Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums
   
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )Resend Validation Email

DJ Panel ( Server Stats )   Song History   Initial D World Chat Room (IRC)   Broadband Stream
RADIO BROADCAST » streaming at 96kbps with 9 unique listeners, playing (Fifth Stage DS2) King & Queen - Dance Europe Express

       

  Automotive Section Rules
Scenes depicted in Initial D are strictly fiction. Please follow the traffic rules and drive safely.
When posting a classified thread, please label it with For Sale (FS), For Trade (FT) or Want To Buy (WTB) in the thread title.
Use the Search function before you start a new topic. Posting a duplicated thread may earn yourself a verbal warning.
Personal videos of illegal street racing are prohibited. Do NOT brag about your exploits. Posting a video depicting dangerous/reckless driving behavior on your part will result in an actual warning.

FORUM MODERATOR : FORUM MODERATOR

6 Pages  1 2 3 » ( Go to first unread post )

Views: 11,144  ·  Replies: 127 
> Celbii's RedSuns FC3S Build
celbii
  Posted: Nov 18 2013, 11:19 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forums here, but thought this place would be the most fitting for my build. My names David and I am located in OKC. I have always been a rx7 fan, but sold my old low mileage s4 vert about 5 years ago, and still regret it to this day. I just recently purchased a white 88 NA FC3S, bone stock(besides some ghey wheels) and 126k on the orig motor.

My plans are to replicate the early RedSuns FC3S as close as I can. I can tell you right now however encase people want to rag on me for it, but it wont be a 100% replica lol. I plan on keeping the car non turbo, eventually getting it rebuilt next year when I can save up the funds and going with an aggressive street port. I am planning to shoot for 170WHP NA when all is said and done. So replica will mostly be bodywise.

Bad stuff about the car: High mileage, underbody has some pretty decent rust. Ghetto exhaust system, 4 lug, some other random stuff(leaky windshield etc). I need to be patient and try to find a 5 lug rust free parts car so I can swap over to the 5 lug setup, and with that the bigger front brakes since mine is just a base model with the single piston brakes all around. Also with a rust free parts car ill be able to slowly swap over all the suspension and brake lines, etc under the car to some rust free ones and change out bushings at the same time.

So here she sits as I got her a few weeks ago:
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 960 x 720. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.

user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 960 x 720. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


Now that I have my own house, bills, my gf etc, I don't have much money to toss into it like I used to be able to, so progress will be slow. I have already done some random stuff and when I take some pictures ill update it later this week.

Thanks for looking!
David

kyonpalm
Posted: Nov 18 2013, 11:53 AM


Professional Amateur
Group Icon

Group: ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 10,450
Member No.: 30,882
Joined: Oct 16th 2008
Location: Laniakea





FCs are super bueno. Best of luck with the build, and welcome to the forums.
Proud Contributor of the Music Section Revival Project
THE_HONDA_CG2
Posted: Nov 18 2013, 01:41 PM


Patient Zero
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 4,273
Member No.: 37,947
Joined: Oct 1st 2011
Location: Update Profile





That is one clean looking FC! I wish you the best of luck with it! Welcome to the forums! I'm looking forward to all the potential updates! happy.gif
Banken
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 12:52 AM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





Strip it and build an E Production race car.

YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 19 2013, 06:27 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





Heh not building an E production race car tongue.gif
I do plan on taking it to our track once I get all the suspension and 5lug/brakes/wheels/tires sorted out.
hallettracing.net/

Just a quick update, Snagged this MOMO race off craigslist yesterday for $40. This will replace my deep dish momo gotham so I can use the race with my quick release.
Sorry for the crap picture
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 2448 x 3264. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


Its used, and I can't remember the date on the back but I want to say 8-10 yrs old. Once I cleaned it up a bit it was pretty nice though, no real wear or viable damage to the wheel, except on small scratch on the bottom spoke, and a few places where the leather has separated at the seams just barely. All and all a super great deal for $40.
Banken
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 07:04 AM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





As someone who has owned two Momo Race wheels on two different cars, it's not a great wheel. The spoke position makes no sense and the leather is slippery when wet.

The REAL Momo racing models in suede, or a deep dish wheel are the only real option... there's no real reason to use a quick detach on a street car. The only reason to use one is to keep your wheel from getting stolen, which is never going to happen, and actually makes your wheel easier to steal (unless you take it inside every time), or because you have a roll cage and race seat and the car hard to get in to. In which case a tilt wheel spacer is way cooler.


You are wasting your time with the five-lug upgrade and wheel upgrades. All you're going to do is add weight to a car that doesn't have enough power to justify upgrading the calipers and rotors. Get some coilovers (with fresh, rebuildable shocks), bushings, and sticky tires, add some camber, and you're good to go. Get an LSD (anything but viscous) if you really want to go fast. An NA FC doesn't need anything wider than 205, or any taller than 16, because it'll just make the car slower.

But to be honest a seat upgrade and harness belts would do you more good than anything else.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 19 2013, 07:56 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





QUOTE (Banken @ 52 minutes, 26 seconds ago)
As someone who has owned two Momo Race wheels on two different cars, it's not a great wheel. The spoke position makes no sense and the leather is slippery when wet.

The REAL Momo racing models in suede, or a deep dish wheel are the only real option... there's no real reason to use a quick detach on a street car. The only reason to use one is to keep your wheel from getting stolen, which is never going to happen, and actually makes your wheel easier to steal (unless you take it inside every time), or because you have a roll cage and race seat and the car hard to get in to. In which case a tilt wheel spacer is way cooler.


You are wasting your time with the five-lug upgrade and wheel upgrades. All you're going to do is add weight to a car that doesn't have enough power to justify upgrading the calipers and rotors. Get some coilovers (with fresh, rebuildable shocks), bushings, and sticky tires, add some camber, and you're good to go. Get an LSD (anything but viscous) if you really want to go fast. An NA FC doesn't need anything wider than 205, or any taller than 16, because it'll just make the car slower.

But to be honest a seat upgrade and harness belts would do you more good than anything else.

Hey Banken,

First off, thank you for the great feedback!

On the Momo race vs different wheel, what kind of spoke layout would you recommend? And is there any difference between running a deepdish + short hub(My current setup) vs a flat wheel + QR(which I already own) + Short hub, basically placing the wheel in the same spot? I just wanted to switch to a flat wheel since I wasn't a big fan of my deepdish ( momo gotham), plus I would need to buy a wheel spacer to be able to use the horn as the car will still be street driven most of the time its not at the track.

For the 5 lug, My main reason for doing this was because with my base model 4 lug, I have the single piston brakes all the way around, and the 5 lug would let me upgrade to the bigger stock brakes upfront. While the over all goal for the car, 170WHP, isnt that much, wouldn't the brake upgrade still be worth it for track use, or would I really be wasting my time there? Also 5 lug opens me upto alot more wheel options, and while it may not be a power upgrade, and may even have a small negative effect, I would still like to get good looking wheels for the car, probably 17's with 225;s.

And I agree with the seat, I think that would be a great upgrade over the dead stock one that is in there now.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 09:27 AM


I just wanna go fast
Group Icon

Group: FORUM MODERATOR
Posts: 9,184
Member No.: 30,193
Joined: Jul 25th 2008
Location: Plymouth, MN





You can never have enough stopping power, especially if the track is a possibility.
Vortrex
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 09:40 AM


1988 Toyota MR2 AW11, My Go-Kart AE86
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 559
Member No.: 38,745
Joined: Jul 2nd 2012
Location: Huizen, The Netherlands





QUOTE (Banken @ 2 hours, 35 minutes ago)
An NA FC doesn't need anything wider than 205, or any taller than 16, because it'll just make the car slower.

A friend of mine has a FC3S S4, I think with Turbo II, but he has 17 inch wheels with 225 front & rear tyres! ohmy.gif Is that overused, I can buy his car for 3500 euro's. (around 4500 dollars)
And did you mean: never get viscious?

Btw, nice FC, now buy Ryousuke bodykit with the nice stickers. And you're good to go! wink2.gif

This post has been edited by Vortrex on Nov 19 2013, 09:42 AM
celbii
  Posted: Nov 19 2013, 09:54 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





QUOTE (Spaz @ 27 minutes, 7 seconds ago)
You can never have enough stopping power, especially if the track is a possibility.

This was my lines of thinking also, especially since I will need to buy a parts car eventually to replace all the rust crap, may as well find one with 5 lug swap.
backalleyracer
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 08:25 PM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,770
Member No.: 7,122
Joined: May 1st 2005
Location: Las Vegas





I see baken's point, but I do think the 5 lug/TII brakes are a worthy upgrade.

NA rotaries need to be light - extremely light, to be any good. I like to use the rule of thumb of sub 2k lbs for justifying NA 2 rotors; unfortunately FC's are extemely difficult to get that low in weight. You will be tube framing stuff.

But that's in the case of racing, building a car for fun is an entirely different ball game smile.gif

Just have fun with it biggrin.gif
Banken
Posted: Nov 19 2013, 08:46 PM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





QUOTE (Spaz @ Today, 9:27 AM)
You can never have enough stopping power, especially if the track is a possibility.

...have you ever driven an NA FC? It's slower than a two-door VTEC Civic in a straight line. All he needs is brake lines and pads, since he's driving the lightest version of the FC.

If you've got more brake than tire, you can have too much stopping power. Brake cooling is another issue entirely, but the FC comes with relatively good stock brake ducts (if you don't have fog lights).

FWIW, the stock turbo four-pots are good even on the track to about 450 HP. Past that point and you'll need to upgrade to big brakes (the stock calipers aren't stiff enough).

Another reason to use the four-lugs is because it would be easy to find used racing wheels in sizes appropriate for the power (15"X7").

QUOTE

A friend of mine has a FC3S S4, I think with Turbo II, but he has 17 inch wheels with 225 front & rear tyres! ohmy.gif Is that overused, I can buy his car for 3500 euro's. (around 4500 dollars)
And did you mean: never get viscious?


The 17 inch 225 tires are fine for a turbo (actually 255s and higher on modified FCs), although 16s in the front work just as well (according to someone with an FC race car I know).

Did I say viscious? I meant viscous. Never use a viscous LSD. They are crap.

This post has been edited by Banken on Nov 19 2013, 08:50 PM
celbii
  Posted: Nov 23 2013, 04:32 PM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





Just a quick update of some work i've done to it:
Engine bay overall, its a little dirty and parts are rusty now and not shiny tongue.gif
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


This little contraption here allows me to operate my 5th and 6th ports analog style instead of buying rpm switches to do it electronically. Its not the prettiest thing in the world but overall my cost to make it including hoses and everything was probably $30, well worth it for working 5th and 6th ports. It runs off the airpump and you adjust the air dump valve based on the correct rpm (3800) to make it open. Have to remove the ACV and block it off to do this.
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


My Bonez intake kit. gives you the adapter and filter. I need to take it off though and oil it since its a K&N and doesn't come pre oiled, luckily I don't drive the car that much so its okay at the moment. Also made some custom brackets for it so I could keep the MAF mounted straight up instead of sideways like the provided brackets mount it. And yes it is missing a hose clamp around it, the filter is a super super makes me rage tight fit and the supplied hose clamp was too small once it was on the maf adapter. One day before it gets too hot i'll try to make a cold air box for it, but for now its fine.
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


So today I got the momo race installed, and got my horn to work. The NRG quick release 3.0 that I bought used off ebay was missing the horn contacts plate on one part of it for whatever dumb reason, and I didn't even think of it when I bought it. LUCKILY the momo race I got off craigslist had half a quick release attached to it(He told me he took it out of his wrecked 240 at the yard, but im thinking now it was probably just jacked >_>) and I was able to pull the horn contact plate off of it and install it into my nice quick release, so that random half of a quick release that I thought was just junk turned out to be very damn useful lol.
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.

user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 1024 x 768. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


I also installed a double din radio a few weeks ago to get rid of the OEM cassette player, and now I can listen to my initial D super euro beats lol! Stock interior overall is very nice, and even though there is a gap above the player it doesn't bother me at all, at least the surround isnt all cracked and falling apart like most of them. I'll fill that in one day.
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.


I also took off my ACV block off plate today, made a new gasket for it and got the proper sized screws from the hardware store so I don't have long screws with tons of washers sticking out holding it down. It fixed a small vacuum leak I had there.

Took the car out for a spin down a street nearby and it felt awesome, fixed vacuum leak and cold air gave me some nices powa and the car felt great, It will feel even better sometime next year when it gets rebuilt with an aggressive street port smile.gif But for now it sleeps far away until I work on it again next week lol.
user posted image
Image size reduced, original size: 768 x 1024. Click here to view the image in its original dimension.
Banken
Posted: Nov 23 2013, 06:52 PM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





Don't do an aggressive street port without tuning. You'll be wasting your time if you do.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 23 2013, 07:18 PM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





QUOTE (Banken @ 26 minutes, 34 seconds ago)
Don't do an aggressive street port without tuning. You'll be wasting your time if you do.

I'll most likely go with a middle of the road mild one when it comes time.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 23 2013, 10:34 PM


I just wanna go fast
Group Icon

Group: FORUM MODERATOR
Posts: 9,184
Member No.: 30,193
Joined: Jul 25th 2008
Location: Plymouth, MN





QUOTE (celbii @ 3 hours, 15 minutes ago)
I'll most likely go with a middle of the road mild one when it comes time.

Even then. Rtek.
Banken
Posted: Nov 23 2013, 11:15 PM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





QUOTE (Spaz @ 40 minutes, 45 seconds ago)
Even then. Rtek.

The RTEK is not a great idea. You're better off using a sub-computer that allows PC tuning than a mod chip that uses PDAs you can't even buy any more.

Get a Greddy eManage Ultimate. It's more than powerful enough for ANY level of tuning you have in mind.

You can also use an Apex Power FC for the 1st-gen FD with a few modifications.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 24 2013, 12:07 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





I don't think I need to tune it, i've seen plenty of builds hit higher than what im aiming for without a tune, but it will probably happen later down the road.
Banken
Posted: Nov 24 2013, 05:15 AM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





QUOTE (celbii @ 5 hours, 8 minutes ago)
I don't think I need to tune it, i've seen plenty of builds hit higher than what im aiming for without a tune, but it will probably happen later down the road.

...you will never get 170 whp from that engine without tuning.

Never, ever expect to get decent numbers out of any modification without tuning.
Spaz
Posted: Nov 24 2013, 07:44 AM


I just wanna go fast
Group Icon

Group: FORUM MODERATOR
Posts: 9,184
Member No.: 30,193
Joined: Jul 25th 2008
Location: Plymouth, MN





QUOTE (Banken @ 8 hours, 27 minutes ago)
The RTEK is not a great idea.  You're better off using a sub-computer that allows PC tuning than a mod chip that uses PDAs you can't even buy any more.

They ARE working on PC software, last I heard. But I do agree that palm-based tuning is far from efficient.

QUOTE (Banken @ 2 hours, 27 minutes ago)
...you will never get 170 whp from that engine without tuning.

Never, ever expect to get decent numbers out of any modification without tuning.

This.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 24 2013, 10:28 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





QUOTE (Banken @ 5 hours, 13 minutes ago)
...you will never get 170 whp from that engine without tuning.

Never, ever expect to get decent numbers out of any modification without tuning.

I would argue with that as there are dyno sheets out there of people untuned hitting 180-190, but that indeed does not mean I will. Either way it will just boil down to what my builder says, if he wants to tune it then ill get a tuning system and we will tune it. I'll eventually end up doing it anyways to get extra power and safely, but I need to get the engine out, save up money for the rebuild + porting work and some other stuff we are going to do, then get it back in the car and up and running before I buy any tuning stuff. So I do agree tuning is the best way to hit my goals and to do it safely, but it will be after engine is back in and running.

This post has been edited by celbii on Nov 24 2013, 10:31 AM
Banken
Posted: Nov 24 2013, 03:24 PM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





QUOTE (celbii @ 4 hours, 55 minutes ago)
I would argue with that as there are dyno sheets out there of people untuned hitting 180-190, but that indeed does not mean I will. Either way it will just boil down to what my builder says, if he wants to tune it then ill get a tuning system and we will tune it. I'll eventually end up doing it anyways to get extra power and safely, but I need to get the engine out, save up money for the rebuild + porting work and some other stuff we are going to do, then get it back in the car and up and running before I buy any tuning stuff. So I do agree tuning is the best way to hit my goals and to do it safely, but it will be after engine is back in and running.

There is no freaking way. A stock ECU from the 80s is not capable of compensating for such massive timing profile changes.

If anyone got that much HP out of the engine, it would be from using a straight pipe exhaust and eliminating the emissions and accessories, and it wouldn't be wheel horsepower. Which counts about as much as using a bench dyno on the engine.

I do own an NA FC FWIW.
celbii
  Posted: Nov 25 2013, 06:34 AM


IDW Jr. Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 59
Member No.: 42,250
Joined: Nov 18th 2013
Location: okc





QUOTE (Banken @ Yesterday, 3:24 PM)
There is no freaking way. A stock ECU from the 80s is not capable of compensating for such massive timing profile changes.

If anyone got that much HP out of the engine, it would be from using a straight pipe exhaust and eliminating the emissions and accessories, and it wouldn't be wheel horsepower. Which counts about as much as using a bench dyno on the engine.

I do own an NA FC FWIW.

Hey Banken,
I found the thread on it http://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128...-inside-416012/

It is def using a full exhaust and some other little goodies. I will hopefully be in the same place since I'm in Oklahoma and we don't have emissions here. My car right now has no cats, but the exhaust is just on the P/O threw together at some muffler shop and its crappy. I have a racing beat headers and pre silencer on the way, and I will get a muffler and catback portion welded up one of these days.
RedsunsF1
Posted: Nov 25 2013, 09:28 AM


Nasa UT | Global Time Attack | AWD Limited
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 853
Member No.: 38,401
Joined: Feb 29th 2012
Location: Salt Lake City, UT





One of my co-workers at our shops has a Turbo II Rx-7. He tuned it with a stand alone and it runs like a champ now. I'll try and get more information about it.
Banken
Posted: Nov 26 2013, 12:00 AM


IDW Goldmember
**********

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,110
Member No.: 22,465
Joined: Dec 17th 2006
Location: Japan





QUOTE (celbii @ Yesterday, 6:34 AM)
Hey Banken,
I found the thread on it http://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128...-inside-416012/

It is def using a full exhaust and some other little goodies. I will hopefully be in the same place since I'm in Oklahoma and we don't have emissions here. My car right now has no cats, but the exhaust is just on the P/O threw together at some muffler shop and its crappy. I have a racing beat headers and pre silencer on the way, and I will get a muffler and catback portion welded up one of these days.

I'll take part of my statement back. You can get those numbers if you are very lucky, with a big, big streetport AND when you change to higher compression rotors (you have an S4, he used S5 rotors) AND remove the sleeves (which means you lose low-end power because you disable the variable timing) AND use a completely different intake manifold and a bigger throttle...

But as I was stating, and as everyone in the threads were stating, with those numbers he could have made well over 200 hp with tuning.

6 Pages  1 2 3 »