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> EVANGELION BD BOX, BASED ANNO STRIKES AGAIN.
kyonpalm
  Posted: Dec 1 2014, 08:16 AM


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http://www.evangelion.co.jp/sp/ng.html

IT'S FUCKING HAPPENING.
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Nomake Wan
Posted: Dec 1 2014, 07:26 PM


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IT'S ABOUT GODDAMN TIME
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kyonpalm
  Posted: Dec 1 2014, 07:33 PM


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Taking bets on the retail for this thing. I'm thinking $1,000.
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Rudy
Posted: Dec 1 2014, 07:35 PM


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THE_HONDA_CG2
Posted: Dec 1 2014, 08:19 PM


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I'm a fan of the series and all, but I don't think $1000 will justify any blu-ray purchase of mine unless it includes about $800+ worth of goodies and extras.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Dec 2 2014, 06:28 AM


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QUOTE (THE_HONDA_CG2 @ Yesterday, 9:19 PM)
I'm a fan of the series and all, but I don't think $1000 will justify any blu-ray purchase of mine unless it includes about $800+ worth of goodies and extras.

Japanese BD prices disregard your silly American concept of value.
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Seri
Posted: Dec 2 2014, 07:13 AM


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Guys, it's Evangelion. Gainax isn't stupid, they know they can get more. $1500.
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Posted: Dec 2 2014, 08:44 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 2 hours, 15 minutes ago)
Japanese BD prices disregard your silly American concept of value.

Dohoho. Forgive me. We have yen signs for that. unamused.gif

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
kyonpalm
  Posted: Dec 2 2014, 08:45 AM


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QUOTE (Miura Seri @ 1 hour, 31 minutes ago)
Guys, it's Evangelion. Gainax isn't stupid, they know they can get more. $1500.

I'm basing my 1k on the fact that the Gurren Lagann box was $700. I am, for the record, being 100% serious when I say $1,000.
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Rudy
Posted: Dec 2 2014, 08:45 AM


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Nomake Wan
Posted: Dec 3 2014, 08:39 AM


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QUOTE (Rudy @ Yesterday, 9:45 AM)
That's totally not right...

Again, please note that the Japanese completely disregard your filthy gaijin concepts of value. I believe I've already done this once before, but let's review, shall we?

Average Eroge (New): ~9000 yen
Average Anime Bluray Boxset (13 episodes): 23000 yen
Average Anime Bluray Boxset (25 episodes): 35000 yen
Average New Film Bluray: 6000 yen

Of course, then you have what I consider to be the true value...

Average JAV (HD): 2000 yen

Why? Well it's simple. Your average JAV has like 4 hours of content for 2000 yen. Of course, then you can argue that the content is not nearly as complex or detailed as the content of the above items but meh! Meh I says!

Now of course, please do keep in mind that the US hasn't been totally exempt from ridiculous pricing either. Ignoring Aniplex's verbatim import of Japanese media pricing, let's go with an older example, shall we?

Star Trek: The Next Generation DVD Boxset: $700
Star Trek: Voyager DVD Boxset: $500

As a note, with current pricing the blurays for ST:TNG would come out to $420. Now, the difference here is that you're getting an entire season of Star Trek remastered in 1080p from scratch for $60 a pop. This is in stark contrast to Japan, where 6000 yen nets you...a few episodes of an Anime, at best? I believe the DVDs for Wangan Midnight were $60 each (and had two episodes per DVD). So while $420 is expensive, sure, it's not as expensive as you'd think. The DVD boxsets were way more expensive and were transfers from VHS masters.

Anyway, those are some quick numbers. Note I was going with MSRP on all of these, so I'm sure you can get everything here for cheaper nowadays if you tried. Doesn't change the facts, though.

This post has been edited by Nomake Wan on Dec 3 2014, 08:41 AM
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kyonpalm
  Posted: Dec 3 2014, 10:51 AM


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QUOTE (ANN)
To a Westerner, the Japanese DVD market seems horribly overpriced. With the average disc running over 7,000 (US$92) and only containing 2-4 episodes of a series, the cost of collecting a single show can easily run several hundred dollars -- more than many American fans spend in a single year.

The prices actually stem from a business practice we used to have in America, too: rental pricing. Basically, back in the dawn of the home video business, the industry was constructed in a way where "niche" releases were only meant to sell a few thousand copies, mostly to video rental shops. Prices were high (typically $89.95 in America), but video shops benefited from having a wide and semi-exclusive selection of movies that normal people would never pay for. At those prices, only a few thousand sales could mean over a million dollars of revenue. Initially, video industry people didn't think there was much of a market in selling to collectors.

But the fans proved them wrong. Otaku of all kinds (not just anime fans) started buying the videotapes and laserdiscs, and they bought them at those high prices that were intended just for video stores. There was no reason to lower it. In fact, there were a few experiments to drop the price to a more affordable amount, but that usually resulted in a slight increase in sales -- not enough to make up for the drop in revenue.

When you think about it, that makes sense. Most Japanese people live in much smaller homes, and with many more people than their Western counterparts. In most cases, it simply doesn't make sense for Japanese consumers to build a big home media library. Only the hardcore fans of a particular product will usually want to bother owning a tape or DVD, and everyone else relies on rental shops. Media is a specialty market, not a mass-market one, so prices have stayed astronomically high.

The Japanese Otaku's desire to own anime even at high prices had an unexpected effect: as the rest of the economy tanked and video stores stopped buying every new video release, the otaku kept buying pretty much everything that got released. Before long, the few thousand fans that bought anime DVDs were supporting nearly the entire budget of a show. Even as the rest of the Japanese home video industry lowered their prices to varying degrees, anime stayed at the same high price. It's simply the only way most shows can ever make a profit.
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Rudy
Posted: Dec 3 2014, 12:41 PM


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Nomake Wan
Posted: Dec 4 2014, 01:42 AM


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QUOTE (Rudy @ Yesterday, 1:41 PM)
That makes sense, I guess, but $90 an episode is a really hard pill to swallow. But how could anime only be supported by its fans. What about the profits from the tv networks, and/or sponsor money from commercials and profits from syndication/reruns? Anime can't be THAT expensive to make, can it?

And finally, what happens once ADV picks up this box set and sells it stateside? What will the price be - and how much licensing money do the creators get?

I'm not sure where you're getting your $90-an-episode figure. Even if we go with Kyonpalm's $1500 figure, that puts each episode at $57.70. At $1000 it'd be $38.46. However, regardless of the number, this is not a value you have to stomach. Keep in mind that this is the Japanese market and we have heard nothing about an international release. Unless you're planning on importing this boxset yourself and adding it to your collection despite it being entirely in Japanese, then the entire discussion is moot for you.

As to the rest of your post, however, almost all Anime has traditionally been supported by its goods. Primarily the DVD/bluray sales, yes, but also the associated goods such as OSTs, OP/ED singles, character CDs, posters, figures, etc etc etc. It's the sale of physical goods that keeps shows afloat and this is not new in any way, shape or form. I don't know when this concept started, but I do know that at least as far back as 1979 with Mobile Suit Gundam it has been a thing.

Networks, commercials and syndication are a pittance. I don't have any hard numbers for you but I do know that without the sale of physical goods a series dies. Plain and simple.

Anime can't be that expensive to make, can it?
Now I know that you are disconnected from the reality of the industry. I happen to have hard numbers for at least two Anime from back in 2007, Bamboo Blade and Toaru Majutsu no Index. Bamboo Blade was a two-cours show which apparently operated on something of a shoestring budget, costing only roughly 10,000,000 yen (SOURCE). Toaru, on the other hand, apparently cost 300,000,000 yen (!!) to produce (SOURCE).

So a shoestring budget is roughly $100,000. A blockbuster series like Toaru is $3,000,000. That's a lot of money. Now, do note that this is production from scratch. This topic is about a bluray remaster for Evangelion. Now, either they can go the Nuku Nuku/Initial D route and just upscale the original masters (which looks like absolute shit), which is super easy and super sleazy, and is essentially printing money since the cost would essentially just be media and distribution.

If, however, they're actually going back and re-shooting the cels (that is, if they have the original film still to shoot from), then that's quite a bit of cost going into essentially creating entirely new digital masters from an analog format. Done right this looks spectacular (check out the blurays for Turn A Gundam, which was mastered from 35mm film as an example), but done wrong it can look blurry or off-color. Basically, to make sure that a smash series like Evangelion gets it done right they're not going to let some scrub conversion house do it. This is gonna cost some serious dosh to get done right. As much as producing a new series? Probably not, but it will still cost a pretty penny.

And finally, you're not exactly Mr. Current Events. ADV no longer exists and hasn't for several years. As far as I'm aware it's FUNimation that holds the Evangelion rights as they're the distributor for Rebuild, but we'll see. They will likely price it somewhere between what we consider 'normal' price and what Japanese consider 'normal' price if it's localized. They still have to offset their own costs, after all--going over the digital masters and adding the English content--so while I doubt they'd charge anywhere near $1000 for the boxset it will definitely be over $100. I know this because the retail cost for Robotics;Notes, a 22-episode series, was $120. Steins;Gate--25 episodes--was $160. Now, both have dropped to $50 and $25 (!) as it's been quite a long time since they came out, but yeah.

As for how much the licensing process costs/nets, I do not have figures for that.
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kyonpalm
  Posted: Dec 4 2014, 08:54 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
Even if we go with Kyonpalm's $1500 figure ...

That was Miura Seri's figure, for the record. My bet was $1,000.

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
It's the sale of physical goods that keeps shows afloat and this is not new in any way, shape or form.

It is also for this reason we will never have Nichijou S2.
SPOILER


QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
I don't know when this concept started, but I do know that at least as far back as 1979 with Mobile Suit Gundam it has been a thing.

If soundtracks count as goods-supporting-the-series, that goes way back. Yamato had soundtrack LPs and plenty of series had records released as early as the '60s (I have a Speed Racer promotional flexi, for instance).

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
I happen to have hard numbers for at least two Anime from back in 2007, Bamboo Blade and Toaru Majutsu no Index.

I'M CAAALIIING THE STAR RISE

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
Bamboo Blade was a two-cours show which apparently operated on something of a shoestring budget, costing only roughly 10,000,000 yen (SOURCE). Toaru, on the other hand, apparently cost 300,000,000 yen (!!) to produce (SOURCE).

While "Kill Me Baby" ran on payments of pocket lint and rubber bands (AND WE STILL WON'T SEE A SECOND SEASON).

QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
If, however, they're actually going back and re-shooting the cels (that is, if they have the original film still to shoot from), then that's quite a bit of cost going into essentially creating entirely new digital masters from an analog format. Done right this looks spectacular (check out the blurays for Turn A Gundam, which was mastered from 35mm film as an example), but done wrong it can look blurry or off-color.

Another good example is the outstanding job done on Serial Experiments Lain's remaster. I compare any other remaster job to that one.

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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 6 hours, 47 minutes ago)
They will likely price it somewhere between what we consider 'normal' price and what Japanese consider 'normal' price if it's localized. They still have to offset their own costs, after all--going over the digital masters and adding the English content--so while I doubt they'd charge anywhere near $1000 for the boxset it will definitely be over $100.

I have my doubts that it'll even be brought over here. Importing (from America to Japan) is a real concern, since one could just buy an US pressing and instantly save literally hundreds. That said, it would be a massive moneymaker here, so I think they'll probably just wait some months before putting it out stateside.
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Rudy
Posted: Dec 4 2014, 01:02 PM


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This post has been edited by Rudy on Dec 4 2014, 03:22 PM
Seri
Posted: Feb 2 2015, 08:15 AM


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So remember those 1000+ estimates?

We were wrong.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Feb 2 2015, 10:21 AM


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QUOTE (Miura Seri @ 2 hours, 5 minutes ago)
So remember those 1000+ estimates?

We were wrong.

>only 38000 yen

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THE_HONDA_CG2
Posted: Feb 2 2015, 09:29 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 11:21 AM)
>only 38000 yen

http://i.imgur.com/6tcROrJ.gif

I'm feelin this. I'm feelin this very strongly. If only my paychecks were big enough to support this in addition to my rent and food costs though... crying2.gif
Rudy
Posted: Feb 3 2015, 08:36 PM


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Nomake Wan
Posted: Feb 3 2015, 10:20 PM


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QUOTE (Rudy @ 1 hour, 43 minutes ago)
If it offered any form of English language I'd be blowing my wad on this instead of box mods and car parts.

Seriously.

It's not unheard of for established DVD series to include English dubs when released on bluray in Japan (Utawarerumono, for instance, was dual-audio), but the Gainax page doesn't list specifications for the audio/video of the boxsets so we have no way of knowing just yet.

I did just notice that the bluray set includes a bonus 5.1ch master of the 22-track OST. That's...impressive.
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Falbere
Posted: Feb 3 2015, 10:24 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 4 minutes, 39 seconds ago)
It's not unheard of for established DVD series to include English dubs when released on bluray in Japan (Utawarerumono, for instance, was dual-audio), but the Gainax page doesn't list specifications for the audio/video of the boxsets so we have no way of knowing just yet.gu

It is not very often to have dual-audio though. most of them is just Japanese, some of them english subbed, right?
Nomake Wan
Posted: Feb 3 2015, 11:00 PM


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QUOTE (Falbere @ 35 minutes, 39 seconds ago)
It is not very often to have dual-audio though. most of them is just Japanese, some of them english subbed, right?

It's more common to feature a dub than it is to feature a sub if I'm recalling correctly.
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kyonpalm
  Posted: Aug 27 2015, 10:46 AM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ Dec 1 2014, 12:16 PM)
http://i.minus.com/iwQdX5i5y9Tth.jpg

http://www.evangelion.co.jp/sp/ng.html

IT'S FUCKING HAPPENING.

UPDATE: IT'S STILL FUCKING HAPPENING.

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Now the wait for rips.
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xiao
Posted: Aug 27 2015, 11:27 AM


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QUOTE (kyonpalm @ 40 minutes, 3 seconds ago)
http://i2.minus.com/ieOxc3Oi2v13i.png

hahaha... oh Shinji, even in high-def it still doesn't count. XD

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