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Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Technical Discussion > The New Theory on FF Drifting.


Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 01:52 PM
Well as a matter of fact FF drifting is possible. Drifting a FF takes a very very skilled drifter because it takes advanced techniques to drift a FF. Most people dont drift with a FF because of the difficulties that lie ahead, so they stick with thier rather easyier FR drifitng cars. But FF is possible its a matter of using your brake and gas to hold the drift and regain control in the end of the drift. To Drift a FF you are probably skilled. You may call it "ass dragging" but in all actuality you are drifting. Sliding and drifting are two diffrent things. And if you get the meanings that relate to a car drift you will see that a FF car falls right in the Drift catagorey. I look for a while for imformation on this and i found it. The fact that you people let Karasac tell you thiers no such thing as drifitng and you all just followed him and said thier "is no FF drifitng", well iI hate to brake it to you, but your wrong. So all you FF drivers out thier keep practicing, remmeber dont use your E-Brake because using that will not be a drift. You must learn to initiate it with the foot brake. The best way to drift your FF is the drift at the Exit of a corner. Your car my slow down dramaticlly if your line isnt prefect if you try to apex the corner. But if you want to have fun and dont care about the race by all means drift the hell out of that corner.


Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 02:56 PM
Here's a post from karasac a while back talking about how FF arent real sports car.

QUOTE
i disagree, if that were the case then y is it that most "real" sports cars r FR? FF suffer from severe understeer.


Well I hate to brake it to you Big guy but, well, alot of rally cars are FF cars, and the fact that they almost have to drift a corner shows that FF can drift. Another fact that i thought you whould like to hear. ANd if you say that iam a liar here is the 1993 Honda Prelude (a year older than my brothers) ralley car.
user posted image

Here is another picture of a FF
user posted image

I hope this proves to you that FFs can drift. If it still dosent change your mind i will continue to try to convince you that it is possible to drift a FF. The fact that you guys go to people who ask who to drift a FF and you you tell them "YOU CANT DRIFT A FF" or "HAVENT WE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT YOU CANT DRIFT A FF STUPI" ive heard these exact words. I just want to say that the people who said that and didnt even look to see if it was possible, go try something new and stop following what other people say. I think that the fact that Karasac said it wasnt possible you guys just doubted it right thier. Oh and before you say that its impossible to initialte the drift without the e-brake, its not my brother has accomplish doing it with the foot brake. Thats all i have to say, I will be waiting for you replies and what you have to say.



Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 03:21 PM
Here's some morew pictures for you satisfactory
user posted image

heres a good one of a drift

user posted image

heres a 1980 scooby hatchback (this is a FF too)

user posted image


heres another pic

user posted image

well thiers some more pictures i got.

Posted by: bunta_boi Dec 6 2002, 03:42 PM
thas what i say bro! me thinks that saying an FF is 'ass-dragging' is juss a show of denial....wut if FF drift is different from FR drift? juss like apples and oranges...two different things....they look the same, about the same size...but the apple wont ever taste like the orange or vice-versa....unless u change it genetically tongue.gif

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 03:44 PM
Iam glad to see that someone else here agree's with me that FFs can drift. Its been done. And my brother can initiate the drift with the foot brake. He is making great progress with his FF.

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 03:59 PM
heres a FF civic a drift sessions. Now if it really wasnt a car drifting whould they let him in and call him a drifter?

user posted image

Jason Tam-Hoy's Honda Civic. Jason is one of the
only front wheel drive drifters at the Drift Session. He will
slam his car into second gear and bang the revlimiter all the way
through the course. Unlike most people who use their revlimiter
to keep their engine from blowing up, Jason uses his to
keep his engine at sustained high RPM.


thier was also a Acura Integra thier too. My car biggrin.gif

Posted by: Indecisive Dec 6 2002, 04:13 PM
Rally is different. when we talk about drift here we're talking about asphalt. it's easy to break out your rear in the dirt or mud...I'm sure all of us has done this at least once before. I'm not saying that you can't drift an FF. but FR is clearly the best for Drifting because of the power advantages of FR, the balance, and the weight transfer capabilities unlike an FF whose weight is planted mainly in the front.

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 04:17 PM
Yes i will agree with you that FR cars are more erelevant for drifting. And i know rally is sort of diffrent. But then thier is drift session were many FF drifters go to. But what make's me mad is when people ask if you can drift a FF and people like Jayson just tells them straight up "that it is impossible to drift a ff and to get a FR" when he dosent even know for sure. I just want it to be known that you can drift a FF and that it is possible. Lots of people want to know if it is. And i am releving them of thier thoughts if they bought the right car. Yes drifitng a FF may be harder, but when you do it you should have mpore respect.


Posted by: Indecisive Dec 6 2002, 04:29 PM
it might take more skill to drift an FF but in a race between two highly skilled drifters, FR and FF the FR will win hands down. it takes a lot more effort to drift an FF therefore it will be slower.

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 6 2002, 04:32 PM
Not necesarliy. The FR miught have the uper hand but the FF does have a chance of winning. If you were to race a FF you whould not enter the drift in the beggining but at the Exit. So naturally the FR will take longer to drift the corner will the FF will pass him then drift a fast exit.

Posted by: FWD,RWD,AWD Dec 6 2002, 06:15 PM
I've abandoned the drift 'term' a while ago because of the many people that jump at the chance to comment (usually negatively) at a certain layout. FWDs, RWDs, and AWDs all have their perspective advantages and disadvantages, and all of these layouts are capable of going FAST in straights and corners regardless of the surface.

There are very many other driving techniques that shave times that just aren't as popular

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 6 2002, 06:38 PM
Just get an AWD car. Everyone should drive one.

I'm biased. laugh.gif

Alex

Posted by: Akain Dec 6 2002, 07:39 PM
Yes, FF's can drift. Yes it is possible to break traction on the rear tires of an FF, and maintaing a drift through throttle control. This is called "Tray drifting"

Happy, you are correct in that case. But as to a real drift, look at the laws of physics:
"See with a rear wheel drive car power is coming from the back so that basically means that you can slide the tail out and control the movement by countering with the front wheels. With a front wheel drive both the power and countering wheels are up front so it eliminates the possibilty of drifting grouped turns"

If you road race, and participate in SCCA events and autoX, etc., you should know 2 basic principles:
1. FWD cars experience understeer
2. RWD cars experience oversteer

Now, lets look at the definition of drift from Neo Vash's source for the possibilities of FF drifting: Driftsession.com:
"Drift
To cause a vehicle to exceed its tire?fs limits of adhesion, exhibiting a lateral slip, resulting in an oversteered condition."

next comes countersteering to maintain your drift THROUGHOUT the turn and not just at the exit:
"Countersteer
Corrective steering used to balance and maintain an oversteered condition. (turning the steering wheel in the opposite direction of the turn once the vehicle starts to oversteer)"

Now we all know what drifting is. Now in an FF car, try swinging it in an oversteered condition as you enter a corner, countersteer with the same tires that are providing you power which help continue the drift, countersteer to maintain your "oversteered" condition, and watch your car either fishtail or spin out of the track.

How bout this: From my experience at drift lessons in Japan at an amateur run at Nikko circuit, Japan, here is the first drift they teach: Power Over, a.ka. "Doughnuts"

Its easy and its the first time a beginner drifter gets to break traction in the rear wheels by the use of a cars power only. Rev, drop the clutch, slam the gas, and turn hard into a direction of your choice and spin in circles till you pee yourself.

Now, try the same thing in an FF car....not the same. But it is possible with "tray drifting" since you can lock your rear tires on top of trays and have a continuous drift at a full circle. Other than that, it isn't possible.

Why is there an FF civic at a driftsessions event in hawaii: Because he paid, knows the other drivers, and has every right to be there if he wants. Can he wrap around the circuit faster than other FR drivers- YES. Is he drifting- NO! Does it ever show him drifting- NO! But does it call him a drifter- YES!

So whats the deal? The website defines e-brake drifting as a type of drift that is popular among FWD drivers. My response, you can define a drift any way you want. If you want to go around telling everyone that you can drift an FF, it is your responsibility to accept their opinions and defend you own. I respect the way Neo Vash defended his point, but I think he could have done it in a better way.

Show me one site that says FF's can drift and I will show you ten others that say you can't. Show me one picture of a fwd car in a "supposed drift" and I'll show you a Hot Version video of the drift king himself, Tsuchiya Keiichi, almost spin out trying to iniate a drift in a civic type R the same way he would with his hachi-roku.

Saying that it takes more skill to drift an FF than it is an FR is pointless. The two drifts can NEVER be initiated in the same manner.

And another thing, since when do people actually use drifting in a real race? Yes you can, but why would you want to, so you can put other drivers in harms way by placing your car in a position that it was not meant to be in. Drifting to me is controlling your car in a state where you're not supppose to have any control at all. You are on the edge of making a full turn, or spinning out, which in some cases, lead to fatality.

If there are people in here who actually know about drift competitions, tell me, "Are drift competitions about how fast you make a turn, which would relate to drifting?"

Drifting is a sign of a skilled driver, and is just exhibition. In very rare cases, a drifter can initiate a drift to gain an advantage in a race, but it is rare. It's funny when I see people who don't know what drifiting is about, watch a track race in japan, whether its on a video or if they're actually at the event and say, "How come none of the cars are drifting?"

But don't get me wrong, one who can drift has to have a high level of driving skill, which would play a factor on the track. As for FF drifting, call it what you want, but I say bring your FF to a drift competition at ebisu, or nikko, and you'll realize that you are in the wrong place when you're surrounded by nothing but FR's and the occasional AWD.

Look in any japanese drift mag also, and you won't see a single FF car.
Drifting is a sub-culture in japan that is moving to the US and growing in popularity, maybe someday real drifters will acknowledge that FF's can drift, or maybe FF's will create a sub-culture of their own. But trying to place FWD sliding and RWD drifting together is wrong because THEY ARE NOT THE SAME TYPE OF CARS.

Besides, there is already a new sub-culture for FF's and "drifting"= Tray drifting.


Posted by: Jayson Dec 6 2002, 08:30 PM
I think Akain summed it up best. It is possible to slide with an FF car, but you will never be able to do consecutive non stop drifts. You physicaly need the rear wheels to produce the power, and you need them to sustain a drift. Any car can start to slide, but to maintain it you need to have the rear wheels spinning.

I'm just making this short for now. If any one wants to discuss this more hit me up on AIM.

laters

Posted by: Jayson Dec 6 2002, 08:32 PM
p.s. Your a Honda fan boy, right? laugh.gif


Posted by: vtecstyl3z Dec 6 2002, 08:44 PM
those pic are nice biggrin.gif can someone tell me is RSX a FF or FR ? my homboi told me that they replaced the RSX as the prelude.


Posted by: Jayson Dec 6 2002, 08:52 PM
I believe it's FF

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 6 2002, 09:00 PM
It's FF, definitely. And I'm not sure if it's a Prelude replacement. I know Acura is Honda, but I think it's more of a replacement to the Integra since Acura is being like Lexus is to Toyota or Infiniti to Nissan and trying to go for a more luxury based car lineup.

While on the topic of Acura, have you guys seen the 2003 NSX? Very clean.

Alex

Posted by: ]{aya Dec 6 2002, 09:25 PM
its FF, ...all hondas/acuras are, exept for tha S2000 and the NSX

Posted by: karasac Dec 7 2002, 03:23 AM
looks like i got in this a little late

my homie akain said it best, and let me say it again, FF's cant drift

the rsx was made to replace the integ, in japan they call it an integ

and almost anyone that says a FF can drift is a honda fanboy

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 7 2002, 08:24 AM
Honda fanboy? No I was more like breed into honda. My father has been working on Hondas as a Mechanic before i was even born. So naturally i whould go to work with him and so i grew a love for hondas. After learning how reliable and efficient they are that is. And just because it is a honda dosent mean that its not FR. THiers many FR that honda has. The NSX, S2000, the Beat. ALot of cars in japan that america will probably not get are FR and honda makes them. And iam not going against FR at all. Infact my second car will probably be a trueno because i rather drift with 800 dollar car that dosent cost alot to fix are to buy. But all iam saying is that it is possible to drift a FF. you keep going into the laws of phsyics and crap. Well the laws of physics can be bent and they can be used to work with you dumb asses(manily speaking to Akain). And if your going to go by all the velocity crap well then you cant drift either. Because it directly says that the people who drift are young Japanese men in the early 20's and some middle age men. And dont even give me that gay technical term of tray drift. And yers it is possible to countersteer and shift your weight and all that other crap with your power in the front of the car. So before you talk shit Akain go try it yourself and make sure that it is not possible. The definitiaon of a drift is getting your self sidesways around a corner more then once at a time. And well guesss what a FF can do that.


Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 7 2002, 08:29 AM
p.s - Oh yeah and Akain mabe you should read your post be cause your F**king contradicted yourself abotu 5 times.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 7 2002, 08:30 AM
A drift is a CONTROLLED slide. You don't even need to be going around a corner, you can be going down a straight away and be drifting. If you show me a vid of an FF doing that then I will agree that an FF can drift. And don't mention any rally cars, because those are under completly different conditions. Hell, I can drift my friends ESI during the winter before they plow the road, it's just like rally cars.

laters

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 7 2002, 08:44 AM
Iam still looking for an a video but heres a picture to keep your mind wondering for a little bit.

here is a integra drifting.

user posted image

thier. I'll be back with more

Posted by: Jayson Dec 7 2002, 08:56 AM
Not to be a dick, but that pic isn't helping much in my eyes, for all I know he pulled the E-brake at the end of the turn :/ so when you find a video let me know.

ciao

Posted by: Guest Dec 7 2002, 09:43 AM
Why would anybody ever pull the e brake near the end of the turn? 1. slow exit speed, 2. waste tire tread. In any kind of racing "slow entry = fast exit" in other words "oversteer in - grip out," hell, people should have learned that watching Initial D biggrin.gif

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 7 2002, 11:47 AM
Well even if he did pull the ebrake at the end of the drift. He stilled enter the drift and drifted the corner to the end. And like guest said. That whould be stupid the pull the e-brake at the end all you will do is slow your self down and mabe even spin out. So the obvious thing whould be that he acclerated .

Posted by: karasac Dec 7 2002, 02:19 PM
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 7 2002, 08:44 AM)
Iam still looking for an a video but heres a picture to keep your mind wondering for a little bit.

here is a integra drifting.

that doesnt even look like hes drifting, no counter-steer,he looks like hes just gripping the corner

and just because u get sideways in a corner doesnt mean ur drifting

u say sliding and drifting r diferent, yes they r but i think u dont know the difference.


Posted by: Akain Dec 7 2002, 02:27 PM
Now you have to resort to name calling. Well, i can be childish too. Learn to SPELL and back up your claims with hard evidence. I did not contradict myself, I showed you two sides of an argument, but unfortunately, you probably can't understand english.

Before you even start making false claims, get a car! Get your little integra, and show me. Show me an FF drifting. Not a still pic because that picture of an integra does not show any drifting.

You were "breed into hondas"

How sad for you. Not to flame them (because I own one myself), but go to japan and look for your little integra, they are practically nill. Does that mean they're bad, no.

Laws of Physics can be broken?
Next he'll say he can make his integra fly higher than an airplane.

Why don't you come down here and fly your little imaginary rice integra and after that maybe you can do a little imaginary drifting. Aside from that, I don't care about any little false claims you make without any hard evidence. Grow up, get a car, and learn something.

Posted by: bunta_boi Dec 7 2002, 03:57 PM
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 6 2002, 05:32 PM)
Not necesarliy. The FR miught have the uper hand but the FF does have a chance of winning. If you were to race a FF you whould not enter the drift in the beggining but at the Exit. So naturally the FR will take longer to drift the corner will the FF will pass him then drift a fast exit.

because of initial D, nothing is certain now....nothing has the upper hand, everything has an equal chance of winning.....lets all rmb the lan-evo IV that thought it could....then there was the 86 that DID.....so FF has equal chance as FR....juss depends on BLING and SKILL.....

Posted by: karasac Dec 7 2002, 05:40 PM
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Dec 6 2002, 03:42 PM)
thas what i say bro! me thinks that saying an FF is 'ass-dragging' is juss a show of denial

i think its the other way around, the FF "ass-draggers" r the ones in denial

if FF's could drift i think that they would have been doing it in japan already, they cam up with drifting so if FF drifting was possible they would have already done it.

and yes i did use veliocity as my one of my sources for my argument because they have been drifting in japan for years and they know what they are talking about.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 7 2002, 06:54 PM
Still waiting for that video.................................

Posted by: bunta_boi Dec 7 2002, 08:20 PM
hey man dont take me wrong...i only have childish faith in FF....i dont know too much....got no lisence....my dad drive an aerio so me juss wishful for it hehehe but yah....i dont know too much of this car stuff gotta read it up....lol yah im unexperienced person and yes that is all

Posted by: ]{aya Dec 7 2002, 08:26 PM
ok its very simple bunta...whit a FR you have the front wheels controling the drift and the rear wheels giving power, whit a FF, the front wheels do both, and the back is like "lugage" the front wheels have to carry ...so thats why its not possible...exept for ass drag


Posted by: sarudrifter Dec 7 2002, 10:03 PM
hehe this is funny as hell!! rite now i have a 97 civic hatch...and yes i have tried to "drift" and i call it "ass-dragging" with a FF cuz thats what i did! i did video tape, but it wasnt a drift! i think the term ass dragging is appropriate becuz thats what i was doin...if u dun believe me go try it yourself. i do want to drift so im planning on getting a 180sx (89-94 240sx) because to really drift u have to have an FR layout....dont argue anymore becuz with an FF its not a drift!...let me say again i've tried it! tongue.gif

Posted by: Jayson Dec 7 2002, 10:39 PM
Preach it my brother

Posted by: karasac Dec 7 2002, 10:49 PM
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 7 2002, 08:24 AM)
And if your going to go by all the velocity crap well then you cant drift either. Because it directly says that the people who drift are young Japanese men in the early 20's and some middle age men. The definitiaon of a drift is getting your self sidesways around a corner more then once at a time.

ok, it says japanese men because it originated in japan and at the time the site was made(which was about 3 years ago) the US drifting scene was small to non-existant.

and just because u get sideways in a corner doesnt mean ur drifting.

Posted by: Real Drifter Dec 8 2002, 01:27 AM
LOL! Drift An FF. What a Dumbass

He made a theory, HAHAHA......

I don't know if the rest of you guys noticed, but dis joker's pickin a fight with all of you, and you guys are dumb enough to let this little boy get to you. LOL!

I think he's basically insulted a majority of this message board, and he hasn't even proven that you can drift a FWD. That pic sux ass btw Neo Vash.

Here's my impression of Neo Vash with MY theory of reverse drifting:

Ya guys, it is POSSIBLE. I slam my car into reverse, and get it up to speeds of about 65mph, and I drift it through corner after corner on the track...IN REVERSE. Next, let my web designer buddy make a website that says I am a "reverse drifter" And if that aint enuf proof for ya, let me take a still picture of the back of my car experiencing major body roll, tires that are so slick, neither the front or rear tires are smoking, with my reverse lights on. That lovely picture should prove I can drift the car in reverse. Oh, but don't expect a video cuz it aint possible, so I cant show you a video. And if you say I'm lying, I'll tell you to shut up and stop talkin shit and make fun of you cuz I feel bad.

And that is my impression of Neo Vash.
I dare this idiot to take his argument to a CAR forum. They will laugh themselves silly, especially if its true that he doesn't even OWN a car. HAHAHAHAHA......

Posted by: Real Drifter Dec 8 2002, 01:41 AM
Oh, one more thing for you guys to think about:

If a high skill drifter shifts the weight of his car to swing the rear sideways, how the hell do you do that in an FF with all the weight in the front. LOL! Maybe Neo Vash should try drifting in reverse in his FF, he'll porly have a better chance doin that than doin his little FF driftin.

And another thing, what kind of cars do you guys drive who are arguing against him. Not that I'm defendin the little boy or supportin him, but y'all are pretty stupid if you guys don't even have cars that can drift meaning FR or AWD? do you even have cars? are there even ppl on this website who drive yet?

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 8 2002, 02:27 AM
All of you go get yourselves a real car..with AWD. I'll meet you in the dirt lot and show you why all of your wheels should be getting power, instead of just two you wrong wheel drive bastards.

laugh.gif jk

PEEEEEEEEEEACE

Alex

Posted by: Guest_ryosuke Dec 8 2002, 11:43 PM
Geee... how F**king gay. Let me see, FF drifting.... quit smoking the crack kid. And as for the rather childish comment of being breed into the Honda line... what the hell did your mom do? Ride an old 1980 civic and you were born? Let me explain something to you... I used to own a 97 Lude.... I've powerslid in that car every which way... and it wasn't drifting due to the crappy front to back weight ratio and the fact that no matter how HARD I tried, I could not sustain a drift. I own a 3KGT, and I can powerslide around a corner, but I know that it will only be one corner at a time, can not keep it continous. But alas, I do drift a S13... its easy to get the drift initiated. And do you know what we use the E-Brake for? Its to correct our line... not used mainly as a drift initiator. Stop smoking the crack, and watching Initial D. See if you can find a real drifter that goes touge online, and he'll tell you that some of the shit on Initial D that you think is so cool is fake.

Posted by: karasac Dec 9 2002, 12:42 AM
well it looks like its now seven to one against neo vash.

hmmm, i think ill pin this thread.


Posted by: Jayson Dec 9 2002, 10:51 AM
It seems to me that the general idea here is that FF can't drift. And it seems to me that the general idea is correct, so I suggest closing this thread and leaving it at that.

Posted by: teknoman Dec 9 2002, 12:30 PM
I think the FF can't drift at all. I have to agree with Jayson & karasac about that you see I went to inside drift overview click on this link it will give you all the details why can't an FF's can't drift http://velocity.isfaster.com/drift/overview/overview.htm

Posted by: karasac Dec 9 2002, 01:59 PM
cmon neo vash, where r u, its been 2 days since ur last response, i wanna see what u have to say before i close this thead.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 9 2002, 04:05 PM
still waiting for video

Posted by: karasac Dec 9 2002, 04:41 PM
u want a video of an FF trying to drift?...here ya go,it was posted sometime ago: http://www.cbdesign.ch/video/filme/testdrive.mpg

Posted by: Jayson Dec 9 2002, 06:13 PM
lol, I remember that! dumb ass biggrin.gif

Posted by: Alex Dec 10 2002, 03:50 PM
hahha that was horrible!. to me it looks like the biggest mistake was putting that driver in! the way he came out of it looked like he completely let go.

Posted by: Guest_Neo Vash Dec 10 2002, 05:23 PM
Sorry I havent been on in a while. School has been getting in the way. Oh and for you jayson i ordered a tape about it. Once i get it i will put some clips on ok. And as for whoever the dumbass who said that i said you use the e-brake to initiate the drift. Read the whole F**king post. I and quorte me "using the e-brake for the drift isnt really a drift" so take it up your ass.
oh and for whoever said go out and try it. Well i did. And i did get the back to lose traction and get around the corner. And I will not say that FF cant drift. I will always belive they can. And for the person who said thier was no Acura Integras in japan, MABE THE IS BECAUSE THIER IS NO SUCH THING AS ACURA IN JAPAN DUMB ASS. Its just a honda thier. I'am just going to give up fighting with you guys. Thiers no point if your just going to fight back agaisnt me. I can care less if you dont belive it. As long as iam out having the fun with it thats all that really matters.

well peace out.

p.s.- impreza fag AWD arent that great. You might think that the impreza is all that with its 276hp. But the fact is that it only gets a 100 and something to the wheels.

well later, I'am off making a site and i probably wont be on that much to debate it anymore(thus why iam giving up on this fight). On a real drifter iam not trying to make fun of anyone, Iam just trying to put out what i believe.

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 10 2002, 05:34 PM
Don't get your panties in a bunch homo. A lot of cars in Japan claim to get 276 hp but they really get a lot more if you dyno them. 276 hp but only 100 at the wheels? That A/C must be taking the shit out of the engine with those pulleys...idiot. Why don't you think before you say something to make yourself look like a fool? I don't know why you brought me into this but I guess it's because your sorry FF "drifting" ass couldn't think of anything else to say to the people actually involved in this argument.

Next FF I watch spin out on the twisties because I'm on their ass and they're going to slow's for you homo.

Stop hating because you have a shitty drivetrain.

Alex

Posted by: Jayson Dec 10 2002, 06:12 PM
Drifting= Sliding the car in a controlled manner around multiple turns without gaining traction through the whole session.

*cough* FF's can't do it *cough*

Posted by: ryosuke Dec 10 2002, 08:18 PM
QUOTE (Guest_Neo Vash @ Dec 10 2002, 05:23 PM)
Sorry I havent been on in a while. School has been getting in the way. Oh and for you jayson i ordered a tape about it. Once i get it i will put some clips on ok. And as for whoever the dumbass who said that i said you use the e-brake to initiate the drift. Read the whole F**king post. I and quorte me "using the e-brake for the drift isnt really a drift" so take it up your ass.
oh and for whoever said go out and try it. Well i did. And i did get the back to lose traction and get around the corner. And I will not say that FF cant drift. I will always belive they can. And for the person who said thier was no Acura Integras in japan, MABE THE IS BECAUSE THIER IS NO SUCH THING AS ACURA IN JAPAN DUMB ASS. Its just a honda thier. I'am just going to give up fighting with you guys. Thiers no point if your just going to fight back agaisnt me. I can care less if you dont belive it. As long as iam out having the fun with it thats all that really matters.

well peace out.

p.s.- impreza fag AWD arent that great. You might think that the impreza is all that with its 276hp. But the fact is that it only gets a 100 and something to the wheels.

well later, I'am off making a site and i probably wont be on that much to debate it anymore(thus why iam giving up on this fight). On a real drifter iam not trying to make fun of anyone, Iam just trying to put out what i believe.

Sorry if I read your post wrong... but let me "quorte"(lmfao), " And I will not say that FF can't drift". After all these facts and supporting evidence that people have shown you, even with some scientific and mechanical ones... you still believe that a FF can? Now usually I'd say you were ignorant, seeing that ignorance is the absence of knowledge... but you have the knowledge here.... so that makes you STUPID. Just plain and simple, F**king STUPID. You tried it? In what? Your daddy's car?
You know why there is no Acura in Japan? It's because Acura here in the States is supposed to be the luxury line of Honda's, just like Infiniti is for Nissan and Lexus is for toyota.
So yes... you go back out and have fun ass dragging. You know what? Why don't you come out to one of southern Cali's drift events, ask daddy if you can borrow his car. You know... the one you lowered with lowering springs and shocks, which BTW IS THE TOTALLY F**kING WRONG SETUP FOR DRIFT. Just because you powerslid around one corner doesn't make it a drift. Get your facts straight son and keep the rice out of the drift scene.


Posted by: Jayson Dec 10 2002, 09:20 PM
QUOTE
... but let me "quorte"(lmfao), "
laugh.gif

I'm not the only one who caught that


QUOTE
Get your facts straight son and keep the rice out of the drift scene.


w3rd!

on a side note, lowering your car can actualy improve cornering abilities, not sure about drifting though unsure.gif


Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 10 2002, 09:43 PM
Lowering the car lowers the center of gravity overall for the vehicle, but it won't do anything good for you unless you get some stiffer springs on there also to prevent body roll and to keep the tires from rubbing your wheel wells. That can help prevent understeer for a lot of cars. Some cars just appear lowered because replacing the springs and struts lower them, but overall it's just the stiffness that matters.

Unless you're rolling deep mad bling style in your Accord with cut springs and neon underbody lights that are hard to see cuz your body's so low to the ground anyways.

And the Impreza WRX does not get 100hp to the wheels, whoever told you that must've been playing a joke on you. Unless they were talking about the 2.5RS to which they're still wrong. But besides, horsepower is just an arbitrary number...we all watch Initial D here, we should know that it doesn't matter as opposed to skill cool.gif . Horsepower sells cars, torque moves them.

Alex

Posted by: Jayson Dec 10 2002, 09:47 PM
QUOTE
Horsepower sells cars, torque moves them.


how tru that is

Posted by: vtecstyl3z Dec 10 2002, 09:53 PM
damn this topic is hot. HOT HOT HOT HOT. ouch i burned my hand. hahaha.. hey admin keep this baby up.! dont close the topic


Posted by: ryosuke Dec 10 2002, 09:56 PM
Coil overs and springs designed for track racing are more ideal than your basic eibach springs and shocks combo for drifting.

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 10 2002, 10:02 PM
Yeah, actually while on the topic of suspension setup. Does anyone in here have a set of JIC FLT-A2's for their ride? I'm contemplating picking a set up for my car, but wanted to know how the ride was.

Alex

Posted by: SupahNewbie Dec 11 2002, 01:01 AM
Newbie question sorta on topic for the cannot drift thing but sorta not:

How come that Nissan Skyline GT-R32 can't drift? Can any Skylines Drift? What makes the GT-R so special? I'm clueless as my name pretty much makes out.

Oh yeah and ummm.... stop fighting and answer my question rolleyes.gif

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 11 2002, 03:36 AM
Skylines can drift, just Nakazato chose a grip racing style as opposed to drifting. It's because he couldn't defeat the white skyline when he was in his S13 (or was it S14?). No matter how hard he drifted his car, the Skyline beat him by grip driving so he adopted that style.

Alex

Posted by: Jayson Dec 11 2002, 07:44 AM
I believe it was an S13 he drove before the R32. And isn't it funny how this guy never wins a single battle, even though he supposed to be one of the best around? I mean, come on, he lost in his own flash back!

Posted by: breeze Dec 11 2002, 08:08 AM
QUOTE (Jayson @ Dec 11 2002, 07:44 AM)
I believe it was an S13 he drove before the R32. And isn't it funny how this guy never wins a single battle, even though he supposed to be one of the best around? I mean, come on, he lost in his own flash back!

yeah, I noticed that too... The guy just can't catch a break

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 11 2002, 11:16 AM
Maybe there's a little bit of symbolism that comes into play with Nakazazto. This whole anime is pretty much focusing on a driver's skill, and the fact that THAT is what makes a driver fast, not his car. Well Nakazato kinda goes against this mythos by ditching his old car and focusing on a car that has great potential and can be pushed to higher limits, and in result it's making him lose races.

Alex

Posted by: karasac Dec 11 2002, 11:58 AM
a skyline GTS-T can drift, the GTS-T is just RWD, the GT-R on the other hand cant drift due to its weight and that its kinda 4wd,what do i mean by "kinda 4wd"? well the GT-R has something called ATTESA ET-S(dont ask me what it means cuz i dont know), what it does is it can transfer up to 50% of the torque from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip(hey that rhymes happy.gif )under normal driving conditions it remians RWD, so if u tried to lose traction in the rear the ATTESA ET-S would automatically transfer the power to the front wheels(hence "kinda 4WD"), making it impossible to do a predictable drift.

so the GT-R was made for gripping, thats y Nakazato uses it for grip.

talk about going off topic wink2.gif


Posted by: Jayson Dec 11 2002, 09:17 PM
QUOTE
talk about going off topic wink2.gif


You brought this upon yourself, but insightful none the less

Posted by: Alex Dec 11 2002, 09:27 PM
lol.

btw, karasac, i have seen video clips of GT-R's drifting, not *ass dragging*. if i still had the link id be more than glad to share it with you, but unfortunately i don't. unsure.gif

Posted by: karasac Dec 11 2002, 11:17 PM
QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ Dec 11 2002, 09:27 PM)
btw, karasac, i have seen video clips of GT-R's drifting, not *ass dragging*.

if its drifting its a GTS-T,all skylines rnt GT-R, and the GTS-T can drift cuz its a RWD, never said anything about it "ass dragging", thats only for FFs


Posted by: Jayson Dec 11 2002, 11:31 PM
GTS-T this, GT-R that, I say fawk them all and just find the damn G spot!

Thats what she said at least.... blink.gif

Posted by: Tofu Drift AE86 Dec 12 2002, 08:59 PM
heh i dont got much time and i would go all out and just put FF to shame but dood Neo Vash, theres something in our world called physics and its a shame you havent figured it out yet. i bet your an unexperienced driver/racer or whatever. it's rediculous to argue about a topic such as this.

take care

Posted by: Jayson Dec 12 2002, 09:04 PM
God Damn Neo, another person saying your wrong! Whatcha got now big guy?

Posted by: vtecstyl3z Dec 12 2002, 09:44 PM
lol.. me and perry was chattin the other day. and my homie perry was like. damn neo got pwned bad 8 to 1....!! where is neo at lol??

Posted by: Akain Dec 13 2002, 12:21 AM
Ok, lets stop with this thought process that drifting makes you go faster around the track. I've seen two, REAL, races where an 86 takes out an R32, but don't be shocked when I tell you that there was NO drifting involved.

You drift for fun, and it shows superior driving skill, leave it at that.

I own a civic and a 91' 180sx (yes its not a 240sx, the engine makes it a 180sx...muahahaha). I like em both, but I'd kill to own an AWD car of my choice, meaning a LanEvo, or GTR. I'm not too fond of Subarus but that's my preference, I still respect them because they are AWD, turbo monsters.

This is my final piece in this debate that never should have happened. You don't need an FF to drift, so why try making the impossible possible. You wanna drift, get a RWD or AWD.

Hey Karasac, we won mang, but it's like I said: we'll never change his mind, he'll believe whatever he wants because of pride over reason.

The good thing is we can help keep others who don't know on the right path.

and Nakazato is cool, he just can't drive compared to the other main racers in intial d. I can't believe me, Karasac, and some of my other buddies drove around with "Night Kids" stickers on our cars a few years back. LOL! They never won....anything.....Nakazato is like 0-4 in the anime: uphill, downhill, homecourse, akina, no wins. Cheap!

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 13 2002, 12:54 AM
QUOTE (Akain @ Dec 13 2002, 12:21 AM)
Ok, lets stop with this thought process that drifting makes you go faster around the track. I've seen two, REAL, races where an 86 takes out an R32, but don't be shocked when I tell you that there was NO drifting involved.

If you go onto Kazaa or some other P2P program you can do a search for "initial D hachi roku special" and you'll get a vid of two AE86's beating an R34 Skyline. One of them is driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya, and the other by his co-host on a lot of the Video Option tapes. The Skyline takes off at first but takes some shitty lines and eventually gets absolutely wasted by the two AE86s. They're not highly tuned engines either, the drift king's was tuned to 150 hp and the other to 200 I believe. But yeah, they didn't drift at all.

Alex

Posted by: Jayson Dec 13 2002, 09:49 AM
I know drifting isn't the fastest way around a race track, but it just looks pretty and takes a lot of car control to drift, thats why I like it. I've been atuo crossing for two years, and I have never seen some drift (well, maybe around the hair pin turn once or twice) so it's not practical to use in a race on every turn, though it has it's place and time I'm sure.

Posted by: tainted Dec 13 2002, 05:51 PM
QUOTE (ImprezaSTi27 @ Dec 13 2002, 04:54 AM)
QUOTE (Akain @ Dec 13 2002, 12:21 AM)
Ok, lets stop with this thought process that drifting makes you go faster around the track. I've seen two, REAL, races where an 86 takes out an R32, but don't be shocked when I tell you that there was NO drifting involved.

If you go onto Kazaa or some other P2P program you can do a search for "initial D hachi roku special" and you'll get a vid of two AE86's beating an R34 Skyline. One of them is driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya, and the other by his co-host on a lot of the Video Option tapes. The Skyline takes off at first but takes some shitty lines and eventually gets absolutely wasted by the two AE86s. They're not highly tuned engines either, the drift king's was tuned to 150 hp and the other to 200 I believe. But yeah, they didn't drift at all.

Alex

heh... i saw this one... but that skyline driver was kinda sucky...
he was braking late everywhere and such... poor guy though... it's like 2 davids and goliath... laugh.gif
if i remember correctly... one of the 86 had a CF hood and the other one didn't... i don't have the vid myself but my friend does... which one was keiichi tsuchiya? wink2.gif

Posted by: ImprezaSTi27 Dec 13 2002, 06:18 PM
QUOTE (tainted @ Dec 13 2002, 05:51 PM)
QUOTE (ImprezaSTi27 @ Dec 13 2002, 04:54 AM)
QUOTE (Akain @ Dec 13 2002, 12:21 AM)
Ok, lets stop with this thought process that drifting makes you go faster around the track. I've seen two, REAL, races where an 86 takes out an R32, but don't be shocked when I tell you that there was NO drifting involved.

If you go onto Kazaa or some other P2P program you can do a search for "initial D hachi roku special" and you'll get a vid of two AE86's beating an R34 Skyline. One of them is driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya, and the other by his co-host on a lot of the Video Option tapes. The Skyline takes off at first but takes some shitty lines and eventually gets absolutely wasted by the two AE86s. They're not highly tuned engines either, the drift king's was tuned to 150 hp and the other to 200 I believe. But yeah, they didn't drift at all.

Alex

heh... i saw this one... but that skyline driver was kinda sucky...
he was braking late everywhere and such... poor guy though... it's like 2 davids and goliath... laugh.gif
if i remember correctly... one of the 86 had a CF hood and the other one didn't... i don't have the vid myself but my friend does... which one was keiichi tsuchiya? wink2.gif

The one with the carbon fiber hood was Keiichi Tsuchiya. Pushes around 150 hp.

Alex

Posted by: tainted Dec 13 2002, 06:25 PM
thnx!

Posted by: ]{aya Dec 13 2002, 06:46 PM
what ??????? Keiichi Tsuchiya ???? waaaaa !!!, he is truly the "Dorikin", man that guy is so talented ....

i saw the film but i didnt know it was him driving that trueno


Posted by: Alex Dec 13 2002, 08:45 PM
it would be so awesome if keiichi made a appearance in ID. Bunta Fujiwara vs Keiichi Tsuchiya...the battle of all battles....

Posted by: Chamber Dec 13 2002, 11:31 PM
Front wheel drive cars cannot drift. You cannot heel toe in a FWD car.

which would mean controlling your line using the ebrake and footbrake, which just slows you down.

it would be faster to take corners at the optimal grip speed.

Posted by: FWD,RWD,AWD Dec 13 2002, 11:53 PM
You can Heel and Toe any manual transmission car, all professional racers do it. An important note: Heel and toe does not equal drift. It's a way to shave off ~0.5 sec off your lap times, it doesn't necessarily involve oversteer.

I'm not sure about ur phrase 'FF can't "drift"' watch the video mentioned in my other post.

Posted by: Chamber Dec 14 2002, 12:02 AM
Can you accelerate around a corner while "drifting" in a FWD car?

the most common form of "drifting" is the powerslide. while not the same thing, its close enough for most people.

Powersliding is caused by breaking the rear tires loose during a corner by accelerating past their grip. Thus you can exceed the speed you could normally take the corner while "grip driving"

When in a FWD car you for any reason break the rear tires loose, you will oversteer unless you continue accelerating. Unfortunately when you pull the handbrake, most of your car stops rolling and starts dragging.. Thus slowing you down.

I dont care what the video you see shows. its simple logic.

When you see someone pull the handbrake to make a tight turn, then accelerate out of it.. they are NOT drifting. they're using oversteer to pivot the rear of their car around the front tires.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 14 2002, 12:59 AM
QUOTE
When you see someone pull the handbrake to make a tight turn, then accelerate out of it.. they are NOT drifting. they're using oversteer to pivot the rear of their car around the front tires.


E-brake is evil

Posted by: FF blows Dec 14 2002, 05:25 AM
it's not like i have never been drive a FF car b4, i actually had 4 of my own, and 2 of 'em were civics. not that i have anything against honda, but just that i realized they suck, especially on the body frame and transmittion. i've tried every single way to drift on a FF, even my 00 celica gts, but it just doesn't work for sh*t. but i could easily drift on my friend's rx7. the most a FF can do is just the powerslide, if i would have tried to drift on a FF car, i would probably fall off the cliff with it's powerslide on those canyon roads.

i strongly doubt that Neo Vash knows anything about drifting, and i don't believe he's a good driver, cause anyone with the right mind would know that physics can't be bent. and driving relates to lots of physics, if he thinks physics can be bent, then it just made my point. HE'S JUST SOME HONDA FAN THAT DOESN'T KNOW SH*T.

since i've tried to drift with all my FFs and all they gave me was just the powerslide, i wouldn't even stick with it anymore since i love drifting so much. i think i'd be better off with getting a skyline gts instead. *Remember, it's not an FF layout otherwise it won't DRIFT*

does anyone know any good place to drift at night in Southern CA? cause there's cops everywhere. I don't know 2 canyon roads that don't have cops.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 14 2002, 10:57 AM
QUOTE
HE'S JUST SOME HONDA FAN THAT DOESN'T KNOW SH*T.


that was kinda taking it east, wasn't it?

Posted by: Neo Vash Dec 23 2002, 05:02 PM
FF Blows, has it ever accured to you that you dont know what the hell your talking about? and saying that iam just some honda fanboy? sigh. I could care less if you had 10 FF and couldnt drift them. Like i said before, it takes alot more skill to drift a FF then a FR. And to say that I'am a honda fanboy, then yes your correct, I am a fan of hondas. I do think that they are a great quality of cars. Like the NSX(wich is a Honda) the S2000, the Integra. Thier all great cars. But i also adore RX7's, Skylines, Supras ect... If you want me to call you something then your a FR FAN BOY you lil piece of shit. thier happy?

Posted by: ryosuke Dec 23 2002, 07:48 PM
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 23 2002, 05:02 PM)
FF Blows, has it ever accured to you that you dont know what the hell your talking about? and saying that iam just some honda fanboy? sigh. I could care less if you had 10 FF and couldnt drift them. Like i said before, it takes alot more skill to drift a FF then a FR. And to say that I'am a honda fanboy, then yes your correct, I am a fan of hondas. I do think that they are a great quality of cars. Like the NSX(wich is a Honda) the S2000, the Integra. Thier all great cars. But i also adore RX7's, Skylines, Supras ect... If you want me to call you something then your a FR FAN BOY you lil piece of shit. thier happy?

I believe, the correct way of labeling you would have been, you're a RICE boy.

Posted by: tainted Dec 23 2002, 08:30 PM
how about we not label anyone?
calling you ryosuke wannabe wouldn't be very nice now would it? biggrin.gif hehe jus an example

Posted by: Jayson Dec 23 2002, 09:42 PM
Maybe you don't know what your talking about Neo Vash, from what I recall, you can't even drive.......

Posted by: tainted Dec 24 2002, 12:30 PM
QUOTE (Jayson @ Dec 24 2002, 01:42 AM)
Maybe you don't know what your talking about Neo Vash, from what I recall, you can't even drive.......

he can't? wink2.gif
but from what i can read, it would seem that he has taken an FF car and driven and drifted with it... dry.gif

but anyhow... i think we've had enough flaming in this thread...
like the title says "The New Theory on FF Drifting"
Theory by definition means - An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture
it is to suppose or presume... everyone is entitled to their own beliefs...

Posted by: Chamber Dec 24 2002, 02:15 PM
would all you ricers [with the exception of ryosuke] stop calling rear wheel drive cars FR

FR means front mount motor, rear wheel drive. commonly said in a sentence like "it has a FR drivetrain"

the difference isnt FF vs FR its FWD vs RWD.

Posted by: Indecisive Dec 24 2002, 02:50 PM
QUOTE (Chamber @ Dec 24 2002, 02:15 PM)
would all you ricers [with the exception of ryosuke] stop calling rear wheel drive cars FR

FR means front mount motor, rear wheel drive. commonly said in a sentence like "it has a FR drivetrain"

the difference isnt FF vs FR its FWD vs RWD.

okay, that's just like telling somebody how to pronounce something. you can tell them how to say it but you can't make them say it your way.


if you know wut they're talking about as well as everybody else then there's no problem.

Posted by: Jayson Dec 28 2002, 10:47 PM
QUOTE
would all you ricers [with the exception of ryosuke] stop calling rear wheel drive cars FR



Well what the hell? All FF cars have a front engine, I can't even think of a single front wheel drive car that doesn't. FR and MR are WAY different, so thats why they call them FR and MR, and not just "RWD". Your just a shmuck, thats all. tongue.gif

Posted by: karasac Dec 29 2002, 01:26 AM
QUOTE (Chamber @ Dec 24 2002, 02:15 PM)
would all you ricers [with the exception of ryosuke] stop calling rear wheel drive cars FR

i resent that remark
QUOTE

FR means front mount motor, rear wheel drive. commonly said in a sentence like "it has a FR drivetrain"

the difference isnt FF vs FR its FWD vs RWD.



and calling it FF or FR already implies that its FWD or RWD, so what the biggie? tongue.gif

Posted by: tainted Dec 30 2002, 06:37 AM
a question...

before ppl said that ff cars can't drift cause using the handbrake is not considered a drift... then how come there's a term "Emergency Brake Drift" huh.gif
it's even on this site itself and almost everywhere else unsure.gif

"This technique is very basic, pull the E-Brake or (side brake) to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. (note: this can also be used to correct errors or fine tune drift angles)."
-http://www.geocities.com/go2iddrift

Posted by: Jayson Dec 30 2002, 11:33 AM
Thats a technique used for high speed slides IMO, once you pull that E-brake and start sliding, you little to no control, there's no way to correct it once you start it.

But, if you start a dift to soon you can pull the E-brake to get it sliding sideways more, but this isn't a very common technique, and it takes mad skills to use properly.

Posted by: tainted Dec 31 2002, 06:38 AM
well then the e-brake is just for corrections?
and wouldn't that cause a much slower exit?

Posted by: Jayson Dec 31 2002, 09:59 AM
Not really, because you actualy gain speed when you lock your tires up. Like I said before, thresh-hold braking is a MUST! sleep.gif

Posted by: Guest_Neo Vash Jan 2 2003, 09:26 AM
Jayson mabe you cant recall things to great ;] because iam pretty sure that i can and do drive everyday. And ryosuke, learn the definition of a RICE BOY faggot. liking a car dosent make you a RICE BOY, its what you do to your car that makes you one stupid. Your probrably a little faggot who puts a nice sound systems, 20s, some strobes, neons, light up things, lights under your 5ince drop car were you cant even see the lights and your F**k up your car every time you go over a speed bump. i bet i described your car perfectly, huh.

Posted by: Jayson Jan 2 2003, 02:04 PM
WTF are you talking about, last I heard you were 15, no? So are you telling me you are driving under age? If this is true what kind of shmuck are you?

And whats wrong with ricing out a car? In Japan thats a big thing, but over there they call it VIP, but it's mostly the Yokazua (sp?) do it, so I don't mind them, it's just that when they think they can race, thats when I get pissed mad.gif

Posted by: Guest_Neo Vash Jan 2 2003, 04:13 PM
Iam 15 and last time i look in my wallet i had a restriced class e liscences. so i can drive legally, guess iam not a smuck. and if you must know i did learn to drive under age.

Posted by: Indecisive Jan 2 2003, 05:12 PM
QUOTE (Jayson @ Jan 2 2003, 01:54 PM)
And whats wrong with ricing out a car? In Japan thats a big thing, but over there they call it VIP, but it's mostly the Yokazua (sp?) do it, so I don't mind them, it's just that when they think they can race, thats when I get pissed mad.gif

*shakes head*.......I didn't expect to hear that from you......lol


oh and about that FF FR thing.........they use that in the anime..not FWD or RWD and that anime isn't about rice.



Posted by: Jayson Jan 2 2003, 06:35 PM
it's Shmuck, not smuck you shmuck

Posted by: ]{aya Jan 2 2003, 11:18 PM
lol ...and who said Initial D was rice again so that i can kick his butt !

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Jan 10 2003, 08:46 AM
QUOTE
once you pull that E-brake and start sliding, you little to no control, there's no way to correct it once you start it.


ok first off 'e-brake' drift is common in FR and FF drifting, it is used to initiate or maintain traction loss in the rear end of the vehicle. Just coz u pull the e-brake and lock the rear wheels does not mean that u now have little to no control over the vehicle, this all matters on how much the e-brake has been pulled, how long it has been pulled for, and obviously the driving skills of the person behind the wheel.

and saying there is no way to correct it once u start it is wrong also, just like any other form of oversteer, in extreme cases past the cars threshold yes there is no way to correct, but in a normal oversteering condition u can control e-brake oversteer with countersteering and throttle control...

it continues...

QUOTE
you actualy gain speed when you lock your tires up


ok this is soooo wrong, once u have locked up your tyres, you will slow down slower than if they were gripping the road, but there is no way u GAIN speed, i mean lets think about it

get in your car, speed up to 100km/h, slam on the brakes, i mean SLAM THEM, locking up those wheels, what happens? do u increase speed, are u now doing 110km/h? no

pplz, especially jason coz he spams these forums so much, should actually have some knowledge about what they are talking about b4 they blab whatever they want to say..

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 10:45 AM
uh-oh... he said ff drifting laugh.gif j/k

anyhow... i knew e-braking could not make a car go faster... perhaps just make it slide faster...

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 05:27 PM
Your car will go faster if you lock your tires up. Knowledge? I have that in spades. If you lock your tires up you WILL gain speed, not a large amount, but you will increase your velocity.

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 05:31 PM
And another, why must you always insult me about my rather large post count and with how often I post? Just because I spam doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I have answered a few peeps questions about cars and racing techniques outside of the board. Just because not every post has something related to how to do a certain technique right doesn't mean I don't know my stuff.

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 06:42 PM
QUOTE (Jayson @ Jan 10 2003, 03:25 PM)
Your car will go faster if you lock your tires up. Knowledge? I have that in spades. If you lock your tires up you WILL gain speed, not a large amount, but you will increase your velocity.

i thought it would decrease speed since the tires, not spinning, will gain a little traction due to friction... so i think speed will decrease, not a large amount, but you will decrease your velocity...

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 06:54 PM
When you lock your tires up, you LOOSE traction, you are sliding

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 07:06 PM
ok my bad... you're right... i meant something different... hehe
disregard the last comment biggrin.gif
what i mean is that braking in any way or manner would decrease speed... slowing/stopping the tires would slow down the car due to friction... it's common sense


Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 08:30 PM
that is right, and thats why thresh hold breaking is soo important. Because you want to get the most stoppage (is that even a word? unsure.gif ) from you tires with out them going over their friction limit

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 09:16 PM
threshold braking would be braking w/o having your car lose traction, but almost.
so if you want to make your car slide by locking up your tires [in order to make your driving faster, according to you] why would you need threshold braking? unsure.gif

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 09:41 PM
threshold braking is breaking to the point before sliding, so you get the most out of your tires when stopping

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 09:46 PM
with threshold braking... you are planning to slow down while getting "the most out of your tires when stopping"

so if you intend to slide AND make a fast slide with brake lock... how is threshold braking connected? wink2.gif

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 09:56 PM
you don't want to slide, sliding is bad

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 10:17 PM
but if you suddenly lock your tires, all you get it slide

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 10:27 PM
and thats why we don't lock them up

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 10:41 PM
dry.gif but that was your idea to gain speed
QUOTE
you actualy gain speed when you lock your tires up


therefore from our conversation:

lock up tires = slide = bad = slow down

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 11:01 PM
lock up=slide=bad=slow down is wrong

lock up=slide=bad is right, but slow down is wrong

Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 11:02 PM
You don't want to gain speed, thats why locking up is bad

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 11:17 PM
QUOTE
But, if you start a dift to soon you can pull the E-brake to get it sliding sideways more, but this isn't a very common technique, and it takes mad skills to use properly.


why is gaining speed bad? if you want to complete a turn, you pull the e-brake you said. so by pulling the e-brake, you lose traction to complete the turn, therefore taking less friction which would decrease decelaration.
so when you decrease decelaration, you technically gain speed[this is how i interpreted your quote about locking tires gaining speed]. which i believe is good? tongue.gif


Posted by: Jayson Jan 10 2003, 11:26 PM
all that you said is correct, but it is very unpredictable, and I wouldn't recomend doing it.

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 10 2003, 11:49 PM
i don't either tongue.gif but just in case

Posted by: Jayson Jan 11 2003, 12:06 AM
Well, I'm off to work now, so laters!

Posted by: cheevoon Jan 11 2003, 02:59 AM
locking up allows u to change direction easier.. useful when u wanna to a fast U-turn.

Posted by: Jayson Jan 11 2003, 03:37 PM
If you lock your tires up you won't be able to turn since you have no traction. tongue.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 11 2003, 04:15 PM
if what i believe is right, e-brakes only work on the rear tires, then what chevoon says is right... since turning is up to the front tires
the front turns while the rear slides due to brake lock making it easier to make a 180deg. or spin all out. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jayson Jan 12 2003, 06:31 AM
opps, your right, I was refering to the front tires locking up. Yup, thats right then.

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Jan 12 2003, 09:07 PM
jayson, u are wrong about gaining speed from locking up the tyres... im sorry dude but just coz u spam here lots, doesnt mean that u always know what u r saying

i havnt insulted u in anyway, i just think that ur a little shitty, and saying that im insulting u because u r wrong, and u obviously dont like to be wrong, so u try to explain ur incorrect theory to teh end, and even convince that tainted guy that ur right... rofl

ur the one who is insulting ppl from what i see, telling ppl they are chumps etc

your wrong, accept that u r wrong, and that the following statement is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULL-F**kING-SHIT

<Jayson> When u lock up ur tyres u actually GAIN SPEED


hahaha im laughing at u right now dude

Posted by: Jayson Jan 12 2003, 09:26 PM
I'm not wrong on this. I went to Skip Barber school for a week last summer, and this was one of the main things that shocked me the most.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong, I've addmitted to it before, and I'll addmitt to be wrong again in the future, but this is something I am right about.

Me friend Shields even says this, and he goes to Skips school every summer. He is even going to the UK to try out for a racing team. I trust him and his knowledge. This is something that is right.

Laugh all you want. It doesn't bother me. If you think locking up your tires is a good way to stop, then why don't you see any one doing it? Because you don't stop, your momentum increases and your car is less stable.

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Jan 12 2003, 09:33 PM
momentum and speed are two different things

u said "when u lock up your tyres u actually gain speed" and that statement is wrong

u can only gain SPEED from have some sort of force, and grip to get that force to the road

Posted by: karasac Jan 12 2003, 09:58 PM
actaully in this situation speed and momentum can be considerd the same, cuz the more speed u have the more momentum u carry

Posted by: Jayson Jan 12 2003, 10:00 PM
Didn't want to do this, buuuuuutttttt,

By locking up your tires, your creating a greater force on your tires then just by driving normaly. The lost of traction creates less resistence and your momentum will increase for a short period of time.

Newton says, once in motion the car will continue in motion, and the lack of traction (caused by locking your tires ) up between the tires and the road will speed up the car until traction is gained once again, which at higher speeds/momentum will take longer to aquire.


Posted by: karasac Jan 12 2003, 10:09 PM
u should have done it in the first place, would have saved a lot of posts

Posted by: Jayson Jan 12 2003, 10:10 PM
I know, didn't feellike thinking though blink.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Jan 13 2003, 10:23 AM
u felt like getting more posts instead? thatd be right wink2.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Jan 13 2003, 02:27 PM
it's no difference to what you're doing kuruma dry.gif

Posted by: Jayson Jan 13 2003, 04:40 PM
I just don't feel like explaining things and putting you in your place, but you didn't leave me much of a choice, so........... I did biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Jan 14 2003, 10:31 AM
err how did u 'put me in my place'

ur original statement is still wrong, even if u explain it better now, u still wont admit that ur orig statement is wrong coz ur all stuck up

Posted by: Darth Vader Jan 14 2003, 11:52 AM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ Jan 12 2003, 03:05 PM)
ur the one who is insulting ppl from what i see, telling ppl they are chumps etc


hmm..jayson, just stop all the spam, delete them all... then the members will start respecting u...

Ur estimated redundant post is about 800 i think...



Posted by: Jayson Jan 14 2003, 03:53 PM
No, my original statment wasn't wrong, I just didn't go into detail about it because I didn't feel like it.

Posted by: RiceFx306 Feb 13 2003, 01:58 AM
Front wheel drives can drift...check this video for those who don't believe. tongue.gif http://www.eddiesun.net/~trey/VtecAtlanta.wmv

Technically I do believe THAT is drifting... biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jayson Feb 13 2003, 10:30 AM
your crazy link doesn't work

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Feb 13 2003, 11:20 AM
hehehe... yeah it doesn't work... and i wanted to see it too

Posted by: Jayson Feb 13 2003, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I want to see if it's sliding or drifting, I'm really curious now

Posted by: S15-guy Feb 13 2003, 12:53 PM
oh yeah, and also you should check out vids of me drifting in my S15 here is the link

http://www.bullshitlink.com/toptenhottestguys/S15/drifting.avi


Posted by: Jayson Feb 13 2003, 01:06 PM
nice link happy.gif I love the S15, it's so pimp

Posted by: S15-guy Feb 13 2003, 01:07 PM
i know, did you see the part where all the hot chicks came up and started rubbing their naked bodies against the windows?

Posted by: RiceFx306 Feb 13 2003, 07:14 PM
Sorry the site is currently down...when it gets back up I'll repost the link...

Posted by: Jayson Feb 13 2003, 08:24 PM
ah, good cover up

Posted by: karasac Feb 13 2003, 08:43 PM
QUOTE (RiceFx306 @ Feb 13 2003, 07:11 PM)
Sorry the site is currently down...when it gets back up I'll repost the link...

u do that

although its probably sliding and not drifting

Posted by: Jayson Feb 13 2003, 08:55 PM
w3rd

Posted by: S15-guy Feb 13 2003, 10:56 PM
yeah, my site is down too sad.gif although I will try my hardest to get it up so u can see all the naked chicks around my car

Posted by: S15-guy Feb 13 2003, 10:59 PM
QUOTE (S15-guy @ Feb 13 2003, 10:53 PM)
I will try my hardest to get it up

OMG, cant believe I just said that, that was a really bad choice of words when talking about naked chicks laugh.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Feb 13 2003, 11:08 PM
sad... real sad sleep.gif
but you go try your 'hardest' tongue.gif

Posted by: Jayson Feb 14 2003, 12:02 PM
Is it really that 'hard' to get 'it' up?

Posted by: bunta_boi Feb 14 2003, 02:07 PM
old topic

Posted by: S15-guy Feb 17 2003, 08:13 PM
i have no problems getting it up, maybe this topic should be closed, as almost every valid point has been adressed

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Feb 17 2003, 08:24 PM
why don't we leave it to the mods/admins to make up that decision
threads shouldn't be meant to be closed unecessarily... only thing needed is to stop spamming since newbies might want to add something onto this... and when they do a search... they can still comment not needing to start a new thread... creating less hassles...

Posted by: *Capsulesâ„¢* Mar 5 2003, 07:16 PM
Someone think of a New Theory of FF Drifting . . .

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 5 2003, 07:23 PM
huh.gif the hell?
one theory already created enough ruckus and flaming...
you want another debate? wink2.gif

Posted by: *Capsulesâ„¢* Mar 5 2003, 07:29 PM
nvm then . . . topics old . . .

Posted by: Jayson Mar 5 2003, 08:39 PM
w3rd, FR>FF

Posted by: *Capsulesâ„¢* Mar 5 2003, 09:48 PM
heh heh, I was thinking the samething. FR! laugh.gif

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 6 2003, 09:21 PM
only way of drifting FF is if u know how to oversteer the car...thas all happy.gif

Posted by: karasac Mar 6 2003, 10:28 PM
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Mar 6 2003, 09:18 PM)
drifting FF

lets not start that again

Posted by: Integra racR Mar 8 2003, 01:25 PM
this will be my first posting on this message board. I have a video of an integra drifting at a racetrack but i dont know how to post it.

Posted by: S15-guy Mar 8 2003, 01:26 PM
QUOTE (karasac @ Mar 6 2003, 10:25 PM)
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Mar 6 2003, 09:18 PM)
drifting FF

lets not start that again

w3rd

Posted by: Perry Mar 8 2003, 01:28 PM
QUOTE (Integra racR @ Mar 8 2003, 01:22 PM)
this will be my first posting on this message board. I have a video of an integra drifting at a racetrack but i dont know how to post it.

What's the size of the video ?

If it's under 5 mb, please use my personal web space.

Upload the file here,
http://www.go2id.net/phpupload

After you are done uploading, you can find the file you uploaded here,
http://www.go2id.net/phpupload/files

Posted by: Integra racR Mar 8 2003, 01:33 PM
alright i sent it.

Posted by: Integra racR Mar 8 2003, 01:43 PM
I think i figured it out now see if this works. http://www.go2id.net/phpupload/files/Acura%20Integra%20Drift.mpeg

Posted by: Perry Mar 8 2003, 01:55 PM
I think I saw that video, I even put that up on my site for download before. I was told that it was drifting, but after all these discussion and arguments, I am convinced that is only sliding.

Posted by: S15-guy Mar 8 2003, 01:59 PM
my pulsar drifts better than that sad.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 8 2003, 02:59 PM
oohhh... sweetness...
front wheel drive drifting/sliding/whatever... biggrin.gif

Posted by: karasac Mar 8 2003, 04:18 PM
that was only a slide, not a drift

Posted by: Jayson Mar 9 2003, 05:23 PM
w3rd

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Mar 10 2003, 05:56 AM
yeh it was a slide, but really, who cares?

he looked like he was having fun

cant we all just get along?? happy.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 10 2003, 09:38 AM
hehe... coming from kuruma? wow... tongue.gif
but i agree nevertheless... i think that was the integra guy's intention anyway... biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jayson Mar 10 2003, 10:56 AM
tru, but when he tries to say it's a drift, then I get all mad.gif

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 11 2003, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ Mar 10 2003, 06:53 AM)
yeh it was a slide, but really, who cares?

he looked like he was having fun

cant we all just get along?? happy.gif

funky...i like your style....

the guy wasnt racing anybody so wats the big deal? he didnt come up to the camera and say "look at my DRIFT!! FFs>FR!!!"....all for the sake of driving i say cool.gif

Posted by: karasac Mar 11 2003, 04:13 PM
true
but the guy that posted the vid says it was drifting

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 11 2003, 04:19 PM
yah but i was gettin the impression that everybody was hatin on the integra so uhhh yah.....but its all good.....

btw i love your sig kara....1337!!!

Posted by: karasac Mar 11 2003, 04:31 PM
we're not hating on integs,thems quick little buggers, we're just hating on the fact that the guy called that a drift

and witch part of my sig do u like?

Posted by: Integra racR Mar 11 2003, 06:07 PM
sorry guys, that wasen't real drifting but this is the real deal here, pay close attention you might learn something about real drifting. I suggest you get off the computer and go out and mimmic this natural skill. enjoy
http://www.go2id.net/phpupload/files/hownottodrift.mpeg
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Perry Mar 11 2003, 06:27 PM
He got some mad ninja skill there. *thumbs up*

Posted by: karasac Mar 11 2003, 06:59 PM
LOL

thats what happens when u watch to much initial d and think any moron in any car can drift

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 11 2003, 10:09 PM
what a dumbass... he sure wasn't having fun laugh.gif

Posted by: Jayson Mar 13 2003, 11:21 PM
Mad Ninja Skills?!? WHERE!

Posted by: *Capsulesâ„¢* Mar 15 2003, 09:14 AM
He turned to late . . . freak, he can't control his turn. dry.gif

Posted by: Jayson Mar 15 2003, 09:05 PM
freak indeed!

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 18 2003, 04:05 PM
QUOTE (karasac @ Mar 11 2003, 05:28 PM)
and witch part of my sig do u like?

indy was the dog's name.....lol classic movie... happy.gif

Posted by: karasac Mar 18 2003, 05:02 PM
thats in response to me being in indy's sig happy.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Mar 18 2003, 06:24 PM
the guy in that hownottodrift vid is suprisingly bad

he could have at least pulled the handbrake a bit earlier..

my friend tried to drift my cousins magna once, on a famous corner in adelaide (made famous by the great drift kings, the corner features in many mags)

for all you americans a magna is a 4 door medium sized family car, which is FF (POS cars in my opinion, and i mean in its own class, not just coz its FF)

btw this friend of mine isnt a very good driver, anyways he gets into the car, and i tell him "take it easy at first, u havnt driven this car before, and take the corner at higher speed once u get more confidence"

well he threw my words right out teh window, and approached this corner at about 60km/h, gave himself no time to slow down, and simply turned left and ripped the handbrake (keep in mind this is a 90 degree corner)

the cars rear end swung out, and he tried to countersteer, but the front wheels then gave way too, because he was simply going to fast. he spun 2 or 3 times, and narrowly missed a tap which was sticking out of the ground, and a fire hydrant, passing between them with only a foot either way.

he was lucky he didnt do too much damage to teh car, only bent a control rod at the back end, when the rear hit teh curb

again: dont let ur friends drive ur car, unless they have real skill!

Posted by: karasac Mar 18 2003, 06:34 PM
FF=no drift

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 18 2003, 06:39 PM
agreed happy.gif

plus: as an FF is powered from the front and is being dragged, rather than pushed. Drifting would only enduce further drag and slow down your car, rather than the outcome of an FR drifting...

dry.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Mar 18 2003, 07:01 PM
i hope u guys arent directing thos replies to myself, because i know that FF's cant drift, i want simply telling u a story or how my friend tried to drift

we all know that u cant drift an FF, but that will never stop people from trying...

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 18 2003, 07:03 PM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ Mar 18 2003, 07:58 PM)
i hope u guys arent directing thos replies to myself

not yet sugoi happy.gif ......

theres a line. and we wait til you cross it... biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Mar 18 2003, 08:06 PM
im sorry man i dont understand a word of what ur saying

as pauline hanson would say "please explain"

Posted by: karasac Mar 18 2003, 10:44 PM
not directing it toward u, just simply restating it

Posted by: Jayson Mar 19 2003, 05:15 PM
I *heart* boobies

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 19 2003, 05:16 PM
QUOTE (karasac @ Mar 18 2003, 11:41 PM)
not directing it toward u, just simply restating it

ty happy.gif

Posted by: Jayson Mar 19 2003, 05:17 PM
Ty? I have a friend named Ty

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 19 2003, 05:25 PM
ty = thank you

ohmy.gif

Posted by: Jayson Mar 19 2003, 05:32 PM
Oh, well, say thank you then

Posted by: Guest Mar 19 2003, 07:25 PM
3 words LEFT FOOT BRAKING, deny it all you want, FWDs can drift heres the proof.

http://www.modernracer.com/tips/leftfootbraking.html

Posted by: karasac Mar 19 2003, 07:38 PM
oook, all that says is how to eliminate understeer durring a corner,

and if ur back wheels did lock durring the corner, that means ur dragging ur rear, hence the term "ass dragging"

deny it all u want but FF's cant do what FR's can

Posted by: S15-guy Mar 19 2003, 08:18 PM
user posted image

look at the piss poor photoshop smoke coming from its wheels laugh.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 19 2003, 09:03 PM
QUOTE (Guest @ Mar 19 2003, 10:22 PM)
3 words LEFT FOOT BRAKING, deny it all you want, FWDs can drift heres the proof.

http://www.modernracer.com/tips/leftfootbraking.html

isn't left foot braking what shingo does in initial d? huh.gif
did the manager of the gas station say that the eg6 drifted when he was explaining left foot braking? unsure.gif
QUOTE
user posted image

laugh.gif

Posted by: Perry Mar 19 2003, 09:36 PM
QUOTE (|[ .tainted. ]| @ Mar 19 2003, 09:00 PM)
did the manager of the gas station say that the eg6 drifted when he was explaining left foot braking? unsure.gif

Nope, I make sure he didn't. smile.gif

All he said was left foot braking is used to correct the drive line and run smoother.

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 19 2003, 09:42 PM
ah ok. i don't have the episodes with me to verify it that's why. everything's from utter memory. happy.gif

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 20 2003, 02:43 PM
didnt kouichirou clearly say that FF dont drift?

Posted by: Jayson Mar 23 2003, 08:55 PM
sad.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 23 2003, 09:39 PM
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Mar 20 2003, 05:40 PM)
didnt kouichirou clearly say that FF dont drift?

don't think so.

Posted by: Jayson Mar 23 2003, 10:13 PM
well, they can't anyways tongue.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 24 2003, 04:21 PM
QUOTE (Jayson @ Mar 24 2003, 01:10 AM)
well, they can't anyways tongue.gif

if you say so. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 24 2003, 04:28 PM
QUOTE (|[ .tainted. ]| @ Mar 23 2003, 10:36 PM)
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Mar 20 2003, 05:40 PM)
didnt kouichirou clearly say that FF dont drift?

don't think so.

then was it uhhh watzisname.....hachi-go guy.....with the big mouth....aaah i dunno....you guyz know right? happy.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 24 2003, 04:45 PM
i don't remember anyone saying anything about fwd's not drifting.

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 24 2003, 04:47 PM
when "hachi-go guy" was talking about buying a car i think....wait til i finish watching some of the eps.....i hope i can prove it... sad.gif

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 24 2003, 04:49 PM
QUOTE (bunta_boi @ Mar 24 2003, 07:44 PM)
when "hachi-go guy" was talking about buying a car i think....wait til i finish watching some of the eps.....i hope i can prove it... sad.gif

itsuki... that's his name...

Posted by: bunta_boi Mar 24 2003, 04:57 PM
thank you....

i rmb now! when they were describing how the eg6 cant drift, so shingo uses the left-foot braking technique...i dont have that ep but yah...thas when he said it...the manager

Posted by: |[ .tainted. ]| Mar 24 2003, 05:01 PM
really? huh.gif
i don't remember... wink2.gif
wonder if anyone can attest to what you're saying...

Posted by: Jayson Mar 24 2003, 06:16 PM
No one ever said that in the series I believe

Posted by: Squirrel Mar 30 2003, 11:23 PM
I just checked the manga and Yuichi says nothing about drifting when explaining the left foot braking technique

Posted by: Jayson Apr 3 2003, 09:42 AM
blink.gif

Posted by: Mo-EG Apr 18 2003, 11:44 PM
the battle wit Iketani and Shingo...what was Shingo doing while Iketani was drifting? was he power sliding or Drifting?

Posted by: karasac Apr 19 2003, 01:28 AM
most of the time hes just grip driving but in the corvers that he cant turn his hand all the way(since his hand was taped to the wheel) he pulled the e-brake to slide around the corner

a FF cant drift, only slide

Posted by: Mo-EG Apr 19 2003, 11:24 AM
im not talkin about the gum tape match, but ok! haha i watched it again and yeah i notice that Shingo was using the E-brake, then releasing it, then using it and releasing it.

Posted by: karasac Apr 19 2003, 01:05 PM
oh haha, i just read it really quick and didnt see the "iketani" part

he was just gripping and left foot breaking in the corners

Posted by: Guest_ryosuke Apr 21 2003, 11:23 PM
So what exactly have I been missing here? I've been gone for awhile... all my vehicles have been stolen and recovered. I'm moving to Hawaii, so I guess I'll be checking out the "drift" scene over there. But drift competition down here in Southern Cal is getting better and better.

Posted by: karasac Apr 22 2003, 12:05 AM
ur cars were stolen? that blows

moving to hawaii huh?

aloha happy.gif

Posted by: Alex Apr 22 2003, 08:07 AM
To those who are a bit clueless, an FF car can not drift because theres nothing to keep the rear of the car from sliding out of control in a corner. If you just picture the wheels of an FF car in an attmept to drift the front wheels are turning and pulling the car at the same time so counter-steering would just result in the rear being thrown to the left from the right side if it was a left turn and then resulting in the car spinning out. Shingo is very talented to be able to e-brake slide with one hand with a limited turning radius to control it.


pretty good knowlege for a 12 year old, huh?

Posted by: karasac Apr 22 2003, 09:24 AM
not really

jk happy.gif

Posted by: Alex Apr 22 2003, 01:45 PM
before i read the jk i was about to yell "you bastard!!"

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 22 2003, 01:54 PM
QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ Apr 22 2003, 08:04 AM)



pretty good knowlege for a 12 year old, huh?

not really happy.gif

Posted by: Indecisive Apr 23 2003, 07:37 AM
QUOTE (eightsixdrifter9 @ Apr 22 2003, 08:04 AM)
To those who are a bit clueless, an FF car can not drift because theres nothing to keep the rear of the car from sliding out of control in a corner.

untrue.




that's wut walls are for wink2.gif

Posted by: bunta_boi Apr 24 2003, 03:15 PM
new question: why does pulling the e-brake while turning make the back swing out? the back wheels lock up, so why does it go even faster and go out?

Posted by: Perry Apr 24 2003, 07:34 PM
Because when you turning, the whole car's momentum still trying to push the car to the forward direction. Pulling the ebrake will result in a tremendous lost of traction at the rear. Then momemtum comes in to play. cool.gif

Posted by: shuLi Apr 25 2003, 02:43 AM
QUOTE (Perry @ Apr 25 2003, 02:31 PM)
Because when you turning, the whole car's momentum still trying to push the car to the forward direction. Pulling the ebrake will result in a tremendous lost of traction at the rear. Then momemtum comes in to play. cool.gif

no traction would mean, less friction, which in turn would mean less resistance on the road surface thus more speed...?... blink.gif

Posted by: awddrifter Apr 25 2003, 07:04 PM
I haven't read all the posts so sorry if this has been repeated...

It all depends on what you consider drifting to be. If you consider drifting to be getting sideways before a corner and straightening out at the exit, then sure, an FF can drift. As for me though, I consider "drifting" taking series of connected corners sideways. This is impossible with an FF. You can only slide sideways for one corner, and you can't "flick" the rear end of your car to the other side to take the other corner sideways (even if you somehow acheive to change directions, all of your speed will be eaten up anyways). This can only be ahceived with AWD/4WD and RWD cars.

Also, drifting FF is EASIER than drifting RWD and AWD cars. I've ass-dragged FF's (taking one corner sideways and straightening out at exit), or what some of you may call "drifting an FF" laugh.gif laugh.gif All you have to have is just a lot of balls, since you have to enter the corner a lot faster than a rwd car does. You don't have to throttle steer like RWD (the hardest part is holding the drift, not initiating it, with RWD). All you have to do is just turn in, pull e-brake, and slide through the corner. No throttle steer, since any throttle added will make you understeer.

bunta_boi: You don't go faster when you drift, it just seems like it. Drifting is not used in racing events (other than Rallys) because it is, and always will be the slower way to take a corner on pavement, except for extremely tight hairpin corners. Drifting looks cooler though cool.gif . Watch some Best Motoring or Option Videos and you will know what I mean, or just take a physics class tongue.gif

EDIT:

QUOTE
no traction would mean, less friction, which in turn would mean less resistance on the road surface thus more speed...?...


You get less traction, but more friction when you drift. Traction doesn't equal friction. If you got less friction when you drifted then your tires would wear slower than driving around a corner normally laugh.gif


Posted by: shuLi Apr 27 2003, 01:22 AM
i see.... blink.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 01:37 AM
look ff jus cant drift if you think about it FF cars understeers when entering corners in high speeds they cant drift
besides when you drift you need weight transfer right?
in a fr car most of the weight is transferred to the front and the rear is pushing the car while the front controls the direction the car is going
but in a ff car there is no force in the rear to help slide the car while the front controls the slide(as ff cant drift)
instead the rear is jus thrown around and dragged
as there is no force propelling the rear in the first place

another thing gtr can drift because of itz 4wd system just like some evos can i had a vid of gtrs drifting, they are a good car, besides most of the touring gtrs are FR

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 01:39 AM
oh but i deleted it, you can find it in kazza tho
but if you dont think so itz koo
jus trying to make a point cuz 4wds can drift but requires different methods
unlike ff which is jus plain impossible

Posted by: shuLi Apr 27 2003, 01:44 AM
man... is that a VAN drifting on ur avatar? laugh.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Apr 27 2003, 05:53 AM
a VAN!?!?!

rofl, its a hachi cant u tell?

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 12:37 PM
heh
did that really look like a van? lolz

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 27 2003, 12:44 PM
did anyone say a van??? http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au/jmsvan.html

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 12:57 PM
nice van happy.gif
where is that truck located? jap?

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 27 2003, 01:50 PM
Adelaide, Australia!

http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 02:31 PM
realli?
thats coo
hmmm...thats a great site
wish cali get some of the cars aus has sigsh dry.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 03:25 PM
do you get the s15 in aus too!?!

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 27 2003, 03:31 PM
yeah, the S15 and S14 got a domestic release, so did the Evo VI and now also the Evo VII. The STi has been around for a few years too.

Skylines, RX7's early evos, soares and silvias you have to import from japan (or buy one from someone who has imported one). This is not really a huge problem tho, as the cars are cheaper in Japan, and we drive on the same side of the road, meaning the steering wheel is on the same side.

Posted by: shuLi Apr 27 2003, 05:07 PM
HOLY SHEIT! blink.gif blink.gif

s00ped VAN!..... wow! laugh.gif

oh yeh... and bout that "van" in ur avatar.... i really did look like a van....
factors that contributed to the "van" look:
1. unusually tall (did u change it?)
2. 1:00am in the morning biggrin.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 05:43 PM
to shuli
well yea in a way the picture was changed cuz it was bigger but i jus stuffed it in there cuz it looked cool,
and about the 1:00am thingy, itz saturday here in cali, no skoo means sleep late and check out cars and stuff, isnt weekends meant for cars?
lolz happy.gif

and to the s15 guy
jus a question do you haf a s15? if so can you post a pic so i can see? tongue.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 05:44 PM
lolz
jus one more thing. isnt this thread about ff powerslides?

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 27 2003, 05:55 PM
QUOTE (TRD-hachi-roku @ Apr 27 2003, 05:40 PM)


and to the s15 guy
jus a question do you haf a s15? if so can you post a pic so i can see? tongue.gif

only in GT3 laugh.gif

I drive a pulsar

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 06:58 PM
o...well thats still kool, i got the s15 in gt3 rite after i saved enough money racing wit the trueno, in the same races over and over and over again i was literally falling asleep...lolz^_^

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 27 2003, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (TRD-hachi-roku @ Apr 27 2003, 06:55 PM)
o...well thats still kool, i got the s15 in gt3 rite after i saved enough money racing wit the trueno, in the same races over and over and over again i was literally falling asleep...lolz^_^

SAME, my pattern of purchase was

1. trueno
2. S15
3. R34 GTR

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 27 2003, 09:09 PM
my third was something else i forgot what but still s15!!! biggrin.gif

Posted by: shuLi Apr 28 2003, 01:51 AM
QUOTE (S15-guy @ Apr 28 2003, 10:28 AM)
yeah, the S15 and S14 got a domestic release, so did the Evo VI and now also the Evo VII. The STi has been around for a few years too.

Skylines, RX7's early evos, soares and silvias you have to import from japan (or buy one from someone who has imported one). This is not really a huge problem tho, as the cars are cheaper in Japan, and we drive on the same side of the road, meaning the steering wheel is on the same side.

yep yepz..... happy.gif
dad juss bought a soarer the other day... man...
i love it.... cant wait to drive it.... probably drive it this w33k... tongue.gif

gotz L's this year.. w00t w00t!
and im learning in a camry!! haha biggrin.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 28 2003, 03:25 PM
man i prob hafta learn in ma dads corolla...not gts either the 99 one sighs dry.gif then i'll prob try to buy the 240 in a lil bit...when i get me license and money...soon lolz tongue.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma Apr 28 2003, 10:04 PM
hahaah Shuli i did my learning in a camry

it made it easy, because my mum also has a camry, and i was able to practice easily

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 28 2003, 10:41 PM
did you try to power slide it?

Posted by: TRD 4A-GE Apr 29 2003, 01:55 AM
QUOTE (TRD-hachi-roku @ Apr 27 2003, 01:34 AM)
look ff jus cant drift if you think about it FF cars understeers when entering corners in high speeds they cant drift
besides when you drift you need weight transfer right?
in a fr car most of the weight is transferred to the front and the rear is pushing the car while the front controls the direction the car is going
but in a ff car there is no force in the rear to help slide the car while the front controls the slide(as ff cant drift)
instead the rear is jus thrown around and dragged
as there is no force propelling the rear in the first place

another thing gtr can drift because of itz 4wd system just like some evos can i had a vid of gtrs drifting, they are a good car, besides most of the touring gtrs are FR

well... weight transfer can be done easily when u r going downhill.. it can just mimic a FR drift if u know ur car well..

another thing.. i pressumed that GTR u are referring to is R32... that car is surprisingly difficult to drift on like Evo due to its design and body weight. I didnt say i cant be drift at all... but it's engine is too heavy

Posted by: awddrifter Apr 29 2003, 02:22 PM
QUOTE (TRD 4A-GE @ Apr 29 2003, 01:52 AM)
well... weight transfer can be done easily when u r going downhill.. it can just mimic a FR drift if u know ur car well..

another thing.. i pressumed that GTR u are referring to is R32... that car is surprisingly difficult to drift on like Evo due to its design and body weight. I didnt say i cant be drift at all... but it's engine is too heavy

sure, you can weight transfer in a FF, but you still can't "drift" it. look at my post on page 17 smile.gif

Also for GTR's drifting.... GTR's actually aren't a bad car for drifting. Ive seen a bunch of drift vids from japan, australia, and the UK of people drifting in their GTR's (mostly R32's). I dunno if they drift them in 4wd or rwd mode (you can change it by putting in a fuse). They also use skylines called GTS-turbo's, which are lighter than GTR's and have a RWD layout.

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 29 2003, 02:52 PM
QUOTE (awddrifter @ Apr 29 2003, 02:19 PM)
QUOTE (TRD 4A-GE @ Apr 29 2003, 01:52 AM)
well... weight transfer can be done easily when u r going downhill.. it can just mimic a FR drift if u know ur car well..

another thing.. i pressumed that GTR u are referring to is R32... that car is surprisingly difficult to drift on like Evo due to its design and body weight. I didnt say i cant be drift at all... but it's engine is too heavy

sure, you can weight transfer in a FF, but you still can't "drift" it. look at my post on page 17 smile.gif

Also for GTR's drifting.... GTR's actually aren't a bad car for drifting. Ive seen a bunch of drift vids from japan, australia, and the UK of people drifting in their GTR's (mostly R32's). I dunno if they drift them in 4wd or rwd mode (you can change it by putting in a fuse). They also use skylines called GTS-turbo's, which are lighter than GTR's and have a RWD layout.

w3rd, GTRs can drift, people just think that because the guy on Initial D doesnt, its impossible to do. Sure, its a fairly heavy car, but still light compared to other cars. Remember drifting is not JUST downhill, its can also be done on a circuit, and while the GTR maybe hard to race downhill, it can circuit drift with the best of them

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 29 2003, 03:28 PM
yupz my point exactly, and especially when the gtr's haf such a special 4wd system, notice i am saying 4wd, and not awd, cuz i think that the gtr only goes into 4wd mode when the comp feel like the front wheels are gonna go out of control. but this is just my opinion, really correct me if i'm wrong about this, and about evos they are good drifters, cuz the body of the car is light, and the engine is also quite lite, come on how heavy can a 2000cc 4cylinder turbo weigh? the gtr i kno itz heavy, but the evo? and i haf seen many circuit drifts on a evo, the video u can find on kazaa, cuz when i reformat ma comp i lost it. biggrin.gif

Posted by: S15-guy Apr 29 2003, 03:48 PM
evo is still probably a better drifter, its just that I wanted to point ou that the GTR should not entirely be excluded from drift. A skyline GTS-T would be more suitable for drift (as shown http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au/newr33.html)

The GTR can be switched into RWD mode by pulling out a fuse that controlls power being sent to the front wheels.

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku Apr 29 2003, 03:51 PM
wow
really, and all this time i thought it was automated, sighs
i always believed that both the gtr and evo are good drifters
wish i had both cars
lolz! laugh.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 1 2003, 02:58 AM
when i was younger, yeh i did try and slide the camry a bit

i did manage to lose traction on some corners, and it was easy to regain traction - point it and floor, lol

this was in teh wet, and after driving the car much more, ive decided that its handling is absolute poo


but, what can u expect from a camry?

Posted by: S15-guy May 1 2003, 11:19 AM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ May 1 2003, 02:55 AM)
when i was younger, yeh i did try and slide the camry a bit

i did manage to lose traction on some corners, and it was easy to regain traction - point it and floor, lol

this was in teh wet, and after driving the car much more, ive decided that its handling is absolute poo


but, what can u expect from a camry?

w3rd, at least its better than an avalon! *shudder*


Posted by: Dampire May 1 2003, 02:00 PM
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 6 2002, 01:49 PM)
Well as a matter of fact FF drifting is possible. Drifting a FF takes a very very skilled drifter because it takes advanced techniques to drift a FF. Most people dont drift with a FF because of the difficulties that lie ahead, so they stick with thier rather easyier FR drifitng cars. But FF is possible its a matter of using your brake and gas to hold the drift and regain control in the end of the drift. To Drift a FF you are probably skilled. You may call it "ass dragging" but in all actuality you are drifting. Sliding and drifting are two diffrent things. And if you get the meanings that relate to a car drift you will see that a FF car falls right in the Drift catagorey. I look for a while for imformation on this and i found it. The fact that you people let Karasac tell you thiers no such thing as drifitng and you all just followed him and said thier "is no FF drifitng", well iI hate to brake it to you, but your wrong. So all you FF drivers out thier keep practicing, remmeber dont use your E-Brake because using that will not be a drift. You must learn to initiate it with the foot brake. The best way to drift your FF is the drift at the Exit of a corner. Your car my slow down dramaticlly if your line isnt prefect if you try to apex the corner. But if you want to have fun and dont care about the race by all means drift the hell out of that corner.

But Neo Vash(or anyone here), can u explain how i can make a drift in a Saveiro ( Here in Brazil is a famous and a good car, was develop by VW Motors). Here comes a picture...
Obs: wasn't my car... but is similar...
user posted image

Posted by: S15-guy May 1 2003, 03:06 PM
QUOTE (Dampire @ May 1 2003, 01:57 PM)
QUOTE (Neo Vash @ Dec 6 2002, 01:49 PM)
Well as a matter of fact FF drifting is possible. Drifting a FF takes a very very skilled drifter because it takes advanced techniques to drift a FF. Most people dont drift with a FF because of the difficulties that lie ahead, so they stick with thier rather easyier FR drifitng cars. But FF is possible its a matter of using your brake and gas to hold the drift and regain control in the end of the drift. To Drift a FF you are probably skilled. You may call it "ass dragging" but in all actuality you are drifting. Sliding and drifting are two diffrent things. And if you get the meanings that relate to a car drift you will see that a FF car falls right in the Drift catagorey. I look for a while for imformation on this and i found it. The fact that you people let Karasac tell you thiers no such thing as drifitng and you all just followed him and said thier "is no FF drifitng", well iI hate to brake it to you, but your wrong. So all you FF drivers out thier keep practicing, remmeber dont use your E-Brake because using that will not be a drift. You must learn to initiate it with the foot brake. The best way to drift your FF is the drift at the Exit of a corner. Your car my slow down dramaticlly if your line isnt prefect if you try to apex the corner. But if you want to have fun and dont care about the race by all means drift the hell out of that corner.

But Neo Vash(or anyone here), can u explain how i can make a drift in a Saveiro ( Here in Brazil is a famous and a good car, was develop by VW Motors). Here comes a picture...
Obs: wasn't my car... but is similar...
user posted image

it reminds me of a commadore ute

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 3 2003, 05:42 AM
QUOTE
it reminds me of a commadore ute


me too S15. the front lights look like a VY

Posted by: S15-guy May 3 2003, 11:55 PM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ May 3 2003, 05:39 AM)
QUOTE
it reminds me of a commadore ute


me too S15. the front lights look like a VY

maybe its just coz i havent seen one for like 5 months, everthing looks like a commadore

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 4 2003, 09:37 AM
whats a commodore?
any mpics?

Posted by: S15-guy May 4 2003, 10:31 AM
user posted image

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 4 2003, 10:34 AM
nice

Posted by: S15-guy May 4 2003, 10:37 AM
QUOTE (TRD-hachi-roku @ May 4 2003, 10:31 AM)
nice

yeah, if you have a family laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 4 2003, 10:38 AM
is it a sedan?

Posted by: S15-guy May 4 2003, 10:51 AM
yep, and wagon, and ute

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 4 2003, 11:00 AM
do you haf any of itz specs?

Posted by: S15-guy May 4 2003, 11:09 AM
http://www.holden.com

check out the website

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 5 2003, 10:04 PM
TRD hachi, holdens are OK, but they are crap when u compare them to japanese imports...


on australian roads every second car is either a Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore (both large family cars), and i hate it.

the car magazines will often compare an aussie car with the japanese equivalent, to find that the jap car is better on fuel, faster, handles better, and only loses out on rear leg room. (typical skyline R34 4 door vs Holden commodore executive comparo)

btw the car pictured by S15 is the brand new Holden VY commodore SS model (SS means super sports, and it comes with a 5.0 litre V8, not bad if u wanna tow)

Posted by: S15-guy May 6 2003, 11:57 AM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ May 5 2003, 10:01 PM)

on australian roads every second car is either a Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore (both large family cars), and i hate it.

w3rd!!!!!!

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 6 2003, 04:00 PM
hey isnt a trd hachi a jap import?
lolz
laugh.gif

Posted by: Dampire May 6 2003, 04:29 PM
ohmy.gif Hey, nobody here gonna help me whith my question??? unsure.gif
I wanna know how do i make a drift using that car??? blink.gif


Posted by: S15-guy May 6 2003, 06:04 PM
QUOTE (Dampire @ May 6 2003, 04:26 PM)
ohmy.gif  Hey, nobody here gonna help me whith my question??? unsure.gif
I wanna know how do i make a drift using that car??? blink.gif

well, I am assuming that your car has a FR layout, so that means you are looking in the wrong thread, as this is a debate about FF drifitng.

I think there is another post that is pinned underneath this one somewhere ([EDIT] i found it, click https://idforums.net/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=107 [/EDIT]) , and also on the IDW website.

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 6 2003, 09:36 PM
havent we went off subject like um... way off for like the last couple of pages and more? lolz dun matter biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 7 2003, 02:33 AM
FF drifting doesnt exist

^^ there we go, back on topic! ^^

Posted by: Rayp May 7 2003, 01:44 PM
Just by curiosity, what's your (anyone) definition of a drift (or the most popular one)? I read many definition floating around on the net, many very vague, other very specific... Yet, if you take it to the very large sense, a drift is just sliding through a corner (rally style)...


Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 7 2003, 01:57 PM
are you out of ur fricking mind??? wat u jus said can start yet another debate, drifting is a way to control a slide through hair pins, although on certain turns it is not as fast as gripping but there are just some turns that drifting is the best way to attack it. and besides rally drifting is basically the fastest way to attack corners ona rally track, and there is difference between the different style of drifting(i dun really kno much, any errors plz dun kill me) biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 8 2003, 07:43 PM
QUOTE
drifting is a way to control a slide through hair pins, although on certain turns it is not as fast as gripping but there are just some turns that drifting is the best way to attack it. and besides rally drifting is basically the fastest way to attack corners ona rally track, and there is difference between the different style of drifting


good points TRD, but..

i think u mean corners, not just hairpins.

also, drifting is hardly ever as fast as grip driving. when u say some turns drifting is the best way to attact it i think u mean when u have multiple corners close together, and u can link them with one drift?

the reason drift techniques are used so much in rally, is because of the surface of the track. because they are mostly driving on low grip surfaces, to try and grip drive corners would be very slow, as there is not much grip to be had

Posted by: TRD-hachi-roku May 8 2003, 08:05 PM
thats what i meant for the rally drift ech exactly, and for the tarmac dirfts, what u said is tru, but there are jus some hair pin corners that gripping is too slower than drifting, but anyways, as long as we come to a mutual understanding that drift is not jus sliding over a track, cuz thats power sliding, and i dun wanna get into that right now...heh tongue.gif

Posted by: ryosuke May 8 2003, 08:43 PM
Drifting is the loss of traction at the rear wheels while power is provided also at the rear wheels with direction of drift being controlled by minute movements from the accelerator, the steering wheel, and weight balance. Power sliding is in general a loss of traction of all wheels, with the single focus of not sliding around the whole turn, but the .... hmm... whats the correct term for the inside of a turn? but not at the entry or exit.

Posted by: Sugoi Kuruma May 9 2003, 02:50 AM
ryouske i think the term u are looking for is apex

Posted by: Rayp May 9 2003, 04:49 AM
QUOTE (ryosuke @ May 8 2003, 08:40 PM)
Drifting is the loss of traction at the rear wheels while power is provided also at the rear wheels with direction of drift being controlled by minute movements from the accelerator, the steering wheel, and weight balance. Power sliding is in general a loss of traction of all wheels, with the single focus of not sliding around the whole turn, but the .... hmm... whats the correct term for the inside of a turn? but not at the entry or exit.

I believe you have a mistake there... Powersliding is simply using a lot of power during a turn to force the car to oversteer (and generally you don't want the front wheels to loose too much grip)... A drift CAN be a loss of traction of all wheels. Haven't you watched Initial D ? tongue.gif

Posted by: Rayp May 9 2003, 04:59 AM
QUOTE (Sugoi Kuruma @ May 8 2003, 07:40 PM)

the reason drift techniques are used so much in rally, is because of the surface of the track. because they are mostly driving on low grip surfaces, to try and grip drive corners would be very slow, as there is not much grip to be had

A better reason is that they must make a lot of compromises. Surfaces varies a lot. For all kind of surfaces, there are suspension settings and tyres that would do a good job on it, but in a rally you rarely have the luxury of finding the optimal one that would last for the whole trip (for exemple, slick tyres would do fine on pavement, but very bad on mud, and mud tyres suck on pavement). So they make compromises, and must deal with it.

Posted by: Rayp May 9 2003, 05:22 AM
My take on the Grip driving VS drifting (and ass-dragging).

What peoples don't understand on the topic when they say grip driving is better is that it is superior only when the car can take it and the road allow it. One reason why grip driving is the best on track is because it is MEANT to favor it. The tracks are super clean, there are no bumps or pots holes, they use a very grippy asphalt (often coated why some sticky substance). If you fight to loose grip, you don't get ANY speed drifting. But if your car is already behond it's hability to grip, you gain speed doing it.

Take for exemple my car (Accord 87 S), still equiped with (cheap and worn) winter tyres. I have the habit of driving too fast, and my tyres are likely to loose grip easily on dry asphalt (it's spring here in Quebec). In my case, attempting a 4 wheeled slide (left foot braking/lift-off oversteer), loosing the rear on sharp turns or puposely loose and regain front grip to swing the rear around is much faster and convenient, especially when there is dirt. But once i get my summer tyres on, i will have to fight my grip to do the same, at that point i will loose any benifit from "ass-dragging" my car, and will only damage my tyres and put a lot of load on my suspension (loosing grip to the 4 wheels "unload" the suspension, but the suspension will load a lot while you try to loose it).


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