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Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Technical Discussion > Takumi's downshift


Posted by: Sanders Mar 16 2017, 06:21 AM
Hello everyone!
In some parts of Initial D Takumi and some others do something that is absolutely confusing for me. https://youtu.be/_Tntdrg5N1M?t=51s - at this moment when you see Takumi's left foot you can notice that he make double press of the clutch pedal "between" every gear. For example, when he's on the 4th gear he press clutch pedal and let it go when his gear stick in the "middle" of the way from 4th gear to 3rd. Then he press it again and let it go while he's on the 3rd gear. Then after small pause he press it again and going to the 2nd gear doing it in the same way.
I saw it many times when professional racers let the cluth pedal after every gear while downshifting, i saw how they do heel & toe and double clutch technique, but i've never seen something like that. Maybe it is some kind of anime creator's mistake or not ?
Please, help me to understand it wacko.gif

Posted by: AUSyTyIN Mar 16 2017, 08:09 AM
QUOTE (Sanders @ 1 hour, 48 minutes ago)
Hello everyone!
In some parts of Initial D Takumi and some others do something that is absolutely confusing for me.  https://youtu.be/_Tntdrg5N1M?t=51s - at this moment when you see Takumi's left foot you can notice that he make double press of the clutch pedal "between" every gear. For example, when he's on the 4th gear he press clutch pedal and let it go when his gear stick in the "middle" of the way from 4th gear to 3rd. Then he press it again and let it go while he's on the 3rd gear. Then after small pause he press it again and going to the 2nd gear doing it in the same way.
I saw it many times when professional racers let the cluth pedal after every gear while downshifting, i saw how they do heel & toe and double clutch technique, but i've never seen something like that. Maybe it is some kind of anime creator's mistake or not ?
Please, help me to understand it   wacko.gif

Double clutching comes from the early days of manual transmissions, which didn't have syncros, so you'd have to double clutch to get the gear to spin at around the right relative speeds to engage the desired gear. Now, you could rev match the engine to the desired gear and avoid using the clutch all together, which is a lot quicker at least while driving normally (it's also possible to do this with a modern manual as well), but it's still not as fast as a typical clutch actuation.


No...why would you do it when racing? I have no clue. I too noticed the double clutching in Initial D. They actually say the line "not double clutching, like you should" in the first Fast and Furious movie as well. I'm thinking it's just a thing that non-car guys think will sound impressive when they say it to other non-car guys.

Posted by: Meteor Mar 16 2017, 08:31 PM
He's not double clutching. He's only pressing the clutch once for each downshift, whereas double clutching has you clutch twice per shift.

Anyway, this particular technique is known as the heel-toe downshift, and it's something you do to avoid upsetting the car's balance when making quick downshifts. When you downshift, the drive wheels naturally want to slow down, and you can easily lose a lot of traction if they slow down too quickly. By clutching in and revving up a bit before the downshift, you counteract the drive wheels' tendency to slow down like this, and that lets you downshift very smoothly even when you're rapidly going through the gears.

Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 17 2017, 04:45 AM
That's not double-clutching. The first press is his right foot on the brake. The second is him jabbing the clutch with his left and heel-toeing with his right by sliding his right heel over to the accelerator as Meteor pointed out.

Posted by: AUSyTyIN Mar 17 2017, 09:52 AM
Well there you have it.



(can you tell it's been a while since I've seen these? lol)

My new copies are showing up today though!

Posted by: Sanders Mar 17 2017, 03:20 PM
QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 4:45 AM)
That's not double-clutching. The first press is his right foot on the brake. The second is him jabbing the clutch with his left and heel-toeing with his right by sliding his right heel over to the accelerator as Meteor pointed out.

You all understood me wrong. I told about actions in 0:53.

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Posted by: Meteor Mar 17 2017, 03:26 PM
0:53 is the exact scene we were talking about.

Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 17 2017, 05:14 PM
QUOTE (Sanders @ 1 hour, 53 minutes ago)
You all understood me wrong. I told about actions in 0:53.

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QUOTE (Meteor @ 1 hour, 47 minutes ago)
0:53 is the exact scene we were talking about.

Exactly. Your link went straight to the part you were talking about, and I explained exactly what you were seeing. Try watching it again after reading my description about three times beforehand. Then after watching, read it again.

Posted by: Sensation! Mar 17 2017, 05:32 PM
QUOTE (Sanders @ 2 hours, 12 minutes ago)
You all understood me wrong. I told about actions in 0:53.

I decided to stop and freeze frame it. It's probably an animation error. There does seem to be at least one extra kick not in sync with the sound.

That said, there are techniques for drivers to touch the clutch and let it slip to keep it at a certain RPM. It's a car control thing.

Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 17 2017, 06:53 PM
QUOTE (Sensation! @ 1 hour, 21 minutes ago)
I decided to stop and freeze frame it. It's probably an animation error. There does seem to be at least one extra kick not in sync with the sound.

That said, there are techniques for drivers to touch the clutch and let it slip to keep it at a certain RPM. It's a car control thing.

Oh, I see what you're talking about now. The little tiny bit on the edge of the screen in the shift sequence. Didn't even notice that before.

Animation error.

Posted by: Sanders Mar 18 2017, 02:29 AM
QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 7 hours, 36 minutes ago)
Oh, I see what you're talking about now. The little tiny bit on the edge of the screen in the shift sequence. Didn't even notice that before.

Animation error.

It seems like Takumi press the clucth twice while gearshifting. Simply put, he let the clucth during the change of gear, not after the changing.

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Posted by: Ivanik Mar 18 2017, 07:45 AM
After watching it in slow motion, yes, it is clear the he moves his left foot twice per each gear change. I won't say that is or is not a double clutching or an animation error, but the double movement is certain.

Posted by: Nomake Wan Mar 18 2017, 11:47 AM
QUOTE (Sanders @ 9 hours, 17 minutes ago)
It seems like Takumi press the clucth twice while gearshifting. Simply put, he let the clucth during the change of gear, not after the changing.

Yes, now that I know where in the frame to look, I see it. However, I'm much more willing to believe that it's an animation error considering this is the only time you ever see it and in every other sequence where it shows the pedals he shifts normally.

Animation error, plain and simple.

Posted by: Sanders Mar 19 2017, 02:42 AM
Thank you all for answers!

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