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> Bucket Seats, Do you appreciate having one?
loki700
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 09:37 AM


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QUOTE (cmspaz @ Aug 5 2008, 09:55 PM)
Care to explain the logic behind outlawing safety? I might be missing something.

Also, quite ruining our fun. We like our womens, dammit. yucky.gif

I know in some parts of the U.S. at least it's illegal to alter the safety features of your car, so that's why if you have an airbag you can't put in a steering wheel that gets rid of it and you can't legally wear a harness on the street because you changed the safety features so it no longer has the stock safety features that have been tested at the factory. I thought about switching to them but figured it really wasn't worth it.
shinn
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 10:02 AM


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My mom's benz comes with buckets. They are very comfortable. =D
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 10:07 AM


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QUOTE (loki700 @ Today at 10:37 AM)
I know in some parts of the U.S. at least it's illegal to alter the safety features of your car, so that's why if you have an airbag you can't put in a steering wheel that gets rid of it and you can't legally wear a harness on the street because you changed the safety features so it no longer has the stock safety features that have been tested at the factory. I thought about switching to them but figured it really wasn't worth it.

Where did you hear that? I'm no expert in the law but I don't think it's against the law to remove airbags since they are not a safety requirement by law. Regarding the seatbelt/harness issue, I think what makes certain things illegal is whether or not it's DOT-approved.
loki700
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 10:52 AM


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QUOTE (DeeezNuuuts83 @ Today at 12:07 PM)
Where did you hear that?  I'm no expert in the law but I don't think it's against the law to remove airbags since they are not a safety requirement by law.  Regarding the seatbelt/harness issue, I think what makes certain things illegal is whether or not it's DOT-approved.

I don't remember, i remember talking about it to my friend and he mentioned it, and i also read it on a site that sells that stuff (i think it was when my friend was showing me veilside stuff). I'm not sure if it's true, but i figured since i wasn't the only one to hear that altering the safety equipment in your car was illegal that it might have some merit, i mean a track car is one thing, that you can do whatever you want to as far as altering the safety stuff, but from what i heard it's illegal on the road. And the only reason i'm giving that my friend knew about it too merit is that he wasn't the one that showed me, he's into trucks, and would never look at veilside's website so he definitely didn't get the information from the same source.

I just looked on the site and they just have the seats my friend wanted (ridiculously expensive) but they don't have the steering wheel on there anymore, but it was on there that it was for off road use only and that altering the safety features in your car was illegal.

Edit again:
I just used www.archive.org to look and found said description, this is what it said:

"VeilSide Steering Wheels are designed for the driving enthusiast, who requires a comfortable grip for maximum control. Ergonomically designed to accomodate better visibility of gauge cluster and sub-meters. Available in Black, Red, Blue, White, Yellow leather, with the new carbon black and silver carbon.
* Requires NARDI steering wheel hub adapters. (Removal of air bag system is violation of the law. Use only for off-road vehicles.)

RE-RELEASED December 2003!"

So i guess it was safety features that came from my friend when i mentioned the harness.

This post has been edited by loki700 on Oct 1 2008, 11:00 AM
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 11:08 AM


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^ FYI, a lot of companies who sell stuff will talk about it being for "off-road vehicles only" to protect them from lawsuits. While it's always the choice of the customer, if somebody yanks out their airbags and gets into an accident, they could sue the steering wheel manufacturer for selling a product that contributed to their injuries without warning them of the risks. So all that "off-road" mumbo jumbo is to prevent people from suing them.
loki700
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 05:22 PM


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QUOTE (DeeezNuuuts83 @ Today at 1:08 PM)
^ FYI, a lot of companies who sell stuff will talk about it being for "off-road vehicles only" to protect them from lawsuits. While it's always the choice of the customer, if somebody yanks out their airbags and gets into an accident, they could sue the steering wheel manufacturer for selling a product that contributed to their injuries without warning them of the risks. So all that "off-road" mumbo jumbo is to prevent people from suing them.

I figured that, but normally they would just say that you do it at your own risk, not that it's unlawful. Anyway i dunno, but it'll be a little while before i even have to worry about that now, i have a lot of debt on a car i like but don't really want...
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 05:28 PM


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QUOTE (loki700 @ Today at 6:22 PM)
I figured that, but normally they would just say that you do it at your own risk, not that it's unlawful. Anyway i dunno, but it'll be a little while before i even have to worry about that now, i have a lot of debt on a car i like but don't really want...

No, they'll never say "at your own risk" with stuff like this. They want to completely distance themselves from liability as far as possible.
loki700
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 05:42 PM


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QUOTE (DeeezNuuuts83 @ Today at 7:28 PM)
No, they'll never say "at your own risk" with stuff like this. They want to completely distance themselves from liability as far as possible.

Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder where my friend got that from then. I figured i would have both if i ever put them in and just use the stock one on the street if it was illegal. I hate money, but i also hate the lack of money. crying2.gif
backalleyracer
Posted: Oct 1 2008, 05:46 PM


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i must say though, a bucket seat with the improper placement of the harness can be very deadly, because in a accident, the harness can nearly take your head off if improperly installed
DreadAngel
Posted: Oct 2 2008, 10:26 PM


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Reclinable or Fixed back?

That'll be a good start...

Reclinable buckets are good enough for most application, unless you're a fully sick driver and generate enomous amount of Gs or gone amatuer/pro racing, there isn't the need for fixed back. Just wank factor oh look at me, I've got a fixed carbon fibre seat that feels moulded to my phat outline hahaha.

And if you're asking, I've got Recaro SR3s in my current car, had Sparco Torino II in my old car... Both reclinable and both taken to the track and they're perfect smile.gif
Spaz
Posted: Oct 3 2008, 09:47 AM


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QUOTE (DreadAngel @ Today at 1:26 AM)
unless you're a fully sick driver and generate enomous amount of Gs or gone amatuer/pro racing, there isn't the need for fixed back.

If you think the pro open-wheel guys have to deal with a lot of Gs, try autox. Seriously. We make F1 drivers look like pussies when it comes to G forces.
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sideways
Posted: Oct 3 2008, 06:23 PM


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QUOTE (DreadAngel @ Yesterday at 11:26 PM)


Reclinable buckets are good enough for most application, unless you're a fully sick driver and generate enomous amount of Gs or gone amatuer/pro racing, there isn't the need for fixed back. Just wank factor oh look at me, I've got a fixed carbon fibre seat that feels moulded to my phat outline hahaha.

And if you're asking, I've got Recaro SR3s in my current car, had Sparco Torino II in my old car... Both reclinable and both taken to the track and they're perfect smile.gif

If i wanted serious holding- a reclinable would NEVER come across my mind. A fixed deep bucket (none tube frame) is the ONLY way to go. No reclinable has ever held me to the point i didnt need to use my legs/thighs for support- and thats what counts to me, holding the top half still is easy.
backalleyracer
Posted: Oct 3 2008, 07:00 PM


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QUOTE (cmspaz @ Today at 9:47 AM)
If you think the pro open-wheel guys have to deal with a lot of Gs, try autox. Seriously. We make F1 drivers look like pussies when it comes to G forces.

i highly doubt you would ever experience something like 180mph for 50 mph in what...2-3 secs ?

DreadAngel
Posted: Oct 4 2008, 05:59 PM


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@ sidesways - They've held me through plenty of high G situations perfectly well, maybe its your larger frame? =P They've held me stuck in place without additional bracing using body parts in Gymkhana and Trackdays, no problems at all =)

But its all subjective =)
backalleyracer
Posted: Oct 4 2008, 06:50 PM


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try driving in a full bucket seat and tell me if you dont feel the difference

because I have a sparco evo in my car and i love it to no end. you really...do...not...move
Spaz
Posted: Oct 4 2008, 08:13 PM


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QUOTE (backalleyracer @ Yesterday at 10:00 PM)
i highly doubt you would ever experience something like 180mph for 50 mph in what...2-3 secs ?

Same amount of G-force can be applied at lesser speeds, you know.

Also, we have sharper corners and quicker transitions between them. You don't turn your wheel more than 90 degrees on a road course (at least you aren't supposed to), whereas you can be required to go lock to lock on an autox course within 2 seconds.

It's not the constant G's I'm talking about, it's the peak Gs.
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DreadAngel
Posted: Oct 6 2008, 12:34 AM


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QUOTE (backalleyracer @ Yesterday at 12:50 PM)
try driving in a full bucket seat and tell me if you dont feel the difference

because I have a sparco evo in my car and i love it to no end. you really...do...not...move

I have and there is a difference... But to most people, they're a pain in the ****ing ass daily...

Which they are wink2.gif Of every 1 person that you can find say full buckets are okay, you literally get 1000 that say they're a POS lol =P

This post has been edited by DreadAngel on Oct 6 2008, 01:24 AM
sideways
Posted: Oct 8 2008, 05:44 PM


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Meh, im just saying if you want something to SERIOUSLY hold you in- the bucket cant be beat. a deep-sided reclinable is a nice trade off, but still doesnt compare.


cmspaz, is you high tongue.gif? The Peak G of 99.9% of the autocrossers will never match what open wheeled racers in question will experience short of crashing into a wall. The tires will simply slide long before they come close.
DreadAngel
Posted: Oct 8 2008, 06:02 PM


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QUOTE (sideways @ Today at 11:44 AM)
Meh, im just saying if you want something to SERIOUSLY hold you in- the bucket cant be beat. a deep-sided reclinable is a nice trade off, but still doesnt compare.


cmspaz, is you high tongue.gif? The Peak G of 99.9% of the autocrossers will never match what open wheeled racers in question will experience short of crashing into a wall. The tires will simply slide long before they come close.

Can't agree with you more wink2.gif
thx712517
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 04:01 AM


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Another autocrosser chiming in here. Autocrossers experience more turns per second and higher peak g forces than F1 drivers, with our wimpy little street cars.
DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 06:32 AM


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^ More turns per second? Yes. Higher peak g-forces--you sure about that?
Spaz
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 07:24 AM


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QUOTE (DeeezNuuuts83 @ Today at 9:32 AM)
^ More turns per second? Yes. Higher peak g-forces--you sure about that?

Positive.

Well, maybe not me on my 520 treadwear all-seasons... but I remember reading somewhere that autox is worse than F1 when it comes to g-forces. I'll have to see if I can find said article.
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DeeezNuuuts83
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 07:54 AM


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^ Find the article if you can. I just would've thought the opposite, considering F1 drivers specifically have to train their neck muscles to cope with high cornering forces involved in the sport. I don't think autocrossers do that.
backalleyracer
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 09:18 AM


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at this point, i really dont think autocross experiences the same G's as F1

until someone drives a F1 car to the fullest and says that, i have to disagree
sideways
Posted: Oct 9 2008, 10:53 PM


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QUOTE (thx712517 @ Today at 5:01 AM)
Another autocrosser chiming in here. Autocrossers experience more turns per second and higher peak g forces than F1 drivers, with our wimpy little street cars.

Boy what the hell ARE You smoking? What autocrosser sees 4+ (not the PLUS symbol) Gs while handling? even MORE while braking (If memory serves me right formula 1 cars will see about a G of braking at high speed just by letting off the damn throttle)

Find me any autocrosser who sees that much on average that DIDNT crash into something.

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