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> Limited Slip Differential discussion
Toshi
Posted: Jul 12 2009, 02:52 AM


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all about welded on the cheap. 2 way for competition
Yoshida Seiji
Posted: Jul 12 2009, 02:46 PM


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Welded is lame. If you are welding a diff to drift, then quit being such a cheap f**k.

If you are too cheap to buy a diff, you seriously don't need to drift. 'Cause it's not a poor man's sport at all.
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Jul 13 2009, 11:11 AM


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mpg comptetition is a poor man's sport... try it out tongue.gif
sideways
Posted: Jul 14 2009, 12:23 AM


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QUOTE (Yoshida Seiji @ Jul 12 2009, 03:46 PM)
Welded is lame. If you are welding a diff to drift, then quit being such a cheap f**k.

If you are too cheap to buy a diff, you seriously don't need to drift. 'Cause it's not a poor man's sport at all.

But you sure as hell can have some god damn good fun on a budget. Its not always about competition.
Yoshida Seiji
Posted: Jul 14 2009, 04:29 AM


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It does more harm than good. It's just gonna f**k your transmission sooner or later and then you are paying more money.

Just fork out the cash, but a real diff. Done.
Mr. Shine
Posted: Jul 14 2009, 12:50 PM


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QUOTE (Yoshida Seiji @ 8 hours, 20 minutes ago)
Just fork out the cash, but a real diff. Done.

Alternative option is to buy a factory viscous and shim it up nice and tight, works a treat.
sideways
Posted: Jul 16 2009, 09:59 PM


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QUOTE (Yoshida Seiji @ Jul 14 2009, 05:29 AM)
It does more harm than good. It's just gonna f**k your transmission sooner or later and then you are paying more money.

Just fork out the cash, but a real diff. Done.

Does more harm than good? Says who? You? I can vouch for a small handfull of people who have used lincoln lockers successfully, in drifting, 1/4 mile, and even racing. Mind you I totaly agree, a proper lsd is night and day difference in comparision; But you can still do surprisingly good on a welded diff.

Some people just dont care, its one thing to drop 20 bucks into a shit car and go have some fun, its another to go toss in half a grand or more for something remotely decent. Just do what suits you best and fits within your budget and measure if the sacrafice is worth it to you.

As for the transmission thing, while im far from saying it cant happen- But in my experiences, Ive never seen a transmission fail because of a welded diff. Ive known a handfull of people whove used them for their own budget drift cars (and 2 people who raced theirs), and heavily considered it myself for my z as a hold my over until i can afford a proper lsd. Free < Hundreds of dollars. That and ive got a spare diff, various parts, and dont mind using a wrench.

This post has been edited by sideways on Jul 16 2009, 10:01 PM
Yoshida Seiji
Posted: Jul 17 2009, 04:47 AM


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Extra stress on the drive train, it's not good for the transmission.

Also have you even seen a welded diff break? Shit ain't pretty, especially if you're just cruising down the highway or something.
backalleyracer
Posted: Jul 17 2009, 07:25 AM


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i can also say, from watching countless friends who have welded their diff's it is worth it for the shear fun of it

wink2.gif
RDvil
Posted: Jan 25 2010, 10:26 AM


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QUOTE (Mr. Shine @ Jul 14 2009, 12:50 PM)
Alternative option is to buy a factory viscous and shim it up nice and tight, works a treat.

Totally agree with this one. They're suprisingly good when set up right - grips like a plated, smoothly like a torsen. Don't know how much power/abuse they can take though.

And as for the issue of open differential's vulnerability, most of them only have one set of pinion gears - in case of a wheelspin, all the power goes to those two small gears. That doesn't sound good, especially if you know how small they really are. LSD:s on the other hand have more metal transferring the power - ZF plate-style diff for instance has two sets of pinions, plus of course the plates which eventually pick up. So drifting with an open diff is not gonna last - even welding's a better option(if done right).
oneroundflare
Posted: May 4 2010, 02:12 AM


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welded diff all the way!! cheap and just have fun. fear2.gif sideways is true on that comment. Just do what suits you best and fits within your budget and measure if the sacrafice is worth it to you.
Alex
Posted: May 20 2010, 07:12 PM


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Found a fun 50's Chevy dealership instructional video explaining how a differential gear works.
YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F40ZBDAG8-o&feature=related )

I really learned from this video. Hopefully others will too. Also makes me want to go build my own demo model!
Möbius
Posted: May 21 2010, 06:34 AM


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That's one of my favorite instructional videos. smile.gif
stormfox
Posted: May 21 2010, 08:20 AM


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Nice video~ suprisingly how simple they are able to make it sound!
Sensation!
Posted: May 21 2010, 09:20 PM


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sideways showed me that vid about 5-6 months ago. it was a great way to learn how the open diff works. the real thing was about 10 minutes long, though most of it was the motorcycle show.

vid is circa 1939 or so
Alex
Posted: May 21 2010, 10:09 PM


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QUOTE (Sensation! @ 48 minutes, 49 seconds ago)
sideways showed me that vid about 5-6 months ago. it was a great way to learn how the open diff works. the real thing was about 10 minutes long, though most of it was the motorcycle show.

vid is circa 1939 or so

Yeah, I opted for the trimmed down version that focuses on the educational bits. That's a good bit older than I was guessing!
Sensation!
Posted: May 22 2010, 02:48 AM


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actually i was wrong, it says its from 1937 lol

YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI )


I LOVED the bit about the driveshaft haha
impreza0109
Posted: May 23 2010, 12:50 AM


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i really learned much from the two vids. thanks... =)
GokuFc
Posted: Feb 15 2011, 09:58 AM


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i am gona share some liks for you because im too bored to write them down

Lsd 1-1.5-2.0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

Torsen lsd(best for drift=in my opinion)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen

and wthey are also the

VISCO or Synchro every company calls them as they like

thats basicaly an lsd with disk which has some scratch on them and for oil they have some kind of a silikon witch after it hits from the diferent movement of the two it beames one but usualy they are using them on an awd
Cubits
Posted: Feb 15 2011, 09:43 PM


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You are just repeating, badly, things that have already been covered in more detail by people with actual experience.

Have you drifted much with a torsen? While it is very possible, most/all people tend to prefer either a clutch-pack style diff or a viscous unit, as they are very easy to shim for preload, and still have full transmission with a wheel in the air. I haven't heard of any one using a torsen diff to drift.

I personally think torsen/quaife differentials are brilliant things, i have one in my 205 and will probably put one in my mr2 (which currently has as viscous). Not because they're any good at drifting, but because they maximise the available grip in a wide range of situations and have instantaneous operation (because they don't operate on wheelspeed difference). Fitted to a fwd, they actually "push" the car around the turn when the throttle is applied. It's an odd feeling, but affords surprising exit grip.

On very rough surfaces i wouldn't have one in a fwd as the torque steer can become quite fierce (which is why clutch lsds are still very popular in fwd rally cars, despite their hideous shortcomings), but i don't tend drive on that kind of surface too much.

Viscous LSD's are alright. They don't tend to wear out, and they provide locking (eventually). If my car had originally been specced with a clutch pack diff, there wouldn't be any clutch left by now (and a rebuild is a huge pita because of these transaxles!), but the viscous diff still works as well as a new one.

This post has been edited by Cubits on Feb 15 2011, 09:45 PM
GokuFc
  Posted: Feb 15 2011, 11:39 PM


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QUOTE (Cubits @ 1 hour, 56 minutes ago)
You are just repeating, badly, things that have already been covered in more detail by people with actual experience.

Have you drifted much with a torsen? While it is very possible, most/all people tend to prefer either a clutch-pack style diff or a viscous unit, as they are very easy to shim for preload, and still have full transmission with a wheel in the air. I haven't heard of any one using a torsen diff to drift.

I personally think torsen/quaife differentials are brilliant things, i have one in my 205 and will probably put one in my mr2 (which currently has as viscous). Not because they're any good at drifting, but because they maximise the available grip in a wide range of situations and have instantaneous operation (because they don't operate on wheelspeed difference). Fitted to a fwd, they actually "push" the car around the turn when the throttle is applied. It's an odd feeling, but affords surprising exit grip.

On very rough surfaces i wouldn't have one in a fwd as the torque steer can become quite fierce (which is why clutch lsds are still very popular in fwd rally cars, despite their hideous shortcomings), but i don't tend drive on that kind of surface too much.

Viscous LSD's are alright. They don't tend to wear out, and they provide locking (eventually). If my car had originally been specced with a clutch pack diff, there wouldn't be any clutch left by now (and a rebuild is a huge pita because of these transaxles!), but the viscous diff still works as well as a new one.

well you got a point there i havent try a torsen i have only try an lsd and a normal diferential but i think the torsen is more efected for drift!visco is slow at making that and lsd has to be reapaired after a while, while torsen do that and for repair it just ask you for some oil to replace!
and i have a question why did you feet a torsen on a fwd thats dangerous i guess?
Did you feet it in front?

my theory is

torsen and lsd for drift

visco for a awd but not a awd subaru or evo or something like those to
visco must be using on something for example the bmw x5 series or the lada niva!
i mean torsen can do the work in an instand while lsd needs to slide some torgue from one wheel to another to work!
but for example lancia integrale had 2 or 3 diferentials i dont rememeber exactly i am gona checked that out later and tell you what the car had on back those days!
and its the same think subaru and evo has this days maybe not the exact diferential types but they share the same theory!

Edit:
sory if i repeat anything i didnt read all pages before i posted thats why i have add the links in case someone want them!

This post has been edited by GokuFc on Feb 15 2011, 11:41 PM
Spaz
Posted: Feb 16 2011, 05:24 AM


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Not sure on the Subaru, but the Evo uses a viscous center diff, helical front, and clutch-type rear.
MattW
Posted: Feb 16 2011, 08:57 AM


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QUOTE (GokuFc @ 9 hours, 17 minutes ago)
well you got a point there i havent try a torsen i have only try an lsd and a normal diferential but i think the torsen is more efected for drift!visco is slow at making that and lsd has to be reapaired after a while, while torsen do that and for repair it just ask you for some oil to replace!
and i have a question why did you feet a torsen on a fwd thats dangerous i guess?
Did you feet it in front?

my theory is

torsen and lsd for drift

visco for a awd but not a awd subaru or evo or something like those to
visco must be using on something for example the bmw x5 series or the lada niva!
i mean torsen can do the work in an instand while lsd needs to slide some torgue from one wheel to another to work!
but for example lancia integrale had 2 or 3 diferentials i dont rememeber exactly i am gona checked that out later and tell you what the car had on back those days!
and its the same think subaru and evo has this days maybe not the exact diferential types but they share the same theory!

Edit:
sory if i repeat anything i didnt read all pages before i posted thats why i have add the links in case someone want them!

There's different kinds of Limited Slip Diffs, you know.
GokuFc
Posted: Feb 16 2011, 10:44 PM


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QUOTE (MattW @ Today, 8:57 AM)
There's different kinds of Limited Slip Diffs, you know.

yes i know,but i dont know good english to explain you!
Cubits
Posted: Feb 16 2011, 11:14 PM


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Where you said lsd you meant clutch pack lsd, both of you.

Viscous diffs are used for drifting all the time by lower-budget drivers (who have cars that come with them). You just double the preload shim thickness and the diff is pretty much welded (we had three people swinging on a bar and it wouldn't turn!). It's not pretty, but it is effective and sturdy! It's also much less likely to explode than an actual welded diff. tongue.gif

They're also becoming increasingly popular for their longevity and dynamic adjustability. Throw a hydraulic pump onto the casing and you can have a diff with the driveability of an open diff and the locking of a posidrive (incidentally). BMW uses this succesfully in the back end of m3's, as does jag.

Haldex famously uses this principle for their centre differentials. I also believe that the evo and post '06 subaru's DCCD use hydraulic/viscous diffs in the centre.

Ferrari's e-diff and mitsubishi's AYC are hydraulically actuated clutch-pack diffs.

And again, torsen's aren't the best idea for drifting. Not only are they a bit useless if the inside wheel lifts when used on a bouncy-bouncy drift car, but because they are entirely gear-driven they do have the potential to explode when met with a large amount of differential torque (as you tend to find on wide-tyred, 600hp turbocharged cars). Quaife had a bit of a problem with this in the past.

This post has been edited by Cubits on Feb 16 2011, 11:21 PM

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