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Posted by: mercy May 29 2004, 06:37 PM

I am a deprived boy. I will be getting my first car very soon and plan to get a 95 Integra or 1991 RX-7. Of course I plan on getting it stick, but the thing is my parents both drive automatics and dont know how to drive stick, how hard it is, etc. Also I would like to know how long it takes to learn becasue the only way i see myself learning it is to rent a car and practice off but money per day will be expensive. If you know any other ways for me to learn stick in my situation plz share it. Also explain the steps into starting out because i heard once u pull out of 1st its easy from there

Posted by: sideways May 29 2004, 08:27 PM

learning to drive a stick is VERY easy; takes about 30 mintues to learn how to do it.. maybe a couple hours to be decent at it, but youll be able to get around.

if you have any questions really just IM me on AIM; freelancer900. if its technique related i can probably help ya, or 86/4age..yaa whatever

steps:

this i learned actually behind the wheel because no one told me... first Hold the clutch in to start the damn car, i thought you just had to be in neutral

biggest thing you can do is practice pressing the throttle in and holding it to about 2000-2500 rpms, dont move on until you can keep it there easily.. a well taught foot is your best friend so learn the pressure points

with the stick in 1st grear, slowly , SLOWLY release the clutch... keep doing it and youll start to move but your rpms will drop, so push slightly in on the gas to keep yourself around 2-3k rpms.

getting into first is the hardest part really- getting into 2nd is a breeze compared to this. Clutch in, select 2nd, releaset he clutch. If your slow on the clutch you make shake a bit, so youll have to compensate with a bit of gas as you release on the clutch to be "smooth".

braking is a little different as there are many ways to do it... You can just hold in the clutch (your rpms will drop to idle) and let your self cost, you can select a lower gear and use a bit of engine braking, you can alwyas use the brake pedal too- i find this one to work well.

most important thing when your learning is just let the clutch out slowly and be as "smooth" as possible on the clutch. as ive said, IM me on aim if you got other questions.

Posted by: Indecisive May 29 2004, 10:27 PM

sideways explained it well. but I'd like to correct something. when you're driving and you're coasting then press the clutch the car will go faster a bit because the driveline is free...no restrictions anymore so your wheels just turn. may not be the same for all cars but I would suspect so...I've only driven 3 manual cars(Nissan NX1600, bmw 318i and nissan 200sx) but it's been the same.

as for time...to get started...only a few hours tops. to get it down well, up to a week. it took me 5 days to learn going out @ 1/2 hr - 1 hr sessions each time.

the hardest part, like was stated, is starting. so I suggest you practice that the most. try to start and go up to 3rd gear smoothly then slowdown and park on the road and then start out in first again. the more you get the hang of balancing your clutch, the easier it will become.

the way I learned clutch control was when i got stuck in a traffic jam going uphill...not the best places to learn cause the margin of error was so low but it forced me to keep calm and make sure I got the steps right.

g'luck learning. don't get discouraged if you keep stalling. take your time and learn how far you can let the clutch up before it dies.

soon enough you'll be able to drive as well as the best of us drivers out there heh.

just cause you have nobody to teach you doesnt mean you can't learn. as long as you figure out what you're supposed to do, the only other thing you need is practice.

I taught myself how to drive stick too.

Posted by: sideways May 29 2004, 10:55 PM

hmm my car slows down right away as soon as i push in and hold the clutch...the momentum will carry the car for a few but since its only coasting itll only go so far... oh well not a problem for me; i usually heel toe actually unless im comming to a full stop then i just hold in the clutch and brake to a stop.

added: oh ya.. thought you might like to know why; from my experience heel-toe is one of the best ways to down shift and slow down, its much smoother for me and its nicer on the transmission (plus i enjoy showing off

)..

and i wanted to comment about braking with the clutch as i had mentioned before; t works and it works great but you shouldnt get used to JUST doing that, brakes are easier and cheaper to replace then a clutch.

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 30 2004, 12:35 AM

so wen you're driving...you have to be on the clutch? like you can't take your foot off of it?

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 01:28 AM

As you push in the clutch; it releases the transmission from the engine.. as you realease it, it slowly pushes it back against it

...so in other words to ur question; no, other way around.

Posted by: mercy May 30 2004, 08:09 AM

but is it true that whenever you break u have to tap or hold the clutch. Thank you for the steps for I understand, but dont know what to do when you slow down. Also I heard you can downshift 2-3 gears as long as your braking to the mph for that specific gear. Is this true

Posted by: Rayp May 30 2004, 11:16 AM

As long as you are at the right gear for the current speed, there is no problem. If you are too low, the rev will skyrocket. If you are too high, the engine will bug down. Just learn what speed your gears are good for...

Posted by: Indecisive May 30 2004, 11:43 AM

you only really have to step on the clutch when you're at or close to a complete stop, when you upshift and when you downshift.

when you're at a complete stop you can clutch in, shift to neutral and then let go of the clutch...but if you want to go again you'll have to put it into first gear before you go.

Posted by: VRr1FD May 30 2004, 11:58 AM

well, i grew up riding dirt bikes and racing 4wheelers so if you have that experiance atleast you'd have some practice finding gears and slipping clutches.

remember that the clutch is NOT an on/off button, you need to slip it. while it does wear when you slip, they key is to learn just how mutch to slip it and do it no more than needed. also never use the clutch slip to hold you on a hill, that's way into the catagory of too much cluch work. use the brakes in that situation.

remember that it's also NOT how mad quick you shift yo, it's how mad smooth. focus on smoothness and the quickness will come on it's own.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

read and learn how manual trannies actually work to understand what's going on and why.

Posted by: Indecisive May 30 2004, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (VRr1FD @ May 30 2004, 11:58 AM)

also never use the clutch slip to hold you on a hill, that's way into the catagory of too much cluch work. use the brakes in that situation.

ahhaha, I always balance on hills...s'ok..I want a new clutch neways

ahha

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 02:53 PM

one of the hardest thing about stick is getting into gear on a hill (if your going up hill i mean, down hill is easy). and in traffic man... since you roll back a little your worried if the idiot behind you left you room.. but if you can get into first wuickly on a hill, you can get into first anywhere

Posted by: Neo Xian Wu May 30 2004, 06:25 PM

how many times are we gonna go over this topic ><

Posted by: Indecisive May 30 2004, 07:00 PM

until we BEAT IT TO DEATH!!!!...too late eh?

if you want, put together the best info and make a sticky about it so we can just close every thread hereafter and refer to that thread. easiest solution.

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 07:00 PM

as many times as someone asks, i don mind answering it even if it has been asnwered before. i personally hate the search button; besides i like re-opening an old topic, makes it fresh and brings it new ideas without 10 pages of bs to sift through right away.

Posted by: fr86 May 30 2004, 07:23 PM

A buddy of mine stalled 3 times in arow in his 86. haha i but then he drove it really well very soon, learner really quick, he says i can learn in his car. Gotta get my learners, so lame, 1 year and 7 months late.

NEXT WEEK!!! (i said that so many times it hurts..)

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 07:27 PM

i only stalled while trying to get into first with no gas... you gotta go REAAALLLYYY slowl

Posted by: fr86 May 30 2004, 07:32 PM

I think he stalled cause of very bad clutch. cause the car wouldent get in gear after 3k rpm, the clutch is terrible, he gettin new one installed. Cant wait for him to get new one!!

Other time we were sittin in car and he was just runnin the engine in nuetral and i accidently put the gear in 5th while reaching for cell. O_O

"vrooooooom..vrooooom. puhpuh..*silence*" hehe

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 08:14 PM

lol this car makes it hard to put into 5th and reverse on purpose.. good feat; you sure you didnt put it into 4th? lol

Posted by: fr86 May 30 2004, 08:32 PM

i put into the top right gear i think, maybe top middle. cant forth cause i know it went up. Either 3rd or 5th.. Everyon laughed, it was really funny at the moment cause it was a short while after he stalled the car the first 3 times. Everyone with us laughed at him.

Posted by: sideways May 30 2004, 10:25 PM

3rd thats right... lol forth is down oops

Posted by: Project D May 31 2004, 06:28 AM

a week to learn a month to master, you get better as tme goes. it isnt hard at all.

the only things to remember is engagint the clutch froma stop to go and getting used to third gear from second.

Posted by: Alex May 31 2004, 09:21 AM

So you ALWAYS have to let off VERY slowly? Can't wait till my uncle teaches me in person so I can see just how slow... but on the otherhand, my uncle doesn't take the best care of his Mitsu, so he may just let that clutch off the second he puts it in the gear he wants.

How do you find the right RPM to shift? I know in racing, you shift in a high RPM, near the redline, but for daily driving, on the average car what's the right shift point? And what's a "powerband"? I've heard of it, but only have skimmed the surface as of what it really is.

Posted by: mercy May 31 2004, 09:44 AM

I heard that during daily drving u change gears at 3500 rpm or you change it when you hear the engine giving off more power than it can take. The engine makes noises to alert you whether its giving too much or too little power but im pretty sure its 3500 rpm

Posted by: Rayp May 31 2004, 11:57 AM

Every car is different, but 3500 is good for most Japanese/Corean car. Larger engine car/truck like most American ones shift pretty low since they don't rev as high and they have a pretty low redline...

Posted by: Indecisive May 31 2004, 01:35 PM

QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ May 31 2004, 09:21 AM)

don't have to let off the clutch slowly. thats only if you want a really smooth ride. personally I only worry about a smooth ride when I have passengers so I just get into gear and let the clutch up normally. not like racing speed but I don't worry about smoothness.

btw...when we say smoothness it just means we dont' let the car jerk when we shift.

when you want to get the most performance out as possible...you wanna shift closer to where your peak HP is. say your engine specs are 170hp@ 6000rpm. so you'll want to shift closer to 6000rpm. your power band is a few hundred RPM within your peak RPM. like in this example between maybe 5800RPM and 6200RPM...maybe even more. between that rpm is when your engine is making it's most power. anymore or anyless and you're making less than peak power.

for daily driving anywhere between 3000rpm - 4000rpm is a good shift point. I personally shift at 3000rpm. it doesn't give me the best acceleration but it conserves gas. and remember, in instances where you're going like 3000rpm in 4th and you need to accelerate faster for some reason, just pop it into 3rd and your rpms will jump to around 4000rpm and you'll be closer to your powerband and just punch it.

Posted by: Alex May 31 2004, 02:52 PM

Yeah, didn't think about how what gear you're in will affect your gas usage. BTW, what's the (reg.) gas prices for you guys? It's $1.90US here.

Posted by: fr86 May 31 2004, 03:13 PM

we pump your gas and its 89 cents/liter here.

Posted by: Indecisive May 31 2004, 03:32 PM

it's 99.9cents/litre for regular here.

Posted by: Alex May 31 2004, 03:55 PM

err. We do it in gallons you damn metric people, lol.

Posted by: sideways May 31 2004, 04:23 PM

A engine has whats known as a "power band" these are the rpms where the engine is at its peak preformance, or the rpm range where the engine is tuned to make all of its horsepower.

You can let out the clutch as fast as you want, as long as you give it enough gas to not stall the engine. if you let it out too fast, the car will shake/stutter/stall this is known as "popping the clutch".. So you can put it into first, release the clutch immediatly and floor the gas if you wish.. but youll burn out and smoke your tires; not something you want to be doing in traffic.

Posted by: Rayp May 31 2004, 05:24 PM

Also, suddently releasing the clutch when the engine is high reving in low gear isn't firendly to the transmission, engine etc... Expensive repairs can results of abuse like thoses (CV joints, transmission, engine, rear suspension etc).

Posted by: sideways May 31 2004, 05:26 PM

for my car you need to shift right at redline everytime.. no matter the gear; or else you fall right out of the power band

added: its really just about how "smooth" you are in the process

Posted by: Indecisive May 31 2004, 05:44 PM

another thing to know about is your torque band.

when you drift, the key is not dropping below your torque band. just thot I'd add that.

in most cars the torque band is around 3200rpm+-

Posted by: fr86 May 31 2004, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (Indecisive @ May 31 2004, 03:32 PM)

it's 99.9cents/litre for regular here.

where are u from?

still... to damn expensive. we pump the shit, AB government is gayness..

Posted by: Indecisive May 31 2004, 07:15 PM

to the west of you. I'm in BC.

but back on topic.

Posted by: sideways May 31 2004, 07:15 PM

Torque for drift is really mis-understood. Most import will reach their max toqrue BY 4000. Torque is really important off the line acceleration, and of course if yoru towing something. Torque really isnt an issue unless you REALLY suck at managing your engines rpms, since the powerband of most imports is above the max torque figure.

Posted by: astrogameguy Jun 1 2004, 04:40 AM

Driving stick is not hard at all. it took me around 45 minutes to learn. i was driving my friends Honda Accord. That car was the wrong car for me to learn on. It was fully decked out with a turbo. Its not good when you trying to learn to drive stick and your friends keeps dropping the car on you.

But, basically, once you launch its really easy from there. Here is a secret, if you take your shoes off and drive with your toes for about 15 minutes, you can feel the clutch catch and you will be better as far as slowly launching or quickly launching. it sounds crazy, but trust me, its really really easy, once you get the hang of it.

Posted by: Alex Jun 1 2004, 05:35 AM

This is a great topic. I suggest pinning it and keeping it open for discussion, I'm sure a lot of us new drivers or soon-to-be drivers are learning A LOT, I know I am.

Posted by: sideways Jun 1 2004, 07:10 AM

i never got a "feel" for it, more or less i "know" whats going on with the different pressures of the pedals. I have steel toed shoes with a thick bottom, and can feel nothing. The only time i noticed a different is when i pushed the clutch with my right foot, i can feel a "Give away" point since your right foot developes more of a finese touch to it, and the left foot is jsut accustomed to pushing the pedal hard. also if you try and press the gas with your left foot it feel feather-light (until youve trained a finese into your left foot anyways)

added: as soon as i get the chance to im going to buy some like vans or something better so i can learn the "Feel" ive heard about, itd also make quick actions that need a different finese like heel-toe easier (considering im 6'2 and have a 12 or so, lighter more "nimble" shoes would be a big help)

Posted by: Neo Xian Wu Jun 1 2004, 09:20 AM

i just hope people see this instead of opening yet ANOTHER thread ><

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Jun 1 2004, 11:43 AM

this is somewhat off topic but...

sidewaysgts: get those pumas with the thin bottom, there are some that they make for driving or something like that...notsuper expensive, like 50-70 thats the prices i've seen for those...there was a special version which has sparco stitchings...but i've worn those for a lil...feels pretty damn good...

Posted by: Indecisive Jun 1 2004, 12:31 PM

I can't imagine learning how to drive stick w/o learning to feel clutch engagement...

Posted by: sideways Jun 1 2004, 01:04 PM

Thanks TRD i know what ill be looking for then

i should have been looking around actually; anyone else know a great shoe to get my feet into or anyone else agree with trd on the pumas? (and hey; having good shoes leads to learning foot control leads to better stick control...so its on topic)

Posted by: fr86 Jun 6 2004, 02:03 PM

Um... revived for all the wrong reasons..

But, i got my leaners. =D

1 year 7 months late but i have it god damn it. gahahahaha, gonna try driving my buddies 86 soon.

Posted by: sideways Jun 6 2004, 02:13 PM

Your one lucky mofo

you shall soon see why i love my 86

Posted by: fr86 Jun 6 2004, 02:25 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Jun 6 2004, 02:13 PM)

Your one lucky mofo

you shall soon see why i love my 86

yeppers, also i will talk to they guy who has the 86 in my neighboor hood. I'm not gonna buy it if more then 1200 cause i know i can find one for that much here...

If i cant.. 4agze AW11 for me. =D

Posted by: sideways Jun 7 2004, 02:13 AM

lol man... where the hell are you that you can find an 86 for 1200? theres one on ebay, pretty stock with the exception of lights and seats goign for over 3000, and it wasnt even up for a day yet

Posted by: fr86 Jun 7 2004, 06:20 AM

In Edmonton.

I said before, some people dont know the value of what they have.

Posted by: Alex Jun 7 2004, 08:45 AM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Jun 6 2004, 06:13 PM)

Your one lucky mofo

you shall soon see why i love my 86

I want to hear the opinion of a guy that's into cars and knows a true good car from a bad car, and I want him to never heard of the AE86. Then, I want him to drive it and give his full opinion on it. That'd be the true test.

Posted by: sideways Jun 7 2004, 09:59 AM

As ive said before, about 10% of the people with an 86 dont know what they have.. but thats getting rarer and rarer as people find these people

All i can really say is good luck onthe hunt buddy; around me, you MAY find a gem like that.. but on average youll have to pay about 3000 bucks for it... one just went in the paper, 3995...

Posted by: Trey Ayanami Jun 20 2004, 05:04 PM

I was looking at an sr5 about a month back in our local lot for about 1800, not as great as the ae but you can always spend and tweak it... but cash is always the setback

Posted by: sideways Jun 20 2004, 10:27 PM

Tweak it? man that sr5 isnt worth your money.

the 3au (i think thats it) is a carbed engine that pumps out an incredible 90 horsepower, the suspension is way too soft to do anything with it. You try and lowwer it on those shock like yo ucould with a normal 86 youd be hitting your car agaisnt it self from the leaning it would be doing. the option for LSD was never given to it. And the back brakes are drum brakes, instead of disk brakes.

The car, to make this even on par with an 86, is WAY too much..

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Jul 15 2004, 10:09 PM

gts conversion...

Posted by: fr86 Jul 15 2004, 10:15 PM

f**k, anything over 1k canadian is way to much money for even corolla gts.

If u get a 86 during the craze u are just wasting your money. Any other sporty car for 1800 will kill the 86 no question asked.

1800 for sr5!?!?! mite as well flush your money down the toilet!!!

edit: again i dont hate 86, i like i like!!! But their "value" during the craze is ridicoules!!!!

Posted by: sideways Jul 16 2004, 12:28 PM

Gts conversion isnt worth it, youll spend more in the long run then if you just went and straight out bought a gts

Fr86 your name surprises me- you seem to liek the 86 or something but you seriously put it down. in a straight line the 86 gets smocked by almost anythign with an engine nowadays, but put it on the technical course with the proper tuning (basic engine upgrades, and then a suspension.. i have a trd set on mine) they can keep up with even the newer cars of today. They handle very well, and after about 4400 rpms the engines rpms actually start to accelerate where most cars start to slow down. In other words, it takes awhile to get going but once you get there you can stay there if your good enough.

Posted by: Mike Aug 1 2004, 12:50 PM

Hey, this might be an old dead topic, but im new and wanted to add my thoughts. Ive been driving a 'stick shift' (god damn just call it a manual

) for nearly 2 years now, and some of the advice given while good wasnt actually teh best. For starters when you first start driving a manual, firstly u should have the hand brake on, this stops and stalling as long as you go slow. With the hand brake on, you need to press the clutch in, move the into 1st gear, once in first gear with the clutch fully depressed you need to get some revs going 2000 to 4000 as people have suggested is good, but 4000 is a bit high really, but once the revs are constant, you then need to slowly bring the clutch up, when the clutch is maybe half way to 3 quarters of the way fully up (depends on the car) around this point the car will lurch, at this point stop, this si because youve found the bite and gone past, the clutch should go slightly, and only slightly back down, after this, you can release the hand brake, keeping both feet at the asme points, and the car will slowly move forward, after this with the car rooling, you can bring the left foot up on the clutch and put the accelerator down more to move off. I know this may not be the most techinical way, but tis damn easy for people who are new to manuls to learn.

Also people say that a clutch should be brought up slowly when changing gears because this saves the trasmission,thats not really true, when i change gears i only ever bring the clutch up slowly when my parents are in the car, and thats just to sotp them from saying im 'racing all the time' you can bring a clutch up in half a second and as long as you fractionally stop when you hit the bite (you need to know your car inside out and exactly where the bite is for this) you can change gear in no time at all, and not lurch or jump etc.

This isnt the gospel as evyerone drives differently, but this is jsut my advice for people learning

Posted by: sideways Aug 1 2004, 02:36 PM

Good advice and good point- different cars will be just that, different. I can actually get my car going and into first with no gas at all down hill, flat, and uphill (buuut on uphill its not smart.. since you roll back

)

Posted by: Iceman Aug 20 2004, 10:35 PM

hm. well it looks like im gonna be gettin a car soon (an '85 porsche 944) which happens to be a stick so im gonna have to learn... on the streets of dallas...
at least i've been driving for a year or two, so i won't have to learn both at once. helpful thread here. i had a little misconception over the clutch letting-out thing, but when you put in the clutch do you do it fast or slow? thx.

Posted by: sideways Aug 20 2004, 11:24 PM

To know why your doing what your doing- it really helps to know whats going on. Go check out "howstuffworks.com" and look for transmissions, theres a good section there on them.

But anyways- It doesnt really matter, but if your upshifting/downshifting i suggest doing it as fast as possible. Its not really THAT much better, but as you start to push the clutch pedal in- the clutch will slip on the flywheel a bit, the less its slipping i guess- the longer itll last... but this is a REAL nit picky thing- and wouldnt really make a difference.
____
In all hoensty- Just push it in as fast as your comfortable with at that time.

Posted by: pat86 Nov 12 2004, 01:58 AM

quick question....do u have to hold the clutch in everytime u break ? what if its just light breaking then u immediately go back to gas, do you hold your clutch at the same position or do you have to push it in again ?

Posted by: sideways Nov 12 2004, 02:03 AM

Nope, you dont have to touch the clutch for normal braking. Only time you press in the clutch is when youd be braking hard enough to stall the engine (IE you make your revs drope below like 1000 rpms haha)

Posted by: RakeRon Nov 13 2004, 09:00 AM

I learned to drive a manual in my Duster. Had to buy it behind my Mom's back because she despises manuals and when I was young I didn't have access to my money in the bank because it required her to cosign the release. Pissed me off alot because she wouldn't even let me look at a car if it was a manual back then so I had to learn how to drive it on my own. Took me like 5 - 10 mins to learn it and I got better as the days went on. Now I refuse to drive anything but manuals and she doesn't understand why nor am I gonna waste my time trying to explain it to her. Anyway now that I'm finished ranting I guess I should get to what I was originally gonna post.

In my Duster there is no hand brake, its a pedal ebrake so I had to learn better throttle control to keep from spinning the tires and from rolling back on hills. Next car I'm gonna get is an AE92 GTS wich I have my sights set on. One just came up for sale next door so I'm trying to round up the cash to get it.

Posted by: sideways Nov 16 2004, 01:43 AM

Why a 92 anyways?

Posted by: SuperWhite92 Nov 16 2004, 02:03 AM

That's crazy, she wouldn't let you buy a manual? What's her big gripe against them? My parents basically forced me to drive a stick shift. Then I taught my friends. I couldn't do without it.

Posted by: RakeRon Nov 16 2004, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Nov 16 2004, 01:43 AM)

Why a 92 anyways?

Because the 86 is over priced and over hyped.

Besides I like the way the 92 looks, I don't mind driving an FF, there's less rust on the 92s, and they're cheaper than the 86.

As for what my mother's problems with manuals are I dunno. I guess because she's been driving automatics for so long she can't drive a stick. That and I guess she had some perverse idea of borrowing my car when her's is in the shop or something.

Posted by: speedway_pinoy Nov 21 2004, 09:27 PM

I got a question about upshifting

what are the rpm shift pionts when regualry drivling? also what is the shiftpoints when street racing?

Posted by: Iceman Nov 21 2004, 11:16 PM

^^if this is a serious post,
https://idforums.net/index.php?showtopic=9555
and for street racing just shift as much as possible. to quote my buddy char,

QUOTE (char)

More sh1ftz= More dr1ftz

no really the best way to shift in street racing is to rev to your redline and then upshift and then do it again and then put it in reverse to show the dude how fly ur mad whip is.

edit: sorry about that i got a little carried away.

for street racing:
1-2 2k rpm
2-3 4k rpm
3-4 4k rpm
4-5 1000k rpm
5-R 2 rpm

Posted by: Luken Nov 24 2004, 08:03 PM

just wondering how do you put a manual car in park?

Posted by: sideways Nov 24 2004, 08:08 PM

3 things you can do

A) Pull the hand brake

Turn the car off and leave it in gear

C) A+B

As for me.. i have no hand brake so im forced to leave it in gear (not always a sure-fire way but works 95% of the time)

Posted by: circle Nov 25 2004, 03:53 PM

might slightly be off-topic but i think this show the importance of why we have to learn how to use manual and automatic transmissions......

i was watching the latest episodes of the amazing race and there were these 2 friends who could drive a MT properly. and because of that they were eliminated from the race.

Posted by: sideways Nov 25 2004, 07:11 PM

say what

Posted by: mercy Nov 25 2004, 07:39 PM

lol i made this topic 3-5 months ago. good to see ppl still talking about it

Posted by: Nd4SpdSe Nov 25 2004, 08:47 PM

The first time i drove standard was when i test drove my Mx-3, the owner actually tough me

I always wanted to drive stick...I loved it and still love it to this day..except in really really slow traffic, than it sucks

Posted by: sideways Nov 25 2004, 09:20 PM

Doesnt bother me in traffic anymore (though when i first started to post in this thread it did) thankfully i have a light clutch

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 25 2004, 09:34 PM

I've driven a manaul on and off for awhile, and I was wondering... Is there any easy way to do the toe-to-heel with the gas and brake pedal? My feet are so small I can barely get one foot on both, and I hate using the clutch to hold the car on a uphill start.

Posted by: sideways Nov 25 2004, 09:35 PM

Your feet are too small?... ive never heard of that as being a problem, ever... its always feet are too big

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 25 2004, 09:57 PM

yes, I'm barely 5 feet tall, half okinawan. and am told, "d@mn! you have some small" of course, I get asked often if I need a phonebook while driving.

Anyway... Maybe people with small feet don't drive manuals.

Posted by: sideways Nov 25 2004, 10:04 PM

So if you have the toes of your right foot on the brakes, your right heel cant reach the gas?

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 25 2004, 10:36 PM

Yup, and if I can, my heel usually just slips right off when I press down, or my toe.

Posted by: sideways Nov 25 2004, 10:39 PM

What size shoe do you wear

Posted by: Mike Nov 26 2004, 05:53 AM

I was going to say man, how small are your feet, I'm 5'7 an thats pretty damn small for a 19 year old English fello, have feet that seem to vary between about a 7 and an 8. But i manage to heel and toe any car i get my hands on in size 7 converse and thats with lots of room to spare in most cars. Only car i cant heel and toe is dads car (god damn organ pedal accelerator). So i dont think your size should be a problem really, just practice with the car shut off in your driveway. If you still cant manage, get yourself down to a parts selling place and find some big ass pedals. Im sure they must sell em, probably in a nice chromo so all the ricer boi's get a nice shine from their foot well. But seriously though, if you really want to do it, theres only really two solutions, one bigger pedals (i was being serious

they do actually make pedals bigger than some stock, might be had to find) or u can try the other method of heel and toe, which aint really 'heel and toe' its more knife and edge or some shitniz ive heard it called, it may work in your car i dont know, what you do is place your right foot in between the brake and accelerator pedal, from there you apply pressure with either side of your foot, apparently its meant to be easier than standard heel and toe but i elarnt to heel and toe from day one and this method just scares the beejesus out of me, but it mite help you along. If not post here and im sure someone will have some crazy solution.

Posted by: sideways Nov 26 2004, 11:48 AM

If he cant reach the pedal from top to bottom of his foot, i doubt using the side of his feet (shorter) is going to work too well. Thats a technique used by people who have overly big feet and cant heel-toe properly, its great when theres a lackage of room.

But the pedal thing ill agree with and was going to suggest is myself. Momo (or any knock of brand) makes giant square pedals, those might help becaise theyre much wider then stock pedals. Just go to an autozone and check out their pedals they tend to carry quit a few.

One last thing to think about is the car layout; what car are you trying to do this in? Some cars seem to be built for "heel toe" and have the pedals perfectly spaced, others are way too far or simply too close together to be done properly for most (some have the brake RIGHT next to the gas).

Posted by: Mike Nov 26 2004, 12:06 PM

QUOTE

If he cant reach the pedal from top to bottom of his foot, i doubt using the side of his feet (shorter) is going to work too well.

You never know could have really shotr and fat feet (note im not trying to be insulting now, just cover up my own stupidity

) But yeah, I would have suggestd a shop, but all we got is halfords, form sounds of it autozone is like the exact same type of shop, except along with all your 'riceicle' needs in halfords you can also buy bmx bikes lol anyway hope the pedal thing kinda answers your question.

Posted by: sideways Nov 26 2004, 12:33 PM

AUtozone is basicly a wannabe-ricers heaven. granted they have some thigns you can use, clutches, oil, wiring, etc... but they have lots of shift knobs neon lights steering-wheel covers racing seat covers gay pedals little lights that fit on the window-sprayers.. etc...

wall mart has stuff like that now too so you can always check them

that remidns me.. i need to get some new windshield wipers..

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 26 2004, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (Mike @ Nov 26 2004, 12:06 PM)

QUOTE

If he cant reach the pedal from top to bottom of his foot, i doubt using the side of his feet (shorter) is going to work too well.

You never know could have really shotr and fat feet (note im not trying to be insulting now, just cover up my own stupidity

I'm a she actually. And yes, I do have really short and fat feet.

the width of my feet are a female's size 7 (men's size 5) and the length is a female's size 5 (men's size 3).

I'm trying this now in a 91 celica. I orginally learned to drive a stick in a mazda truck, with a bad clutch.

My husband replaced the pedals with some cheap wal-mart ones that didn't make them much wider. I'll try autozone. Thanks guys.

Posted by: sideways Nov 26 2004, 06:21 PM

Kinda suspected u were a girl when u said u were 5 foot and your 20+ didnt wanna offend u if u were a ugy though.

Well your best bet is to get some aftermarket pedals, as i said momo makes osme pretty fat block style pedals which whould probably help you out.

Posted by: Indecisive Nov 26 2004, 06:35 PM

yep...a set of even cheapo $15 pedals will help you out. they're generally wider. stock there was a few inches between my stock pedals. with my momo pedals, only about an inch.

Posted by: Mike Nov 27 2004, 05:24 AM

apologies on the mix-up, me being a typical idiot lol. The whole shoe size measurement confused me lol, ive never heard of feet being measured in width and legnth, and also women have seperate sizes??? In england women just tend to fit into kids sizes (below uk 6) and most 'posh' going out shoes like stilettos etc are just made in that size, aint it great how im in a topic about changing gears on a manual car yet babbling about shoe sizes. Sa well. Hope you get it sorted, and if u cant find any pedals, go DIY!!, get the weldin kit out lol.

Posted by: Alex Nov 27 2004, 11:12 AM

QUOTE (prissandthehighwaystar @ Nov 26 2004, 07:38 PM)

My husband replaced the pedals with some cheap wal-mart ones that didn't make them much wider. I'll try autozone. Thanks guys.

ohh!! Are they the ones that clip on? haha.

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 27 2004, 02:31 PM

QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ Nov 27 2004, 11:12 AM)

ohh!! Are they the ones that clip on? haha.

Could be for all I know

I wasn't paying attention.

Posted by: SuperWhite92 Nov 27 2004, 03:06 PM

You'll still have a difficult time in the Celica. Being a 5th gen owner, I will tell you that the pedals were not intended to be able to heel toe. I myself wear a Men's size 12, and can reach from pedal to pedal, but the gas pedal is sunk waaay down from the brake pedal. Not to mention its basically touching the center console. I can't do it in my normal shoes, only my piloti's. Anyhow, keep practicing, and you'll find a way, no matter how uncomfortable it is.

Posted by: Alex Nov 27 2004, 04:09 PM

Yeah I've always hated the difference in elevation of a lot of pedals. I've never done real heel-toe but I've played around in the car while it was parked.

Posted by: Bunkka XL Nov 27 2004, 04:31 PM

is it me or is turning on the car and getting of the start the hardest ina stick car

Posted by: Alex Nov 27 2004, 05:13 PM

uhhhh for turning it on, don't you just press in the clutch, turn the ignition? lol.

Posted by: sideways Nov 27 2004, 05:38 PM

Pretty much...

Getting going into first is the hardest part if thats what he meant

Posted by: prissandthehighwaystar Nov 27 2004, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (SuperWhite92 @ Nov 27 2004, 03:06 PM)

Thanks, it actually helps to know that my car wasn't really meant for the heel to toe. Now I won't get too fustrated when it doesn't come easily.

Posted by: Mike Nov 28 2004, 06:03 AM

QUOTE

is it me or is turning on the car and getting of the start the hardest ina stick car

Hmmm, can be dangerous, as was said, you just bung clutch down and turn the key, but you 'only' need clutch down if the car has been left in gear. However its a good habit to be in. Everytime i start my car i always have the clutch in, however the one time i didnt do it, was the one time my dad had moved it to a different place in the drive without me knowing, left it in gear and the car flew forward and nearly pinned my brother rite up against the back of his car lol! Never been so scared in my life, we were just chattin shit as we both went to are cars which were one behind the other in the drive, i leaned in car still talkin and just started engine up without being in car, car lunges forward and nearly crushed him

It just goes to show, when a car is in a flat driveway, leaving it in first is not needed!!

(Incase some dont know, if its started up lke that it onyl lunges a few feet forward because it essentially stalls instantly, just hops a few feet forward, just enough to freak me and my brother though, so these days i ahve to be sat in my seat before i'll start the damn thing)

Maybe we should create a little step by step guide to starting and getting a manual car moving lol, mite be a nice help to kids who havent started learning yet and anyone who is only used to automatics, coz i assume if youve only ever been exposed to auto's, there seems to be a hell of a lot going on!

Posted by: RakeRon Nov 28 2004, 10:02 AM

I got in the habit of holding the clutch in because my car wouldn't start without it. Guess it was a safety kill switch, but I made it a habit to always do that and put it into neutral when I put it into park (wich also needed to be done since my car didn't have a hand ebrake it would stall out if I didn't put it in neutral).

Posted by: Mike Nov 28 2004, 03:15 PM

Sorry rakeron your post has utterly confused me. WHy havent you got a handbrake, it just broke?? Secondly if the car is in neutral it will start without the clutch. Also, if you have no handbrake yet leave it in neutral, how do yuo park on anything other thana flat surface without rolling anywhere lol, u got breeze blocks in your booth for behind the tyres lol

Posted by: sideways Nov 28 2004, 04:20 PM

Most cars dont start in neutral unless the clutch is in.

Posted by: Mike Nov 28 2004, 05:37 PM

Man ive driven manuals for more than two years and im now completely confused lol, i would go out and check now but im at uni and wont be home for about 3 weeks when its time for christmas but will defeintly check, meh im tired and confused

Time for some sleep before im forced to go to uni

Posted by: Bunkka XL Nov 28 2004, 06:29 PM

well i meant going into first sorrys!

Posted by: sideways Nov 28 2004, 06:35 PM

Most of the cars ive been in have a "clutch sensor" and the clutch needs to be pressed in all the way before the starter will turn on

Posted by: RakeRon Nov 29 2004, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Mike @ Nov 28 2004, 03:15 PM)

Thats because my car had a pedal ebrake and my car wouldn't start unless I put the clutch in regardless if it was in neutral or not, thats why I said I assumed it had a kill switch installed.

Posted by: sideways Nov 29 2004, 04:38 PM

Nah thats how all the cars (ive driven at least) are, in gear or neutral or not; you -need- the clutch in to start it. if you can start it with the clutch engaged, more then likely your clutch sensor (sensor to see if u got the clutch in or not) is broken.

Posted by: Iceman Nov 29 2004, 09:52 PM

not on my car.

Posted by: SircatmaN Dec 11 2004, 08:00 PM

To be honest mate, you really shouldn't buy an RX7 for your first car if you have never driven Manual before because not Only will you need to learn to drive manual, you need to learn to control a RWD car and on top of that the RX7 is turbo so you need to learn about boost.
Don't take it the wrong way, I just don;t want to hear about anyone sliding out in the rain into a tree because that accidentilly put there foot down and the boost kicked in loosing traction. I have to drive my S13 in like 5th gear at 1500 revs in the rain because it just wants to slide out around every corner, even on straight bloody roads!

Posted by: Blazafan30 Dec 11 2004, 08:23 PM

I doubt that a RWD will be a problem for too many drivers. I learned on a RWD and I had no idea it was RWD. I thought it was about the same as my Accord which is FWD and found out after it was gone. I drove in the snow and rain, etc etc no problems (while I had a permit too). RWD is the same as any car you'll slide if you drive too fast in bad weather and ice no matter what your car is. I would get the RX7 if its the FC but the FD is kinda dumb to me. But that's just me if ya want a FD then get the FD. Who cares what idiots say they just say not to get it because they didn't get the car they wanted at first. So if you have a license you should have no problem driving in any kind of condition or with any kind of car if your not too dumb about it and try doing 100 in the rain and then turning a corner without braking. AT LEAST BRAKE!!

EDIT: As for stick shift driving it's just as easy as learning to drive the first time just different. It took me no time at all to learn it but then I didn't drive it at all for a year and forgot what I did and then learned it again when I started the car but I gotta admit if ya don't drive stick daily or are too used to automatic it does get annoying to constantly be on pedals and shift the gears etc etc. So until it's second nature at least to me, it's pretty annoying and gets on your nerves at times.

Posted by: SircatmaN Dec 11 2004, 09:05 PM

Was the car you drove a Turbo? Because I duno about you guys but once I hit boost on a wet road then I loose all traction and start snakeing.
I wasn't really saying don't buy the car as such, I was just trying to say that a powerful RWD turbo car is a bit risky in the wet and stuff when your learning, In the rain I could absolutly hammer my old FWD Nissan Exa and I would rarely ever loose traction but the S13 loves whipping the tail out. Then again it is a drift pig haha.

But yeh by all means get the car, they are awesome cars! Just don't thrash it in the wet lol.

Also I hate drivign Autos, they are kinda boring, my left foot always gets stiff and stuff. I love having control over my car

Posted by: Mike Jan 7 2005, 02:50 PM

hmm, glacial response time here, but yeh, ive got back from uni, and not only on the car i drive, all my mates cars (ranging from beat up fiesta to riced up civics) and every car my dad has driven, none need the clutch depressed to start the car as long as your in neutral, if you tried in first you'd just stall, so yeah common sense tells you to use the clutch, but as far as your clutch sensor thingymabob sideways, ive never heard of it and neither has anyone i can find here in merry old england

Posted by: Cubits Feb 19 2005, 10:42 AM

Having the clutch in to start a car is a relatively recent "idiot proofing" measure. I think it's also much bigger in the american market than elsewhere, but it is leaking out, touted as a safety feature (oh, safety feature, i need that!). The only car i've driven with that "feature" was a kia rio.

It popped up at about the same time american cars started chiming at you everytime you did... anything. Got the door open with the keys in? BING BING BING... Got the ignition turned one notch to listen to the radio? BING BING BING... That gets boring fast. The ford explorer was the first car i experienced that in, but newer cars like the focus have a few noises. Aston martin have also started putting the damned things in, probably to aid sales in the states.

Shifting gears has never got on my nerves. Maybe because i've been blessed with "fun" gearboxes over the years. But you can do a lot of driving in a taller gear in most cars, unless they're asthmatic little buggers. My car spends most of its time in fourth, and i run it as low as 1500rpm and it pulls cleanly.

I do hate auto's though. I can't stand the feeling of the engine resisting the brakes until the torque converter lets go. It also bugs the hell out of me when they jump around gears in corners. Coasting down hills also puts low friction stress on the brakes (which glazes the pads unless you have slotted discs... which most auto's don't). In a manual you can just use the engine braking on hills.

Posted by: CrypticApathy Feb 21 2005, 08:35 PM

if you have trouble controling a car when a turbo kicks in you dont need to be driving. Its not that big of a diffrence of driving. all you do is get a little bit of a push but not enough to make you fishtail unless your on ice or something.

Posted by: sideways Feb 21 2005, 09:55 PM

Depends on the turbo, some times you get more then a little "push" depending on the car

Posted by: Batmanbeyon Feb 22 2005, 12:51 AM

Rx7's are good cars to start with you learn rwd control thanks to the 50/50 balance the car is already more responsive to the driver then most cars the manual is not a problem just practice when i got my FC i was a bit scared but after a while i don't see my self driving another car.

Posted by: Firthy-EJ9 Feb 22 2005, 06:43 AM

Sideways, u don't need the clutch in to start the 86!!

Posted by: Black Tigers Mar 14 2005, 04:55 PM

sorry for being stupid but just to make it clear is it just...press clutch shift then release?? do u have to let go of gas when up shifting??corrent me if im wrong please

Posted by: sideways Mar 14 2005, 05:25 PM

Yes u do, otherwise ud over rev ur engine.

Posted by: Gold_Ultima Mar 30 2005, 01:15 AM

I have been driving auto up until today and I have discovered that it is really quite easy to drive manual. 15 minutes and I was not longer slipping the clutch at all, but I still had to conciously think about it. The most difficult part seemed to be the release of the clutch rather than any other part of it. (being as that is when the clutch makes contact with the engine.) The only part that really takes a while to pick up perfectly is getting going actually. Once moving it's a lot easier to make the clutch meet at the right speed.
Once you get the hang of it, it's way funner than an automatic. I definetly must get one rather than my crummy truck.....

Posted by: Batmanbeyon Mar 30 2005, 02:56 AM

when you start to learn down shifting it gets a bit harder.

Posted by: SircatmaN Apr 18 2005, 10:35 PM

QUOTE (CrypticApathy @ Feb 21 2005, 08:35 PM)

I said in the wet, and I can control the car fine... all I was trying to say was if he never driven manual before then maybe an FC isnt the best first car, Im not saying dont get one just dont hammer the f**k out of it if your not used to it, Ive seen to many amatuers hit trees that way.
Besides my car doesnt give a "little" push rofl.

Posted by: Sweeper May 26 2005, 04:03 AM

Well to help the topic back I will add my little chit chat on shifting and manual transmission.
I learned my manual gearing before I got a car, as I was living on a farm I drove a tractor.
Where you not only had to consider shifting between 1st to 4th but also High and Low.
Starting in Low 1 was fairly easy but since I often had to travel somewhere the Low series wasn't the best way to get there (Snail speed deluxe) So I had to use High gears.
Of course I stalled it a lot before I got it right but in the end I got it.
And then the shifting speed increased and now I can start and stop it without even thinking.
Though the brakes, well moving over to car it was a bit of a problem.
As when I wanted to stop the tractor I nearly had to put all my weight on the brakes and it slowed down very slowly.
However, I learned the difference between car and tractor the hard way...

I SLAMMED THE BRAKES in the car in the same manner I did on the tractor, teeth in the dashboard in other words

I have had embarrasing situations when I learned driving a car too, stalling it 6 times in a row... Mid intersection.
Why? Because I panicked, a 4 way intersection and I forgot all about being smooth on the clutch.
7th try I got out of there, with wheelspin as I went WOT (Wide Open Throttle) on the poor VW Caddy (Imagine a VW Golf in pickup truck version)

Now when I am done studying I hope to get a FD3S (Mazda RX-7 for the unknowing person) though not the same as Keisuke, I am aiming at getting a 1998 Type RS imported from Japan, in Innocent Blue Mica color.
But I will use the car as a weekend driver mainly for the fun of it as it drinks fuel and requires a lot of maintance. (Which I have accepted)
So currently I am doing my "homework" by reading up as much as I can on this rotary powerplant and its familiar problems.
The primary source is: www.rx7club.com which has a large userbase and tons of posts to read on rotary engines and RX-7's.

Back to shifting again.
I was probably more fortunate than most of you as I had my stepfather teaching me.
However, the worst thing is starting in a hill.
Downhill is easy as you can use brake but uphill is worse as you roll backwards.
It requires balancing with ebrake, brakes, throttle and clutch.
I have done it sometimes but I don't like it, the first time I tried I went a bit too hard on the gas pedal.
So I wheelspinned on the dirt surface I was starting on.

Posted by: Mike May 26 2005, 04:23 AM

Technically to do a hill start you dont need to go anywhere near your foot brake, especially if your driving the English licecne exam. The method they expect is for you to be stopped on the hill with the hand brake on (e-brake i guess you lot call it) Then bring your clutch to the bite while having a steady number of revs, slightly more than on the flat to get it going smoother, and when the car makes the little 'clunk' and the bonnet sits up, you can relase the hand brake and you'll sail smoothly away.

Thats the proper way to do it lol, there are other ways that are quicker etc but thats the proper way on the british licence test

Posted by: snuggles May 27 2005, 04:36 PM

I remember doing that when I was learning how to drive. Man, if my dad saw me doing that he would have beat me down. He is one of those that believes that if you dont know how to drive stick, you dont know how to drive at all.

Posted by: sideways May 27 2005, 05:11 PM

<--- Still doesnt have a working hand/e-brake.

Posted by: Blazing Bullet May 27 2005, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 27 2005, 06:11 PM)

<--- Still doesnt have a working hand/e-brake.

hahaha so i guess you avoid hills?

Posted by: sideways May 27 2005, 06:17 PM

Not at all why would i

Theres this pedal in the middle called a brake

Posted by: Nomake Wan May 27 2005, 06:42 PM

While driving my dad's Capri I had to pick up a paper for him once, which meant parking on one hell of an incline. It was good training... pulled it off, used the foot brake. Not too bad. It still freaks me out at intersections on hills, though... stopped at a red light with cars behind me, that is. I'm still not too terribly confident. (that said, it's hard to be in a Capri... poorly made vehicle, though it does have a good engine and transmission)

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 27 2005, 06:45 PM

My friend who owns a Supra taught me how to do the handbrake thing - but im afraid im doing harm to my AWD by doing it in that method...

It's so hard for me to control the revs on my car since i received an ankle injury a long time ago in which i severely pulled a ligament. I could do it before no prob... now it's so hard.

Posted by: Nomake Wan May 27 2005, 06:56 PM

My dad has an ankle injury too now... and what with our car count reduced to two (mine and the Capri), he can only drive a manual car... which sucks for him.

But to get back on topic, couldn't you wire the 2WD fuse into the "BRAKE" indicator light to prevent rear differential damage when using the e-brake method? The light comes on way before the e-brake even bites, after all.

Posted by: sideways May 27 2005, 06:58 PM

Or be a man and just use the brake, and learn u some decent throttle and clutch control!

Posted by: Möbius May 27 2005, 11:37 PM

QUOTE (snuggles @ May 27 2005, 08:36 PM)

I like those people...

Posted by: Blazing Bullet May 28 2005, 11:40 AM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 27 2005, 07:58 PM)

Or be a man and just use the brake, and learn u some decent throttle and clutch control!

haha

or YOU just fork out some money and get a real handbrake

Posted by: sideways May 28 2005, 11:45 AM

Yaa, but technique is free.

Posted by: Möbius May 28 2005, 05:16 PM

Actually...

I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with you or not...

But technique is expensive... as you have to earn it...

Posted by: snuggles May 28 2005, 06:11 PM

But that technique can go a long way.I remember going to the country of Guatemala and driving some trucks that you HAD hold to the gears in, or else they'll slip out and go to neutral.Even driving my clutch (MKIII supra)is a pain and many peolpe have problems at first.

Posted by: vhsfootball_82 May 28 2005, 08:37 PM

QUOTE (Sweeper @ May 26 2005, 04:03 AM)

Finally,, i found someone who knows how to drive a tractor lol.........i still dont get it since u have to move one of the sticks then move the other to go on low first then the high first then to low 2nd etc............like there are some big delivery trucks that have like what 10 gears......well 5 including the low and high.....

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 28 2005, 11:33 PM

Nomake - im not a tech guy, but i think to do that, i'd have to blow the fuse or yank it out by hand.

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 08:02 AM

Why would using the handbrake make your AWD car get messed up?

No one is telling you to floor the thing when you have the handbrake on. The handbrake is just to buy you the time needed for you to get your engine going before rolling back and hitting the poor sod who decided to go right up your back end.

I mean depending on the hill, most times I don't really have to hit the gas to prevent myself from rolling back anyways. Just let the clutch out to the grip point and it for most part has enough power to keep me up.

Frost

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 08:08 AM

Yah, your right - it's just there to hold the car in place for me while i take the time to get the clutch to bite... At which point i bring it down immediately.

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 08:11 AM

You don't bring it down immediately f00! That's why you'll damage the tranny. Go nice and steady albeit a bit more gas than normal since you're going uphill.

Frost

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 08:14 AM

F00 eh?

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 29 2005, 08:21 AM

From reading this entire thread... I have one thing to say.

Whaaaaaaaaa....?

First things first.
Using your handbrake to hold you in place while you find your revs and set your clutch is fine. It allows you to focus on the throttle and clutch, and not have to worry about heel/toe.
Heel/toe is meant for downshifting smoothly and reducing clutch and transmission wear. While braking, you press in the clutch, blip the throttle, move the shifter, and let off the clutch. It'll take practice, but it's fun. To me it's now a habit.
Regular launching is an interesting process. With a foot on the clutch and a foot on the brake, slowly release the clutch until it begins to load up, then release the brake and feather the gas as you remove the rest of the pressure from the clutch. Upshifting once you're moving is too easy to document. Once you get the hang of it, you should be able to launch smoothly without breaking idle until the clutch is fully engaged.
Knowing when to shift in any situation is a matter of knowing your engine. Don't bother reading the tach. Engine starting to feel like it's getting towards the powerband? Upshift. Did it bog? If so, you upshifted early. If not, you probably upshifted late. Learn the way your engine feels/sounds under different conditions. Almost all of this is car dependent.
As for whether a car will start with the clutch in or not, well... it depends on the car. Every manual car will start with the clutch in. Some will start with it out. Most of these cars are carburetor equipped. Virtually all carburetor equipped cars will start with the clutch out, and a handful of EFI cars will, most of which are older than '87 or so.

Did I miss anything?

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 08:24 AM

QUOTE (TruthInRotation @ May 29 2005, 08:21 AM)

How does one read a tach... when one does NOT have a tach!

Ah-ha!

I've never had a tach in all the stick shifters I've touched. They were gonna charge us more for the tach panel! ^%$$#!!! I just listen to the engine and feel the gas pedal.

Sound like it's a diesel? Underpowered! Sound like a F1 wannabe? SHIFT UP!

Simple enough for me.

Frost

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 29 2005, 08:31 AM

QUOTE (Frost @ May 29 2005, 08:24 AM)

...I think I just said not to read the tach, and drive it by feel. I don't know. Maybe I can't read.

Or write.

EDIT:
Yup. Just checked it. I said, "Don't bother reading the tach."

Posted by: sabishii May 29 2005, 08:38 AM

Maybe he was, I don't know, agreeing with you.

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 08:54 AM

I did read the post. I know what you said. Read what I said. I can't even 'cheat' even if I wanted to. Sarcasm doesn't cut through internet well I suppose.

Frost

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 11:20 AM

Just drove to scarb to get my brakes looked at by a family mechanic - finally got the impreza into 5th gear and taken 100 and beyond too

. LOL.

my dad says my shifting is smoother now.

There were a couple of hills there, but i really didnt have to use the handbrake... - well, i did once - but it was because some Civic wanted a closer look at my 2.5RS badge.

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 29 2005, 11:38 AM

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ May 29 2005, 11:20 AM)

Just drove to scarb to get my brakes looked at by a family mechanic - finally got the impreza into 5th gear and taken 100 and beyond too

You know you usually put off this image of a person who has alot of experience and/or knowledge and ought to be respected.

But you sound like a 16 year old kid who just got his license now.

Interesting how that works.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 11:56 AM

LOL. It's not its not interesting. Your ignorance of me is.

I've been driving my dad's car for a long time now (its an auto). This impreza is my first car - and i just adore it - can you blame a guy for being a little excited about a car that he's searched for and worked for 3 years?

BTW, im 20 (so im still relatively young) - How old are you?

Oh, and btw i dont know about you - but i got my licence when i was 17 and i still dont have a driving offense - im guessing that should count towards something.

Posted by: Möbius May 29 2005, 12:14 PM

First this :

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON)

...finally got the impreza into 5th gear and taken 100 and beyond too

Then this :

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ May 29 2005, 03:56 PM)

Oh, and btw i dont know about you - but i got my licence when i was 17 and i still dont have a driving offense - im guessing that should count towards something.

You mean you haven't got caught yet, as you just admitted to speeding...

BTW, there's a lot of people who have been driving for a much longer time then you... and still are offence free.

Yours truly included.

Doesn't count towards anything really.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 12:18 PM

hmm.. i should have been more clear when is said "Beyond" - meaning just a tad bit over (at which point i realize it and slow down).

Im not one to speed or race.

Good to hear you havent received any offenses ever either Apex.

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 29 2005, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ May 29 2005, 11:56 AM)

Don't get me wrong, I'm just pointing out my observations. I'm not trying to insult you. The way you described your "progress" with your shifting and such sounded like a 16 year old who had just gotten his license.
No, I don't blame you for being excited about your Subaru. I was just as excited when I took delivery of my FC.

I got my license when I was 16, and I've had three speeding tickets since then, and I'm 19 now. The speeding tickets were in my AE86, ironically, and it's speedo cable was snapped, so I didn't know how fast I was going on an empty stretch of highway. All three tickets were on the same highway in the same summer.

Regardless, I'm not trying to dog you. Like I said, normally you have a respectable aura about you, it was just an interesting turn of events to read that post. Then again, what kind of person welcomes someone to a forum by saying "Your (not you're

) going down"?

Well... let's not start a flame war about it.

Posted by: Möbius May 29 2005, 12:22 PM

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ May 29 2005, 04:18 PM)

hmm.. i should have been more clear when is said "Beyond" - meaning just a tad bit over (at which point i realize it and slow down).

Im not one to speed or race.

I sure hope you stayed in the rightmost lane for the entire trip...

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 12:24 PM

LOL, alright.

BTW, the "your going down" thing - didnt i include a smiley in that? LOL. Sarcasm and the internet dont mix well.

Apex: Yah, your about correct there.

Posted by: sideways May 29 2005, 12:51 PM

Now now children, Is Sideways gonna have to choke a B*tch? Take it to the pms or something if u must continue

. One small comment, and i apologize for this Demon, i can easily see rotations point

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 02:00 PM

I look at it this way... driving is like sex. People who haven't had it are typically the ones who brag or rant about it. Those who have and have it good the sly ones who just give a wink and say nothing more.

I shall leave it at that. Anyways, back to the thread's main point. Stick shift is fun and all but the amount I drive everyday on the worst stretches of highway Canada has to offer drives me nuts. I think I'm contemplating on purchasing an auto. Going between 1, 2, 3 and back again is giving my legs cramps and to be honest, I cheat a little and not all the shifts are smooth (who gives a flying f*ck when you're bumper to bumper anyways).

The dark side is calling... save me Yoda!

Frost

Posted by: sideways May 29 2005, 04:37 PM

Training you need, avoid the parth to the dark side you must.

Posted by: Frost May 29 2005, 04:48 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 29 2005, 04:37 PM)

Training you need, avoid the parth to the dark side you must.

Seriously... I travel a lot one way to work. Prolly the equivalent to what people do in 2 or 3 days or even 4 days. An auto will prolly be the best idea...

Dammit... I will prolly have to buy new. An 2nd hander won't be able to take the beatings.

Gah. My plans get shot... again.

Frost

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 29 2005, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ May 29 2005, 04:48 PM)

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 29 2005, 04:37 PM)

Training you need, avoid the parth to the dark side you must.

Unless the car has a lockup torque converter, you're actually better off with a stick. I drive a stick every day and every where I go... You get used to it.

Posted by: Möbius May 29 2005, 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ May 29 2005, 08:48 PM)

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 29 2005, 04:37 PM)

Training you need, avoid the parth to the dark side you must.

If you buy new, you hurt the resale value with the high mileage...

Posted by: Nomake Wan May 29 2005, 07:38 PM

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ May 29 2005, 03:33 AM)

Nomake - im not a tech guy, but i think to do that, i'd have to blow the fuse or yank it out by hand.

Well, you'd have to pull the fuse to do it, yeah... you just wire a voltage switch into the BRAKE light circuit that goes through the 2WD fuse holder. Thus, when the BRAKE light comes on, it acts as if the fuse was pulled and the car goes into FWD mode. BRAKE light goes out and it's back to 4WD. Some people have done it to Legacys before, it's where I heard the idea from. I've never tried it seeing as I can't put a fuse in to make my car AWD. XP

What does a lockup torque converter have to do with it? I've got one, and all it really does is increase gas mileage when driving at constant speed, like with the cruise control on a freeway. Removes parasitic loss from the fluid coupling.

I don't think it has anything to do with the "beatings" Frost was referring to. At least, I didn't catch a reference to gas mileage anywheres.

And yes, everyone, sarcasm does not come out well on the internet unless you use the italics tag and lots of smilies. XD

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 08:21 PM

LOL, i like frost's driving/sex analogy.

Nomake - wouldnt doing that increase the wear on the centre diff? It'd be constantly switching from FWD to AWD?

LOL, im not going to tamper with the AWD. Continuous is fine with me.

Posted by: Nomake Wan May 29 2005, 10:15 PM

I didn't say it was particularly good for the differential, nor was it particularly practical in my opinion... but it's one way to save the rear diff if you're paranoid about its lifespan.

And it wouldn't be constantly switching between FWD and AWD... unless of course you're a person who is absolutely addicted to yanking the handbrake. ^-^; I think you misunderstood the "BRAKE" light term I used. I didn't mean the tail lights. I meant the "BRAKE" light on your instrument panel that's linked to the handbrake. It turns on before the handbrake takes effect, so that's why the dude wired his 2WD circuit into it.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R May 29 2005, 10:21 PM

oh... silly me. LOL.

Well, i'll look into that then.

Posted by: Frost May 30 2005, 01:41 AM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ May 29 2005, 07:18 PM)

QUOTE (Frost @ May 29 2005, 08:48 PM)

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ May 29 2005, 04:37 PM)

Training you need, avoid the parth to the dark side you must.

If you buy new, you hurt the resale value with the high mileage...

I know... which is why it sucks. Unless I want to move out and live near work which will cost even more. Not a winning proposition for me either. Besides, I don't plan on reselling if I buy new. I'll just relegate it to fun-car status.

Frost

Posted by: Jabberwocky May 30 2005, 07:39 AM

It really depends on the car. A camaro for example has a heavy clutch pedal and long throw shifter. It wears you out as you drive it. A miata on the other hand, barely takes any effort to shift, the clutch pedal is light and the throws are extremely short.

Posted by: Frost May 30 2005, 08:33 AM

The Corolla I drive has a relatively deep clutch pedal. The grip point is about 15% the way out so it's quite a lot of leg work which is what is prompting me to get an auto unless the car I want to buy has a short clutch pedal depth.

Frost

Posted by: Jabberwocky May 30 2005, 03:56 PM

Get a miata. I am in the process of aquiring a early model one. I should have it by next week. That thing was an absolute pleasure to test drive. I'm going to use it as my daily beater. The engine is suppose to be extremely over engineered. The 1.6 is basically the same as the turbocharged version with some small differences. The 1.8 is mechanically very similar and shares all of the over-engineered qualities. One of the most rev-happy easy-to-drive cars I've ever been in. Screw practicality. Driving one made me realize just how good it is.

Posted by: But she looked 18 officer May 30 2005, 03:59 PM

jabber is getting a miata! you are such a girly boy!

lol jk.

Posted by: Frost May 30 2005, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Jabberwocky @ May 30 2005, 03:56 PM)

Get a miata. I am in the process of aquiring a early model on. I should have it by next week. That thing was an absolute pleasure to test drive. I'm going to use it as my daily beater. The engine is suppose to be extremely over engineered. The 1.6 is basically the same as the turbocharged version with some small differences. The 1.8 is mechanically very similar and shares all of the over-engineered qualities. One of the most rev-happy easy-to-drive cars I've ever been in. Screw practicality. Driving one made me realize just how good it is.

I've always known Miata's were good drivers... except that I go along heavy industrial routes and if a truck were to nudge me, I don't think they could ID me using dental records.

Though I am extremely tempted to get one since insurance is pretty much dirt cheap.

Frost

Posted by: Jabberwocky May 30 2005, 04:43 PM

Yes I'm getting a chick car =P. I may still keep the camaro though.

I think if a truck were to nudge you. You'd be screwed in any car. With that said, a miata has very little crumble zone in the front and the doors are so light that I doubt they would stop anything. I lament cars getting heavier lately but they are getting safe in the process. That's the tradeoff. Most North American vehicles are built with the strictest crash standards in the world.

Okay enough with derailing the subject. I like stick shifts. Much more responsive throttle than most mushy time delayed automatics.

Posted by: Frost May 30 2005, 04:52 PM

Amen to that.

Drop the hammer on any stick shifter whether it be a 30hp car or a 300hp car and you'll get instant response. I remember our old Justy... sit it full with 5 people and boy does 1st gear feel loooong but it still went if you slammed it.

Frost

Posted by: Nomake Wan May 30 2005, 06:10 PM

If the Miata's engine and transmission is anything like the one stuffed into the Mercury Capri, then I wholeheartedly agree with what's been said about it. The thing is awesome when it comes to driving. It doesn't wear me out ot shift it... though I think the clutch is giving out a little. Seems to be biting when the pedal is on the floor sometimes.

Seriously, they need to drop the engine from the Capri into a Miata. Capri has major problems in its design that the Miata doesn't have... but the Capri got a better engine (I've never driven a Miata, so I dunno which has the better tranny. I'm guessing it's the same). My girlfriend's dad drives a Miata, and I'd love to take it for a little spin... but I don't think he'd trust me. ^-^;

Posted by: Jabberwocky May 30 2005, 08:25 PM

Same 1.6 engine between the capri and miata, also used on the 323GTX.

More info on the B6P and B8 engines: http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MX5Engine.html

Not very powerful of a 4 banger on paper. But it was designed for force induction. I just can't get over how communicative the miata is. I got a chance to drive in an "R package." No power windows, no power mirror, no leather, no AC, or anything, plus a manual steering rack that was so communicative. It probably weighed less than 2200 lbs with gas. Can't wait till I get my hands on it so I can autocross it. No doubt it will be slower than my ESP car, but the fun factor is not quantitative.

Stop derailing this thread.

I like manuals because it's cool and the chicks dig that I can drive a stick. Uh...yeah...

Posted by: Legendary Z May 30 2005, 09:32 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Jun 1 2004, 01:04 PM)

Thanks TRD i know what ill be looking for then

well Chucks are a must have for me altho I am thinking baout gettin a pair of pumas Chucks are like durable sucks but i wouldnt advise waring them in med to heavy rain they get wet they stay wet for a while unless you huck em in the dryer

Chucks run from 35 - 50 (U.S. Dollars)depending on if its classics solid color or design

Posted by: Ben May 31 2005, 03:49 AM

mm, i have nikes.

Posted by: TruthInRotation May 31 2005, 08:48 AM

I have an old pair of Pumas and an fairly new pair of Adidas... Sambas.

Posted by: Jabberwocky May 31 2005, 07:16 PM

Shoes dont make you any better of a driver. Cheap autocrosser's trick is to get any old thin sole walking shoe, reach in and pull out the foam insole, it is the foam that dampens alot of the feedback.

Posted by: But she looked 18 officer Jun 1 2005, 10:32 AM

and I thought I was the only one that did that. lol

Although, i didnt do it the cool way. My dog ate the sole out of one of my shoes and I had to even it out. lol

Posted by: Mike Jun 2 2005, 02:45 AM

Well seeing as i vanish and re-surface and miss half the discussion. There is an even easier method of sitting on hills than the one i said (British Licence Test Standard shit) and Sideways' on his brake. Its just a rather unfortunate method for the poorer among us, so if your rich or have rich parents, read on!

The method is entitled, how to destroy a clutch in 5 easy minutes (time exageration i know, but im trying to stop the younger ones on here developing as many bad habits as me!). I.e. as your coming to the stand still on the hill you can just balance your car stationary on your clutch and with the right amount of revs not to stall, piece of piss, just dont cry when your clutch is burnt out to a small piece of nothingness by the time you come to move off! But to be fair i think this method is usefull i always sit on my clutch if im only going to be waiting a minute, and if something happens that turns it into a long queue you can always whack on teh old hand brake (if you ahve one sideways

)

Posted by: Mike Jun 2 2005, 02:48 AM

QUOTE (Jabberwocky @ May 31 2005, 07:16 PM)

Shoes dont make you a better driver, but if there too big or somet like clown shoes, im pretty sure they'd make you a worse driver

An old beat up pair of converse do me just fine, there pretty much worn through lol. Out of choice they'd be new, but thats money i dont have at the moment lol

Posted by: Jabberwocky Jun 2 2005, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (But she looked 18 officer @ Jun 1 2005, 10:32 AM)

and I thought I was the only one that did that. lol

Although, i didnt do it the cool way. My dog ate the sole out of one of my shoes and I had to even it out. lol

As far as I can tell, I am the only one in my region and th next 2 neighboring regions that do that. So I got dibs on that trick.

Posted by: zAE86BoYz Jan 20 2006, 09:43 PM

someone should put a video teaching stick shift

Posted by: Tessou Jan 20 2006, 10:21 PM

A video wouldn't do jack other than teaching you that you gotta put your foot on the clutch and work the shifter to make the car move. Just watching a video cannot teach you when the clutch will bite.

Stick can only be learned from experience. Learn it in a crappy older car and/or something with a forgiving clutch. I learned it on a 1987 Mazda B2200, which has an insanely forgiving clutch (though I did grind and stall quite a few times before catching onto the little devil).

Best shoes I've used for driving are by far Onitsuka Tigers. The Mexico 66 style has a very thin sole and offers great feedback, while the Tai Chi variant is even thinner but more expensive.

Posted by: hellbent Jan 20 2006, 10:57 PM

Well said Tessou. Stick-shift can only be learned from experiance. not from videos.

and about the shoes. I just bought a pair of Fila Ferrari compitition shoes last year, my god, what a difference between my regulars and these ones.
I used them at the AutoX and indeed felt much better using them.
Pricy, yes. But meh. sometimes I spoil myself.

Posted by: But she looked 18 officer Jan 20 2006, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Jabberwocky @ Jun 2 2005, 07:29 PM)

As far as I can tell, I am the only one in my region and th next 2 neighboring regions that do that. So I got dibs on that trick.

well then let it be known that this day foward perposely wearing a pair of shoes with out their souls is now known as JabberWalking.

Posted by: hellbent Jan 20 2006, 11:02 PM

^^Lol

Jabberwalking. I like that.

http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/product_detail.aspx?cat_id=332&prod_id=6101
these will be most likely my next shoes.

Posted by: SilviaSlider Jan 24 2006, 06:26 PM

How do you slow down and fully stop?
when slowing down do you shift down and brake or brake then shift down
also on a left turn with the green light on and your going 35-40mph what do you do?
one more question.
if your going 30-45mph, how do you make a complete stop.

I just wanna know how to slow down and stop

Posted by: Jabberwocky Jan 24 2006, 06:34 PM

Some people downshift, but I think that is unecessary in daily driving. I just pop it in neutral, and hit the brakes .When I need to go again, I tap the gas, then put it back into gear.

Basically it is an extended double clutch.

Posted by: evo4life Jan 24 2006, 06:40 PM

QUOTE (SilviaSlider @ Today at 6:26 PM)

1)How do you slow down and fully stop?
2)when slowing down do you shift down and brake or brake then shift down
3)also on a left turn with the green light on and your going 35-40mph what do you do?
one more question.
4)if your going 30-45mph, how do you make a complete stop.

I just wanna know how to slow down and stop

simple. questions 1,2,4 are practically the same. technically you can chose whether to put the stick in neutral then brake or first break and then put the stick in neutral. I just brake first and slow down to around 1rpm and THEN move the stick to neutral (after pressing the clutch of course).

Downshifting excessively to stop sooner may wear out your clutch sooner, at least thats what ive heard.

when making a turn you gotta judge how fast you are going. You need to slow down to a moderate speed if you are going too fast. If that requires you to downshift because of low rpms then so be it.

hope this helps and other MANUAL drivers can add/correct me

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jan 24 2006, 06:46 PM

I keep the car in whatever gear it is (for example, lets say 5th gear), start pressing the brakes, once the revs start going down, i downshift to 4th,revs drop, again to 3rd once, revs drop, again to 2nd, revs drop, (car is doing less than 20km/h now) and i slip it into 1st.

It's become a habit for me to always do this. Apparently, it's safer too.

Posted by: sideways Jan 24 2006, 07:19 PM

I dont know if id call it safer for your general driver, its splitting their attention between braking, clutch, steering, and whats going on around them.

SilviaSlider your question has been answered pretty much, Long story short to come to a stop (and not stall the car), you must do 1 of 2 things. 1st like Jabber said, just go into neutral (space in the middle of all the gears), OR hold the clutch pedal down (disconnects the engine from the transmision) and hold it down until you want to go forward again.

As for the left turn thing, you start braking until youre at a safe speed to turn, what you do from there is up to you depending on how you like to drive. You can either just stay in the gear, and accelerate slowly once you straighten out, or you can downshift while youre braking, or downshift once you straight out.

As for your question on when you downshift, you usually wan to slow your speed down first, THEN Downshift. if you dont slow down first, your revs will obviously rise.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jan 24 2006, 07:50 PM

of course, when i first started driving manual i didnt get near that form of slowing down. But now it's second nature to me. I do it without thinking. Haha, the first few weeks with my second impreza i was forced to engine brake while using whatever was left of the old brake pads - had'm replaced later.

Posted by: SilviaSlider Jan 24 2006, 10:55 PM

Thanks guys
Im going to try this out tommorow, hope I dont stall tomorrow

Posted by: kev.skyline Jan 25 2006, 04:51 AM

Just a little thing thats annoying me, someone said earlier that 2-4000rpm is a good range to take off in, but if you are doing that every day your clutch must be in shite, when i first started to drive years ago i held the revs at 3000 and i could smell the clutch burning, you only need to press the accelerator when your taking off on an uphill slope.
when its flat or downhill all you have to do is hold the clutch at the biting point and then let down the handbrake, the car will start to move, then as it gains a bit of momentum you can take your foot all the way off the clutch and accelerate away.
/rant

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jan 25 2006, 05:16 AM

3/4000rpm? I think that's pretty high - that's like your launching the car.

Oh, btw, something interesting about stick shift which i learned just a month ago - i was watching peter solberg doing stunts in his WRC car... Here's the vid. He powerslides the car all over the lot... and then he steps out of the car while it rolls on its own... BTW, the car is not in neutral.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6290751424527044142&q=solberg

Posted by: Cubits Jan 25 2006, 06:00 AM

Most cars will roll along at idle in the first few gears, but i suspect his car might have a computer controlled clutch to go with that sequential gearbox (in that year a few drivers were trialling completely automatic gearboxes).

You can start a car moving without touching the throttle if you're gentle with the clutch (button clutch users excepted). The normal way i launch is to feed power as i release the clutch, so it launches at idle without raising the revs. You only need to release the clutch from high revs when in a severe hurry.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jan 25 2006, 06:20 AM

Yah. I believe the term for that is feathering the clutch? It's a great way to teach beginners how to work the clutch without confusing them about balancing the clutch to the throttle.

Posted by: SilviaSlider Jan 31 2006, 04:47 PM

QUOTE

Jabberwocky
Some people downshift, but I think that is unecessary in daily driving. I just pop it in neutral, and hit the brakes .When I need to go again, I tap the gas, then put it back into gear.

Basically it is an extended double clutch.

Do you hold on to clutch while braking or let go clutch and then brake

Posted by: Cubits Jan 31 2006, 05:04 PM

If it's in neutral, there's no point in stepping on the clutch...

Posted by: sideways Jan 31 2006, 06:16 PM

QUOTE (kev.skyline @ Jan 25 2006, 05:51 AM)

1500-2000 is about where i start. It depends a lot on the car and more importantly i suppose the weight of the flywheel.

Posted by: eighty_D Feb 1 2006, 10:34 PM

Heres how i taught my girlfriend how to drive in like 15 mins. go to an empty parking lot practice making the car start moving smoothly by only using the clutch(no throttle). once u get that down practice your 1-2 upshift its easy gain a few revs in first 2000 maybe throttle off clutch in(hold), shift ,clutch out, throttle on, it will prob be a little rough till u can starrt working the clutch and gas together for smoother shifting. than go out on some side roads and practice feathering the throttle and clutch together to take off efficiantly(listen+feel the motor will tell u what it wants).and when u are coming to a stop just clutch in put the shifter in neutral release clutch and apply brakes(you can start downshifting once u learn ur shiftpoints) remember take ur foot off the clutch and place it to the side when ur not using it to prevent uneccisary clutch wear(although it may seem ur foot is only covering the pedal u could be applying a slight pressure causing the clutch disk to disengauge slightly)and u only hav to slip the clutch in first and reverse all other shifts just use it like a button.

p.s the easiest way to accelerate off an incline is to set the hand brake start adding throttle and releasing the clutch when u feel the clutch start to bite release the handbrake and continue adding throttle while releasing the clutch

p.p.s this post is a general guide for noobs you can develop your own methods with time and practice.

Posted by: sideways Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM

*Still doesnt have a working e-brake*

Posted by: sabishii Feb 2 2006, 03:19 AM

I never use the e-brake for inclines... just be quick with your feet.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Feb 2 2006, 04:28 AM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Today at 5:51 AM)

*Still doesnt have a working e-brake*

i have a working PARKING-brake cable but i dont use it for inclines.

Only n00bs do that. I am teh manual transmission l337.

Posted by: Frost Feb 2 2006, 05:06 AM

Kiss goodbye to any sort of long term life on your clutch then.

Frost

Posted by: Rayp Feb 2 2006, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 5:06 AM)

Kiss goodbye to any sort of long term life on your clutch then.

Frost

I do not use my e-brake either and i don't think i'm damaging anything. I just hold the brakes until i'm ready to go, then do my foot work quickly. It's not that difficult, just need to get the timing right. Why bother with the e-brake when i can do it quickly and efficiently without?

Posted by: h0ss Feb 2 2006, 11:59 AM

Talk of RPMs is dangerous... all cars are different. My car puts out enough torque at 1000 rpm to launch in 2nd gear. At 1200, I can launch in 3rd gear. At 3000 rpm, I'd just stall the dang thing.

I drive a turbo diesel VW. It's got torque for DAYS. It's a very rare day I break 2400 rpm going at 70mph.

I think that the difficulty of driving a stick is way overrated. Learn in a big parking lot where you're unafraid to stall, don't drive in a metropolitan area on your first day out, and you'll be fine.

(My first car? It was a toyota corolla, funny enough. Probably an 85, not an 86. It's long enough ago that I have no clue.)

Posted by: CrypticApathy Feb 2 2006, 12:23 PM

what he said. Driving stick is easy. The hardest part is the going part. I learned to start in 2nd gear before i did in first. Id stall out everytime in first but in 2nd gear id get it majority of the time.

Posted by: SLiK Feb 2 2006, 12:36 PM

It may be just me, but wouldn't it be better to just post a complete MT guide for all the noobs out there [incl. me]?

Posted by: psychoazn Feb 2 2006, 07:28 PM

technically speaking, the e-brake technique is the 'proper' way to start off going uphill.

some driving tests require you to demonstrate use of the technique, while others require you to be able to start on a hill without the use of the technique.

go figure =\

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Feb 2 2006, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 9:06 AM)

Kiss goodbye to any sort of long term life on your clutch then.

Frost

it'l be an excuse for new heavy duty clutch.

Besides, i dont let the clutch hold the car for me when im stopped on an uphill. I use the BRAKES - and im quick enough that the car doesnt roll back when the light turns green and it's time to go.

That is how i am the l337. PH34r2!!!

I've only been driving stick full time since last may and damn im good.

Posted by: Taku_E70 Feb 3 2006, 01:02 AM

Woah wb 2.5RS Demon.

Its just best to break rather then destroy your clutch. Although yes again thats a huge good reason to get a better one

Posted by: Horiyoshi Feb 3 2006, 03:31 AM

I drove my car when I got it for about 10 minutes on an empty street with a hill here and there and since then ( about a week ago), I can drive it in traffic like I've been doing it for years. About inclines, my friend gave me some advice that works well. You let go of the clutch to the point where your clutch starts engaging (you'll be able to tell due to the slight drop in RPMs) and push it in a tad from that. Then let go of the brake and move the foot over to the accelerator. It keeps the car from rolling back as far since you've already moved the clutch pedal that far. By the way, after you find that point just before the clutch engages a bit, no damage should be happening.

Posted by: Frost Feb 3 2006, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Rayp @ Yesterday at 10:15 AM)

The fact that you are relying on quick footwork to get yourself going means the chance of you causing the clutch to slip or rub unnecessarily goes way up.

I always thought driving a stick shift properly for accuracy and longevity did not involve speed but rather just precision and knowledge of the vehicle. Performance driving on the other hand, relies on speed, precision and knowledge of the car but at the cost of longevity.

Depending on the incline, I don't always use the E-brake. It's always better safe than sorry, trying to explain to your insurance company how you wound up hitting the guy behind you is just plain silly and embarassing.

And for those that rely on the tach for inclines: I have no tach in any of the stick shift cars I've driven until lately.

Frost

Posted by: sideways Feb 3 2006, 02:17 PM

If youre doing it properly theres really no difference in wear from using the hand brake or the regular brakes when youre on a hill. The only real difference is the time it takes to move your foot from the brakes to the throttle, compared to being able to put the hand brake down and already be on the gas. This only takes a mere fraction of a second at best- The throttle work and clutch work will still be the same either way hand brake or no hand brake.

Posted by: Rayp Feb 3 2006, 10:42 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 1:11 PM)

The fact that you are relying on quick footwork to get yourself going means the chance of you causing the clutch to slip or rub unnecessarily goes way up.

If i was anybody, maybe you would be right. But i'm a seasoned driver and did praticed my shifting to limit unnessessary slipping (as well as limiting stalling the engine). My shifting is quick and precise and it's very rare i ever end up ridding the clutch or give an undesired jolt on the transmission. As far as i can tell, my way of shifting and using the clutch is very gentle on the clutch and drivetrain.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Feb 3 2006, 10:51 PM

I ADMIT... I DO use the handbrake on inclines!!!

... Only when i have morons behind me who feel the need to read my "S U B A R U" badging on my car's trunk and have to be as close as 1-2 inches.

Posted by: Frost Feb 4 2006, 07:50 AM

QUOTE (Rayp @ Yesterday at 10:42 PM)

No offense to you but no one ever admits their driving technique is bad.

But my point here is not to slag anyone. You do what you find is good so long as it doesn't involve rolling into me when I'm behind you

Frost

Posted by: Rayp Feb 4 2006, 10:11 AM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 7:50 AM)

No offense to you but no one ever admits their driving technique is bad.

But does that imply that everyone who think they have a good driving technique don't? What make you think my technique is worst than what what everyone else does? At least i can say for my defense that i have been driving that way for years and i have yet to replace a clutch or a drivetrain (despite running on old, high mileage cars). That must mean something...

Posted by: Frost Feb 4 2006, 10:23 AM

I never implied you were worse than anyone else but rather how do you know it is good other than always second guessing yourself, taking a look at the clutch and then analyzing everything down to the details?

That was my point. Everyone is guilty when they automatically assume they are decent.

Clutches are supposed to last forever if driven right. So technically, you can never prove yourself right, only wrong. But like I said, I'm not here to slag you, so please get off this train of though.

Frost

Posted by: InitialN00b Feb 4 2006, 10:46 AM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 11:50 AM)

Frost

errr u'r wrong

i do all the time, that's why i have a mentor.

the first step to curing the problem is admitting you have the problem

last time i chked there's only one M. Schumacher who's a 7 time WDC. So even if he could f**k up now and then, we all could

hence all of our driving technique is not as great as we think it is.

Posted by: Frost Feb 4 2006, 11:11 AM

Technically, I was wrong to begin with by saying that.

By acknowledging that no one ever admits they are bad, I have acknowledged that perhaps everyone is bad and therefore put myself in a loop.

I know my driving technique could be a hell of a lot better hence my work towards getting up there.

Experience means ass. People think experience = wisdom. How wrong they are.

Frost

Posted by: Rayp Feb 4 2006, 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 11:11 AM)

Experience means ass. People think experience = wisdom. How wrong they are.

That's why years of driving don't mean much... Someone who drive like a grandma for years is unlikely to learn much about driving. One of the best way to learn about driving under any conditions is to be a delivery guy with your own car... You will learn it right or it will cost you dearly.

Ok, i never worked as a delivery guy, but i do drive a lot, everyday and under any conditions, and i do pay for my repairs when i do mistakes...

Posted by: sideways Feb 4 2006, 03:16 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 11:23 AM)

Clutches are supposed to last forever if driven right.

Are you high? Do u mean a long while, or litteraly forever if driven right?

Posted by: Frost Feb 4 2006, 03:21 PM

The funny part is that taxi drivers, who pretty much spend a lifetime driving, should technically be the best drivers but I've yet to meet a taxi driver who has been exceptionally good at driving.

Frost

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Feb 4 2006, 04:44 PM

^ AMEN.

Posted by: Rayp Feb 4 2006, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 3:21 PM)

Of course, if they put no efforts to improve or enjoy driving like maniacs, it doesn't matter how long they drive. But technically speaking, they get plenty of time to learn if they bother to... And i'm sure despite their quirks, they do know a bit about driving cars.

Posted by: SircatmaN Mar 29 2006, 02:57 AM

Dont take this the wrong way but why do people in America find it so hard to drive a manual car? In Australia little kids drive manuals... if you only have your auto license most people will take the piss outta you!

I've been reading through alot of this advice and to be honest its pretty amatuerish driving... use your handbrake on hills or as that other guy said you are just being sloppy and wearing out your clutch (Which is not meant to last forever, its like a brake pad).

The easiest way to drive a manual is to just ease off the clutch untill you feel it bite put a few revs on and ease all the way off the clutch, rev the engine more then just put your foot on the clutch again, change gears and then ease off again.

Once again I'm not having a dig at anyone just asking why not many people drive manuals in America? My mate was over there and his friend offered him a drive in his new Supra which was manual, when he got out of the car everyone was like "WOW! You can drive a stick!!!) and he was liek "Umm... yeh.... cant everyone?".

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Mar 29 2006, 05:35 AM

I actually wonder the same thing (and i live in North America). Why DO we have much more auto-tranny vehicles and less manual ones?

Posted by: robots Mar 29 2006, 07:15 AM

It's a a part of the government colntrol

Eat more, move less

No offense here !

Posted by: SircatmaN Mar 29 2006, 07:22 AM

Dealerships try to pass Autos off over here as something good. Most car ads are like "$30,000 with free air and Free Auto" Yet the resale of the car drops alot and manual (mostly with sports cars) increases

Posted by: Rayp Mar 29 2006, 09:03 AM

A long time ago i got to a dealer and started asking about car prices and such. The vendor tryied to convince me auto was better than stick, that i'll get better acceleration and all by using an automatic...

It's sad, more and more drivers prefer the easy driving, taking all driving aids they can get into their cars (automatic, abs, traction control etc). We just get increasingly moronic drivers that cause more accidents and traffic, that in turn push the governement to pass more traffic laws and ask manufacturers to add even more driving aids and safety features to cars...

That's why i like older cars. You are closer to the machine, you have more control...

Posted by: DALAZ_68 Mar 29 2006, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (2.5RS DEMON @ Feb 3 2006, 10:51 PM)

I ADMIT... I DO use the handbrake on inclines!!!

... Only when i have morons behind me who feel the need to read my "S U B A R U" badging on my car's trunk and have to be as close as 1-2 inches.

thats the only reason i use the e-brake on inclines

there right on my bumper on the incline

and to b hoenst the other time is wen its raining heavily and on an incline

other than that im pretty ok with my foot work

though i do have a tendecy to double foot

is that bad??!! i dont do wut others do which is hover over the brake, i just catch myself doing it sometimes

specially with L.A. drivers man

Posted by: Rudy Mar 29 2006, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Rayp @ Today at 1:03 PM)

^ Now that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Posted by: CrypticApathy Mar 29 2006, 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Rayp @ Today at 9:03 AM)

Actully automatics are faster then manuals. You just have to tune them to shift. Theres no way a human can shift a car faster then a machine. Hence the reason you see alot of drag cars automatics. Or have a 2 speed tranny. Stock form though a manual will win hands down, due to being able to stay in the power band longer and being able to redline, where as a automatic wont let you.

Posted by: SircatmaN Mar 29 2006, 07:27 PM

Manuals are much better suited for track racing/drift etc. (well obviosuly drift haha) because you have 100% more control over your car than you would if its auto.
For drag racing i can see why people use Autos but then again alot of the fastest drag cars use air button changes where they litterally push a pressurized button on there steering wheel and it changes up. That way they can control the revs and when its going to change themselves, yet change gear at the same speed.

Posted by: robots Mar 29 2006, 07:31 PM

Those autos you refer to aren't for lazy joe and don't come stock

It's not a driving aid, u know !

Posted by: Rayp Mar 30 2006, 06:52 AM

QUOTE (CrypticApathy @ Yesterday at 5:00 PM)

Automatic are not just fast, they are consistent. They never fail to shift or mess up (unless broken). That's their biggest advantage, that's why dragster use them because messing up with shifting may cause damage in a high power car...

Posted by: Jabberwocky Mar 30 2006, 07:42 AM

Production car automatics with torque converter aren't faster shifting at all. The biggest drawback is gear float in certain corners, scary and frustrating. Most production autos will also upshift as soon as you are not flooring it, making throttle modulation near impossible. By my internal clock most autos/manumatics take from half to a full second to shift.

Why wont this topic die ?!?

Posted by: Rayp Mar 30 2006, 09:56 PM

QUOTE (Jabberwocky @ Today at 7:42 AM)

Automatics set to overdrive will have an awful shifting and will keep on upshifting to save gas. But once the overdrive is off, the car/truck will perform a lot better (without the floating and annoying upshifting). Hey it worked even in the delivery truck (big diesel box) i was working with...

QUOTE

Why wont this topic die ?!?

We have a constant influx of new drivers who don't know how to use the stick so it will never die

Posted by: Mopar Mar 31 2006, 03:51 AM

Autos cost more to drive and fix and don't last anywhere near as long as a stick car.
Autos are for people the do alot of city stop and go driving or perfer to have their minds on other things while drivng .

Sticks are for people that want perforamce and something the inexpensive to operate.

Posted by: Rayp Mar 31 2006, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Mopar @ Today at 3:51 AM)

Autos cost more to drive and fix and don't last anywhere near as long as a stick car.

Yeah but many shops refuse to fix manual tranny when they break. Or charge obsene fees for it. Manual tranny are better maintenance wise if you can do it yourself. Manual tranny may last longer in the hand of a good driver, but a bad one will destroy it faster than if it was an auto...

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Mar 31 2006, 10:24 AM

just dont be an idiot and drive around your manual transmission vehicle with gear filings floating around inside... Make sure you have the gear oil changed regularly.

As well, make sure you use the manufacturer recommend gear oil. Dont be a moron and put in say... Dexron 3 into a vehicle that's transmission requires GL-5.

Just dont take the risk. Never make an assumption... Especially on a machine.

Posted by: CrypticApathy Mar 31 2006, 11:07 AM

QUOTE (Jabberwocky @ Yesterday at 7:42 AM)

because its stickyed.

Posted by: Mopar Mar 31 2006, 06:34 PM

You really want a test...
Roofing company I used to work for had a Ford tandum axle dump truck with 15 foward speeds on three shift levers....
try driving that around the city with a load on it

1 st lever 1-5th gear
2 nd lever three speed secondary transfer (under drive, direct drive, & over drive)
3 rd lever two speed rear axles

Posted by: FinToy-83 Apr 2 2006, 10:58 AM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Nov 28 2004, 04:15 PM)

Most cars dont start in neutral unless the clutch is in.

that's only for US.. in europe that kind of safety stuff hasn't crossed my path.

Posted by: sideways Apr 2 2006, 11:17 AM

Hello post from 2004

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Apr 2 2006, 02:09 PM

^ Is that true????

WTF?

In Europe you can start a manual tranny car without pressing on the clutch pedal? What kind of transmission is it then? Sequential?

Posted by: InitialN00b Apr 2 2006, 02:58 PM

the clutch is like a switch.

buddy of mine wired it so that you need to press a small button (by small i'm talking almost pinsize small) instead of pressing the clutch to start the car.

i don't exactly know the electronics behind it, but it's been done.

Posted by: SircatmaN Apr 2 2006, 03:33 PM

Dont have to push it in on Jap imports or Australian cars either. Only on some Hyundais and Kias.

Posted by: sideways Apr 2 2006, 04:05 PM

Its common to have a switch connected to the clutch, so if the clutch isnt pushed down- you cant start the car. Its common here in america, though not required/ isnt on every car. Basicly its to stop someone from cranking their car over in gear- causing it to leap forward with each crank.

Posted by: Bubs Apr 2 2006, 04:52 PM

Yay! I can get my learner's permit now!

Although I don't have it yet, I have still been driving my van around with my father. I have it completely down now, and I have not stalled the van a single time. The Vanagon is a really interesting vehicle to drive, just the way it accelerates and the overall ride.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Apr 2 2006, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (InitialN00b @ Today at 5:53 PM)

Wow. Learned something new today.

I always thought it was mechanical...

Posted by: CrypticApathy Apr 2 2006, 06:16 PM

you and me both, although i have heard of having a manul start on the automatic starter thing you can get for cars that will start when you push a button on your keychain. I just didnt know how they did it.

Posted by: Bubs May 8 2006, 06:22 PM

Today, I had to stop at a usual stop light on an incline. What some people don't seem to understand is that standards roll back a bit before they get moving on an incline. Even more with a nervous and not fully skilled driver at the wheel. So, this guy in a Honda minivan stays within a foot of my rear bumper, and continues to slowly creep foward as I wait for the light to change. As the light changes, I freak out, not wanting to bump into the guy, floor the accelerator, as it rolls backwards I dump the clutch and leave some rubber as I barely miss bumping into the guy. What a day!

Posted by: Cubits May 8 2006, 07:09 PM

If you ease off of the clutch before you release the handbrake you never roll back an inch. Although, what is a "standard" exactly? Maybe it's some odd transmission type that i've never encountered...

In an auto it's common to left foot brake at lights instead, allowing you to load up the drivetrain, although torque converters can hold themselves on a hill anyway (within reason).

Really, there should be no excuse for moving backwards during a hill-start.

Posted by: Möbius May 8 2006, 07:19 PM

Where does the handbrake come in?

Posted by: Frost May 8 2006, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Cubits @ Today at 7:04 PM)

It all boils down to the car... I know certain cars can hold on a fairly steep incline with the base engine power (ie: let clutch out sliiiiightly without hitting gas) whereas I have driven other cars that HAVE to have gas on the same incline.

Learn what your car can and can't do and it'll automatically become instinct.

There is no silver bullet.

Except for the Coors Maxim Girls thingie...

Frost

Posted by: Indecisive May 8 2006, 07:45 PM

I really suggest people learn how to properly balance the clutch and gas pedal properly on inclines.

the both ends of my street going out to the main roads ends the same way. stop sign on an incline, one more severe than the other.

I had to learn how to lift the clutch high enough so I don't start rolling backwards, and give it enough gas so the car doesn't start to studder.

This isn't a hard technique to learn. It wears out your clutch, but you're not going to use this technique all the time(actually...I do..I rarely have my foot ont he brake when i'm on a hill, especially on steep hills).

This is also a good thing to learn, cause then you learn the proper starting engagement point of your clutch, and when you do need to do some quick footwork on a hill, you don't roll back more than an inch on the steepest hills.

imo, e-brake is fine if you're not comfortable, but it only really needs to be used when you're a novice and aren't good at finding the proper engagement point.

as far as using an e-brake on a hill with an auto....I've NEVER had any problems rolling back in an auto before...that's crazytalk.

ps: don't do that roll forward and roll backwards thing either if you're going to learn my "technique". The trick is to stay exactly where you are until you need to go and nobody will ever think you drive a manual car and suck at it heh.

what I do is never actually come to a complete stop using the brakes...slow down enough so that momentum is gone by the time you reach the lights, and by then you're already on the clutch/throttle.

Posted by: flohtingPoint May 8 2006, 07:54 PM

Is operation of a manual transmission that difficult to warrant an 11 page thread?

Posted by: sideways May 8 2006, 08:06 PM

& Do you people really ride the clutch to stay in one spot

Posted by: flohtingPoint May 8 2006, 08:08 PM

QUOTE (sidewaysgts @ Today at 8:01 PM)

& Do you people really ride the clutch to stay in one spot

I dont know about you but I plan on getting my moneys worth out of my throw out bearing!

Posted by: Indecisive May 8 2006, 09:56 PM

^^^ ahhaha word.

only on hills alex, for me it's right at the threshold. I say it'll wear out the clutch cause it will, but not a whole lot.

feathering the clutch is a racing technique...drifters and pro racecar drivers do it all the time man...lols

actually, I found that driving while feathering the clutch when it snows helps me actually drive at moderate speeds without losing lots of traction.

Posted by: Zilious May 8 2006, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (mercy @ May 29 2004, 06:32 PM)

Car without stick is like, a canoe without paddle..

I personally would never consider buying car equiped with automatic transmission, driving with stick gears is easy, (can't imagine driving without) and it doesn't need too much effort to learn at first times, using clutch tho maby a bit harder at start.

But I'm confident you'll learn it quickly

Posted by: Indecisive May 8 2006, 10:51 PM

it's your first car, but how long have you been driving?

I am very glad my dad made me drive automatics for a year before he let me touch his 5spd. (also glad he made me buy a POS N/A before he let me get my POS turbo or else I would've died haha)

Learn to drive first...then learn to drive 5spd.

edit: I just realized that guy's post was from 2004....lol way to quote something almost 2 yrs old *shakes fist*

Posted by: Bubs May 9 2006, 02:26 AM

QUOTE (Cubits @ Yesterday at 8:04 PM)

Standard=common US name for manual transmission, or at least in my area.

And, I have never heard of there being "no excuse" for rolling back a few inches on an incline before a standard gets moving, nor have I seen any other standard driver pull up the handbrake while waiting for a light on an incline.

Posted by: Cubits May 9 2006, 03:52 AM

Riding the clutch to hold a car on a hill is stupid. The brakes are much cheaper and wear out a lot slower for holding a car still. You can fry a clutch very quickly using it as a brake, especially in higher performance cars.

Most people outside of the USA are taught to hold the car on a hill with the handbrake. In fact, it's a common part of the license test. I assumed it was common practice for manual driving in the US too...

The theory behind it is this:

On a hill both of your feet can be free to operate the clutch/throttle if you use the handbrake instead of the foot brake to hold the car. This means you don't roll backwards, and don't fry the clutch. It's easier to use a free hand to operate the handbrake than juggle the pedals.

You only load up the clutch momentarily before releasing the handbrake and taking off. It doesn't kill the clutch.

Rolling backwards during a hill-start can be very bad news. It places bigger loads on the drivetrain to reverse the direction of a moving car, which could result in parts breaking. The chance of spinning a wheel increases substancially too, which would be less than desirable, especially in the rain. Basically, you're putting yourself, your car, and people behind you at risk when you roll backwards. Taking care is just responsible driving.

Posted by: Frost May 9 2006, 06:13 AM

I thought it was implied that it was launching a car from a standstill and not balancing the clutch to stay firm on an incline?

Frost

Posted by: Cubits May 9 2006, 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Indecisive @ Yesterday at 7:40 PM)

I rarely have my foot ont he brake when i'm on a hill, especially on steep hills.

Really? Odd way of explaining it then...

But my post was more warning that the less time you spend slipping the clutch, the better. They're generally expensive things to get at in a car, so using the handbrake to prevent a car from rolling backwards and allowing a cleaner launch is only helping people drive more economically, with more mechanical sympathy.

Posted by: Indecisive May 9 2006, 09:13 AM

when I used to drive my dad's 318 around I used the e-brake, but once I switched to the 200sx, I couldn't anymore.

ALL S12's e-brakes are useless even when tightened down lots. It doesn't properly hold the car at all. I've found my car in a bush a few times cause of the weak e-brake. So instead, I just use the clutch.

Had the first 200sx driven like that for 2 yrs w/o needing to change the clutch, in fact, when I sold it, it was still as stiff and effective as when I first got it.

In the new car, the clutch was already slipping anyways so I don't really care haha.

ok...so the tip of the day is...if you drive anything other than an S12 with a shitty e-brake, use the e-brake. Otherwise, use the clutch

Posted by: Baceramus May 12 2006, 11:51 PM

Just thought I'd point out that people who drive standards that dont have a hand brake(such as light trucks or whatever) dont have the option of using it on hills. It's either lightning reaction on the pedals or riding the clutch. Another route would be to load the clutch slightly while still on the brake, release the brake and accelerate. Just takes practice and patience. I drive a '94 Ford Ranger and thats the only option I have for hill starts.

Posted by: Möbius May 13 2006, 09:07 AM

Over here, some examiners fail you if you use handbrake on incline...

Posted by: Cubits May 13 2006, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (Apex Carver @ Today at 9:02 AM)

Over here, some examiners fail you if you use handbrake on incline...

Now that's just retarded! There is absolutely no reason to fail someone for that.

Proof please!

Posted by: Baceramus May 27 2006, 11:12 AM

Sorry to bring this back up but I had a quick question. I've gotten clutchless shifting down pretty well, doing the rev-matching for downshifting, and in other cars I'm able to heel/toe without too many problems. I'm still learning on all of this since I've not given much thought to performance driving or simply saving my clutch/driveline from shock until I joined this forum. Here's the question, would/should I be able to take the vehicle out of gear, rev-match for a downshift, and then put it in the lower gear without the clutch? I don't want to try this on my own and destroy the transmission in my truck since it's my daily driver so I thought I'd put it to your technical minds. In a way it seems possible but a few things jump out; I probably cant put it into gear until i hit the usual power shifting speed thus making this useless, and this will probably wear out the synchronizers very quickly. So yeah, do or dont do, should I just stick to rev-matching and heel/toe or try something like this?

Thanks!

Posted by: Cubits May 27 2006, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Baceramus @ Today at 11:02 AM)

I've gotten clutchless shifting down pretty well...

...Here's the question, would/should I be able to take the vehicle out of gear, rev-match for a downshift, and then put it in the lower gear without the clutch?

What?

Doing what you described IS clutchless shifting, and yes, it's entirely possible in anything from a mini to a montero.

You may think you can't pull the car out of gear easily without the clutch, but if you add a teeny bit of throttle it'll be effortless. Likewise with upshifts, just as you come off the throttle the stress will be releived from the drivetrain and it'll slide out.

The trick is to match the hand movement to the application of throttle. As soon as you touch the throttle pull the stick, this will let the gear out and avoid any acceleration. Then you need to "wait" for the revs to rise high enough for the next gear, which is very car specific. You can feel the stick into gear if you gently press it against the next gear, it'll all but suck itself in when the revs match.

What do you guys call power-shifting?

Posted by: Baceramus May 29 2006, 06:51 AM

Powershifting was some phrase I heard a kid tossing around back in high school and I assumed that this was what he was talking about. Sorry to use it out of context. Thanks for the reply!

Edit: Also, doesn't clutchless shifting reduce transmission life quickly? Would it be better to simply use the clutch in a daily driver or does it matter?

Posted by: SircatmaN Jun 7 2006, 05:12 PM

why would you not want to use your clutch? all that you will do is damage your gearbox. You'll find it quicker and easier to just use the clutch, perhaps a better option for shifting quicker is to get a quick shifter and a twin plate clutch? I have that setup in my fc3s and the car is capable of changing quicker than i can physically do it haha.
And if your talking about drift you should embrace the clutch, its one of the best options available to you!

Posted by: Rayp Jun 9 2006, 09:58 AM

QUOTE (SircatmaN @ Jun 7 2006, 07:14 PM)

If well performed, clutchless shifting is harmless to the gearbox. It can be quite useful when you have a worn clutch and want to make it last longer. Of course, as far as i know, clutchless shifting has no practical use in any kind of spirited driving (though the knowledge and skills might help you shift better).

Posted by: Frost Jun 9 2006, 11:39 AM

With all this chatter, can someone post a video of them doing a series of clutchless shifts?

Frost

Posted by: VRr1FD Jun 9 2006, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (Frost @ Today at 1:41 PM)

With all this chatter, can someone post a video of them doing a series of clutchless shifts?

Frost

what's in it for me?

the sti's box makes it easy as shit for gears 3-6. but why do you need a vid?

Posted by: Rudy Jun 12 2006, 12:07 PM

I think I could... I'm starting to get clutchless shifting down, although it's still a 1 in 3 shot of grinding >.<

Posted by: lotteman Jun 16 2006, 01:29 PM

Well, I just started driving manual correctly yesterday on my friend's 1984 Toyota Corrolla SR5. He let me go kind of wild on it and on this one turn I shifted down from 3rd to 2nd. I'm guessing I did the shift lock manuever because the rear wheels locked up and we started sliding a bit.

Anyone know why the wheels locked up when I shifted down? How can I avoid it next time and if I wanted to how can I initiate it? And if all this that I'm writing sounds ignorant than this question should be asked...

Was that really a shift lock that I did?

Posted by: Indecisive Jun 16 2006, 04:57 PM

yea, that was shift lock.

What happens is, when you downshift, the rpms will go up. If you don't rev match, or if you dont' let the rpm's drop low enough, when you engage the clutch again in the new gear, the engine and transmission speeds have to catch up to each other. This is felt with the sudden jerk. The wheels will also lock up if the transition isn't smooth.

This is what rev matching/heel and toe is for.

a clutch kick can be initiated by either downshifting to a lower gear so the rpms go up lots if you want a severe kick, or just by depressing the clutch, then engaging it again in the same gear with the rpm's fairly high for a lighter kick.

It's hard on the transmission/drivetrain tho.

you can prevent it a few ways. Either like stated before, rev match. Basically rev the engine a bit so the rpm's go up to where they would be after the shift (generally around 1000rpm higher), or go easy on the clutch and ease into the engagement.

Posted by: thrett Jul 3 2006, 06:39 PM

if im at a stop light how do i keep da car from stalling

Posted by: Dakai Jul 4 2006, 04:59 AM

It may be harder than automatic, but it ain't that hard. Automatic robs horsepower, so stick is better in the end.

Posted by: Frost Jul 4 2006, 05:31 AM

QUOTE (thrett @ Yesterday at 7:39 PM)

if im at a stop light how do i keep da car from stalling

Uhh... hit the clutch?

Frost

Posted by: Möbius Jul 4 2006, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (panda_truino @ Today at 8:59 AM)

It may be harder than automatic, but it ain't that hard. Automatic robs horsepower, so stick is better in the end.

Very insightful post?

Posted by: SilviaSlider Jul 30 2006, 06:47 PM

Im ganna begin my manual driving lesson from my cousin tommorow. Its my first time driving stick shift.

Any advice before i stall like hell tommorow...LoL
my first try tommorow

Posted by: Indecisive Jul 30 2006, 06:49 PM

keep yourself calm. Don't worry if/when you stall. If it's safe to do so, sit there, and calm yourself down before continuing.

You'll pick it up faster if you feel comfortable.

Good luck, and don't worry if you don't get it right away, if you practice continually, it'll become second nature.

Posted by: lotteman Jul 30 2006, 10:35 PM

QUOTE (panda_truino @ Jul 4 2006, 05:59 AM)

It may be harder than automatic, but it ain't that hard. Automatic robs horsepower, so stick is better in the end.

Hold the clutch or put the car in neutral.

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jul 31 2006, 05:41 AM

Best way to learn how to drive stick: Buy a manual transmission vehicle. Your own. Now you are forced to learn how to drive stick.

It'l be like being thrown into deep water without a lifejacket and you'l have to learn how to swim, or die.

Hey, it worked for me.

Posted by: Rayp Jul 31 2006, 06:36 AM

QUOTE (SilviaSlider @ Yesterday at 7:47 PM)

Im ganna begin my manual driving lesson from my cousin tommorow. Its my first time driving stick shift.

Any advice before i stall like hell tommorow...LoL
my first try tommorow

Learn to hold the clutch as soon as the car is about to stall, it will save you from embarassment

Posted by: BOZZ Jul 31 2006, 08:52 AM

QUOTE (WRX DEMON @ Today at 9:41 AM)

Best way to learn how to drive stick: Buy a manual transmission vehicle. Your own. Now you are forced to learn how to drive stick.

It'l be like being thrown into deep water without a lifejacket and you'l have to learn how to swim, or die.

Hey, it worked for me.

I thought you learned driving standard on your family's Neon? Either way there is a lot of negatives to doing as you suggest, I remember a buddy from school who bought a manual transmission Mustang in 2001 (when he didn't know how to drive manual at the time) and he totalled the transmission.

Although I am still learning how to drive manual the best thing would be to ask either a friend or family member who drives manual to teach you to drive it using their car or even your own. That's how I've been learning how to drive manual (a friend teaching me using his Matrix).

Then again different people learn it differently...

Posted by: IZaven Jul 31 2006, 09:26 AM

dosent it also depend on the quality of the clutch as well? because when i first learned how to drive it <still not good at it...stall...stall...stall..> i first used my cousins hyundai which had a horrible clutch...then i upgraded to my freinds audi which had a very nice clutch

so would the quality of the clutch affect the time or how you learn to drive a manuel?

Posted by: Indecisive Jul 31 2006, 10:30 AM

I'm actually in the same camp as WRX Demon.

When I first started, I used my dad's 318i and it took me quite a long time to be able to drive it around and not stall, but I still had problems with clutch control, downshifting correctly, slowing down enough for a turn for fear of stalling, etc...

but as soon as I bought my first car, I was forced to daily drive it, and picked up so many techniques very fast.

The only way i can really see a novice completely ruining a transmission is if he's an idiot boy racer who's busying trying to look cool and go fast, and not actually focusing on learning how to drive well. If you focus on learning to drive well, and start off slow, the only significant damage you may do is grind a few times at low speeds, and wear out the clutch, or burn it. And the latter two can be fixed relatively easily.

I guess it depends on the clutch...but not sure what you mean by "quality" of the clutch. It also depends on the person as well. The VERY first time I drove manual, was in a Nissan NX2000, which was a fairly new vehicle and had a very soft clutch and I had lots of problems with it.

When I started dedicating myself to learning manual, like I said I used my dad's '84 318i, which had a very stiff clutch, and immediately I found it easier to drive. Then, when I got my first car, a '86 200sx, that had an even stiffer clutch than the bmw did, and I found that even easier to drive once you got over the fact that the clutch engagement was virtually immediate.

I think that helped in the matter too. Personally, I like the clutch to grab straight away. The bmw was completely opposite and the pedal had to be lifted about 30% up before it would start engaging, which is very common for bmws apparently.

So basically, you have to find what YOU like, and stick with it to learn. And after that, other cars become easier.

When I switched to a '87 200sx, the clutch pedal felt more like the bmw, with a softer(but still fairly stiff) pedal, and a 20% engagement point. It only took about a day or so of driving to get used to the new pedal.

Posted by: Rayp Jul 31 2006, 02:05 PM

Assuming the clutch isn't worn out, you can adjust it so it's engagement point is lower or higher. Of course setting it too low or too high isn't a good idea. Too low and the never properly disengage (wich can cause damage), too high the clutch slip and wear out faster. But adjusted correctly, it's a lot better, the shifting is smoother and easier...

Posted by: WRX DEMON Type R Jul 31 2006, 02:08 PM

I remember back when i used to push the throttle sooo much and slowly release the clutch to get the car going up an incline... LOL. The car would be like "VRROOOOOOOOM" and going nowhere fast...

I have a good laugh when my co-workers (whom most drive autos) bring in customers cars into the shop that are manual and press the throttle so hard trying to get up the tiny incline between the ground and the shop floor.

Everything is so easy for me now - the only thing i think I havent learned how to do properly is heel and toe or whatever that thing is... Still far from that.

EDIT: I am in the process of teaching my brother how to drive teh stickshift. He's only got his first level driving license... I might buy another car so he can learn (something old and shitty), not because im afraid he'll mess up my transmission on the Subaru, but because I'm afraid he might be overwhelmed jumping from 130HP and no torque (SEVERELY neglected 1996 Dodge Neon) to 165HP and 168ftlb of torque (my car

- I know it's not much, but still...) and hurt himself and the car.

Posted by: Indecisive Jul 31 2006, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (WRX DEMON @ Today at 4:08 PM)

I remember back when i used to push the throttle sooo much and slowly release the clutch to get the car going up an incline... LOL. The car would be like "VRROOOOOOOOM" and going nowhere fast...

- I know it's not much, but still...) and hurt himself and the car.

for heel and toe, I find that if the pedals aren't set up correctly, not matter how much you practice, you just can't learn.

for the longest time I tried in my old car but couldn't get it.

After I smashed my car into a curb, the pedal sank down a few inches further than before and I picked up heel and toe very quickly after that.