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| Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Automotive Discussion > 2017 Toyota 86 (The "FR-S" in Disguise) |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 17 2016, 11:45 PM |
| Toyota is now bringing out the 86 and making it stand out from the FR-Ses in the US. It looks good imo. http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-toyota-86-first-look-review/ More news on this next week at the New York International Auto show |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 18 2016, 01:32 AM |
| Yeah I saw this earlier. Car looks like total ass with that facelift. |
| Posted by: sideways Mar 18 2016, 02:07 AM | ||||||||
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| Posted by: xiao Mar 18 2016, 04:33 AM | ||||
So how is this not Scion again? 
What is this... I don't even...  So wait wait wait... back to Toyota not being Scion Space Invaders... are the Japs gonna get the face-lift too because lolwut!? I mean I don't see anything on the actual http://toyota.jp/86 site??  It's okay, I can say 'Japs' because I'm in http://twitter.com/lunaswav3 too~  |
| Posted by: RalliKai Mar 18 2016, 04:55 AM |
205 hp must be muscle-car horsepower to that Toyota boardroom.  |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 18 2016, 07:51 AM |
| 205HP is quite good for a car that weighs as much as the FRS. Too bad it's not actually making 205 at the wheels. I think that's the funny part with comparing the FRS to the old turbo Silvias. The tidbit here is that those factory HP numbers on the silvia were very close to what those cars actually put to the wheels. Last I checked, the FRS was a 165whp car. Am I a FRS/BRZ hater? In a way, I sort of am, I want to like those cars, I have good things to say about them, but that engine really kills it for me. In the 4 or so years its been out, ive heard nothing but criticism regarding the powertrain on that car, and that's both engine and transmission. I hear the FA20 engines have their share of problems on their WRX iteration as well, it's certainly lacking enough in R&D that Subaru chose to still use the EJ25 over the FA20 on the current STI. What a shame, Toyota should've ditched the partnership with Subaru on that project when Subaru was being so unsure of it. They should've just shoved an AR engine, mated it to a reliable and proven transmission, and called it a day. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 18 2016, 07:53 AM |
Shut up, Fred. We all know you hate it because the lines suggest it's a FWD platform to your Art-Center-automotive-design-hopeful eyes, not anything to do with its engine.  [ Post made via Mobile Device ] |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 18 2016, 08:30 AM |
| The lines and surfaces are fine, as are its proportions. If the toyobaru twins came with an I4 option, I'd own one right now. I keep those opinions because I'm overly critical of the car, I admit it. I kept waiting for it since the first concept, they teased concept after concept, and once all the waiting was done, all the bad news just came pouring in. Yes, I ACTUALLY blame the Toyobaru twins and their general mediocrity and its translation in poor sales to the cancellation of Nissans IDX project. Tunnel Vision much? Indeed. Anyways, the FA20 and transmission combo (I hear conflicting reports about its transmission, the consensus is its not meant to handle more than 300whp or something) has so far made a terrible rep for the car, with at present, seemingly no way around it. It's all there is to it. It would simply be a better car if Subaru wasn't involved. People say in 10 years, the FRS will be what the Nissan 240sx or the Honda Civic and Acura Intergra were, popular and fun to mod. Too bad there isn't a bolt in for the car for it to make amazing power without having to address other potential weak points, ie: transmission, injectors, etc. But, it handles great, its light and it's popular! Its the next Miata, it'll have its own racing series! Yes, and with what factory support? The FRS guys have been begging for a spec-FRS like series. Toyota or Subaru seem like they don't care one bit. So do you know what car I think the FRS is destined to be? the FRS is the future 350z or RX-8. Great handling cars. Great looking cars. Great ideas. But abandoned by the enthusiast majority due to the difficulty in making them more than just nice looking cars. Bridging that difficulty is why the miata, civic, integra, 240sx's are such cult favorites. I don't think the toyobaru twins as they are now will ever catch the cult status as those cars did. The 86 will live in the shadow of its namesake, the AE86, forever. So if you wanna talk about even the most core ideation in its design, the FRS missed what made the AE86 so great, which was its source of inspiration. They half-assed its simplicity and paid for it in its price and fanbase. Liking the car is difficult for me, I see its appeal and I DO still like it, but I simply find there to be more compelling choices on the market. Yes, new ones. The only thing that would absolutely rock my opinion on the Toyobarus is a spec racing series, they are the ideal cars for it and I wish it would happen. Anyways, the facelift is ugly and forgoes one of the most recognizable aesthetic characteristics that was unique to the FRS/86 (front fascia, blended fenders to bumper was fantastic) . In its place, they tack on a huge generic grill and haphazardly tried to blend it together with the rest of the body instead of tweaking what made the original design so great. EDIT: edited to add more talking points. Can you tell i'm very opinionated about the FRS? I'm probably tsundere for them. I have considered leasing one. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 18 2016, 09:05 AM |
| That facelift is hideous. Fuck this company. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 18 2016, 11:10 AM |
Guess I'm the only one that doesn't hate the face lift.  Welp... time to talk to the former Scion racing team members how thinks about this (PS: its not Ken Gushi. I wish it was.......) |
| Posted by: Shirogane Mar 18 2016, 11:18 AM |
| That facelift made the Subaru BRZ look subtle. I guess catfish inspiration is here to stay... |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 18 2016, 12:07 PM | ||
I know this wasn't at all the intention of your post, but I read it like this.  |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Mar 18 2016, 01:40 PM |
| That facelift is really bad. Not as bad as the 370Z compared to the 350, but still bad. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 18 2016, 02:59 PM | ||
Lol!!! that was pretty good  Lets see if the new Supra with the BMW collaboration would look better or worse than the TOYOTA 86. |
| Posted by: Seri Mar 18 2016, 03:38 PM |
| I'm going to be that guy here. I actually like it. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 18 2016, 03:53 PM | ||
| As a guy that's test driven both the BRZ and the FR-S 4 times; 2 on an MT Subbie & 2 on an AT FR-S with paddle shifters (didn't even bother using 'em)... Fred completely nailed the specs of the car in the truest way I felt when I drove it. It's a great handling car, feels peppy, but then you're like wait...... I'm going the same speed I would on my ????hp Jeep at exactly the same time interval. On a traffic light stop & go, I was seeing Altimas and Ford Fusions accelerate faster and with less engine noise. According to the guys at FT-Hachi Club Forums, the clutch is a piece of junk that breaks if you increase power by any means. The oil pan overheats & car • exprode if you switch the exhaust pipes. Stock manifold needs to be replaced with headers + cone filter, and the mufflers need more she-male porn addiction, cause the stock ones are little congested pizza dough rollers. This is a good example of how good the platform is, but how much I wanna facepalm in the face of STi and TRD's overwhelming nonexistent update schedule:
When driving it, a little voice kept drilling at the back of my head saying... this thing's a fscking Miata!? :/ ...so why did I like it so much? Because it looked good! But now that the Chip Fooze engineers got high with a 3rd grade classroom after watching Alien vs Predator...... you're killing me Toyobaru! Heck the boxy FD2 looks 100-fold better than the new FR-S.  @ Seri: whaaaaaaaaatt!?!??  |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 18 2016, 04:51 PM | ||
Amen bro |
| Posted by: sideways Mar 18 2016, 06:20 PM | ||
Until you realize that 17 years ago honda released a car that weighed basically the same, also had a 2 liter engine, but was making 40 more hp.  Dont get me wrong- I LIKE The frs/brz/86- cept for the price, feel its a bit too high for what it is. Buuut, it couldve, and SHOULD have been *better* I think. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 18 2016, 09:28 PM |
| It would have been if TRD didn't lie about their production of optional forced induction kits. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 19 2016, 12:18 AM | ||
That was sort of the point of my post, because after all, 17 years ago, Nissan made a car that made 50hp more and weighed around the same. Point is, S2K was actually a car that put around 210-215whp, enough for a car for that weight to be pretty fast. FRS is a sub 165whp car. No one jokes about minivans overtaking the s2ks, but I hear plenty of it railed against the toyobarus. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 19 2016, 01:10 AM |
| I don't know why STI or TRD didn't want to touch the 86. STI might give a STI version of it, but I doubt that since its been almost 1 year and a half since they showed the STI version of the BRZ. TRD just put some suspension parts that are better than the stock suspension. Toyota and Subaru are super scummy and it leads to basically private tuners to make the car actually work and makes people to stop complaining about power and parts. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 19 2016, 04:34 AM |
| I still believe its due to the fact that they're having a hard time making the FA20 reliable on power without jacking the price of the twins too high as it then has to compete against V8 or turbo I6 alternatives. Subaru has the best option in adapting the turbo FA20 from the WRX. But just a reminder again that the new STI still uses the EJ engines, as do their 24hr nurburgring cars. Both manufacturers aren't dumping R&D money into a performance FA20 engine. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 19 2016, 08:23 AM |
| Heh, so about how my Capri's power:weight is .08 and the FR-S is .06. Turbocharging ftw, not to mention being almost 400 lbs lighter... |
| Posted by: Spaz Mar 19 2016, 10:00 AM |
| TIL your Capri has better P:W than my race car. Pretty sure I have a massive gearing advantage though. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 19 2016, 12:11 PM | ||
And chassis, and drivetrain unless you mean your VW. [ Post made via Mobile Device ] |
| Posted by: BOZZ Mar 19 2016, 01:23 PM |
| I don't think the facelift of the BRZ/86 looks that bad, but I do wonder what the future holds with the Toyotaburu. Personally I don't get the feeling that Toyota or Subaru seem to care too much about it and I don't imagine there being a second generation of the series. If they do make a second generation I'd hope they differentiate the two further cause to me it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of differences between buying the Subaru BRZ or Toyota 86/Scion FR-S. |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Mar 19 2016, 01:30 PM | ||
Aren't they selling really well, though? I think they'd care about that. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 19 2016, 01:36 PM | ||
Actually, their sales have been falling since launch. They're not the worst selling cars, but i don't think they met expectations. http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-scion-fr-s-sales-have-plunged-the-life-and-times-of-an-ultra-niche-product/ I doubt Subaru will do a new BRZ, but toyotas partnership with BMW might allow for new 86. |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Mar 19 2016, 03:13 PM | ||
That's intersting, because I see them all over the place where I live. If they haven't met expectations, maybe they expected too much. |
| Posted by: BOZZ Mar 19 2016, 04:35 PM | ||
Sales figures straight from Toyota (U.S. sales figures): 2012 - 11417 2013 - 18327 2014 - 14062 2015 - 10507 http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/scion+transition+toyota.htm Sales figures for Subaru (U.S. sales figures): 2012 - 4144 2013 - 8087 2014 - 7504 2015 - 5296 Nevermind, found sales figures for the BRZ on http://media.subaru.com/pressrelease/909/120/subaru-america-inc-announces-december-2015-sales-best. http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-scion-fr-s-sales-have-plunged-the-life-and-times-of-an-ultra-niche-product/ I'm not sure whether the figures for the FR-S are bad or not, it depends on what the expectations were for the FR-S in the first place. The total sales of the BRZ are about half those of the FR-S, makes me wonder if the car would've been better off sold strictly as a Scion/Toyota. |
| Posted by: RalliKai Mar 20 2016, 05:06 AM |
| I'd rather see both companies go their separate ways, and Toyota scrap the current 86 and just start over. At the very least, replace the engine and tranny. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 20 2016, 06:25 AM |
| This is not something any manufacturer would do to a model that they just remodeled. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 20 2016, 07:03 AM | ||||||
Fred's article header really hits it again on the head. Keyword niche. The face-lift is completely the spirit of Scion trying to get one more kick before it dies into obscurity. Scion enthusiasts/engineers are for the most part Murican Bros, and Bro-culture always entails god-awful Fast & Furious aesthetics with a Jagermeister-keg full of Nos~> So I doubt the Japanese 86 culture, raised on Best Motoring and Seven&i DoriDori Magazines would give 2-cents about an off-shoot xenomorph body. Thus I think the Japanese 86 won't be undergoing the face-lift. Now on to the important part, power. Ultimately the increase in power comes down to the execs at Toyobaru Japan... so why do I personally think the old-flops in ties & suits over in J-Land won't ever increase the horsepower on the vehicle... simple: this is what they think about the car they created... 'Ohoho~ this car is meant to be the Hachi-Roku #2 LOL!! And just like the Hachi-Roku #1, we don't need to give a ferk about Parts or Power; the JDM Aftermarket is gonna take care of all that for us LOL! We gave the fans what they wanted... now lets let the fans take care of it themselves... we never gave the Hachi-1 any power increase back in the 80's... why should we give the Hachi-2 a boost now!? LOL!' Toyobaru Japan executives are complacent lazy old farts, that like the steady income they receive annually off of Hybrids, Compacts, Mini-vans, Sedans, Wagons, SUV's, Business Towncars, Kei Sardine Cans, and even more Priuses... Don't believe me? Allow me to demonstrate what the Japanese Toyota CEO is thinking about the 86 by simply comparing the Toyota Sports Line-up, with the rest of the crap they sell:  Image size reduced, original size: 1125 x 785. http://i.imgur.com/76qpK8H.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1120 x 775. http://i.imgur.com/SU0s0EG.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1095 x 665. http://i.imgur.com/GdpSgeX.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1110 x 615. http://i.imgur.com/RkeMiJN.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1120 x 620. http://i.imgur.com/lkizGFq.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1115 x 400. http://i.imgur.com/7mK0aDy.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1120 x 385. http://i.imgur.com/jFp6D6o.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1110 x 280. http://i.imgur.com/jOLgePH.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.  Image size reduced, original size: 1110 x 235. http://i.imgur.com/OdQIKIB.jpg to view the image in its original dimension. Wait for it...... wait for it......  Image size reduced, original size: 1135 x 245. http://i.imgur.com/txyZEvB.jpg to view the image in its original dimension. A MIRAI!?!? That's what the Sports Line-up means to Toyota... a frickin' MIRAI?? 
 |
| Posted by: Spaz Mar 20 2016, 07:58 AM | ||||
That's interesting. I know almost no FR-S owners. Everyone I race with went for the BRZ. It didn't matter that it was softer because it was going to be modified anyway, but the better options did matter, and I assume the higher will to please of SOA probably plays in too.
Quite true. However, it's funny with the VW. Everyone expects the performance of the Evo, but nobody does with the VW, even other VW owners. I have had people legit scared in the passenger seat of that car. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 20 2016, 09:23 AM |
| Hahaha, fair enough! Though I will say that stock the Capri is nowhere near that number. It's only because the engine is over-engineered and there's decades of aftermarket support for it that it can get there with minimal effort (new ECU, slightly oversized turbo compressor). One of those 'man they sure tuned this thing conservatively' situations. But then you have it being FWD and a convertible, so while it's fun for educating me on turbocharging I wouldn't exactly put it into the same 'fun' category as my older cars... As to the topic, I know lots of people around the area who have FR-Ss. It's actually very rare for me to see a BRZ around here. |
| Posted by: Seri Mar 20 2016, 09:54 AM |
| Florida seems to favor the FR-S. I do see a BRZ parked in my neighborhood, though. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 20 2016, 11:04 AM |
| Can also attest to seeing more FR-S. It's likely the different in locale, scions marketing was targeted towards metropolitan areas after all. |
| Posted by: DeeezNuuuts83 Mar 20 2016, 12:56 PM |
| Yup. I see more FR-Ss than BRZs too, but it's pretty much expected just based on the production numbers. I'm not sure how I feel about the facelift. It's more consistent with Toyota's design philosophy, but personally it's not a good thing, since I hate the front ends of the Camry and Avalon, and this shares the huge, huge front air dam, which is for the most part aesthetic and not even an air inlet. Toyota's doing too much of that -- just look at the C-pillar of the current Camry, where the black plastic is an attempt to make it look like the window is bigger than it is while making the pillar itself look less thick. The wheels are a slight improvement (I never liked the black spokes in between the silver ones) but look like they would be better as 18s, the headlights are interesting (in a good way, as I never liked the LED strip on the HID-equipped models) and the taillights are basically duplicates of what's been available on the aftermarket. It's kind of a similar facelift to what Mazda did to the RX-8 how they applied the current design philosophy to it and added some extra curves, except it didn't come off as nicely as the RX-8. Added power is welcome, but I agree that the increase of 5 isn't anything to brag about, though we'll have to see how the curves are and if it's possibly an underrated increase. If it also comes with a fuel economy bump too somehow, then that's not too bad. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 20 2016, 08:47 PM |
| "Old men ... running the world" - Bob Page (Deus Ex) Almost every company in Japan. From the depths of Konami to the JDM scheme lords of Toyotaburu, they all are controlled by old CEOs and private shareholders that care about the massive flow of money while making sure their customers pay more for a regular car and their employees getting minimum wages. The best about the Toyotaburu agreement is the formula of the FR-S/BRZ/GT-86. 100 FR-S/GT86 sales = 1 BRZ sale I feel bad for Subaru getting the smaller half of the sales of the 86 twins. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 20 2016, 09:07 PM |
| I don't feel bad one bit. They had a chance to make it the comeback of the AWD turbo coupe and didn't take it. Fuck 'em. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 20 2016, 10:24 PM | ||
THIS times 1000%!! Fsck Subaru right in the ass for being just as lazy as Toyota's executives. Why is Subaru making a hideous 300hp refrigerator box of polygons like this:  And not giving the sexy looking BRZ an All Wheel Drivetrain with a sweet-spot 300whp!?!? What the hell is a BRZ anyway!? Call it an Impreza, throw out that disgusting looking sedan, and make the 22BRZ like the original for fsck's sake Subaru!! ...don't you remember the 2.5 RS?? Bunta?? 22B?? 555?? GOGOGO?? Rally McRally Whatchumacallit!?!? (That's what the BRZ should be) |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 20 2016, 11:28 PM | ||
Subaru is like Honda, too logical and practical. Why does Honda still make the Si or Type R? The 2 companies know that their consumers love those cars cause of it being a "sports" car. A BRZ with AWD and the EJ motor would be good or AWD and a turbocharged FA motor. Time to put my faith in American cars now  P.S - I think Subaru forgot how to make a good sports car like how Lexus forgot how to make a car as good as the LFA. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 20 2016, 11:41 PM | ||||
Amen borther! ...although we don't need to go as far as giving up our weeaboo ways for a little four-doory boredy Fordy (hate comments intensify) ☆Let's just make Crawford the Roush & Ruf GmbH of Subaru from now onwards~ STi-whatnowlol!?  Here's the 400★BRZ from another angle:
...that thing really needs a 4WD... look at it slipping on Mario Kart banana peels! |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Mar 21 2016, 06:56 AM | ||
Well it'd be hard for them to make another car as good as that. I actually really like the Lexus lineup at the moment, especially the RC. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 21 2016, 07:15 AM |
| Lexus and Toyota R&D are really one and the same, just the marketing is different; which in turn affects design and engineering. A 400,000 dollar car doesn't really fit with Toyota's ethos but it does with Lexus. Plus, Toyota has never forgot how to make great cars, they're simply aiming for a more profitable audience and it's been paying off for them since the 90's. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 21 2016, 09:10 AM | ||
Lexus didn't forget. They just won't make another because of costs. They don't have the money to lose on another hypersport like the LFA. Did you forget that they made no profit on that car? |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 21 2016, 07:39 PM | ||
Yeah, they were losing profit for making that car but I love the tenacity and determination that Lexus had with the LFA. The RCF was just a way to make money while not being like the LFA like how the Huracan was made for profit. (Gasp~~ LAMBORGHINI TRYING TO MAKE PROFIT??!!!! ) |
| Posted by: Spaz Mar 22 2016, 06:54 AM |
| I think the sales differences are driven more by brand popularity in the locale, rather than marketing. Up here in the frozen tundra, Subaru does exceptionally well across the board. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 22 2016, 08:30 AM | ||
Yep, that's a result of marketing. It's always more than just what ads you decide to air to an area, marketing affects the direction of the brand and whom products should be made for, hence market research and targeting. Subarus AWD image makes them popular in areas with a lot of snow and rain, it's why the BRZ sticks out like a sore thumb in their lineup. Scion being unpopular in the midwest isn't a coincidence, that brand and all its products are designed for urban centers. Toyota could've easily re-badged a hilux as a Scion, but it doesn't fit the brand ethos of being cool and hip. Branding and Marketing are really one and the same. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 23 2016, 07:28 PM |
| This is old news since Toyota has been hinting on a sedan, and convertible version of the 86 but this is the new design of the Toyota 86. http://www.carscoops.com/2016/03/facelifted-toyota-gt-86-convertible-is_19.html Toyota will never make their mind up aren't they? Why keep drawing concepts and hint or feign ignorance on the idea when you know your consumers aren't gonna buy it? |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 23 2016, 08:10 PM | ||
...the jokes just write themselves. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 23 2016, 08:49 PM | ||||
It just looks so ..... ugh #StoptheMonotony |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 23 2016, 08:50 PM |
| Thats a fan render and fan renders are the clickbait of automotive styling. Toyota wont make the vert or the sedan due to sales. The vert will stay a concept. Its funny, the FR-S vert wouldve sold pretty well I think. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 23 2016, 09:12 PM | ||
Indeed! The styling's god☆awful, but Miatas are still around after a century of sales... so someone's certainly buying them. I always wondered how well the Del Sol's sold? Back in college 6 out of 2 college girls drove a Del Sol. It was actually a nice little car... like the Integra's chuu imouto. The MR2 was a great car too, Toyota just doesn't make 'em look as good as they used to. Seems every car coming out on the market looks like a cross between an iRobot self-driving taxi and a refrigerator. 90's styling was the peak of the car industry in my opinion!  |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 23 2016, 09:49 PM |
| Why does almost every man despise and consider convertibles as gay cars but leave out the jeep, and hardtop convertibles? |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 23 2016, 10:16 PM |
| Any man who considers something like the Miata 'gay' has clearly never bothered driving one. Then again, someone who makes such a knee-jerk ridiculous label probably isn't a driver either, so even if they did they wouldn't get it. Fuck 'em. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 23 2016, 10:44 PM |
| Miata is the most non-gay sports car ever built. I seriously only see dudes driving them. Never women. Unless every one of those guys is gay, which is statistically preposterous, it's not a homosex car. And even if it was, I would still buy one, because MX-5. |
| Posted by: xiao Mar 23 2016, 11:41 PM |
Just a sidenote, god awful design was directed at the convertible FR-S not the Piñata~  The Miata's a fuckin' banging little car... I've only driven one automatic, but it was fun as fsck!! ♪ ♫ ...a red one too!! ☆As for the design of the Miata, this is what I tell bro-dick Moostang/Camarro drivers when they refer to it as gay: Why do guys have pix of sexy animu girls on their avatars? why did the original VW Beetle last a thousand years production in Mexico and other shady parts of the world? ...cause men like sexy bitches that's why. Sometimes riding inside a sexy little slut is 100-fold better than letting a Beowulf looking monster sucke your dick inside a blast furnace! Boom shaka laka in yo face Bro!!  (can you guys tell I've been cybering for the past two hours? ) |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 24 2016, 10:38 AM | ||
The Miata gets the gay rap because a lot of gays bought them. It became the stereotype car for hairdressers.
They're not exempt, convertibles have a hairdresser rep in general. Ever heard the term "Barbie Jeep"? That specifically refers to the 2 door wrangler with the canvas top. |
| Posted by: Tessou Mar 24 2016, 10:45 AM |
| A Miata driver in the northern midwest is seen as a badass because they don't give two shits about driving a light RWD in the snow for four months every year. |
| Posted by: BOZZ Mar 24 2016, 12:24 PM | ||||||||
One of my buddies (he's an inactive member here at IDW) drives a first gen Miata as his daily driver here in Canada since he got it about 2 years ago, including during the winter (though he does use winter tires!). It's a pretty neat car, I really like it.
Well there is that rumoured mid-engine sports coupe they are working on.
Heh, the funny thing is that the BRZ has a funny name derived from - Boxer engine, Rear-wheel drive, and Z referring to zenith (FR-S is more simple, Front-Engine, Rear-wheel drive, Sport).
Personally, if they do a second generation (Subaru's parent company's boss http://www.motortrend.com/news/chief-subaru-parent-company-confirms-second-gen-brz-toyota-86/?sm_id=social_aumomotortrendhub_MotorTrend_20160324_59758736&adbid=713132002581487616&adbpl=tw&adbpr=25383000, also sadly they'll not go turbo from the factory according to the article) I'd love to see each car diverge more towards their brand, for example the Toyota 86 using non-boxer engine that they developed rather than just using a Subaru built one. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Mar 24 2016, 04:26 PM | ||
Hey who says hairdressers can't be badass? |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Mar 24 2016, 07:40 PM |
| With these comments, I feel like my self-esteem is up I hope that Toyota and Subaru go in their separate ways and see what we want. |
| Posted by: DeeezNuuuts83 Mar 26 2016, 01:11 PM | ||
The first person I ever knew to have a Miata was a woman -- she was a co-worker of my mom's, but this was in the early '90s. After that, everyone I knew (or even saw) with a Miata was a man. |
| Posted by: Spaz Mar 27 2016, 09:28 AM | ||
A buddy of mine has a beater Miata he picked up for $500 just for fucking around with in the winter. |
| Posted by: kyonpalm Mar 27 2016, 11:40 AM | ||
I've actually been planning on doing the same except for fucking around with it year-long. ;^) |
| Posted by: BOZZ Mar 28 2016, 07:08 AM | ||
Jeez, I wonder what condition it must've been in for it to be only $500 (my buddy is selling his NA, which is pretty good condition, for way more than that). |
| Posted by: Spaz Mar 30 2016, 08:35 PM |
| It's pretty fucking beat. It's a rattle trap, the top barely seals, and to put it into perspective, the air filter came off while ice racing, which we discovered when he finally decided to investigate the rattle under the hood most of the way through the day. He shrugged, borrowed a screw driver from me, and put it back on. He has a number of other toys for the rest of the year including a very nice 944 and an MR2 Spyder (MR-S). He doesn't need a nice Miata. |
| Posted by: Master0fMadness Aug 21 2016, 09:15 AM |
| Looks like they finally stuck the UFC fighter mouth-guard in the grille of the car to match the rest of Toyota's lineup. Eh. The look is growing on me, honestly. Uh, so are we getting the FA20F anytime soon or is this still a pipe dream? |
| Posted by: xiao Aug 21 2016, 02:34 PM | ||
The Toyota execs in Japan said... "Oh yeah... they're complaining about the engine, huh? How about we make the front end look like a Klingon! That'll teach those ungrateful gaijinz!! mwuahahahaあははは~" ー Toyota CEO http://toyota.jp/86 Image size reduced, original size: 1280 x 427. http://imgur.com/IpXCqh6.jpg to view the image in its original dimension. Gimme 200-bhp, I don't care about the engine anymore ... but for FFS make the T86's body look like it did back when it came out!!  welp ... time to buy a Subaru Zed ~ ✨http://subaru.com/brz Image size reduced, original size: 719 x 407. http://imgur.com/5vWxNv0.jpg to view the image in its original dimension.   |
| Posted by: Master0fMadness Aug 21 2016, 08:59 PM |
| Don't get it twisted, if I was to buy an 86 it would be naturally aspirated for insurance reasons, but the option would be nice. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 21 2016, 09:20 PM | ||
Let me be clear. Ahh...don't get it twisted. We'll see how pretty your face is after my fist has kissed it! In all seriousness though, enough fooling around, Subaru. Make a turbo AWD coupe already. You've been without one long enough. |
| Posted by: Master0fMadness Aug 21 2016, 09:26 PM |
| Uhh, aaah, uhh, you're a studdering communist. Honestly I don't want AWD. For one, I'm not entirely sure the transaxle setup would work on the car because of size and secondly, it would kill the appeal of the 86/BRZ; super light weight. The car weighs half a ton less than most "sports cars" and adding 300 pounds to it would make it into an understeering pig. Oh, and price. Who wants to see a $40,000 BRZ? Not me. Just give us a 2 door WRX STi instead, Subaru. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 21 2016, 10:01 PM | ||
Yeah well you're stupid. Who's to say that an AWD turbo version of this wouldn't be the 2-door WRX STi? I mean, all I said was that Subaru should give us an AWD turbo coupe. It just so happens that they already have a coupe platform right here. As for it understeering, that's up to suspension geometry and factory torque bias settings, not something inherent in AWD in and of itself. For instance, you'd find that an American SVX would handle very differently from one with VTD and 4WS. Both are AWD. Both are roughly the same weight. Both are the same chassis. Both have the same engine. However, the American has a default torque bias of 90/10 front/rear, whereas the VTD has a default torque bias of 30/70 front/rear, plus 4-wheel steering. Gotta be careful with them generalizations. |
| Posted by: Master0fMadness Aug 21 2016, 11:50 PM |
| You're stupid! Mind you, I was only basing that opinion on what Subaru has done in the name of AWD performance in the past here. I'm not expecting them to give us nice things because they almost never do. Of course, it doesn't even have to be that way. You can just tune understeer and oversteer out with ABS these days. I mean, look at the frickin' Focus RS, it has a drift mode for crying out loud. Do I want it, though? Hell the fuck no. I'll always take a well-sorted suspension configuration, properly calibrated differentials and nifty mechanical aides like Super HICAS over nonsensical stability control programs that just make the car feel weird and synthetic. I know the 86 isn't based solely on the 'rider and horse as one' philosophy as THE BEST Miata, but man, that thing's a snooze even with aides turned off as is. Let me handle my own car, and let my fate, for good or for ill, be solely determined by my own driving skill or lack thereof. I just don't see Subaru pulling it off properly. Or at the minimum, not watering it down for the US market like they almost always do. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Aug 22 2016, 12:01 AM | ||
If you want a Super light weight sports car, then a Miata/Fiat 124 is a better alternative than a BRZ/FRS/GT86/86 or just be insane and get a British ultra light. An AWD system, like from STI, relied on the engine which were turbocharged. So it would counter act the weight with extra power. (in which Subaru already did but still doesn't want to release it) The price would not be 40,000 dollars since the recent STI is only 35 grand and all they're doing is just adding a turbo and a transfer case to the existing settup which would be a bit cheaper. |
| Posted by: RalliKai Aug 22 2016, 04:51 AM | ||
^This. Also, I doubt Subaru will add another 300+ hp AWD car in its lineup with them working on the next-gen STi. It's why I think the answer is for Toyota to bring back the Celica GT-Four.  As unlikely as that is. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 22 2016, 07:20 AM | ||
Nuh-uh! Anyway, it sounds like what you want is a Miata or perhaps one of the lovely cars I hope make it stateside like the Honda S660 or the Toyota S-FR. I'm not arguing with you there, I'd love to see those come over, and I'd love to own them since they bring back the spirit of when cars were small, nimble and just plain fun to drive. The trouble, I imagine, will be getting such cars to pass muster with the NHTSA. Those jerks steal everything fun away from us. #popupsdidnothingwrong |
| Posted by: Sensation! Aug 22 2016, 11:15 AM | ||
You'd be wrong, somewhat. Size doesn't meant squat for a manufacturer as they all need to conform to a modern standard if they want to sell the car in a modern 1st world country. That said, it generally IS harder to make smaller cars safer, but we've come a long way in safety. I'm confident if we did a 40MPH front end collision between a new Mini Cooper against any giant American 70's sedan, the mini would murder the occupants in the big sedan. What determines if the car will be sold here is if the manufacturer thinks there's a demand for it. See Smart fortwo and Scion IQ, both extremely small cars that pass muster for safety. The manufacturer will make the proper modifications to make a car conform to the rules of a region, which coincidentally, was one of the original purposes of pop-up headlights; to allow for low slung front fascias while conforming to headlight height regulations. |
| Posted by: Master0fMadness Aug 23 2016, 05:45 AM | ||
But you see, therin lies the tragedy of the 86. The 86 straddles the line between 'toy' and 'useful'. I mean, if you absolutely had to, you could fit 4 people in there. You have yourself a decently sized trunk - Miata/124 are simply too small. You have the security of a coupe, plus no cowl shake, which on Jersey's roads even the Miata isn't 100% impervious to. And it's affordable - not unlike the 124/Miata, but even a pov like me could have it as their main car, thus, it's within the people's grasp. The nice thing about the 86 is you only really need to be kind of determined to live with one as your only car. The car's practical limits are reasonable enough that unless you're raising a family, you'll never have to hit up Enterprise unless you're buying lumber at Home Depot or something. But true sports cars? That's a commitment. It's a commitment I just couldn't bring myself to engage with. But the 86 is close enough to pure sports car that I can look past it not being 'perfect' thanks to its virtues as being pretty good at being a car that can do car things. |
| Posted by: xiao Aug 25 2016, 02:03 PM | ||||
Both of youz shaddap! ~ only I'm stupid ~ ♫--- --- --- I'm surprised with all this suspension & engine talk, no one's brought up the one obviously wrong thing about the T86/BRZed ... ★ The engine's in the wrong side of the car ~ This little puppy is a poor-man's Porsche ~ and if Toyobaru would've had some more nuts loose in their brains, they would have done the obvious thing years ago before the jalopy even came out → ★ ie. Make it a 4WD Turbo RR ~  (?) |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Aug 25 2016, 02:06 PM | ||
Porsche already made a 4 cyl Boxter Engine for fuel economy In other words .... Subaru needs to step up their game |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 25 2016, 05:03 PM | ||
Oh look, someone who didn't get the joke. As for a RR, uh, good luck with that. Besides being cool like Porsche, do you have any particular reason why you'd want the engine in the rear, considering the car is already balanced properly as-is? |
| Posted by: xiao Aug 25 2016, 05:16 PM | ||
Why am I the only one who never gets the joke!  ✨ (xiao was the retarded-stoner kid back in last grade ☆)As to why I compare the BRZ to the 911 ... elemental my dear N1! The engine would fit like a glove (?) → Image size reduced, original size: 719 x 407. http://imgur.com/cij6mQH.gif to view the image in its original dimension. Edit: Also under high-speeds on the twisties ~ the dynamics of the car would be totally different than it is now with the engine on the front! ... I think? |
| Posted by: Sensation! Aug 25 2016, 06:54 PM |
| Check the wheelbase. Shrinking down the 911 in size so it fits into the FRS's silhouette doesn't begin to tell the half of it. Remember, those turbo 991 rear wheels are like..20x11 inches compared to the dinky 17x7's on the FRS. You definitely want to fit fat tires in the back RRs if you're expecting to get the most out of the car. The FRS iirc, will get some minor rubbing with 9 inch wide wheels, the FRS isn't designed for super wide wheels, nor does it need them, even when modded, 9's are perfect for the car. There's some modding needed there to get the car to fit wider wheels. This is all just a really small problem too in the bigger picture of trying to turn those FRS chassis into RR's, its not worth further discussion because its such a goofy idea, I'm editing the post trying my hardest to reasonably explain things without sounding super off, but the FRS is seriously built around how well balanced it already is, its so core to the car. You can just sum it down to the chassis probably not being wide and long enough for why it wont be a good RR. Personally, I think RR's suck. Porsche does them right because they're Porsche and they "set the benchmark" for these types of cars. Plus, people like Porsches for how 'pure' they are as a brand. They're fast cars, but I think MR's are a better layout. Just personal opinion. |
| Posted by: BOZZ Aug 25 2016, 07:20 PM |
| Although this thread is more about the Toyota part of the Toyobaru, I read earlier today that Subaru registered a trademark for the BRZ tS in the U.S. and that it might lead to it being released here. To the best of my knowledge the tS is tuned by STi and has better suspension setup, bigger wheels and other upgrades, like Brembo brakes, compared to the regular BRZ. What are your guys thoughts on the tS? I'm guessing most don't really care since they're not upping the power or offering a turbo? |
| Posted by: xiao Aug 25 2016, 07:57 PM | ||
I totally agree with you Sensation! my man ~ t'was just a loopy idea tho, cause the dimensions of both cars are very similar. But yeah I entire agree that just cause the shells look alike doesn't mean the BRZ is a Porsche. Same here, Porsche's 911-T is the only good RR period. But what if RUF does a bit of R&D with the BRZ shell tho? ...yeah it's just a high schooler's wet dream on a poster in his bedroom wall... but it could happen!!? probably not... orz★ On a more realistic note. The 911-T weighs 3,500 lbs and the BRZ weighs 2,800 lbs ... how much does the Crawford 400 bhp Zed weigh?? Cause that'd be a pretty good competitor of the Porsche methinks ~ ? |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Aug 25 2016, 08:32 PM |
| Actually which would be better A Ferrari 458 engine powered GT86 or a BRZ that has a Flat 6 in the back? |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 25 2016, 08:50 PM |
| Is someone actually building the ridiculousness that is the BRZ you mention? 'Cause I know you got your GT86 comment from a real car (that isn't actually fully built yet). |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Aug 25 2016, 09:49 PM | ||
if someone had money, then that BRZ with the engine in the rear would be a reality and also proving that the 911 isn't a fluke that somehow is on the boundaries of physics and ingenuity. I do want to see how a GT86 would be with a 458 engine cause there was a japanese company that put a V8 (that wasn't Italian) which was pretty good. Also, it would make people shut up about the GT86 having no power. |
| Posted by: Sensation! Aug 25 2016, 10:34 PM | ||
No way, were talking longer by almost an entire feet, plus with a shorter wheelbase while being much wider for the 991's. They're nothing alike! Unless my sarcasm detector need some calibrating..  Image size reduced, original size: 1280 x 1136. http://65.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lemlc5mlub1qc2etlo1_1280.jpg to view the image in its original dimension. I'd love to see a 458 powered FRS any day of the week. Matter a fact, I wanna see that V8 shoved into a lot of cars it doesnt belong in. |
| Posted by: The Sixth Element Aug 25 2016, 10:53 PM | ||
you know what I want? I want an AE86 with a V12 or any japanese sports car with a V12 |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 26 2016, 12:49 AM | ||||||
What the hell are you two blabbering about?
|
| Posted by: Sensation! Aug 26 2016, 01:04 AM |
| >stay tuned Doesn't run. Doesn't exist. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 26 2016, 01:12 AM | ||||
Yeah, it's almost like I mentioned that or something. I disagree with it not existing though. The sheer dosh in getting the thing this far shows that they've got the money, so now it's a time game rather than a "can we?" thing. EDIT: I just noticed Sixth's comment about "making people shut up." Excuse me, but how? "Hey I stuffed a Ferrari 458 motor into a GT86, so now you can't say that GT86s are slow!" Yes you can, very easily. See that GT86 there on the showroom floor? It's slow. Look I bought it, it's slow. Look I did some chipping. It's a little better, but it's still slow. Look, I spent Ferrari money putting a Ferrari engine into a slow, inexpensive RWD coupe. It's fast! Too bad I could've had that fast with oodles of other cars with the same money, and it doesn't actually mean that the GT86 itself is actually fast! |
| Posted by: Sensation! Aug 26 2016, 06:15 AM | ||||
I have the skills, money, time, and parts needed to own a SR20DET powered S14. While I will no doubt swap the engine over, my S14 isn't powered by a SR20 yet, therefore I don't own a SR20 powered S14; it doesn't exist. Mark has the money, skill, and parts needed to get his 1JZ running in a car it doesn't belong in, but last I checked, he hasn't quite had time to finish it. I have no doubt's that that car will be powered by its 1JZ powerplant eventually, but at the moment, the 1JZ doesn't move that car. His car is a project and the finished product doesn't exist. A rich man owns a shard of the Hope Diamond, he has it set into a beautiful floral filigree, but the platinum chains aren't completed. While he'll eventually own a necklace of a Hope Diamond, currently, that necklace doesn't exist. A group of guys decide to place a 458 engine into the chassis of an FRS, they're full of knowledge, optimism, and most importantly: money. This is something they'll no doubt finish. However at the moment,
doesn't exist. Is this semantics? yes. But its part of a bigger reasoning. It's hard for me to get excited at "concepts" (or projects) as I'm very critical of them, in particular with cars. It stems from every auto manufacturer and their needs to create concepts. Auto makers often time have the money and resources to make some of their wild and wacky concepts come to fruition, but they won't do so. The idea for a concept is essentially testing the waters, its to gauge public interest and reactions so that at least some of it DOES make it to a production model, which is cool and something you should be excited about. Right? Well, thing is, you can usually tell how serious auto makers are if the concept is actually powered, because if it exists only as a rendering or a wooden scale model, chances are, its served its purpose as to tool to gauge public reactions. I have no intention of getting excited for the OMG 2019 BMW VISION NEXT, WILL TOTALLY REVITALIZE THE SELF DRIVING CAR MARKET because it's just a neat study. That said, automakers have caught on in making some of their concepts actually work because its that little bit of detail that makes people care. After all, the Nissan IDx actually worked and the IDx ALMOST became a thing. Damn them! It's stuff like this that made the Mazda Furai so cool. People love seeing concept cars work because it meant the company was serious, and that's something to actually get hype about. So with regards to how I treated the Mazda RX vision as a study, I have no doubts that the RX-9 will be a thing considering its recent buzz of trademarks etc etc. But until a working RX-9 prototype is a thing, I'm not gonna get excited about it, because at the moment, the RX-9 doesn't exist. So until that FRS does its first shakedown with its 458 powerplant, I cant bring myself to be all that hype for it. I'm sure many people share my sentiments too, 350k views in a couple months is okay, but i'll admit I wasnt aware of this car prior. In fact, I dont think it even got shared in the Purist group and this project is right up their alley. If the car actually ran? wew lad, I'd bet it on it getting at least double its shares/views. |
| Posted by: Nomake Wan Aug 26 2016, 07:34 AM |
| If they just had a stock car and a 458 engine sitting next to one another all, "Hey check this shizzle we gon do this thang," I'd agree with you. However, it's gotten further than that, so it's crossed the line into "this is a thing that's happening, and now it's just a matter of forgetting about it until it pops up all over my Facebook feed again." Just a difference of opinion. By your standard I don't have a VJ11/14-powered Capri. By mine I do. |
| Posted by: xiao Aug 26 2016, 10:20 AM | ||
The xiao© is never sarcastic!  ~ the dimensions on Google-paper looked similar but yeps that thing ain't no 911 and vice versa. XDCarry on with the Ferrari engines discussion. I'm secret in love with V12's & wanna put one in a Bini Cooper; but xiao's just carzy-train...  maybe- |
