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|Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Anime and Manga > Sub vs Dub: The Eternal Debate|
|Posted by: APX Jan 25 2015, 12:36 AM|
| inuyasha is back on AS,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
why, why you do this.
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 25 2015, 12:38 AM|
Why would you watch dubbed anime in the first place?
|Posted by: APX Jan 25 2015, 12:43 AM|
| Why AS, why?!
Why play a horrible, horrible show.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 25 2015, 12:49 AM|
I can see oh so many boogers in that upturned nose of yours.
Also, some dubs are superior to the original language. Inuyasha isn't one of those, but oh well.
|Posted by: APX Jan 25 2015, 12:51 AM|
It has been bad all along, the movies were decent, but the overall plot was just so boring.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 25 2015, 12:55 AM|
| It's a Rumiko Takahashi series. Never expect gold when all she ever creates is coal.
Bring back Sealab 2021.
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 25 2015, 12:58 AM|
|Posted by: APX Jan 25 2015, 01:05 AM|
Harvey Birdman, that was gold, and some Aqua Teen too, haven't seen any of the new stuff lately.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 25 2015, 01:25 AM|
| Aqua Teen veered into formulaic territory many years ago. They tried to create odd plots that didn't need to be there. The movie was the first indication of a fall from grace.
I still have my Birdman sets on the shelf. Great series.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 25 2015, 02:23 AM|
|Birdman is kick ass - so is Space Ghost Coast-to-Coast|
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 25 2015, 10:34 AM|
|Posted by: Kerxn Jan 25 2015, 10:46 AM|
hurr durr look at me being edgy. some people have different opinions, learn to accept them or get the fuck out.
|Posted by: Hannah Jan 25 2015, 10:50 AM|
| The only dub I've ever watched that I consider "gold" is FLCL.
also Cowboy Bebop had a really good cast for their dub.
|Posted by: APX Jan 25 2015, 02:21 PM|
|FLCL and Cowboy Bebop are epic, because they only did however many episodes and said 'done'. That's it, that's all we should get and not try to stretch it out, though I see they could stretch out FLCL for another 6 or so episode.|
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 25 2015, 07:00 PM|
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 25 2015, 07:49 PM|
Started watching that a few days ago.
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 25 2015, 08:36 PM|
How do you like it? Is Lum not a miracle of the universe?
|Posted by: THE_HONDA_CG2 Jan 25 2015, 09:09 PM|
|I found the dub of Space Dandy to be brilliant. I also liked what I've seen of Cromartie High School. Not all dubs are bad. Although yes, most of them are kinda bad.|
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 25 2015, 09:29 PM|
Like lum but ten is such a douche bag. Well with 195 episodes + 6 ovas I can keep myself busy with it while I wait a month for the dbkai majin buu-hen subs come out. Btw the fuck are the sub groups for that show are doing? Even though we all seen the original we still want to see the fillerless version.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 12:47 AM|
Go watch Bebop and then go soak your head.
|Posted by: APX Jan 26 2015, 01:02 AM|
|Few episodes are real feels worthy. so good.|
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 01:15 AM|
It's terrible compared to the one John De Lancie has had on shelves for a while. Whatsherface came off like she didn't give a crap about everything going on. John actually cares.
Also, more examples of 24" DUBS that sit better than janky Jappo in your faceholes:
- Hellsing Ultimate
- YuYu Hakusho
- Panty & Stocking
- Outlaw Star
- Cyber City Oedo
- Mongolian Chop Squad (except where they couldn't get rights to record "I've Got a Feeling")
- Rurouni Kenshin
More opinions as time allows. Nobody wins but the argument is eternal.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 12:21 PM|
|Hell Yeah is Hellsing Ultimate off the rocker. I still need to finish that series, pretty sure it's complete by now.|
|Posted by: Nomake Wan Jan 26 2015, 01:04 PM|
Fuck no. It suffered horribly from American-accent-syndrome. YaHIko. MeGUmi. SaNOsuke. It gave me cancer. The dub out takes were fun though.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: SgtXDNX Jan 26 2015, 03:01 PM|
Is that anything like Shira-ishi?
And yeah, Hellsing Ultimate finished like two years ago. Definitely worth a watch, even if the Abridged cast is miles better than the actual one.
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 26 2015, 03:08 PM|
All dubs suck, end of discussion.
|Posted by: APX Jan 26 2015, 04:07 PM|
|And yet they don't, end of discussion.|
|Posted by: Seri Jan 26 2015, 04:11 PM|
|I really like NANA's dub, myself.|
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 04:27 PM|
Ten gets his just deserts a few times, thankfully, but it's hard to root for Ataru when he's such a fucking knob.
Disagree with all of these but CCO in particular is probably the worst example you could have come up with next to a 4kids dub. It's amusing for its over-the-top quality but that's what makes it so bad as a dub. To its credit, the only kind of dub I'd watch is one like that, and purely ironically ("so bad it's good", etc.).
Yes. There is literally no reason for any dub to exist.
|Posted by: tsukikomi Jan 26 2015, 04:38 PM|
Isn't it clear that he wants to be the next golden boy?
I agree with statement fully.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 07:31 PM|
If it weren't for dubs there wouldn't be nearly half as anime fans as there are today. I've encountered way more people who "don't want to read a television show" than those who watch subtitles.
That said, I usually way prefer subtitles. But dubs definitely have their place.
|Posted by: Falbere Jan 26 2015, 07:32 PM|
True that. Without the horrible chinese dubs I wouldn't get to know Initial D.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 07:34 PM|
|This is the part where I ponder if horrible Chinese dubs could be any worse than the "subtitled" DVD box set of Initial D I got ages ago... (long enough that Fourth Stage hadn't even aired yet) seriously Google Transcribe would have done a better job.|
|Posted by: Falbere Jan 26 2015, 07:39 PM|
The dubs were horrible because the chinese voice actors didn't put any emotion to the tone.
I remember god foot saying "hiya." calmly when he is supposed to be like "DORIYAHHH!!!"
|Posted by: Smikey Jan 26 2015, 09:11 PM|
| What kinda dubs are we talking about in here?
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 10:09 PM|
HOW ABOUT FUCK NO LOLOLOL
Is what I'd say if I was a narrow minded fool.
Oh wait, it was already said here.
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 10:13 PM|
Except I actually explained what makes a dub bad.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:14 PM|
|+1. Also, anyone who says dubs are pointless earns +45 w33b points.|
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 10:17 PM|
Recognizing that dubs are pointless =/= being a cancerous weeaboo.
But posting about it on an anime message board does. Fuck.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:19 PM|
Oooh, you think you're so superior, don't you?
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 10:24 PM|
| The dubs vs subs argument has gone on for decades and will never end because it's an argument over opinion. Nissan vs. Toyota. Superman vs. Batman. Perry's penis vs. Bozz' robocock. In less than a day, it's down to "if you're not for X, you're a weaboo". I'd golf clap at the primitive comeback, but I left my gloves in my other clenched asshole.
I like dubs because I watch television like Latin people typically do: in the background. I'm hardly ever watching the screen. Since I'm not by any means a fluent listener of Japanese, subtitles are meaningless unless it's a series that I'm willing to sit my butt down to and focus on, because I'm in another room reading a book or something, not paying much attention. Note that in my list I did not jot down Initial D. I watched that show subbed from the start, love that as the "canon" way to see it, but I also think the Funimation dub was worth listening to. Think outside the box when it comes to the argument. Not everybody sees it as you do. Some people can't even see.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:26 PM|
Thank you, Tessou, for being the voice of reason.
Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd ever say that for as long as I breathed, but you're 100% right on this one.
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 10:30 PM|
I'd tell you to read what I wrote again, but there's no point.
And I'd tip to that, but I left my fedora in the-- hahaha couldn't be bothered to finish that.
Then your point about subs vs. dubs is invalid because you aren't actually watching anything.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:34 PM|
| Nevermind the fact I already did a 5-star job of illustrating why dubs have their place and actually help the non-Japanese speaking anime fandom, right?
Of course not. My opinion means nothing to you.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 10:34 PM|
|That's how I watch/don't watch them NOW, since life has changed and I'm doing other things. Years ago I would watch a lot of things both ways and enjoyed it both ways. Stop thinking so narrowly, and look at it from a broader angle. You took one sentence and called it a lost cause, when I said a hell of a lot more.|
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:37 PM|
|Tessou, forget it, he's too far gone, nothing you say will change his mind or broaden his horizons.|
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 10:46 PM|
...is more like a 5-star job of illustrating anecdotal evidence. If you want me to explain why dubs have no reason to exist, I'll do so, but you're the one who will have to show me what purpose they serve to the media (and I can tell you right now you're not gonna have a good time trying to do that).
What you said boils down to "if I'm actually watching it, I generally prefer subs" and "if I'm not actually watching it, I generally prefer dubs". That explains everything by itself. Whether you watch/don't watch stuff this way now, five years ago, or ten years in the future, doesn't matter. You explained the way you watch(ed) dubbed media and I explained why that doesn't count because you simply weren't watching it. Nothing more to it. If you'd like to have a point against mine, you can use a show that you actually watched dubbed and explain why you preferred said dub.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 10:55 PM|
Alright, I will. On syndicated television, absolutely no networks would want a television show to air which essentially forces the viewers to read what the bleep is going on.
Dubs have their place. Without them, Toonami would never exist. Anime for the most part would never catch on.
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 11:02 PM|
You're completely missing the point. Dubs may make it more marketable because a lot of people don't care about licensing companies localizing shows (and butchering them in the process) but this has nothing to do with whether dubs actually improve the quality of any show. They "have a place" in the American market because - and this is the problem with having to answer to your point because it ends up coming across as elitist opinionated garbage - people don't generally care too much about quality in the media they consume. Yeah, I said it.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 11:04 PM|
| I already mentioned Bebop, among others, but I'll focus on that as an example. I've seen it both ways, and thought the dub track was the superior way to experience it. The original Japanese voices just aren't that good. They don't lend to the atmosphere of the show.
Beck: Mongolian Chop Squad also got a massive upgrade with actual English-speaking people doing the songs. The flow between dialog and singing was better, as there wasn't that jarring break between fluent Japanese and then hack job Engrish singing.
Besides, when I watch anime, I can watch it either way and enjoy it. I did not say or imply "If I'm actually watching it, I generally prefer subs." That all depends on the series in question. If the voices are too grating, I will switch, plain and simple. The dub of Panty & Stocking, while funnier to me in the dub, has some awful voices for the leads, so I watch it subbed. The only reason I go with dubs most of the time now is because I can't understand Japanese without subs. That doesn't mean that I PREFER it. That's just my fault that I didn't learn the language.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 26 2015, 11:04 PM|
| So what you're essentially claiming is that you'd rather see no localized anime than some.
|Posted by: Yosuke Jan 26 2015, 11:13 PM|
| I am probably going to regret everything, but it is elitist garbage :v. Because the mindset of localizations = INSTABUTCHERED is also stupid.
I actually prefer a lot of dubs over the original. Space Dandy and for an older example, Big O, the latter of which is because Japanese Roger Smith is all kinds of dull. Also the setting is basically as unJapanese as you can get so a lot of the voices just -fit- better from a visual standpoint. Hell, I watched a SEA English dub of Emma - A Victorian Romance and, I honestly liked it more because shockingly most of the people could pull off the accent for the era.
Honestly, any viewing method that leads to a person needing to stop for whatever reason is bad regardless. Whether it being a TL note or just a jarring cut :v
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 11:15 PM|
| Big O II was dull either way. The writers didn't know where they were going.
I'M ONE OF THE TOMATOES.
|Posted by: APX Jan 26 2015, 11:29 PM|
|Jebus, I couldn't get into big o for some reason, it was a filler for me when it was on Cartoon Network.|
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 11:32 PM|
|The plot was great until they tried getting too philosophical with it. I liked it when it was Japanese Batman.|
|Posted by: APX Jan 26 2015, 11:34 PM|
|I think the only show id love to come back, better yet, finish, is Samurai Jack. I really loved it.|
|Posted by: Yosuke Jan 26 2015, 11:37 PM|
|Given how Gendy probably lost all will to do cartoons after Symbiotic Titan, you're just gonna have to be content with Jack's continued comic book adventures.|
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 26 2015, 11:38 PM|
|I'd go further back and kick WB in the pants to revive Batman TAS and Batman Beyond. Both were cut off at rather inopportune points despite being brilliant.|
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 11:48 PM|
| I know my argument is unpopular, so I'll define it more clearly before addressing this.
Anime is Japanese animation. The original script for the stories is typically in Japanese. The original dub is typically in Japanese. It's done by actors that the production house for the series hired and deemed most suitable for the roles. Dubs take translated scripts (now no longer in their original language) and take further liberties with the dialogue to make accommodations for lip-syncing, and sometimes even localization (which can blatantly disregard the original script's intent). The actors voicing these roles are different and not chosen by the production house (read: the people who CREATED the series) but rather by the licensing company in whatever particular country. This is, by its very own nature, bastardizing the media. You're no longer listening to whatever show you're supposedly watching. This is the auditory equivalent of replacing rice cakes with burgers on screen simply because it's easier for an American audience to consume. Subs being better than dubs has nothing to do with opinions (although you can go off on a million tangents involving opinions, which I keep seeing here). It has everything to do with the simple objective fact that the best way to consume any media is in its original form (with some exceptions).
These are opinions.
Your reading comprehension is really something to behold. I never said anything about what I want to see more of or less of. I don't care whether dubs exist or not. I'm only saying that they have no reason to exist and are an objectively inferior deviation from an original work of art.
No, as I explained above, localization does actually exactly mean "instabutchered" by its own nature.
This still doesn't matter, but does make me consider one thing - I think you could have an argument for a dub being a valid alternative if the creator(s) of the original work acknowledge it as a more authentic way of experiencing their work. For instance, if Chiaki Konaka said the English dub of The Big O was actually the definitive way to enjoy the series, you could then say that the English dub is superior to the Japanese original. And yes, as unfortunate as it may seem, this does mean, for instance, that George Lucas' director's cuts of the original Star Wars films are more canon than the originals if he so chooses to accept them as such, because whether someone likes them or not is simply his/her opinion.
Having watched anime for most of my life, I've never once found having to stop to read a TL note (largely a thing of the past, I'll mention) an issue. The "but reading is haaarrrd" argument is so worn out, it's irritating to read.
|Posted by: APX Jan 26 2015, 11:51 PM|
God yes, this times a billion.
Batman Beyond would fit well in this era, but who knows!
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 26 2015, 11:56 PM|
I explained why it's not a matter of opinions, but sure, that's fine too.
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 27 2015, 12:01 AM|
I know exactly what you meant, so don't insult me.
But here, I'll clarify - for the third time - the point I'm trying to get across isn't the goodness (or lack thereof) of dubbed anime, it's its relevance to popular culture. If the licensing companies didn't produce a show in the audience's native tongue, then anime as a whole would NOT have caught on and/or become the staple it is today.
I'm done arguing with you on this subject. You can either accept it or continue to denounce it, in spite of its cultural relevance.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 27 2015, 12:01 AM|
| No, you're not. You're disregarding anybody's argument by saying that what they say is simply opinion because it's not factual. Are dubs better? Are subs better? There's no fact there. We can dive into semantics of why dubbing is altering the media and so it cannot be taken as the "true" version, but that has nothing to do with enjoying it unless it's become an obsession.
I like em both. The end. Nobody can be wrong.
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 27 2015, 12:03 AM|
Of course it's plenty relevant to popular culture. I'll also say for the third time that it's not about that - it's about relevance to the source material itself.
|Posted by: Yosuke Jan 27 2015, 12:17 AM|
| I knew I would regret it, and will probably not continue on after this, because you are also "arguing" from an opinion that "It's japanese and should thus stay that way forever!", the ultimate form of elitist bullshit in this reclusive fandom. If your "Facts" had more meat to them beyond "I dislike whitewashing" or "Somehow all dubs/localizations completely change creator intent" then sure, I'd have maybe considered it, but alas.
I didn't even say it's because "reading is hard", the enjoyment of media should be seamless, regardless of audio. Some people simply want to see what's going on without needing to have a second thought on something. Unless you want to get mad at some replacing an animated 2ch post going "wwww" with "lololol"
The only reason I use Big O as an example because it's also the only case of something getting a second season purely because of the dub. Yes, all CN did was chuck money at the studio, but did dubbing the show change anything? not really. The dialogue is largely the same, at best maybe some Japanese saying gets replaced with a more convenient one. There's not even food existent to be crudely edited out, and the blood is still all there.
Not once have I preached something being superior or being invalid. People enjoy things, how people enjoy them shouldn't affect you.
|Posted by: Hannah Jan 27 2015, 08:56 AM|
So, you think you can speak on behalf of all the kids and teens who watched Toonami in the early 00s?
You think that they didn't care how Goku sounded on TV when it first aired, that they weren't criticizing dubs and subs and comparing it to the illegally-gained fansubs they bought at the mall prior OR post? What about Robotech? Sailor Moon? Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw star? Or Saint Seiya for that matter?
Or is it just a rarity that all the kids in my school who actually admitted to watching "japanimation" [as it was called back in my day [lol].] would take that into consideration?
Hell, I wouldn't have been familiar with voicechasers.com website alongside Napster and Kazaa [again, back in my day]?
Seriously, I think you and Rudy should have ended this fight before it even started. You two sound like 2 pugs snorting and snuffing and yapping at each other; it's funny at first, but gets annoying real quick.
seriously, you two sound like a bunch of retards; fighting over who is more retarded.
And for the record, I don't give a fuck about subs or dubs. As long as it's not garbage like "Bonjour Sweet Patisserie" or "Cute boys High school earth defense club", it could be dubbed in German with Spanish subtitles. No Fucks Given.
|Posted by: Nomake Wan Jan 27 2015, 11:06 AM|
| Kyonpalm you just out-weaboo'd WRX Demon. I would prove it with numbers but I'm on my phone and the mobile theme doesn't allow multi-quote. Stay tuned.
The short of my response to the whole sub vs dub thing is that I agree with Tessou, Rudy and Yosuke though.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: kyonpalm Jan 27 2015, 11:20 AM|
Funny you say that, because this is the least-retarded argument I've ever had with him.
>implying this is about being a weeaboo
I made a point of explaining that any media is best consumed in the form its creator(s) intended - which is typically (in the case of anime) its original language (which happens to be Japanese). It has literally nothing to do with being a weeaboo. I even brought up Lucas' director's cuts as an example.
But yeah, nah, I'm a raging Japanophile just because I care about consuming my media, regardless of origin, in its purest form. Got me pinned. Got any more ebin buzzwords you want to throw out there?
|Posted by: GoP-Demon Jan 27 2015, 12:56 PM|
|For me it's just whatever I see/hear first. I don't think most people like to randomly change so if they hear dub first its ok... if they see sub first its ok...|
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 27 2015, 01:28 PM|
| It really baffles me how you think dubs, regardless of execution is irrelevant to the source material. If the voices are well-acted, the dialogue is on-point and the dub doesn't suffer from Speed Racer syndrome, then why do you insist it isn't relevant?
Dubs, as a whole, are a good thing. And I'm not just talking about English dubs. I speak for all languages when I say this. They do and as Falbere proved have provided exposure to audiences. Through that exposure they've helped given anime a global reach and thus, through TV ratings, syndication, the new streaming systems and what not have ultimately at the end of the day provided the artists with more resources.
Yes, there are a ton of anime that aren't dubbed. But the more popular ones that have been have certainly gained wider acceptance through allowing monolingual viewers whose native language isn't the same as the original voiced material to sit back and enjoy the visual material without the need to constantly have their eyes glued to the bottom of the screen to make sure they haven't missed a line.
Just saying that isn't relevant since it's not the original language release is a statement that is saturated with elitism. What you're essentially telling us is, "since it isn't in OG audio, it's not good enough for anyone."
|Posted by: Yosuke Jan 27 2015, 01:29 PM|
| I guess no adaptations/most media should exist, since you could pretty mmuch extend the goalpost to a retarded degree. I mean anime/cartoons/movies are just butchered manga/books/comics which in turn are probably butchered legends of days of yore, which in turn are butchered stories passed down from generation.
If you wanna be purist, sure, go ahead, but shockingly even creators are moving on to try and be worldly. Unless you want to invalidate translations because that moves away from the source since language is funny like that.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 27 2015, 01:36 PM|
|^ On top of that, at the core, there can never be a 100% direct translation of anything to anything. There are so many localized nomenclatures and - as Initial D has shown - words and terms taken from one language and buffed over to fit another language's dialect that I find the whole idea of having it be original and 'pure' by pigeonholing yourself into subs, subs only and nothing but subs to be extremely silly.|
|Posted by: Nomake Wan Jan 27 2015, 02:36 PM|
I'm finally back home and have some time before work, so let's begin the breakdown. In fact, lemme just go ahead and switch from Anzu no Uta to BRE∀K DOWN! because DDR gets me pumped and BeForU is amazing. Ahh....there we go. Now where's my fedora...
In any event, let's begin with this statement right here, shall we?
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but while you may not like dubs and may not agree with their existence, there is 'literally' a reason for them to exist. Your statement is patently false. Dubs exist to increase accessibility to content. You may not personally enjoy watching a dub or may wave a flag proclaiming that any Anime not in Japanese isn't 'real' or is 'bad', but that opinion does not change the fact that the dubbed market does exist for a reason. By making this singular statement you have already begun to roll down Weeb Avenue.
Now, later on in a response to Rudy you then quickly backpedal a teensie bit and move your goalpost, correcting your statement so that rather than the massively broad generalization it was originally it's now 'dubs serve no purpose [to the original media]'. Moving the goalpost does not a coherent argument make. It simply proves that attempting to have logical discourse with you is going to be, in your words, a 'good time'. But hey, I'm all about Happy Days, so why the hell not. Let's continue.
I will start by pointing out that this statement here is once again altering your original argument from 'dubs have no reason to exist' to 'Defend your personal preference'. These two things have nothing whatsoever in common, so I will not attempt to defend a preference as some sort of counter-argument to your point that dubs have no reason to exist. My opionion about the quality of one dub or another will not change the fact that dubs do have a reason to exist, not to mention even if I do defend my enjoyment of one dub or another you can immediately once more pull out the 'anecdotal evidence' card and invalidate it. It's a circular argument.
But once again, I'm a raging masochist, so I'll even answer the question you asked Tessou! I prefer to watch Dragonball Z in English, specifically the dub that FUNimation began in the middle of the Freeza Saga and continued all the way to the present. I did not for the most part enjoy the original dub (though it had its funny moments) nor do I enjoy the new dub voices used for Kai and the latest batch of video games. I enjoyed this particular dub because it conveyed very well the emotion and characterizations of the cast and, since this was a fighting Anime, allowed me to become absorbed in what was going on. On top of that, all of my friends who were into Dragonball Z grew up on the same dub, so we were all quite content with it.
I also watched the original Japanese (as for a time most of the movies were not available in English), and having sampled both I still personally prefer the dub to the original. The jury is still out on whether I prefer the original music or the Bruce Faulconer score, but thankfully my DVD collection lets me watch either language with either music track. Thanks, FUNi.
I can even give an example of a show where I am on the fence about preference: Outlaw Star. I absolutely love the English dub--they did a brilliant job of it. The characters are all perfectly personified in English, with Aisha being the screechy annoying catgirl, Suzuka the cool, calm, mature woman, Jim the kid-acting-older-than-his-age, Gene the kid-in-adult-clothes... the list goes on. When I'm introducing the show to others I'll often go with the dub since it's more accessible for many and I've no complaints about its quality.
That being said...the original version was brilliant too. There are a few jokes that didn't quite translate perfectly into English (though the dub did a great job of coming up with new ones that held a similar place, such as 'Death Rob'/'Deaf Rob' in Episode 1), not to mention my favorite voice actress of all time bar-none is Aisha. Yuuko Miyamura is love. So if you asked me what my favorite was, I'd probably go 'ehhhhhhhh...' and tilt my head a few times in confusion. If you asked if I enjoyed the dub though, that would be a resounding 'hell yes'.
Now let's return to your argument for a moment and remind those playing along at home what's at stake. After all, there sure were a lot of words up there.
Whoops. That sounds like you just admitted that dubs have a reason to exist!
Oh, whoops. I forgot, you moved your goalpost. Well, carry on then.
Here comes the WRX Demon. Japan counter for the post I quoted just now: 4. Now, on the other hand you didn't try to tell us that TL NOTE: RAMEN MEANS JAPANESE NOODLES but it certainly felt that way to read. That is, however simply my opinion and has no bearing on the core of the discussion. I just thought it was only fair to elaborate upon my earlier WRX Demon comment.
Once more I will reiterate that this has nothing whatsoever to do with your original argument that 'dubs serve no purpose', and that all but I have managed to fall into your trap and miss the fact that you've moved the goalpost since your original completely senseless statement. As a fun point, however, I will point out that there have been dubs in which the original creator found the dub to be 'worthy'. Examples include Metal Gear Solid, El-Hazard: The Magnificent World, and every Hayao Miyazaki Ghibli film ever.
"Well, those are only..."
Stop there. The point is not the ability to rattle off hundreds of titles. The point is that all that is required to stop your argument dead in its tracks is to provide one example to the contrary. I have provided three, which is more if you actually bother to list out all the Miyazaki films.
That should about cover it. If there's anything I missed, then by all means let's discuss it. Otherwise, can we please return to opinions about fun/good dubs and stop this nonsense about whether they have a 'purpose' or not? I'll even start.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean by a horrendous American accent. Kenshin's dub was exactly as cancerous as that bit in Mirai Nikki. Not to mention neither Sean Connery nor John St John was voicing Deus, so there was no proper replacement for Norio Wakamoto.
|Posted by: Tessou Jan 27 2015, 02:51 PM|
|Fun fact: Cowboy Bebop's creator also said he thinks the dub is superior to the original language. Who could really be any cooler as Spike than Steve Blum?|
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 27 2015, 07:06 PM|
|Another fun fact: The original Japanese PSX version of Metal Gear Solid was in English with Japanese subtitles. Kojima preferred David Hayter and the rest of the amazing voice cast so much that it wasn't until the second release that it got a dub - more specifically, a dual audio release.|
|Posted by: Hannah Jan 27 2015, 07:11 PM|
|I'm seriously about to vomit rainbows because Nomake Wan blew my mind not once, but twice since I last posted. Well played, King N1.|
|Posted by: Seri Jan 27 2015, 07:27 PM|
|MGS is predominantly English first now as a whole, isn't it? Not just the dub.|
|Posted by: Rudy Jan 27 2015, 07:33 PM|
|You're 100% right. Shadow Moses island is in Alaska, the only Asian character in the entire game is Mei Ling - who's Chinese, not Japanese - and FOXHOUND, DARPA etc are all American agencies.|
|Posted by: Seri Jan 27 2015, 07:40 PM|
| I meant more in terms of development, but yeah, that too.
It's gotten to the point where we get the games before Japan.
|Posted by: JeffreySoftbark Jun 12 2017, 10:42 AM|
| I usually prefer subbed anime but if I'm doing something else or I'm just too lazy to read the subs in general (which most of the time I'm not) I'll just watch the dubbed version
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: xiao Jun 12 2017, 12:53 PM|
I think nowadays dubbed anime is a lost art-form, unless it's a big production.
I always liked the option to choose between 2 or more languages on the fly ~ it's a really helpful tool for studying Japanese & other languages.
Likewise you get to hear either good or hilarious dialogue in English, a plus for people like me that are passionate about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_(filmmaking)#Methods, singing, and acting. ♪ ♫
But yeah it's definitely a lost art, usually cause of budget & time constraints. Hopefully the future will still see more good animation both subbed & dubbed tho right!
|Posted by: AllyTheFox Jul 6 2017, 08:47 AM|
| Personally if it sounds good I like it. There are some Subs that I cant stand listening to and there are some Dubs which I cant either.
Some of them I love both. I like what I like and I don't put much thought into it.
|Posted by: umustwait101 Jul 6 2017, 07:44 PM|
| I like subs. Don't like dubs. However, I don't really give dubs much of a chance to impress me since the first thing I do as soon as I hear English come out is to change the language. The only dubs I like are from abridged series. Those are nice. Otherwise, I always get chills and goosebumps from how awkward the dubs are.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: 207 Jul 6 2017, 09:01 PM|
|i prefer subs but i dont have anything VS the dubs for the most part unless i comes to my fav shows. i like both but subs are better as i can listen to my music while i watch anime, ive done that many times already .|
|Posted by: umustwait101 Jul 7 2017, 06:46 PM|
I'm imagining you listening to metal while watching ano hana
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
|Posted by: 207 Jul 8 2017, 05:49 PM|
i havent seen Aoi Hana, atleast not that i remember so ATM. almost any anime is fair game, it depends on the time and what radio stations are playing certain metal programs. lately ive took a break from Zeta Gundam around 19 eps into a re watching. i got too much music and anime to watch. i got several current series i havent been catching up on also.....
im relying on CR and YT for most of the series and usually the ones on YT are those fucking live reaction vids i stay away from those live reaction vids as much as possible.
|Posted by: xiao Jul 9 2017, 12:27 PM|
| I've started playing NieR：Automata and think both Japanese & English dubs are exquisite！
My only gripe with the game is that it doesn't have a Korean dub ~ would've thoroughly enjoyed & learned a bit from that too. ❤
|Posted by: umustwait101 Jul 9 2017, 12:38 PM|
| Since reading this thread, I started dabbling in a few episodes of dubs by re-watching a few episodes of Prison School. Admittedly, many crucial lines had the perfect delivery. However, there are also some lines where either the words or the tone of voice was just inappropriate, making me cringe.
I still think English dubs are inferior to the native Japanese ones. However, it really might be a culture thing. I found that Japanese dubs for My Little Pony is similar in that they get the right delivery most of the time, but there are a few awkward lines here and there that just seem unnatural.
|Posted by: xiao Jul 9 2017, 08:31 PM|
I think as humans ~ we naturally want something authentic & original. When we were kids we were told to settle for what was given to us cause the original wasn't available, or most times nobody ever told us an original ever existed. eg. Robotech & Macross, Sailor Moon, etc etc ☆
I get the feeling Japanese guys our age probably went thru the same thing... which explains why Gackt & other J-rock singers love classic Johnny B Goode American cars, even though they're nothing to oogle over besides aesthetics.
I totally concur tho Umu. I always watch something in its native language first, then try the dub's ~
Tho with technology & the internet nowadays, most stuff not worth watching/playing never gets a localized release, but the stuff that shines gets bi-lingual sometimes even tri-lingual & more ports. Moon Pie ... what a time to be alive ★
|Posted by: Nerubian Jul 15 2017, 08:51 AM|
|I generally prefer subs, but dubs in your native language aren't bad after all, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball Z. Seriously, I can't stand Son Gokus original voice (except when he's a kid in other DB shows). I mean why is such a man voiced by an old women?|
|Posted by: xiao Jul 16 2017, 01:22 PM|
★ I'mma be honest... the abridged DBZ is the maximum version of Dragon Ball：
★ Broly Movie's got some of Vegeta's best badass one-liners too！
|Posted by: umustwait101 Jul 16 2017, 09:56 PM|
This is my favorite episode:
The one before is also good.
|Posted by: AllyTheFox Jul 18 2017, 09:04 PM|
|Tokyopop dub > subs|
|Posted by: umustwait101 Jul 19 2017, 02:27 AM|
Dem fite werds.
|Posted by: Nomake Wan Jul 19 2017, 09:16 AM|
Careful not to cut yourself on that edge.
|Posted by: xiao Jul 22 2017, 09:56 PM|
I'm gradually starting to see the appeal in this editing business _
Image size reduced, original size: 848 x 480. http://imgur.com/pC5qhKN.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.
|Posted by: W.A.R Aug 16 2017, 03:00 PM|
|It really depends what you are most use to. I can deal with either or I have no preference|
|Posted by: JeffreySoftbark Aug 28 2017, 06:23 AM|
Same here unless it comes to the JP voices I'm most used to hearing
|Posted by: xiao Aug 29 2017, 10:16 AM|
★ Dude！Go watch the Ranma OVA's in English !! They're super delicious ～
|Posted by: JeffreySoftbark Aug 31 2017, 02:19 PM|
|Posted by: xiao Aug 31 2017, 10:17 PM|
They just call me XiAlice Available ..
|Posted by: myanime002 Nov 3 2018, 05:26 PM|
FLCL and Cowboy Bebop are epic, since they just did anyway numerous scenes and said 'done'. That is it, that is all we ought to get and not attempt to extend it, however I see they could extend FLCL for another 6 or so scene.