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> supercharged vs turbocharged
Raiden
  Posted: Jun 28 2003, 03:38 AM


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hey people

pretty new here...just wondering what are the advantages and disadvantages to superchargers and turbochargers?

|[ .tainted. ]|
Posted: Jun 28 2003, 08:46 AM


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is your question similar to this?
click here
Indecisive
Posted: Jun 28 2003, 02:59 PM


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actually..if anybody wants to help this guy out..just post here. this is a very good technical question. I'll pin it.
TRD-hachi-roku
Posted: Jun 28 2003, 05:54 PM


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super charger would be better for sohc engines that haf lower engine revs
and turbo would be a better set up on dohc engines as engine revs can go higher
but super chargers literally no lag, and turbo has lag

super chargers takes power away from engine to power itself
turbo takes power from exhaust gas and not engine

thats about all i kno about them, maybe more but cant think of it right now
Tai-Mai-Shu
Posted: Jun 28 2003, 07:06 PM


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From all I know

Superchargers are great usually for big V engine block applications because of lack of room in the comparment. Superchargers are great for constant power in the powerband. They also have no lag so it's power is quick for low-end.

However, from what I heard superchargers also wear out quicker and don't create as much psi boost as do turbos do . But companies like comptech are damn close to creating tremendous amount of power.

Turbos are great for high end power and work well with the japanese inline motors. They lack low end power but make up for it high end rpms. However, there are many ways to reduce low end power loss (ball-bearing turbos, fine tuning the A/R ratio, twin turboing) to reduce lag in lower rpms. Turbos can create immense amount of power depending on it's engine tuning and turbo size. But the bigger the turbo, the longer it takes to kick in the power band.

Turbos are run by the flow of exhaust that powers the turbine and compressor

Superchargers I believe are ran by the rotational movement of the crankshaft(?) I forgot if it was the crankshaft or the camshaft pulley.

i'm gonna put this in bold

THERE ARE ALOT OF THINGS IN THIS POST THAT I AM UNSURE ABOUT. PLEASE DO NOT KILL ME IF I MAKE A FEW MISTAKES. I AM HERE TO LEARN

thank you. tongue.gif
Raiden
  Posted: Jun 28 2003, 10:36 PM


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hey thanx everyone...cleared me up on the subject biggrin.gif
Indecisive
Posted: Jun 28 2003, 11:56 PM


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oh is THAT the point of a twin turbo?? for high and low end rpm applications?? I didn't know that....heh kool
S15-guy
Posted: Jun 29 2003, 12:51 AM


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I thought it was because two smaller turbo's spooled quicker than a big fat one, could be wrong though, please correct me if I am
Tai-Mai-Shu
Posted: Jun 29 2003, 08:17 AM


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Naw, S-15 is right. People get mixed up because people think TWIN TURBOS are Twin NORMAL sized turbos. While really there just both twin smaller turbos.

They're two ways at looking at it. Theres sequential twin turbos and..uh..forgot the other one. But anyway i'm too lazy to explain, they just activate at lower rpms than normal turbos.
TRD-hachi-roku
Posted: Jul 1 2003, 12:56 AM


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i thought twin turbos was one small turbo adn one big one, so the small one can spool up wen theres less exhaust gas, while the big one spools up after enouf exhaust has build up...then the small ones stops, or thats what i read from this one page...correct me if im wrong, cuz i think that this is jus one type of twin turbo, there are dozens of different twin turbo set ups, but the principal of twin turbo-ing is to reduce lag, so u can haf power through out the power band...plz do correc me if im wrong, but dun kill...
Raiden
  Posted: Jul 1 2003, 03:42 AM


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as trd-hachi roku said, there are a few different set ups of twin turbos. theres the one where a smaller turbo spins up in front, generating quick power whilst the bigger one takes it time to spin up, generating more power at high rpms. the other type i've heard of is just two same sized turbos spinning up to generate the same amount of power as a big one only cutting down on the lag time

-think that should be about right ^^*
Wheels84ss
Posted: Jul 2 2003, 05:59 PM


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Ok just as an aside here. No accesory runs off your cam gear of pulley. They run off the crank. Manufacturers don't use the cam because you run the risk of the cam jumping time and doing serious damage to your engine.

The only things run off your cam besides your valvetrain is your distributor and in old V-8's your fuel pump. But they run off special lobes and gears on the cam itself not the pulley.

Just firgured it might be useful information.
Tai-Mai-Shu
Posted: Jul 2 2003, 06:46 PM


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QUOTE (Wheels84ss @ Jul 2 2003, 05:50 PM)
Ok just as an aside here. No accesory runs off your cam gear of pulley. They run off the crank. Manufacturers don't use the cam because you run the risk of the cam jumping time and doing serious damage to your engine.

The only things run off your cam besides your valvetrain is your distributor and in old V-8's your fuel pump. But they run off special lobes and gears on the cam itself not the pulley.

Just firgured it might be useful information.

whoops. My bad. Don't know much about superchargers, I've always been accustomed to turbos and how they work instead.
Toshi
Posted: Jul 3 2003, 12:37 AM


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the way i see it supercharger is less power no lag...turbo more power with lag...personally more power is worth it adn turbo lag isnt that bad
Gearhead
Posted: Jul 3 2003, 02:57 PM


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I see there's some confusion on twin turbo setups. Most setups are designed to eliminate lag, using different methods.

A 'normal' twin setup, like on the Z32 300ZX and R32-34 Skyline GT-R use two turbos of the same size that spool independently, and ideally at the same time. The rationale is that the two turbos will spool up faster together than a large turbo.

Next are sequential twin turbo systems. There are two different types I have seen so far.
The JZA80 Supra uses a sequential system with two turbos of the same size. One turbo will spool for low boost. The second turbo will spool later, and both turbos provide high boost.

The FD3S RX-7 uses a sequential system with a smaller turbo for low boost, and a bigger turbo that kicks in later to provide higher boost levels.
TRD-hachi-roku
Posted: Jul 5 2003, 10:02 PM


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i would say that super chargers are good for pplz that want power through out the power band, and turbo for those who doesnt mind teh lag, but i prefer turbo, jus cuz itz turbo, lolz
Tai-Mai-Shu
Posted: Jul 6 2003, 09:47 AM


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Well we could also wonder about which one is suitable for daily driving.
Vash Stampede
Posted: Jul 6 2003, 06:19 PM


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The easiest way to figure out what is best for your engine ,is to take your power curves from a dyno ( tq / hp) now compare them to a tq/hp chart for various SC and turbos..

chances are you'll see one of two things, one curve will match up with a SC or turbo and one one won't ... now decide what you want to gain from forced induction? all out HP regardless of street performance or a well rounded street machine with power everywhere..

eg;1 a standard B16 vetec, has HP peaking above 2/3 power range, with a sharp short peak in torque, if you want to make a very streetable B16 then you use the FI device that is the opposite of the power graph for the B16, which would be a SC, a supercharger is a fixed ratio based on the gearing and pulley size attached to the belt system. the SC has very good low end power trailing off at the top end where the pulley ratio can't keep up with the volume of flow required to keep max boost. Putting a larger pulley on will rob more low end tq from the engine so your limited on how far you can push . If you want all out power and don't care about the bottom end. then go with a device that matches your curves, the B16 match is the turbo charger, it will add to the peak HP and peak TQ but rob low end power due to pack pressure and spool up delay.

take a ford zetec, the 2.0L in a ZTS, zx2, zx3,zx5, 4 cyl cougar and countour in north american and in the Ka, puma, fiesta in 1.3 ,1.5 and 1.7 L formats overseas. the zetec is a very stroked 4 cylinder producting more torque at 2300 rpm then a B18C5 can at 5500 rpm, however it is very low on HP in comparison, lower then a B16 vetec's.. adding a supercharger would give you more low end boost, and but very little top end, given the lack of hp in the zetec the SC would be the reverse of what you'd want, too much torque at the low end oes not help a car that already breaks loose in 1 to 3 becuse of it. however becuse of the missing top end Hp a turbo is what is needed to add in the hp it needs. with the torque at the bottom end and normal hp there the turbo will spool up and increase the hp output up top where a turbo works best.

this is a very basic conceptualizeation for those looking to figure out what's for them.
TRD-hachi-roku
Posted: Jul 7 2003, 12:12 AM


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thanks vash...that was so clear...i guess u really haf to kno the engine better to decide whether to sc or turbo charge it...thanks again...i learn something new everyday
Toshi
Posted: Aug 9 2003, 01:41 AM


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yup good explanation!
jlo mein
Posted: Aug 21 2003, 12:48 PM


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this is just hearsay from friends, so don't take my word for it, but this is what i have been told:

Superchargers work on ram air, while turbos work on exhaust. Because super's are using air from outside being sucked into it, it is bringing cold air into the engine. A turbo uses exhaust air, which is extremely hot, and puts that into the engine.

They say a Super is better for your engine (in terms of engine longevity), because it is blowing cold air, while a turbo will put more stress on your engine as it uses hot air.

I really have no idea about this stuff, and again this is just stuff i heard, so feel free to bash it if its wrong. smile.gif
S15-guy
Posted: Aug 21 2003, 04:52 PM


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the turbo does not put the exhaust air back into the engine, it uses the exhaust air to drive a compressor to force fresh air into your engine.

not bashing, we are all hear to learn!

*edit* just thought i would throw in a few pics I stole from the prestige motorsport website http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/

user posted image

user posted image

jlo mein
Posted: Aug 24 2003, 12:12 AM


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hey cool you learn something new everyday. smile.gif

another dumb question: are intercoolers only for turbo's? or can you use them for supers or NA engines?
S15-guy
Posted: Aug 24 2003, 11:38 AM


dampachi!
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you cant use an intercooler on an NA engine, the intercooler is there because after the air is compressed by the turbo (or superchager) it is MUCH hotter, which hurts performance (the colder the air, the more dense it is, therefore it burns better) , so the air runs though the intercooler to cool it down before it enters the engine.

hope that helped!
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Posted: Aug 24 2003, 01:01 PM


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can any car be equiped with a turbo? (for exemple : Honda Accord 97, cause it's my mom car, and it will be mine in a year or 2 biggrin.gif)

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