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> Lets talk about what FFs can do..., Leave the drift debate at the door.
hirothegreat
Posted: Jan 16 2004, 09:24 PM


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this thread is great, its hard to find detailed technique guides elsewhere
Rayp
  Posted: Jan 16 2004, 09:34 PM


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It took me a while to compile all this. For some reason most site dedicated to FF cars don't bother discussing driving techniques, and other driving sites don't bother talking about FFs... Enjoy smile.gif.
VRr1FD
Posted: Jan 18 2004, 08:57 AM


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ff's can be pretty decent grip (fast turning) cars. they can even oversteer if you tune them or whip them for it... they just can't drift. but hey, drifting isn't everything. i don't think at the top levels it's easy for an FF to keep up with another drive train on a track, but they can be setup pretty well if you know what you are doing.
AJS13
Posted: Jan 18 2004, 11:53 AM


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QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ Nov 11 2003, 06:01 PM)
FF wasn't made to be a perfomance car but Honda/Acura made that a little less true by introducing the Type-R Integra and the Type-R Civic. Trying to do stuff like burn-outs in an FF car can hurt your drivetrain. But putting the e-brake on and pressing the gas is fun, lol.

The original Mini has been a performance car since the 60s, With the Cooper S as its normal performance version, people then modded the mini to what they were using it for. It won many races in the 60s, and there was even a mini that did a 1/4 mile in 13 seconds.

I mean it wasnt as high performance as the Honda's of today, but for its time it was a great car.

Also FF cars that do burnouts end up with a screwed up gearbox.
It's funny really, you hear people getting told that it will cost them later when they do it, but the never listen to you. And then they spend money to fix it, and go back out and do Burnouts again.
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 2 2004, 06:28 PM


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Nice, it finally got pinned smile.gif.
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 5 2004, 07:38 PM


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QUOTE (Tai-Mai-Shu @ Jun 14 2003, 11:46 AM)
- FF cars cannot drift because it bends the laws of physics (which I have learned like have a dozen terms from reading)

Well, this is the only thing that I really found to respond to so I will respond to it.

You also have to remember that there are MANY other things that happen during a drift that "defy" the laws of physics, and in some sense, practicing still those certain, outdated, laws is irrelevant. Once I find the money to fix/buy a new digital camera then I will get some friends to take pictures of me drifting down the Apps. in my 98 GAGT. You won't believe it, but 20,000 dollars does a lot to a car, even breaking rules that weren't meant to be broken.

On to something else about FF's.

The one thing that I hate about some FF owners, is that they are INTENT on the fact that a HUGE FRIGGIN REAR SPOILER creates traction on the front end of the car... dry.gif . Unless you have a big a$$ air splitter up there, that wing is going to do you nothing at all.

At the current rate that I am going, the car has no wing, a partial molded body kit, air splitter, carbon hood, cast white rims that match the original rolling stock, only more wide. There are some other exterior carbon parts as well but those are more for look and are being taken off soon enough. The suspension setup is where it really is kicked in the balls. I am NOT going to tell you what the settings are on, cause that's me and my "teams" secret. I will tell you though, that there are huge sway bars in front and back. Tein gas struts and Eibach coilovers on all corners. The car sits about three inchs lower to the ground and has nearly nonexistant bodyroll. The engine is something else alltogether though. Almost the entire interior of the block, from the pan to the headers has all been replaced with performance components. Not to mention a new ignition system, intake, manifold, enlarged downpipe... remove CAT... dry.gif ... 2.5" exhaust piping leading to a Vsplit pipe and to a couple of Tanabe Fireballs... ooooooo pretty. Like I said, once this winter crap is over and I can keep the car clean for a friggin weak, and when I get my new camera, there will be picture... oh there will be pictures.

For now, KNOW THIS!!! FrontFronts can drift as good as anything else, but it takes heart, pride, and more balls then a bowling alley to get anywhere with it. To anyone and everyone that wants to go somewhere with your FF but thinks that it's... too much of a hassel and whatnot... SCREW THAT!!! It's your car, your image, your dream... no one should be able to turn you from your dream!!! KEEP IT ON!!!
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 6 2004, 05:51 AM


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.:: Miz ::. : I want to see that car smile.gif. But be warned though, claiming to drift with a FF here attract flames (i don't mind, but many do), so just say it slide very well tongue.gif. I also like to do drift like cornering with my car, even if it's nothing like the car you describe. But it does sliiiiiiide a lot when i'm into it, and don't need e-brake for this.

Btw, do you use any of the techniques i described (besides the e-brake) to do your cornering?
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 11:15 AM


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It really depends on what kind/type of corner I am coming up to. If it's something like a huge sweeper, a simple flick will get the car broken from traction and sliding across the ground all nice and nice. With most turns though, especially when it comes to Touge, it's almost always an Inertia Drift or something else around there. When it comes to a massive hairpin though, along a flat or slightly banked road, decelerate coming into the turn, left foot brake for a little under a second to brake traction while going slightly into the turn, mash the ebrake when you reach about... 10-20 feet from the apex, depending on your entry speed and road conditions, press the ebrake release and really pull into the turn. By this time the car should be at a wonderfully perpendicular angle, with the nose of the car near the inside apex at a... 60 degree angle, maybe a little tighter. Countersteer and step on the gas. Acceleration for my nimble FF almost rivals the insane pickup a properly driven Skyline has. Oh, and I know this. I have a friend that I will call Ryo that lives inside one of the northern prefictures(sp?) of Japan and loooooves his Skyline. Oh, and if you EVER get to drive a skyline, even down a straight road in the middle of nowhere, do it, there's nothing else like it. I have driven the hell out of rented Corvettes and 8 cylinder, supercharged Mustangs and there is still nothing like shifting at a 10k redline, hearing the foosh of a 300 dollar blowoff valve and then listening to the nitrous being poured into a car as you rocket from 0 to 100 in less then 10 seconds. It's almost terrifying... but that's my goal for the GrandAm, pure... unadultered speed and agility. Like mixing a Miata with a Skyline... this should be something queer of nature.

Oh yeah, let them flame about FF's not being able to drift, it's them in the wrong, not me so I could really care less. I know the ability of the front driven car and I stand behind it will all of my pride and dignity.
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 6 2004, 02:12 PM


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I think we might become good friends .:: Miz ::. biggrin.gif. Up until now we were very few FF believers in this board, and i was probably the only one who did push his own that hard into corners smile.gif. As you can guess, i did a lot of research and experiments with my FFs (hey, i'm the one who started this thread smile.gif ), and probably did almost every possible techniques a FF can pull off... Even made my very owns. But i'm limited to what a nearly 20 years old, nearly stock old Honda Accord can do (still a lot)...

Just curious, how fast a car can corner in Touge (especially a FF)?


[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 10:22 PM


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The POWER of the car does not seriously matter. The real thing that that does though, is that you will have to watch the gas when applying it to countersteer and correct yourself during a turn. If you put too much into it, you could either eat the apex, or hit the guardrail... bad. You don't want a car with INSANE power though, just one that pushed near 400hp MAX and weighs... I'd saaaaaay, 2400lbs? Somewhere around there. Those aren't MY car specs, but that's the MAX in both areas that I would go to, although you might have MORE weight on your car, which is easily and cheaply solved. With more power, you need to be more careful, and more careful, can't help with being MORE CAREFUL with MORE POWER. It pays off big time on the straights though, big time. Being able to pull on just about anyone is a MASSIVE plus for you, obviously. I am looking into something though, something weird... something called, a Scion... not for drifting... but for sleeping. Quack... quack.

BTW... without looking at my profile... how old am I?

This post has been edited by .:: Miz ::. on Feb 6 2004, 10:23 PM
SuperMazdaKart
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 11:14 PM


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got pictures of this Accord Rayp?? I, Renesis of the Adelaide RoadPouncers will challenge you & your Accord with my 121 one day.

hahah, just kidding
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 11:24 PM


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Hey Rayp... got AIM?
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 6 2004, 11:52 PM


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QUOTE (RENESIS @ Feb 6 2004, 11:12 PM)
  RENESIS : got pictures of this Accord Rayp??

I did post my Accord Picture before, just don't remember in wich thread (probably along my 86 picture, or in the thread about my old clunker smile.gif ). But that car isn't pretty, still holding but it's age shows... Btw, what is a 121? tongue.gif


QUOTE
Hey Rayp... got AIM?


No, but got Trillan (with both ICQ and MSN account on it).


This post has been edited by Rayp on Feb 6 2004, 11:55 PM
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 11:57 PM


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Hit me up with something at:

Fluffyannialation@hotmail.com <~~ MSN

MizerokRominus <~~ AIM
SuperMazdaKart
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 12:03 AM


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QUOTE (Rayp @ Feb 7 2004, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE
Btw, what is a 121? tongue.gif


see the link in my sig to my cardomain biggrin.gif it too is an FF

This post has been edited by RENESIS on Feb 7 2004, 12:05 AM
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 7 2004, 12:26 AM


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QUOTE (RENESIS @ Feb 7 2004, 12:01 AM)
see the link in my sig to my cardomain biggrin.gif it too is an FF

Oh, i remember having seen your car a while back, but forgot about it. About the same size, if not smaller than my old Civic 87 i had (and probably as fun to drive). I remember you said it wasn't fast, but could go about anywhere (where no bigger car would dare to go, Lol).

.:: Miz ::. : Added you to my list (MSN).
SuperMazdaKart
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 08:10 AM


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well, the speedo reads up to 170KPH. which is pretty fair for a car of this type & age. acceleration is pretty decent too, when you get out of 1st gear. 1st gear redlines at 6000RPM with 50KPH & the stock exhaust is rather restrictive so getting a better one should give it more push indeed. not that i need it for any particular performance reasons, it'd just be real nice for going uphill smile.gif

i kinda like dislike how (around here anyway) people stereo type small car drivers to be slow, it's drivers like us that prove that wrong biggrin.gif
AJS13
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 01:55 PM


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QUOTE (RENESIS @ Feb 8 2004, 05:08 AM)
i kinda like dislike how (around here anyway) people stereo type small car drivers to be slow, it's drivers like us that prove that wrong biggrin.gif

Everyone thinks that here aswell, then me and my Mini show up. Ive converted a few people in to thinking Minis arnt bad like most people think.
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 05:49 PM


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Gah! Mini's are crazy!!! AHHH!!!
TRD-hachi-roku
Posted: Feb 7 2004, 08:24 PM


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i love mini's...the new ones though are fat 300 pound cake addicts that needs to call jenny craig, but the old mini's...those are the true meaning of fast and the furious...
Rayp
  Posted: Feb 7 2004, 08:32 PM


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Ahhh... You all remind me of the old days, in my old Civic. It was the old school one, when Civic were still so small and agile (and turned 180 on a dime). You can't imagine how crazy driver i was with that 60 hp car. That old 320 000 km car still had so much to give. Having known what i know now about carburator, it would have been even nicer... It wasn't a very fast car, but sure got good headstart at red lights and cornered so well (and i did waste a lot of tyres with it due to my insane cornering and extreme braking). I miss it a lot...

[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 8 2004, 07:58 AM


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Reminds me of me when I had my Fiero... stuck to the road like it was on rails.
Wes
Posted: Feb 12 2004, 09:28 PM


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yea i hate ricers. Theres this guy at my school who has an accord like mine (sig) cept its turquiose, it has fat dents in it, its lowered with hubcaps, 4 foot high double deck carbon fiber spoiler and its auto. Look at my car. Dont try to be what your not!
VRr1FD
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 07:07 AM


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QUOTE (.:: Miz ::. @ Feb 5 2004, 07:36 PM)


You also have to remember that there are MANY other things that happen during a drift that "defy" the laws of physics, and in some sense, practicing still those certain, outdated, laws is irrelevant. Once I find the money to fix/buy a new digital camera then I will get some friends to take pictures of me drifting down the Apps. in my 98 GAGT. You won't believe it, but 20,000 dollars does a lot to a car, even breaking rules that weren't meant to be broken.


ff's can't drift by nature. there is nothing you can do about it.

ff's CAN oversteer, but they can't drift. they keep the rear end out without e-braking because they don't have power going to the rear. nothing anyone can do about it.
[ Mizerok ]
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 08:23 AM


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Har har, I know what I know... and I do what I do. So you can say what you want... no matter how off it is. grin2.gif

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