chinese turbo vs real turbo and lots stuff you can spot that are chinese.

This post has been edited by s12drifter on May 31 2012, 06:27 PM
Insig
  Posted: May 31 2012, 07:14 PM


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Wow! Well that was really amazing, I applaud you! I wanted to ask if any of the other parts are suspicious as well?
MattW
Posted: May 31 2012, 10:49 PM


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QUOTE (s12drifter @ 7 hours, 20 minutes ago)
I'd use everything there except headgaskets, i would never trust chinese or fail-pro headgaskets. if you're gonna be using new pistons and rods remember to have them balanced with the crank pully crank gear rods pistons bearings, and flywheel and clutch or flexplate with torque converter.

Edit by Kyonpalm: merged unnecessary double-post.

FelPro makes awesome gaskets, we use them in the racecar all the time.
s12drifter
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 03:22 AM


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QUOTE (Insig @ 8 hours, 7 minutes ago)
Wow! Well that was really amazing, I applaud you! I wanted to ask if any of the other parts are suspicious as well?

yea they may be chinese but it's fine, it's not like your going to be building a 400hp motor sooo it's fine for a factory application.


@ mattW: i guess i really dont know the Z31's end up blowing them with as little as 200hp 13 bolts per side i really dont know WHY. this is why i tend to stray people away from fel-pro
Rudy
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 06:00 AM


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Spaz
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 06:53 AM


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QUOTE (MattW @ 8 hours, 3 minutes ago)
FelPro makes awesome gaskets, we use them in the racecar all the time.

FelPro makes the factory head gaskets, both regular and MLS, for Mitsubishi.
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s12drifter
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 03:39 PM


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QUOTE (Demon Boost @ 9 hours, 39 minutes ago)
They only work great if you install them properly.

Ask me how I know this. facepalm.gif

I'd use anything fel-pro EXCEPT headgaskets.
MattW
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 07:55 PM


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QUOTE (Demon Boost @ Today, 9:00 AM)
They only work great if you install them properly.

Ask me how I know this. facepalm.gif

well yeah, you're generally supposed to install things properly.

thats kinda common sense.
Rudy
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 08:00 PM


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s12drifter
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 09:09 PM


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QUOTE (MattW @ 1 hour, 14 minutes ago)
well yeah, you're generally supposed to install things properly.

thats kinda common sense.

some things you CAN get away with. example, never a head machined for any of my VG30 blocks and they run fine that way. even now my heads are unmachined and their holding up pretty well considering the abuse i put my car through.


I'm using victor reinz headgaskets. sorry fel-pro just SUCK!

seriously how many people build a engine by the book? or do something automotive related by the book. how many times have i seen a ASE cert shop use impact guns to "torque" wheels... no one does things exactly BY the book and it would be ludicrous to even think everyone goes by that kind of logic

This post has been edited by s12drifter on Jun 1 2012, 09:15 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 10:26 PM


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That you think an ASE shop torquing wheels with an impact wrench is an excuse to not follow protocol is exactly why anyone taking serious advice from you is making a huge mistake. All one has to do is look back at your track record for car and engine building from WME. It's fairly obvious that your presence is a joke, and frankly this joke has gone on long enough.

The OP has been warned. I was originally going to just sit back and laugh at his expense while this nonsense went on but that last comment is about as far as I'll let this one go.
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sideways
Posted: Jun 2 2012, 01:05 AM


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QUOTE (Insig @ May 31 2012, 03:40 PM)
I really do appreciate the advice guys. To answer your question I have access to many tools and access to an auto teacher. I plan to rip out the meat of the car, i.e. Radiator, pumps hoses, and then tow the car to my teachers shop and take apart and rebuild the engine under his eyes.
I have done some research and I was wondering if this set was a good rebuild set.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=380441646225

Id hold off in buying any kind of rebuild kit until you know exactly what you need.
s12drifter
Posted: Jun 2 2012, 04:08 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 5 hours, 41 minutes ago)
That you think an ASE shop torquing wheels with an impact wrench is an excuse to not follow protocol is exactly why anyone taking serious advice from you is making a huge mistake.

I'm not saying to do it that way, hell no. but i have SEEN actual ASE shops use a impact gun because it'll cut down 15mins instead of a torque wrench. (the time is an exaggeration)

please tell me where in my post did i say "do not follow protocol because this and this is a good excuse not to" all I am saying is if you think people seriously follow the rules all the time your insane, thats like saying everyone that drives and has a drivers license follows the rules and never commits a traffic infraction.

no one FOLLOWS the book EXACTLY even if you follow it through until the middle or end well... you still didnt follow it EXACTLY to the end.

This post has been edited by s12drifter on Jun 2 2012, 04:12 AM
Spaz
Posted: Jun 2 2012, 06:39 AM


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They make these things called torque sticks, they allow you to use an impact to torque lugs. If you can't tell me whether or not these shops used one with their impacts on wheels, your opinion on the matter is automatically nullified.

Also, keep talking shit about FelPro, they still made the factory MLS HG that's on my car right now. 24:1 dynamic compression? Boy, they sure do make shitty gaskets!
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Mazda ina Ford guy
Posted: Jun 2 2012, 06:29 PM


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I have used many a Fel-pro gasket without problems, even a head gasket (I'm pretty sure).

I have to caution Insig as well, an engine rebuild is some advanced sh*t, even with a good machine shop to help you. I didn't even consider attempting a crank up rebuild until I had done : alternators, water pumps, radiators, brakes, master cylinders, power steering pumps, starters, (etc.etc.et.al.ad.nausium) headgasket(s) (on a OHC engine, not a pushrod (If you don't know why this is important stop right now)). Even then I used 3 shop manuals, kept an experienced expert on speed dial and budgeted 3 months to do it, in my freinds well equipped garage (parts washer, every tool, socket, and obscure specialty tool you can think of, short of a chassis lift). Swaping an engine is a more manageable for an "weekend warrior" mechanic. This is still a big project, not for a novice.

Torquesticks are spoty, I have used one (95 Ft-lb) and dbl. checked with a torque wrench only to find a 10-15 Ft-lb variance in 16 lugs, not horrible, but not great, considering EVEN torque #'s are more important than the actual # (to a point, Lols), if you run alloys, use a torque wrench.

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This post has been edited by Mazda ina Ford guy on Jun 2 2012, 07:22 PM

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