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Alright lets get a few things straight..

Hondas are an amazing company when it comes to desinging high revving cars that utilize the most power per cylinder.
It is hard to get 200 HP NA outta a 2.0 and honda does it with the civic type R as we all know and 240 with the 2.0 with the s 2000...
But lets get a couple things establish..

If one craves drifting, as my friend Tofudriftae86 said, FR is indeed the superior drive train. One can establish a stronger drift and power to the rear wheels pushing the car's weight forward is far more logically correct to drift better than one pushing with its weight behind.

Hondas are not drifting machines. they are partially well rounded and modding them is somewhat alright because of the fact that one can utilize the efficienty of varriable valve timing or v tek.. That thing can squeeze decents of power outta an engine and do it right.
Lets not diss that...

Also... Since we are discussing Normally Aspiriated engines right? Were not doing turbo right? because both compnays, * aside from supra* usually have high compression engines that do not handle boost as well as something like a WRx.
An intake will not add 20 hp. You find one that does and I'll be aboslutley astonished. Thats considered like running 1 psi all the way to through your power band and no intake that I know off adds 1 psi , unless of course its a tiny supercharger of that matter..second of all an exhaust system as mentioned before will only add 4-5 hp if we are discussing mufflers...

A full exhaust system... Headers, hi flow cat, intermdiate pipe and muff willa dd mabe 15-16 hp... so your not going to get fucking out rageous gains from an NA setup, however of course your engine will respond alot better.
Both toyotas and civic has decent high end power and thats something that we can all enjoy . The utilization of Double over head cam shafts combined with Variable valve timing creates a very strong high end.

So lets go over the few main points.
Hondas and Toyotas are not turbo fans.. with the exclusion of the heavy ass supra.
Honda and Toyota , although lacking low end torque, make up for what they have with VVT and high end.
They are very driveable cars, but I'm also alluding to the fact that their is no point in trying to beat mustang gt's with either. It'd take a helluva a civic with its 1.8 litre miniscule displacement engine, when juxtaposed against a mustang with lets say 5.0 L plus of displacement, granted that honda does do a good job of milking a 4 cylinder car of its power and I respect them for it..but the bottom line is that a standard civic is not a race car and your going to have to do a tremenous amount of engine work to get it to perform like a GT and what not. ( were talking low compression pistons with a ratio of 8:1 or so running high amounts of boost to do well)

In closing, I'd like to say that with the right suspension work , * lol as we all know from mr. bunta in Intial D*... One can establish a very strong handling Car with either a honda or a toyota and member one of the maint points of Intial d is the driver, if he has enough skill, can beat any car..

So personally if I owned a honda or a toyota, I'd go for a N/A set up thats reliable...
intake, but I wouldnt do the kind thats a striaght pipe to the throttle body, only because the low end torque that the honda had in small amounts would vanish..
Pulleys to lighten the load on the engine and free excess hp,
Mild Cams, as to not alter idle,
Full header back exhaust, with a non shitty ass ricy muffler...
You can make a clean civic that performs nice, just dont ever forget to compensate for power with suspension other wise, it'll turn like a piece of shit...
Dont skimp on Strut bars , sway bars or coil overs...

Ok that was a long and boring point(s) I made,
take care intial D fans,
Tonberryking

wait wait.. what is the REAL debate about? the Honda Co. vs Toyota Co? or the cars they produce? and the market they contend in. ex. civic vs corolloa, accord vs camry?

cause this thread is getting annoying to read, and some pple just don't understand what they are talking about.

One more time it has been PROVED, that the Following cars will OUT PERFORM the NSX in the CURVES!

Chevrolet Corvette,
Dodge Viper,
Toyota Supra
Mazda RX7

The reason why people believe the nsx to be such a great handler is becuase it gives a lot of warning when the car enters a corner to fast.

Oh yes, if any of my posts sound like a flame, please don't take them personally. I just happen to be VERY PASSIONATE about cars, and Just like Itsuku I will get very excited and corrective if I read a state ment that in my judgement happens to be incorrect. Personality flaw of mine, heh.

hmm... look at the good side... this forum is very informative..and some of u can write for car magazine....

stay cool...

yup all the people here can all be editors of a magazine.. like superstreet , super compact, import tuner and turbo where all are consisted of idiot dumboes who dont know what they are talking about!

hmm I would say Toyota is hands down the more succesful company. I mean they have competition for ALMOST every car class. PLUS, their cars are the leaders in each car class(i.e Economy Car = Corrola, Luxery SUV = RX300, Van = Sienna, Luxery Cars = LS430 n GS430, Family Sedan = Camry)
Sure Honda has leaders in those categories but I think Acura/Honda does not compare to Lexus/Toyota in terms of premium cars. When will they have a Rear Wheel Drive Honda thats affordable?! How many of us can afford a 50 grand(Cdn) or 140 grand(Cdn) S2000 or NSX? V6 is the biggest engine Honda has. For toyota they have their V8s in the Sequoia, LX470, GS430, and LS430...Well Honda may be more focused on the economy side of things but still I like Toyota over honda. Toyota needs a new sports car to compete with the Nissan's new G35 Coupe and 350Z.

In terms of reliability I would have to say its close but I would take a toyota..Engine wise I would take a Honda!! I mean 2 Litre 240hp out of an inline 4 natural aspirated engine...thats unheard of! Revs at 9000! yum! lol
Only Honda could do such a thing. Also, DC2-R is nuts with its 1.8 L i4 195 hp monster! The new MR-S spiders are alright but underpowered IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I love Honda..I drive a CR-V!! =)

toyota already came up with another sports car deriving from its lexus clan.. its called is430 ( v8 altezza ) to compete with BMW M3 and M5. plus an upcoming design of the new rear wheel drive celica- modena (little ferrari taste) soon being decided but a prototype has been done. this celica will put an end to the to honda's s2000.

Honda's are good cars, toyota's are good cars. But it depends on what your going to be using the car for. For track, I'd take a toyota.... for a quarter mile... I'd take a Nissan.

Depends what kind of toyota, I dont see any nissans matching the supra in the 1/4 at least not in the states.

of course not in the states. But why limit yourself to that? If you want to talk about the worlds fastest Japanese Car... last I heard it was the Fairlady

I've heard differently, with the Jun Supra running 241 mph.

The fastest drag supra in the 6 second range in the 1/4.
I don't think nissan is faster, don't get me wrong I love nissan, my family just got the 3.5 SE altima, and it hauls major ass!

yea..it really haul major ass...

can u post some of the pics here?

Ok, hmm what to say. Hondas are good cars, yet Toyotas' are good cars.

The only reason I guess I like Toyota better is because they don't make the civic. Sorry for those people on the board who have civics. I can't stand them. I mean it's not like you don't see that car everyday(sarcastic). It gets on my nerves. Why spend all that money on a piece of shit car when you can save your money and get a prelude or a supra whatever.

Plus i have noticed a lot of civics that are all decked out and think they are all badass people who know how to race and well thats not the case.

ah, whatever I just hate civics! too many out there, too many stupid drivers that own them. I mean I guess it's alright if actual racers have them but eh they don't impress me at all.

Sorry for those I offened I don't mean to it just eurks me.

hum ...most hondas are FF ..exept the S2000 and NSX ...so cant drift ..boooooring

umm bout toyota being "class leading"
suv = acura mdx go look it up
economy wise lets say gas efficient = honda insight or what ever they are.
economy wise interms of bang for buck = civic ex
sedan wise.. i don't know the statistics YET.. but i've been seeing an increase in TL's and CL's
The reason why honda has ONLY a V6 engine is cause that's all it needs, the power to weight ratio is fine. where as.. the lexus has some big 4.2L v8 that produces only 300 hp. yet the tq is impressive at 325. if honda were to make a v8 engine, i would think they can easily surpass 300hp. and even at a lower displacement.

well not even to make a big deal about the damn issue.. it just comes down to Who wants a honda and Who wants a toyota. nothing more. imo, honda IS losing an edge because of laziness but once they "really" wanna dominate the market as they did a few years back, then we'll bring the topic back up.

WHY WONT YOU GUYS JUST START STUDYING YOUR LESSONS AT SCHOOL BE AT YOUR BEST AND GET A GOOD HONEST TO GOD JOB, YOU MOFOES!!

BY THEN YOU GUYS WILL BE DRIVING MERCEDES OR BMWS FOR THAT MATTER OR EVEN BETTER A PORSCHE , FERRARI AND LAMBO ! AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF YOUR EARNINGS LEFT? INSTEAD OF MAKING A SLOW PIECE OF SHIT ECONOMY CLASS HONDA LOOK LIKE A ROCKET AT 120 HP, WHY WONT YOU BE SMART AND ENOUGH AND SAVE AND GET TO THE REAL ESTATE OR INVEST IT SOMEWHERE OR PUT TO AN IRA ACCT AND GET MORE AND MORE BUCKS FROM YOUR HARD EARNED GREENIES! BETTER YET, WHY WONT YOU HOUSE YOUR GIRLFRIENDS WHO IS EXPECTING A LOT FROM YOU IN REGARDS OF FUTURE SECURITIES THAN LIVING INSIDE OF A MOBILE HOME LITTLE CIVIC FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES! DONT WASTE TALKING MUCH ABOUT TOPIC THAN HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT OR THINKING TO REPLY ON STUFFS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN. THINK WHAT YOU ARE GOIN TO DO IN THE FUTURE TO BUY A BETTER FASTER CAR! FOOLS!

------- YOUR MOMMY (IN A 500HP SW20 MR2)

you guys waste so much time thinking how to counter attack somebody's replies on honda and toyota.. why wont you waste your time thinking what you are goin to do in your life for the next 10 years!....

cars depreciate faster than your brains.. so make use of it !!


----YOUR MOMMY (NOW DRIVIN A 1000 HP SUPRA)

geeez guys, dont be so harsh, everyone needs a hobby, all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

get a hobby that is not goin to put your one leg in debt! fixing slow ass cars are sometimes hard to sell in the market .. so why pack it up with wings , paint with weird ass colors or make your interior look like Pokemon's love bed? you guys think other people think great of your cars? another fool like you may. why spend thousand and thousands and when you sell your car make only couple of hundreds from it coz you made it look like Star Trek?

-----think wise !

hey...let the ricers do what they want, all the easier for me to beat them, and they're doing the economy a service by pumping all that money into it.

i wonder how many ricers have filed up for bankruptcy? ok,, now you say thats helping the economy? gee...