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APX | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 12:19 AM | ||
Join the Empire today! Or die, rebel scum! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,455 Member No.: 1,473 Joined: Mar 18th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
Read more here! What's your thoughts/opinions about this? It's a mixed bag mostly for people, they want them to open it up to possibly help prevent future terrorist attacks on the states, but this also means the FBI/Government can hack into your phone at anytime and look over your activity if this battle loses for apple. The news have been playing this almost every half hour or so once I came home. Sorta reminds me of the whole bush presidency and the new acts that went on spying on possible terrorists, everybody hated that shit. | ||
Tessou | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 03:04 AM |
More NEGATIVE than a black hole Group: ADMINISTRATOR Posts: 19,345 Member No.: 12,263 Joined: Sep 12th 2005 Location: Update Profile | It's double edged. Always has been. NSA could benefit vastly from mass intelligence gathering, but that comes with the caveat of having access to millions of people's data. The question was asked during the shooting: "could NSA/FBI/CIA have prevented this if it was legal?" Enjoy answering that one. We failed to answer adequately enough, because it's difficult to sell the public on "it's for your fucking safety" when they're pissed off that we might have been looking at their banal goddamn sexts on their phone. PROTIP: Didn't happen, but thanks for caring. |
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xiao | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 04:10 AM |
moon bunny Group: XIAO Posts: 5,735 Member No.: 13,323 Joined: Oct 4th 2005 Location: Update Profile | Government should worry about giving free 600 dollar phones to everyone, and stop wasting money on stupid junk like criminal's sex-chats as Tess mentioned. Phone companies should stop worrying about the government and start making non-laggy phones that don't suck because of all the preinstalled bloatware that grinds your phone to a screeching bleep. Both parties suck... let's put those hands together and make something that doesn't; like Dolph Lundgren. |
Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 08:19 AM |
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock | This is the easiest thing to answer ever, I don't know what Tessou's problem is. Ready? There is no such thing as "just a backdoor that only the ____ can use with a court order" to encryption. Period. If you insert an intentional flaw into encryption it ceases to be effective encryption. It begins to be a way for anyone else to use the same backdoor. So either you have effective encryption or you do not. I, personally, am on the side of effective encryption. Anyone on the side of a backdoor either has no understanding of the technology whatsoever or doesn't want encryption. |
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APX | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 08:40 AM |
Join the Empire today! Or die, rebel scum! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,455 Member No.: 1,473 Joined: Mar 18th 2004 Location: Update Profile | Also begs to think about this: What happens when apple is forced to break it and hackers from other countries jump in on it? |
Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 09:23 AM |
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock | That's the whole point. There is no such thing as a my-use-only backdoor to encryption. There is only flawed encryption and flawless encryption. [ Post made via Mobile Device ] |
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APX | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 09:46 AM |
Join the Empire today! Or die, rebel scum! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,455 Member No.: 1,473 Joined: Mar 18th 2004 Location: Update Profile | Looks like android is backing apple up on this. I'm sure this will be a hot topic for the candidates. |
Tessou | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 01:36 PM | ||
More NEGATIVE than a black hole Group: ADMINISTRATOR Posts: 19,345 Member No.: 12,263 Joined: Sep 12th 2005 Location: Update Profile |
You're looking it from a functional "how do they do it?" perspective. I'm looking at it as a moral compass quandary, as this has quickly become a political fulcrum in the national media. We're seeing it from different perspectives, that's all. HOW THEY DO IT is unimportant to my question. We used to have agreements with manufacturers and developers in the years of the Patriot Act that allowed this shit all the time. I didn't care how they did it, I just cared that they worked, because it meant I and everybody else at GRSOC could do our jobs. I've detailed a few times why the Patriot Act was good for intelligence. Thanks to Snowden, the media was able to take the ball he threw and turn it into a hypothetical slippery slope argument to strike fear into the public of a worst case scenario that literally never happened in the history of the Patriot Act. This post has been edited by Tessou on Feb 18 2016, 01:58 PM | ||
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RalliKai | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 04:16 PM |
IDW Goldmember Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,164 Member No.: 3,607 Joined: Oct 9th 2004 Location: Update Profile | Why not simply give the phone to Apple and have them unlock the information? Apple provides the data back to the FBI/NSA and does whatever to the phone afterwards (incinerate it, send it to space, whatever). Frankly, I'm more on Tessou's side of this argument. |
Tessou | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 04:41 PM |
More NEGATIVE than a black hole Group: ADMINISTRATOR Posts: 19,345 Member No.: 12,263 Joined: Sep 12th 2005 Location: Update Profile | Argument against Apple, or the nonexistent argument I have with N1? |
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Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 06:33 PM | ||
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock |
Apple can't magically make the encryption go away. They designed it properly. What the FBI wants is for them to make a custom OS that can be flashed to the phone to bypass it. The problem being that if they make such a thing, well...that's the end of it. Apple used to comply with requests before encryption was default, but now that it is they're rightfully putting their foot down. Some bad people use encryption, so we should ban it? Some bad people use computers, so we should ban them? Some bad people use the Internet, so we should ban it? Some bad people use smartphones, so we should ban them? Some bad people use guns, so we should ban them? Some bad people drive cars, so we should ban them? Some bad people use knives, so we should ban them? This 'argument' is silly. I understand Tessou coming at it from a "just because we can [use encryption] doesn't mean we should" angle rather than the technical angle that I did, but my understanding of his angle does nothing to change my stance. [ Post made via Mobile Device ] | ||
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RalliKai | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 09:16 PM | ||
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It was in regard to the benefit bulk collection brings to our intelligence gathering capabilities. I wasn't familiar with iOS encryption standards outside of Apple switching to AES but having done some more research on it, I see what N1 is talking about. This post has been edited by RalliKai on Feb 18 2016, 09:17 PM | ||
Perry | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 09:21 PM |
Like an eagle! Group: SITE OWNER Posts: 8,014 Member No.: 1 Joined: Sep 15th 2002 Location: San Leandro, California | I am really frustrated at the ignorance displayed by the people who don't understand the technical aspect of such software. IT DOESN'T EXIST. There is no "just give it to Apple and they can just unlock this phone" There is no algorithm in place to circumvent their own OS. You know you can set it so after three wrong attempts and all the data in the phone can be erased? Yeah, bruth force is out. The iPhone 5C that FBI wants unlocked is no different than millions of the other iPhones out there. Creating a software to circumvent the lock for only one phone is a ridiculous proposition. Once the algorithm to circumvent the lock is out, there is no way to stop people from reverse engineer it. And it will be a matter of time before every device can be unlocked. You might as well ask Apple to close down their business. |
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Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 18 2016, 10:19 PM |
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock | Yeah, what they want done is a new OS that can be flashed without wiping the phone, one that isn't vulnerable to brute-force attacks against the passcode. But if you can flash an OS without wiping the phone, what's stopping you from just flashing an OS that automatically unlocks whatever phone it's flashed onto? If it can be done, anyone can do it with enough effort. |
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xiao | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 12:44 AM |
moon bunny Group: XIAO Posts: 5,735 Member No.: 13,323 Joined: Oct 4th 2005 Location: Update Profile | This might require a bit of social engineering from Apple's PR department. Namely erasing the whole phone and telling the FBI-monkeys at the Numb3rs Lab that... "- oops! We accidentally erased the phone, tee-hee; Even if we were to create such a self-righteously suicidal algorithm, and impart the syntax upon your engineers to the detriment of our own finances... - well, all the information's gone-- erased, vanished, dissolved and irrecoverably, intangibly, and ultimately insidiously elapsed. - Move along Female Body Inspectors, information warfare is a slippery business. Oh, and one more thing FooBees; nobody better lay a finger on my butterfinger." This post has been edited by xiao on Feb 19 2016, 01:05 AM |
RalliKai | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 07:07 AM | ||
IDW Goldmember Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,164 Member No.: 3,607 Joined: Oct 9th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
The vast majority of people out there don't understand security beyond creating and inputting a password, let alone explaining something like symmetric key encryption or brute-force attack. I realize I should have studied more on what Apple has been doing in data security before jumping into the pool with that question. | ||
Tessou | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 08:14 AM | ||
More NEGATIVE than a black hole Group: ADMINISTRATOR Posts: 19,345 Member No.: 12,263 Joined: Sep 12th 2005 Location: Update Profile |
Please bear my children. If I could assign gold stars to posts, this would be one of them. | ||
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APX | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 08:45 AM | ||
Join the Empire today! Or die, rebel scum! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,455 Member No.: 1,473 Joined: Mar 18th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
John McAfee say's he'll do it for free. EEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Not sure how I feel about this. | ||
Tessou | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 01:35 PM |
More NEGATIVE than a black hole Group: ADMINISTRATOR Posts: 19,345 Member No.: 12,263 Joined: Sep 12th 2005 Location: Update Profile | My issue with McAfee's statement is that he's using the typical "slippery slope" argument to fear-shame people into rallying behind him. He sounds a lot like a Fox News anchor. "IT WILL BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF AMERICA!" Shuuuuuut the fuck up. America didn't explode under the Patriot Act. It won't end if Apple actually pulls their pants down and accepts the FBI's big black dick. It will set a bad precedent, but it's not going to be the flashpoint that kills the country and the people's trust in the government entirely. Let the GOP do that. Not Apple. |
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207 | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 05:46 PM |
Hiretsuna rōjin Group: Advanced Members Posts: 6,779 Member No.: 16,670 Joined: Mar 16th 2006 Location: Montreal | i honestly dont mind the FBI handing the phones to apple so apple themselves can unlock the data and pass it off to the FBI. in this case apple will keep any program to get into the phones as propriety information and simply only pass along the data stored on the phone to the FBI. apple gets to keep the access platform to locked phones and the FBI gets the info. when it comes to crimes, they authorities need access to the info locked on the phones. they just need to come to a compromise where the phone companies keep their proprietary access programs while protecting the other customers' data while passing off any pertinent info needed to investigate crimes to the proper authorities. it does allow the possibility to get into the phones through reverse engineering should unscrupulous people figure out what Apple does to get into the locked phones. every technology has a positive and negative downsides to it This post has been edited by 207 on Feb 19 2016, 05:47 PM |
xiao | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 07:05 PM |
moon bunny Group: XIAO Posts: 5,735 Member No.: 13,323 Joined: Oct 4th 2005 Location: Update Profile | Image size reduced, original size: 1600 x 1050. Click here to view the image in its original dimension. Awwwwwwwwww shiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee-- SONN!!11! |
Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 07:06 PM | ||
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock |
He also says he'll use 'social engineering' to do it. Last I checked the only people you could socially engineer to unlock the phone are both dead. McAfee has been off his rocker for a long time now. He's talking huge but he doesn't have the ability to back it up. [ Post made via Mobile Device ] | ||
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xiao | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 07:17 PM | ||
moon bunny Group: XIAO Posts: 5,735 Member No.: 13,323 Joined: Oct 4th 2005 Location: Update Profile |
Why's he running for office, did he spend all his money on TrueCrypt & Blow... ?? Quite unusual for a tech-tycoon to get into politics; Gates has his charities and stuff, but programmers are usually have no need to spearhead a campaign. I mean Neo was The One, but he went about it a totally different route~ let the congressmen/cabinet/lawyer types run imo. | ||
APX | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 09:45 PM | ||||
Join the Empire today! Or die, rebel scum! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 13,455 Member No.: 1,473 Joined: Mar 18th 2004 Location: Update Profile | I'm liking the new faces chime in on this topic, just wished more would rather than boost up the view count.
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Nomake Wan | Posted: Feb 19 2016, 10:16 PM |
ShiMACHaze Group: Advanced Members Posts: 19,542 Member No.: 5,394 Joined: Feb 5th 2005 Location: Drydock | Government agencies being utterly fucking useless? Who knew!? |
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