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> Supercharger and Turbocharger: Twincharger!, Supercharger and Turbocharger together on 4AGE.
s12drifter
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 06:18 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 50 minutes, 35 seconds ago)
Not necessarily the case. Just because something is good doesn't mean it'll end up in a production car. There are plenty of prototype vehicles/drivetrains that were freaking amazing but never ended up in production. Mercedes Benz's old racing days come to mind.

Unfortunately a lot of production cars are hampered by cost/complexity problems as well as political and executive decision-making. Efficiency is not necessarily why a certain design doesn't get made.

After all, the Wankel was made into a production motor! awesome.gif

^ very correct. there is a 6 stroke/cycle engine that uses water after the 4th stroke which turns into steam giving it two more strokes. it doesnt need a radiator or cooling system because the water/steam cools it down so much. it would help fuel economy and power output too.

however it's not in a single production car yet. and the idea came about in 1929 LOL

This post has been edited by s12drifter on Nov 16 2012, 06:20 PM
DigiBunny
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 09:58 PM


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*Raises hand*

Since Twinscroll turbos were mentioned, I'd like to ask anyway.

How is it compare to a Twin turbo, functionally? From what I gather, it smoothens the airflow by sorting out the exhaust pulses that result from every stroke?
Soran
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 11:40 PM


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I drive a twincharged VW. It's a 1.4 litre Jetta that does 160hp stock

Good thing about it is the torque, 250nm of it makes for jolly good fun at the lights
MetalMan777
Posted: Nov 17 2012, 12:08 AM


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QUOTE (DigiBunny @ 2 hours, 10 minutes ago)
*Raises hand*

Since Twinscroll turbos were mentioned, I'd like to ask anyway.

How is it compare to a Twin turbo, functionally? From what I gather, it smoothens the airflow by sorting out the exhaust pulses that result from every stroke?

Twin turbos give you two completely diferent sets of compressors and turbines, ideally tuned to different airflow requirements (note similar boost pressure) . A twinscroll will simply allow you two different a/r ratios on the same turbine wheel. If you don't know that that means, I suggest you google area/radius ratio.

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s12drifter
Posted: Nov 17 2012, 09:33 AM


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I'm running a twin scroll turbo. i start boosting by about 2400rpms and hit full boost by 3k
chillined
Posted: Nov 26 2012, 07:05 PM


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Very nice, that's a quick spool up. I'm a big fan of the Holset HX series, they spool instantly with twin scroll, and are reliable to high heaven with great care.
s12drifter
Posted: Nov 27 2012, 06:10 PM


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QUOTE (chillined @ Yesterday, 11:05 PM)
Very nice, that's a quick spool up. I'm a big fan of the Holset HX series, they spool instantly with twin scroll, and are reliable to high heaven with great care.

I have HX35 with a billet wheel (rare) and it's be RETARDED reliable.
chillined
Posted: Nov 27 2012, 06:47 PM


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Batmowheel?
Spaz
Posted: Nov 27 2012, 09:29 PM


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QUOTE (chillined @ 2 hours, 42 minutes ago)
Batmowheel?

He's referring to the HX35 with a billet wheel being rare, not it having a wheel with a rare design. Those batmowheels are pretty awesome though.
s12drifter
Posted: Nov 28 2012, 08:09 AM


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it came with a billet wheel. i have no idea but it looks original like spaz said.

i would like to do a HX40/35 though.
chillined
Posted: Nov 28 2012, 05:11 PM


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QUOTE (Spaz @ Today, 12:29 AM)
He's referring to the HX35 with a billet wheel being rare, not it having a wheel with a rare design. Those batmowheels are pretty awesome though.

Indeed. It's why I assumed BatMoWheel, because if I was going billet, it'd be that.

Still, that's pretty cool having a billet HX35, explains the quick spool.
Chihiro
Posted: Mar 5 2013, 07:25 PM


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QUOTE (Vortrex @ Nov 15 2012, 10:08 AM)
It is possible to make a 4AGE or an other engine both Supercharged and Turbocharged?
Like the Lancia Delta S4!
If it is possible on a 4AGE it would be the 'Devil Akuma 4AGE'.
Even the Japanese would be scared of it.
That's just one heck of a scary sound!
Oh wow, it actually is on some VW cars:Twincharger. I didn't knew there were production cars of it...

So, what do you guys think about it? smile.gif

It's possible, use the 4A-GZE Block and Head (4A-GZE is a supercharged 4A-GE from the AW11 MR2) and modify it for twin charging but the question is the engine's reliability. Or use the Formula Atlantic 4A-GE motor it does really handle the boost abuse.

Natural Aspirated Engines for me is still the best.
Banken
Posted: Apr 8 2013, 05:15 PM


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QUOTE
Efficiency is not necessarily why a certain design doesn't get made.  After all, the Wankel was made into a production motor!


OTOH, economy is also the primary reason they're no longer in production...

This post has been edited by Banken on Apr 8 2013, 05:29 PM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 8 2013, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE (Banken @ 24 minutes, 51 seconds ago)

OTOH, economy is also the primary reason they're no longer in production...

Right, but look at how long they were in active production and in consumer cars. Compare that to the discussion at hand and you'll find the relevance in my statement. smile.gif
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Banken
Posted: Apr 9 2013, 06:20 PM


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Yeah, but we haven't seen a true high-performance rotary sold in the US since 1996... that's 17 years! And that same high performance rotary engine went out of production in 2002. The last mass produced three-rotor rotary went out of production in 1995.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 9 2013, 07:02 PM


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I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand...? The point was that the Wankel design, with all its flaws, was in production vehicles for so long. It doesn't matter whether it was a 'high-performance' version or not. The point was simply that they were around.
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Banken
Posted: Apr 10 2013, 05:32 PM


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They were around when gas was $2 a gallon, is my point. And bad gas mileage is what killed the RX-8.

For what it's worth, two-stroke engines, for all their flaws, were around for a long time too, but they're being phased out because of how bad they are for the environment.
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 10 2013, 06:13 PM


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QUOTE (Banken @ 40 minutes, 57 seconds ago)
They were around when gas was $2 a gallon, is my point. And bad gas mileage is what killed the RX-8.

For what it's worth, two-stroke engines, for all their flaws, were around for a long time too, but they're being phased out because of how bad they are for the environment.

2-stroke engines have been in production cars? Please provide source?

But since you seem to still be missing--perhaps on purpose--the point I was making, the point is still that twincharging wasn't done in production vehicles of any significant number or for any significant length of time, and that efficiency cannot be deemed the hard-and-fast reason since inefficient engines have been in production cars aplenty.

Hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat myself since at this point I really don't feel like doing it anymore. derp.gif
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s12drifter
Posted: Apr 10 2013, 06:15 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 2 minutes, 40 seconds ago)
2-stroke engines have been in production cars? Please provide source?

But since you seem to still be missing--perhaps on purpose--the point I was making, the point is still that twincharging wasn't done in production vehicles of any significant number or for any significant length of time, and that efficiency cannot be deemed the hard-and-fast reason since inefficient engines have been in production cars aplenty.

Hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat myself since at this point I really don't feel like doing it anymore. derp.gif

volvo or saab had a engine with a 2 stroke i forget what model... i believe. im not 100% i remember hearing something about it
Banken
Posted: Apr 10 2013, 10:17 PM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ 4 hours, 4 minutes ago)
2-stroke engines have been in production cars? Please provide source?

But since you seem to still be missing--perhaps on purpose--the point I was making, the point is still that twincharging wasn't done in production vehicles of any significant number or for any significant length of time, and that efficiency cannot be deemed the hard-and-fast reason since inefficient engines have been in production cars aplenty.

Hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat myself since at this point I really don't feel like doing it anymore. derp.gif

Of course not, twincharging hasn't been done because it's it doesn't make any sense. Both a turbo or a supercharger will give you as much power as you could possibly need, the only difference being that the supercharger is less efficient and more linear. If you're worried about turbo lag all you need is the right gear ratios and some sort of anti-lag.

And it also doesn't work financially... which is why even the Veyron is has quadruplet turbos instead of a two giant turbos and a supercharger. It just complicates things unnecessarily.
s12drifter
Posted: Apr 11 2013, 10:58 AM


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QUOTE (Banken @ Today, 2:17 AM)
some sort of anti-lag.


this I completely disagree with i dont know how much you know about internal combustion engines but anti lag DESTROYS engines turbos exhaust manifold. if you have a anti lag car i give no more the 5,000 miles on a professionally built engine.
TTH
Posted: Apr 11 2013, 11:24 AM


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QUOTE (Nomake Wan @ Today, 5:13 AM)
2-stroke engines have been in production cars? Please provide source?

But since you seem to still be missing--perhaps on purpose--the point I was making, the point is still that twincharging wasn't done in production vehicles of any significant number or for any significant length of time, and that efficihave been in production cars aplenty.ency cannot be deemed the hard-and-fast reason since inefficient engines

Hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat myself since at this point I really don't feel like doing it anymore. derp.gif

All old Saabs before 1967 had 2-stroke 3 cyl engine.. Which brings me to my favourite topic, Saab "Ecopower" awesome.gif
YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_orlG_W3Us )


VAG still has twincharged engine in production and it's pretty much the most popular petrol engine in Europe.. The 1.4 TSI is available to pretty much any VAG-group vehicle, from Audi to Skoda...
Of cource, it's only one engine model but still, the production numbers of this engine is starting to be pretty significant.. So it cannot be complete junk if it's still in production after eight years..
Nomake Wan
Posted: Apr 11 2013, 02:06 PM


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QUOTE (TTH @ 2 hours, 41 minutes ago)
All old Saabs before 1967 had 2-stroke 3 cyl engine.

Well I'll be damned. ohmy.gif
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Banken
Posted: Apr 11 2013, 02:33 PM


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QUOTE (s12drifter @ 3 hours, 34 minutes ago)
this I completely disagree with i dont know how much you know about internal combustion engines but anti lag DESTROYS engines turbos exhaust manifold. if you have a anti lag car i give no more the 5,000 miles on a professionally built engine.

Afterburn systems aren't the only kind of anti-lag.

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