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> Sega ID4 National Tournament (HK stage)
Braja
Posted: Dec 16 2007, 09:05 AM


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QUOTE (BDDEE@ @ Today at 5:40 AM)
yea so in a few minutes itll be the 17th here...so surely the contest is over
who won?!?!?!??!?!?!

Yes the contest is over. Takahiro won, beating Ryuuto in the finals. CKF won in the 1st round on akina, but lost on irohazaka to Ryuuto when Ryuuto's black cappucino shut its lights off at the left turn just before going into the tunnel before the finish. had it been a day battle, who knows. but the tournament had set courses

rd.1 - akina dh daytime
rd.2 - irohazaka dhd night
rd.3 - tsukuba OB daytime
rd.4 - akina dh night

i should leave the rest of the details to ODIE

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 16 2007, 09:09 AM
J]-[UN
Posted: Dec 16 2007, 11:28 PM


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QUOTE (Odie @ Dec 9 2007, 08:01 AM)
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=I8eukqWEERE

Wtf am I the only one who thinks that was a terrible battle???

CKF was like staying in 4th gear the whole of cp1, and he shud have been dusted by MAN cp3 1st corner after that terrible mistake where he crashed down to 150+

Nice save at the last right curve though.
Braja
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 02:11 AM


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QUOTE (J)
-[UN,Yesterday at 11:28 PM] Wtf am I the only one who thinks that was a terrible battle???

CKF was like staying in 4th gear the whole of cp1, and he shud have been dusted by MAN cp3 1st corner after that terrible mistake where he crashed down to 150+

Nice save at the last right curve though.

that's how you battle with boost, sadly. CKF did that on purpose. only the leader has to worry about TA skill.

you shoulda seen the finals in japan. they were hilarious (or disgusting, depending how you look at it) for anyone who does mostly TA. the worst part is that the main tv screen was always on the car following. in other words, you just watched the guy who doesnt need to do much. 95% of the time they were just purposely grinding the wall and diving into the corner 2-3 seconds before a turn. they dont lose speed as long as its just the inside nose. on straights, depending on the gap from the leader, you actually gain more speed by hitting the wall, cause boost is trying to help. and in corners you can dive in super early. so that way they can push the leader off the wall and take the lead. but they only do it at key overtake points, so the rest of the time they just goof off. once they pass, they go back to proper lines and techniques.

still, since the lead car is doing a proper TA, the final time comes out insanely fast. that's why ckf and man ended at 2'58-59.

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 17 2007, 02:20 AM
J]-[UN
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 06:58 AM


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Umm if u notice the Eng version DOES NOT HAVE ACCEL/SPEED boost

This post has been edited by J]-[UN on Dec 17 2007, 07:03 AM
J]-[UN
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 07:01 AM


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Umm if u notice the Eng version DOES NOT HAVE ACCEL/SPEED boost. When CKF crashed cp3 1st corner, his speed dropped to 154 accelerated as normal, MAN probably came out of that corner around 159-160.

English version has a bit of a wangan-nish boost though, aka as long as u dun screw up corners or take them passably well, you'll reduce the distance to the car in front EVEN THOUGH your speed is lower than the car ur chasing.

I dunno about jap version but in Eng version the car in front gets boosted abit forward everytime the guy behind rams his/her (I only include 'her' cos of some cute chicks I see battling nowadays) butt. Its not because the car behind has superior acceleration.

Heck its probably the same for jap version I saw a battle on tsu ob and the guy behind literally made the car in front spring forward like it was bungee jumping every time he rammed from behind.

Anyway I dunno about v4 but the last time I was in HK during early v3 practically everyone I saw there had sucky battle skills cos they all played boost off hence no training in blocking suicide rams , mass weaving etc. Guys who were running like '21 akagi rx8 (and this was before tst and the WR was 20'4 s14 i believe) would make horrendous mistakes like ramming themselves into walls while blocking or end up taking corners so late they end up leaving gaps from the inside as wide as barn doors.

Anyway for Eng version its basically a TA run even with boost on cos the guy behind just doesn't have enough accel/speed bonus to pass unless he manages to ram you into a wall (which happens against cappu a lot) or kill ur accel enough so you end up coming out of consecutive corners at lower speeds which in turn starts to mess up your drift.

P.S. Anyway I didn't make this post to insult or flame anybody or their skills, I just honestly felt surprised and disappointed that considering the finals of the HK tourney had 2 top v4 players in it produced such a mediocre (at best) battle. Its not as if the guy in front was running particularly fast, I mean cmon the RHOD was probably 140 at best, cp1 2nd corner was like 130 and cp3 1st was at best 160.

This post has been edited by J]-[UN on Dec 17 2007, 07:07 AM
Braja
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 08:18 AM


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oh i see the corner you mean. but yeah boost always helps the trailing car when going into the consecs on akina, no matter how you take RHOD or the following corner (the one you're referring to). it doesnt always work right away but it'll definitely catch u up by the consecs. as for the rest, you really can't expect someone to run normal TA when someone is nudging them and trying to pass every step of the way.

does it really speed you up being nudged in the eng version? in japan it slows you down a bit or at very least makes handling difficult. seems it did that with CKF, hence why going into the final turns of CP4 he was only in the 150's and MAN was blasting into him.

still, in battling, it's not really the case of finishing with great speed, its just a case of finishing in front of the other guy. blocking, passing, etc will slow ppl by a lot. and also, being a good battler means knowing how to manipulate boost if it's on. one of the akina battles in the japanese championships had a finishing time of about 3'11" just cause they both were trying to be trailing in the same spots, so kept crashing purposely. dumb boost strategies. one of the most amazing examples of boost manipulation is this video by Yuuki SR. looks like a joke to the untrained eye. but Yuuki SR is by far one of the best in the world. This is just battle techniques, not TA techniques.

lastly, after having seen at least 5 people capable of 2'57"xxx on akina doing TA's, i can tell you none of them can do it consecutively. They force quit at least 20 times before they finally finish the TA and still it's not always on par.

anyway i dont mean to criticize your Q. it's an understandable one. i personally would like to see battling be about driving technique more than passing/blocking/boost manipulation. so i agree, from a style perspective, the video of the HK finals was disappointing. but from a battle perspective, it was high level and kinda impressive

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 17 2007, 08:22 AM
Phoenix_Cypher_K1
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 08:44 AM


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In the Eng ver, the trailing car behind actually "pushes" the leader, ala blocking CPU cars. I played some close Iro DH battles before and with the trailing car ALWAYS behind me bumping all the way down I was doing CPs that I can never reach in TA.

This post has been edited by Phoenix_Cypher_K1 on Dec 17 2007, 08:45 AM
Braja
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 09:09 AM


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really? that's kinda cool. i gotta try the eng version sometime and see what differences i notice.

EDIT: not saying you're wrong, of course, cause i don't play the eng version, but just wondering why CKF's speed didn't raise when MAN was pushing him. i can still hit 160kph even when i exit the fireworks as low as 137 like CKF, but as soon as MAN's nose started touching him, his accel slowed and he didnt make it to 160's

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 17 2007, 09:34 AM
Phoenix_Cypher_K1
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 09:49 AM


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That, I can't explain. Maybe the "push" from the trailing car also slows the leader. I haven't got many close battles in Akina so I can't really compare. And Iro i really can't tell the speed difference...

EDIT: I'm thinking that when the trailing car pushes, it just pushes the leader forward and the leader is travelling faster than what the speedo actually says while blocking....since the trailing car does have CPU pushing power in the English version.

This post has been edited by Phoenix_Cypher_K1 on Dec 17 2007, 10:08 AM
J]-[UN
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 10:08 AM


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When ur being nudged behind, ur accel actually drops because the car isn't moving 'straight', its as though ur quarter turning the wheel, but the car is being pushed forward (compared to being pushed sideways during startup ram).

In eng version if the guy behind hits a wall and u take the turn clean with decent speed you'll automatically dust the guy, hence I feel the battle was quite mediocre...not low lvl but far from the best i've seen/played. Both players were like making mistakes at the same time in the same corners =/
Braja
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 10:55 AM


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i think i know what you're talking about, but it depends on distance. that's why boost needs to be studied and why ppl who study it well can manipulate it well, like Tsunde Racing. it's also why, sadly, all the high level battles sometimes look like low level ones. if someone gets passed, they drop back and goof off to build boost.

distance is one key element, of course, as is time to CP. if you're less than 30 meters (just an example. don't quote me on that) behind your opponent, boost will have little effect, and making a mistake will slow you like you said. however, if you start from a ways back and then catchup you have a couple seconds of massive boost. thats why overtake pts and timing are important. if you catchup to them on a straight or in a section that's easy to control the car, then it's really hard to pass and boost wears off. then it's a TA for both ppl. if you start from 30-40+ meters back and reach them by the key pt you can fly right past them or at least give them a good annoying push off their line before boost wears off.

MAN basically did a TA. that's why the final time was under 3'00. so i guess it makes sense what you said about pushing. he pushed CKF to the finish. and also why pheonix, you got better CP times on iro. the comp calculates both players time, takes the best one, and splits the difference. and you're right, MAN shoulda dusted CKF, even though MAN made a couple expected mistakes. but thanks to the magic of boost and blocking and a bit of luck and timing, CKF took it in a typical battle way. not pretty, but effective.

anyway, if you were disappointed by the HK final then you woulda hated almost all the final races in japan. it was still interesting.

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 17 2007, 10:59 AM
DamienWolf
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 05:13 PM


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QUOTE (Braja @ Today at 2:55 AM)
i think i know what you're talking about, but it depends on distance. that's why boost needs to be studied and why ppl who study it well can manipulate it well, like Tsunde Racing. it's also why, sadly, all the high level battles sometimes look like low level ones. if someone gets passed, they drop back and goof off to build boost.

distance is one key element, of course, as is time to CP. if you're less than 30 meters (just an example. don't quote me on that) behind your opponent, boost will have little effect, and making a mistake will slow you like you said. however, if you start from a ways back and then catchup you have a couple seconds of massive boost. thats why overtake pts and timing are important. if you catchup to them on a straight or in a section that's easy to control the car, then it's really hard to pass and boost wears off. then it's a TA for both ppl. if you start from 30-40+ meters back and reach them by the key pt you can fly right past them or at least give them a good annoying push off their line before boost wears off.

MAN basically did a TA. that's why the final time was under 3'00. so i guess it makes sense what you said about pushing. he pushed CKF to the finish. and also why pheonix, you got better CP times on iro. the comp calculates both players time, takes the best one, and splits the difference. and you're right, MAN shoulda dusted CKF, even though MAN made a couple expected mistakes. but thanks to the magic of boost and blocking and a bit of luck and timing, CKF took it in a typical battle way. not pretty, but effective.

anyway, if you were disappointed by the HK final then you woulda hated almost all the final races in japan. it was still interesting.

This is why, for me, boost off is the best way to battle. Boost off + Togue rules = great AND fair battles. No shitty, unnatural things like boost and stuff. Just you, your skills and your car. Your car performs exactly how it was meant to be.

This post has been edited by DamienWolf on Dec 17 2007, 05:15 PM
Fuzz
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 06:31 PM


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Touge rules as in 1 car in front and the other behind. But if the road is wide enough then its car side by side. I hate it wen ppl decide to ram you into the wall at the start
Braja
Posted: Dec 17 2007, 08:54 PM


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yeah the starting ram is the problem, esp if both players are a high level. the ram makes it impossible to catchup, unless the leader messes up several turns and the follower is perfect, but even if he catches he has to worry about passing. thats why tournaments use boost. its rare for them to mess up enough to be caught after the startup ram.

if you agree not to ram at startup someone may still complain about inside/outside lane at the 1st turn and whatnot. i don't recommend leader-follower unless you calculate distance from the other car, but that isn't a great idea for a video game i think. cause ppl might still be grumpy they have to allow a loss to their record, even if the opponent claims it isn't a loss. but still i agree it would be better than boost. more interesting to watch at least.

but, thanks to the new online battle system in japan, you never see your opponent, and can't communicate. therefore, you could never have a fair battle. only in tournaments or something

This post has been edited by Braja on Dec 17 2007, 09:03 PM
J]-[UN
Posted: Dec 18 2007, 02:32 AM


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boost off sucks

boost off no skill

I rather lose a boost on match instead playing crappy TA boost off matches or lose a boost off match cos i got rammed at the start
Odie
  Posted: Dec 18 2007, 04:26 AM


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QUOTE (Braja @ Yesterday at 8:18 AM)
lastly, after having seen at least 5 people capable of 2'57"xxx on akina doing TA's, i can tell you none of them can do it consecutively. They force quit at least 20 times before they finally finish the TA and still it's not always on par.

The thing is, being consistent won't get you anywhere near the WR. CKF ran a 2'57" after two attempts in front of Gantz and Yuuki and they were amazed but we know that he will never get close to a 57"1 if he keeps on running like that and not take risks.

Even CKF has said that Gantz's driving lines are close to 100% perfect. It's the only way to get the WR... to risk things. hence the umpteen force quits that we saw by 9.6 and Pika.

A bit off topic but it was damn funny seeing Takura (Lord Racing) sleeping on the floor at one point and then wide awake running Akagi UH XD

Braja
Posted: Dec 18 2007, 06:03 AM


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yeah very true for TA. but i was just using that as an explanation as to why battles aren't always exciting just cause ppl are world record holders.
Fuzz
Posted: Dec 18 2007, 05:54 PM


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Even with ppl who study boost on battles, they need to have a certain amount of confidence in their opponents skills so that they dont make alot of random mistakes and miss their timing, they would keep high caliber opponents but i guess if they meet moderate noobs they can beat them with their skills.
BDDEE@
Posted: Dec 18 2007, 07:40 PM


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does anyone have any info on this v1.5 patch yet
cuz v4 is already dead here... no one plays it because of no aura
Odie
  Posted: Dec 18 2007, 09:40 PM


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Nope. we asked the Sega rep but he didn't want to talk about it at all sleep.gif;;
toookoooldrew118
Posted: Dec 19 2007, 09:12 PM


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QUOTE (J]-[UN @ Yesterday at 3:32 AM)
boost off sucks

boost off no skill

I rather lose a boost on match instead playing crappy TA boost off matches or lose a boost off match cos i got rammed at the start

boost off is good if u were able to play leader chaser stlye. but sega would probly lose too much money.
*j*j*
Posted: Dec 19 2007, 09:27 PM


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boost off wer got fun > start up ram u n u lead all d way wit out any mistakes u win d game such a boring battle ...

boost on when every thing goes wit no rules do as u lik ... tats d battles i luv n is full of non-stop action pack battle ... grin2.gif
RB26TT
Posted: Dec 20 2007, 12:43 AM


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boost off sucks,i had a terrible blast at genting,*j*j* boost on more good hehe ^^ fun~~ure good at akina uphill,wonder how u turn that corner with high speed,
Odie
  Posted: Dec 20 2007, 04:21 AM


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QUOTE (toookoooldrew118 @ Yesterday at 9:12 PM)
boost off is good if u were able to play leader chaser stlye. but sega would probly lose too much money.

As if there is a difference as to how much money they're losing right now.
Ver. 1.5 IR is up already so it seems that Sega are about to say good riddance to those stupid tricks.
BDDEE@
Posted: Dec 20 2007, 04:30 AM


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did you get to play the test version?
cuz no ones really said so far what the physics are like and all that shit

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