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> 2017 Toyota 86 (The "FR-S" in Disguise), Sorry but its not a GT86
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Aug 22 2016, 12:01 AM


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QUOTE (Master0fMadness @ 2 hours, 35 minutes ago)
Uhh, aaah, uhh, you're a studdering communist. awesome.gif

Honestly I don't want AWD. For one, I'm not entirely sure the transaxle setup would work on the car because of size and secondly, it would kill the appeal of the 86/BRZ; super light weight.

The car weighs half a ton less than most "sports cars" and adding 300 pounds to it would make it into an understeering pig.

Oh, and price. Who wants to see a $40,000 BRZ? Not me.

Just give us a 2 door WRX STi instead, Subaru.

If you want a Super light weight sports car, then a Miata/Fiat 124 is a better alternative than a BRZ/FRS/GT86/86 or just be insane and get a British ultra light. laugh2.gif

An AWD system, like from STI, relied on the engine which were turbocharged. So it would counter act the weight with extra power. (in which Subaru already did but still doesn't want to release it)

The price would not be 40,000 dollars since the recent STI is only 35 grand and all they're doing is just adding a turbo and a transfer case to the existing settup which would be a bit cheaper.
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Posted: Aug 22 2016, 04:51 AM


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QUOTE (The Sixth Element @ 4 hours, 49 minutes ago)
If you want a Super light weight sports car, then a Miata/Fiat 124 is a better alternative than a BRZ/FRS/GT86/86 or just be insane and get a British ultra light.  laugh2.gif


^This.

Also, I doubt Subaru will add another 300+ hp AWD car in its lineup with them working on the next-gen STi.

It's why I think the answer is for Toyota to bring back the Celica GT-Four. cool.gif As unlikely as that is.

This post has been edited by RalliKai on Aug 22 2016, 04:51 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 22 2016, 07:20 AM


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QUOTE (Master0fMadness @ 7 hours, 29 minutes ago)
You're stupid! derp.gif

Mind you, I was only basing that opinion on what Subaru has done in the name of AWD performance in the past here. I'm not expecting them to give us nice things because they almost never do.

Of course, it doesn't even have to be that way. You can just tune understeer and oversteer out with ABS these days. I mean, look at the frickin' Focus RS, it has a drift mode for crying out loud.

Do I want it, though? Hell the fuck no. I'll always take a well-sorted suspension configuration, properly calibrated differentials and nifty mechanical aides like Super HICAS over nonsensical stability control programs that just make the car feel weird and synthetic.

I know the 86 isn't based solely on the 'rider and horse as one' philosophy as THE BEST Miata, but man, that thing's a snooze even with aides turned off as is. Let me handle my own car, and let my fate, for good or for ill, be solely determined by my own driving skill or lack thereof.

I just don't see Subaru pulling it off properly. Or at the minimum, not watering it down for the US market like they almost always do.

Nuh-uh!

Anyway, it sounds like what you want is a Miata or perhaps one of the lovely cars I hope make it stateside like the Honda S660 or the Toyota S-FR. I'm not arguing with you there, I'd love to see those come over, and I'd love to own them since they bring back the spirit of when cars were small, nimble and just plain fun to drive. The trouble, I imagine, will be getting such cars to pass muster with the NHTSA. Those jerks steal everything fun away from us. #popupsdidnothingwrong
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Sensation!
Posted: Aug 22 2016, 11:15 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 3 hours, 54 minutes ago)
The trouble, I imagine, will be getting such cars to pass muster with the NHTSA. Those jerks steal everything fun away from us. #popupsdidnothingwrong

You'd be wrong, somewhat. Size doesn't meant squat for a manufacturer as they all need to conform to a modern standard if they want to sell the car in a modern 1st world country. That said, it generally IS harder to make smaller cars safer, but we've come a long way in safety. I'm confident if we did a 40MPH front end collision between a new Mini Cooper against any giant American 70's sedan, the mini would murder the occupants in the big sedan. What determines if the car will be sold here is if the manufacturer thinks there's a demand for it. See Smart fortwo and Scion IQ, both extremely small cars that pass muster for safety.

The manufacturer will make the proper modifications to make a car conform to the rules of a region, which coincidentally, was one of the original purposes of pop-up headlights; to allow for low slung front fascias while conforming to headlight height regulations.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Aug 22 2016, 11:23 AM
Master0fMadness
Posted: Aug 23 2016, 05:45 AM


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QUOTE (The Sixth Element @ Yesterday, 12:01 AM)
If you want a Super light weight sports car, then a Miata/Fiat 124 is a better alternative than a BRZ/FRS/GT86/86 or just be insane and get a British ultra light. laugh2.gif

But you see, therin lies the tragedy of the 86.

The 86 straddles the line between 'toy' and 'useful'.

I mean, if you absolutely had to, you could fit 4 people in there.

You have yourself a decently sized trunk - Miata/124 are simply too small.

You have the security of a coupe, plus no cowl shake, which on Jersey's roads even the Miata isn't 100% impervious to.

And it's affordable - not unlike the 124/Miata, but even a pov like me could have it as their main car, thus, it's within the people's grasp.

The nice thing about the 86 is you only really need to be kind of determined to live with one as your only car. The car's practical limits are reasonable enough that unless you're raising a family, you'll never have to hit up Enterprise unless you're buying lumber at Home Depot or something. But true sports cars? That's a commitment.

It's a commitment I just couldn't bring myself to engage with. But the 86 is close enough to pure sports car that I can look past it not being 'perfect' thanks to its virtues as being pretty good at being a car that can do car things.
xiao
Posted: Aug 25 2016, 02:03 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Aug 22 2016, 12:01 AM)
Yeah well you're stupid. awesome.gif

QUOTE (Master0fMadness @ Aug 22 2016, 01:50 AM)
You're stupid! derp.gif

Both of youz shaddap! ~ only I'm stupid ~ cool.gif

--- --- ---

I'm surprised with all this suspension & engine talk, no one's brought up the one obviously wrong thing about the T86/BRZed ...

★ The engine's in the wrong side of the car ~ awesome.gif

This little puppy is a poor-man's Porsche ~ and if Toyobaru would've had some more nuts loose in their brains, they would have done the obvious thing years ago before the jalopy even came out

★ ie. Make it a 4WD Turbo RR ~ wink3.gif (?)
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Aug 25 2016, 02:06 PM


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QUOTE (xiao @ 2 minutes, 32 seconds ago)
★ The engine's in the wrong side of the car ~ awesome.gif

This little puppy is a poor-man's Porsche ~ and if Toyobaru would've had some more nuts loose in their brains, they would have done the obvious thing years ago before the jalopy even came out

Porsche already made a 4 cyl Boxter Engine for fuel economy

In other words .... Subaru needs to step up their game
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Posted: Aug 25 2016, 05:03 PM


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QUOTE (xiao @ 2 hours, 59 minutes ago)
Both of youz shaddap! ~ only I'm stupid ~ cool.gif

Oh look, someone who didn't get the joke. derp.gif

As for a RR, uh, good luck with that. Besides being cool like Porsche, do you have any particular reason why you'd want the engine in the rear, considering the car is already balanced properly as-is?
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xiao
Posted: Aug 25 2016, 05:16 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 10 minutes, 10 seconds ago)
Oh look, someone who didn't get the joke. derp.gif

Why am I the only one who never gets the joke! crying2.gif derp.gif (xiao was the retarded-stoner kid back in last grade ☆)

As to why I compare the BRZ to the 911 ... elemental my dear N1! The engine would fit like a glove awesome.gif (?)

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Edit: Also under high-speeds on the twisties ~ the dynamics of the car would be totally different than it is now with the engine on the front! ... I think? unsure.gif

This post has been edited by xiao on Aug 25 2016, 05:26 PM
Sensation!
Posted: Aug 25 2016, 06:54 PM


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Check the wheelbase. Shrinking down the 911 in size so it fits into the FRS's silhouette doesn't begin to tell the half of it. Remember, those turbo 991 rear wheels are like..20x11 inches compared to the dinky 17x7's on the FRS. You definitely want to fit fat tires in the back RRs if you're expecting to get the most out of the car. The FRS iirc, will get some minor rubbing with 9 inch wide wheels, the FRS isn't designed for super wide wheels, nor does it need them, even when modded, 9's are perfect for the car. There's some modding needed there to get the car to fit wider wheels.

This is all just a really small problem too in the bigger picture of trying to turn those FRS chassis into RR's, its not worth further discussion because its such a goofy idea, I'm editing the post trying my hardest to reasonably explain things without sounding super off, but the FRS is seriously built around how well balanced it already is, its so core to the car. You can just sum it down to the chassis probably not being wide and long enough for why it wont be a good RR.

Personally, I think RR's suck. Porsche does them right because they're Porsche and they "set the benchmark" for these types of cars. Plus, people like Porsches for how 'pure' they are as a brand. They're fast cars, but I think MR's are a better layout. Just personal opinion.

This post has been edited by Sensation! on Aug 25 2016, 07:33 PM
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Posted: Aug 25 2016, 07:20 PM


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Although this thread is more about the Toyota part of the Toyobaru, I read earlier today that Subaru registered a trademark for the BRZ tS in the U.S. and that it might lead to it being released here. To the best of my knowledge the tS is tuned by STi and has better suspension setup, bigger wheels and other upgrades, like Brembo brakes, compared to the regular BRZ. What are your guys thoughts on the tS? I'm guessing most don't really care since they're not upping the power or offering a turbo?
xiao
Posted: Aug 25 2016, 07:57 PM


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QUOTE (Sensation! @ 56 minutes, 48 seconds ago)
Personally, I think RR's suck. Porsche does them right because they're Porsche and they "set the benchmark" for these types of cars. Plus, people like Porsches for how 'pure' they are as a brand. They're fast cars, but I think MR's are a better layout. Just personal opinion.

I totally agree with you Sensation! my man ~ t'was just a loopy idea tho, cause the dimensions of both cars are very similar. derp.gif

But yeah I entire agree that just cause the shells look alike doesn't mean the BRZ is a Porsche. Same here, Porsche's 911-T is the only good RR period. But what if RUF does a bit of R&D with the BRZ shell tho? awesome.gif ...yeah it's just a high schooler's wet dream on a poster in his bedroom wall... but it could happen!!? derp.gif probably not... orz

★ On a more realistic note. The 911-T weighs 3,500 lbs and the BRZ weighs 2,800 lbs ... how much does the Crawford 400 bhp Zed weigh?? Cause that'd be a pretty good competitor of the Porsche methinks ~ ? ohmy.gif
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Aug 25 2016, 08:32 PM


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Actually which would be better

A Ferrari 458 engine powered GT86 or a BRZ that has a Flat 6 in the back?
Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 25 2016, 08:50 PM


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Is someone actually building the ridiculousness that is the BRZ you mention? 'Cause I know you got your GT86 comment from a real car (that isn't actually fully built yet).
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The Sixth Element
  Posted: Aug 25 2016, 09:49 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 59 minutes, 52 seconds ago)
Is someone actually building the ridiculousness that is the BRZ you mention? 'Cause I know you got your GT86 comment from a real car (that isn't actually fully built yet).

if someone had money, then that BRZ with the engine in the rear would be a reality and also proving that the 911 isn't a fluke that somehow is on the boundaries of physics and ingenuity. laugh2.gif

I do want to see how a GT86 would be with a 458 engine cause there was a japanese company that put a V8 (that wasn't Italian) which was pretty good. Also, it would make people shut up about the GT86 having no power.
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Posted: Aug 25 2016, 10:34 PM


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QUOTE (xiao @ 2 hours, 37 minutes ago)
cause the dimensions of both cars are very similar. derp.gif

No way, were talking longer by almost an entire feet, plus with a shorter wheelbase while being much wider for the 991's. They're nothing alike! Unless my sarcasm detector need some calibrating..

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I'd love to see a 458 powered FRS any day of the week. Matter a fact, I wanna see that V8 shoved into a lot of cars it doesnt belong in.
The Sixth Element
  Posted: Aug 25 2016, 10:53 PM


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QUOTE (Sensation! @ 19 minutes, 3 seconds ago)
I'd love to see a 458 powered FRS any day of the week. Matter a fact, I wanna see that V8 shoved into a lot of cars it doesnt belong in.

you know what I want? I want an AE86 with a V12 or any japanese sports car with a V12 laugh2.gif
Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 12:49 AM


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QUOTE (The Sixth Element @ 2 hours, 57 minutes ago)
I do want to see how a GT86 would be with a 458 engine cause there was a japanese company that put a V8 (that wasn't Italian) which was pretty good. Also, it would make people shut up about the GT86 having no power.


QUOTE (Sensation! @ 2 hours, 12 minutes ago)
I'd love to see a 458 powered FRS any day of the week. Matter a fact, I wanna see that V8 shoved into a lot of cars it doesnt belong in.

What the hell are you two blabbering about? blink.gif

YOUTUBE ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGiwQx1kNiY )
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Sensation!
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 01:04 AM


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>stay tuned

Doesn't run. Doesn't exist.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 01:12 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 4 hours, 21 minutes ago)
Is someone actually building the ridiculousness that is the BRZ you mention? 'Cause I know you got your GT86 comment from a real car (that isn't actually fully built yet).

QUOTE (Sensation! @ 6 minutes, 53 seconds ago)
>stay tuned

Doesn't run. Doesn't exist.

Yeah, it's almost like I mentioned that or something. I disagree with it not existing though. The sheer dosh in getting the thing this far shows that they've got the money, so now it's a time game rather than a "can we?" thing.

EDIT: I just noticed Sixth's comment about "making people shut up." Excuse me, but how? "Hey I stuffed a Ferrari 458 motor into a GT86, so now you can't say that GT86s are slow!" Yes you can, very easily. See that GT86 there on the showroom floor? It's slow. Look I bought it, it's slow. Look I did some chipping. It's a little better, but it's still slow.

Look, I spent Ferrari money putting a Ferrari engine into a slow, inexpensive RWD coupe. It's fast! Too bad I could've had that fast with oodles of other cars with the same money, and it doesn't actually mean that the GT86 itself is actually fast! derp.gif

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Aug 26 2016, 01:14 AM
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Sensation!
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 06:15 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 4 hours, 28 minutes ago)
I disagree with it not existing though. The sheer dosh in getting the thing this far shows that they've got the money, so now it's a time game rather than a "can we?" thing.

I have the skills, money, time, and parts needed to own a SR20DET powered S14. While I will no doubt swap the engine over, my S14 isn't powered by a SR20 yet, therefore I don't own a SR20 powered S14; it doesn't exist.

Mark has the money, skill, and parts needed to get his 1JZ running in a car it doesn't belong in, but last I checked, he hasn't quite had time to finish it. I have no doubt's that that car will be powered by its 1JZ powerplant eventually, but at the moment, the 1JZ doesn't move that car. His car is a project and the finished product doesn't exist.

A rich man owns a shard of the Hope Diamond, he has it set into a beautiful floral filigree, but the platinum chains aren't completed. While he'll eventually own a necklace of a Hope Diamond, currently, that necklace doesn't exist.

A group of guys decide to place a 458 engine into the chassis of an FRS, they're full of knowledge, optimism, and most importantly: money. This is something they'll no doubt finish. However at the moment,

QUOTE (Sensation! @ 19 minutes, 3 seconds ago)
a 458 powered FRS


doesn't exist.


Is this semantics? yes.
But its part of a bigger reasoning. It's hard for me to get excited at "concepts" (or projects) as I'm very critical of them, in particular with cars.

It stems from every auto manufacturer and their needs to create concepts. Auto makers often time have the money and resources to make some of their wild and wacky concepts come to fruition, but they won't do so. The idea for a concept is essentially testing the waters, its to gauge public interest and reactions so that at least some of it DOES make it to a production model, which is cool and something you should be excited about. Right?

Well, thing is, you can usually tell how serious auto makers are if the concept is actually powered, because if it exists only as a rendering or a wooden scale model, chances are, its served its purpose as to tool to gauge public reactions.

I have no intention of getting excited for the OMG 2019 BMW VISION NEXT, WILL TOTALLY REVITALIZE THE SELF DRIVING CAR MARKET because it's just a neat study. That said, automakers have caught on in making some of their concepts actually work because its that little bit of detail that makes people care. After all, the Nissan IDx actually worked and the IDx ALMOST became a thing. Damn them! It's stuff like this that made the Mazda Furai so cool. People love seeing concept cars work because it meant the company was serious, and that's something to actually get hype about.

So with regards to how I treated the Mazda RX vision as a study, I have no doubts that the RX-9 will be a thing considering its recent buzz of trademarks etc etc. But until a working RX-9 prototype is a thing, I'm not gonna get excited about it, because at the moment, the RX-9 doesn't exist.

So until that FRS does its first shakedown with its 458 powerplant, I cant bring myself to be all that hype for it.

I'm sure many people share my sentiments too, 350k views in a couple months is okay, but i'll admit I wasnt aware of this car prior. In fact, I dont think it even got shared in the Purist group and this project is right up their alley. If the car actually ran? wew lad, I'd bet it on it getting at least double its shares/views.





Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 07:34 AM


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If they just had a stock car and a 458 engine sitting next to one another all, "Hey check this shizzle we gon do this thang," I'd agree with you. However, it's gotten further than that, so it's crossed the line into "this is a thing that's happening, and now it's just a matter of forgetting about it until it pops up all over my Facebook feed again."

Just a difference of opinion. By your standard I don't have a VJ11/14-powered Capri. By mine I do. awesome.gif
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xiao
Posted: Aug 26 2016, 10:20 AM


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QUOTE (Sensation! @ Today, 12:34 AM)
No way, were talking longer by almost an entire feet, plus with a shorter wheelbase while being much wider for the 991's. They're nothing alike! Unless my sarcasm detector need some calibrating..

The xiao is never sarcastic! ph34r.gif ~ the dimensions on Google-paper looked similar but yeps that thing ain't no 911 and vice versa. XD

Carry on with the Ferrari engines discussion. I'm secret in love with V12's & wanna put one in a Bini Cooper; but xiao's just carzy-train... shifty2.gif maybe-

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