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Initial D World - Discussion Board / Forums > Initial D General Discussion > bunta and ryousuke

Posted by: alanj Sep 15 2004, 04:55 PM

This is similar to the "whos the better racer" thread. But the question is, who do u think is more knowledgebale about racing techniques! It seems to me that Bunta just learned how to be a good driver by instince and is always like "dont u get it" and doesnt question y things work, but ryousuke on the other hand is like, hmm that works now im gonna spend the next month figuiring out y. So who do u think is smarter?

Posted by: thewird Sep 15 2004, 05:04 PM

Bunta is smarter, he just never tells Takumi anything because he wants Takumi to learn everything on his own just the way Bunta did when he was Takumi's age.

thewird

Posted by: spinnee Sep 15 2004, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (alanj @ Sep 15 2004, 04:55 PM)

Bunta. It's his experience and his born instinct.
After all, his training methods are betta too... cuz he gave the space for takumi to explore.

Posted by: RakeRon Sep 15 2004, 05:26 PM

His "training method" of the paper cup's only purpose was to keep the tofu from getting messed up by Takumi's bad driving. Takumi did the rest on his own.

Posted by: spinnee Sep 15 2004, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 15 2004, 05:26 PM)

His "training method" of the paper cup's only purpose was to keep the tofu from getting messed up by Takumi's bad driving. Takumi did the rest on his own.

it's on purpose too. there's a meaning in every what bunta give the scenario for takumi to do.

Posted by: sideways Sep 15 2004, 05:49 PM

haha i think it was both, but more to teach him the proper weight shifting skills. he could have driven slow as hell and been fine

Posted by: Smiley_DC2 Sep 15 2004, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 15 2004, 05:26 PM)

His "training method" of the paper cup's only purpose was to keep the tofu from getting messed up by Takumi's bad driving. Takumi did the rest on his own.

oh dude, ur missing much more ... of course the paper cup's main objective it to monitor its motion to prevent the tofu from breaking but in doing that it would teach Takumi so many more driving aspects - keeping the car in ideal balance, smooth handling, precise shifting

it's like Takumi says in first stage "braking, gear shift, steering .. if any is rough the water will spill" .. therefore, he had to learn how to perfect each driving aspect to be able to accomplish the water in the paper cup thing

(*agreed with spinnee

Posted by: thewird Sep 15 2004, 05:52 PM

QUOTE

haha i think it was both, but more to teach him the proper weight shifting skills. he could have driven slow as hell and been fine

remember he had to go to school the next day so if he went slow he wouldn't get any sleep so he was forced to go faster in order to sleep and therefore in order for him to go faster he had to shift the weights properly so the tofu wouldn't mess up.

thewird

Posted by: RakeRon Sep 15 2004, 05:55 PM

If I remember right, Bunta admits the only reason he did the whole paper cup thing was for the tofu's sake. Takumi's godlike driving skills is a sideaffect from that repeditive conditioning. Takumi learned how to attain perfect balance and from there he was trying things out to get home faster from work and to keep from getting bored.

Posted by: spinnee Sep 15 2004, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 15 2004, 05:55 PM)

ermmm... that's to takumi.
but we all can see that there's things to learn behind that cup.

like smiley_Dc2 mentioned & sidewatsgts, bunta is just trying to create a situation for takumi to realise his potential. i dare to say without bunta asking takumi to drive at wee hours and the cup, he will never be what he is today. the initial start is very important.

it's like : i'm showing you the ropes, the rest is up to you.

after all, that's what initial d is all about... it's all on "the moral of the story is...." or "at the end of the day, u may accomplish this through your own thinking"

and i find this method is good! that's why many academic places are now going for problem-based learning!

Posted by: arabiandrew Sep 15 2004, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (thewird @ Sep 15 2004, 05:52 PM)

QUOTE

haha i think it was both, but more to teach him the proper weight shifting skills. he could have driven slow as hell and been fine

I remember Takumi saying thnat he was soo scared cause it was dark and stuff and he wanted to go home as fast as he could~

Posted by: thewird Sep 15 2004, 06:06 PM

I don't remember anything about him being scared >_>

thewird

Posted by: Smiley_DC2 Sep 15 2004, 06:12 PM

me neither .. where did u see/read this arabiandrew?

Posted by: ExiL3 Sep 15 2004, 06:18 PM

i think he wanted to get home as fast as he could to get more sleep or he was bored or something

Posted by: RakeRon Sep 15 2004, 06:28 PM

Both actually. He hated doing deliveries which was why he was so spiteful about cars until he experienced his first race.

Posted by: Thanos Sep 16 2004, 12:50 AM

I still don't see how some of you can compare Ryousuke and Bunta, its like comparing a Panda to a Grizzly. Ryousuke could not even beat Takumi...let alone Bunta and the same goes for their knowledge...Bunta knows all there is to know, he does not have a theory for the fastest driving...he is the fastest. Ryousuke is still learning.

Posted by: Xibal (ER34) Sep 16 2004, 01:27 AM

Ryousuke is gonna quit soon so his out of the picture and bunta is like a GOD can't argue with that stupid old man

Posted by: haspieuw Sep 17 2004, 07:23 AM

I think Bunta still have that old knowlegde ....he doenst know what a Sil80 is

About Ryosuke , hey he is a genious , his lowest grade is a B !!!!
But he is still learning

Posted by: Zangetsu Sep 18 2004, 09:44 PM

well if u ask me, I think BUnta has the upper hand on this one. Ryosuke is really good but u cant beat a guy whos old!

Posted by: MAFD Sep 19 2004, 02:28 AM

i have a question about Bunta, you know how in Episode 05 he told Masashi that he didn't want a car with a wing cause it's distracting, then why did he get the GC8V (Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type R version 5). That car has a massive wing.

Posted by: haspieuw Sep 19 2004, 05:34 AM

QUOTE (MAFD @ Sep 19 2004, 02:28 AM)

good question

maybe Masashi couldnt find other 4WD or AWD cars without a wing
but can you imagine a Impreza without a wing ... it will look horrible

Posted by: Ayako Watanabe Sep 19 2004, 05:56 AM

QUOTE

maybe Masashi couldnt find other 4WD or AWD cars without a wing , but can you imagine a Impreza without a wing ... it will look horrible

Horrible indeed. Still i didnt see Bunta complain much because the car had a wing especially since he smirked when he pwoned takumi on the downhill and drove off as if takumi was standing still and takumi was like "holy sh*t WTF!?" LOL! Priceless!

Posted by: Jin Sep 19 2004, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (Thanos @ Sep 16 2004, 02:50 AM)

Ryosuke only got beat because they were on Akina and Takumi knows all there pretty much is on Akina

think if they raced on Akagi

Posted by: RakeRon Sep 19 2004, 09:18 AM

In the manga Bunta tells Mahashi to forget about all his complaints about the car earlier because after the test drive on Akina against Takumi (without warning from Bunta

) he was hooked.

Posted by: DrEVOIII Sep 19 2004, 09:53 AM

Bunta>Ryousuke

Period

Ryousuke is still a n00b.

Posted by: tivx Sep 19 2004, 09:57 AM

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 19 2004, 09:18 AM)

In the manga Bunta tells Mahashi to forget about all his complaints about the car earlier because after the test drive on Akina against Takumi (without warning from Bunta

) he was hooked.

maybe bunta was glad to have a car that he could beat takumi with. na i'm just playing.

as the wing thing goes, it looks better without, it's just opinion.

Posted by: haspieuw Sep 19 2004, 12:12 PM

QUOTE (tivx @ Sep 19 2004, 09:57 AM)

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 19 2004, 09:18 AM)

In the manga Bunta tells Mahashi to forget about all his complaints about the car earlier because after the test drive on Akina against Takumi (without warning from Bunta

) he was hooked.

maybe bunta was glad to have a car that he could beat takumi with. na i'm just playing.

as the wing thing goes, it looks better without, it's just opinion.

then can you give me a pic with an Impreza without a wing ?

Posted by: Jin Sep 19 2004, 01:44 PM

i can

Posted by: Ayako Watanabe Sep 19 2004, 03:25 PM

that doesnt look half bad, looks ok to me o.O...but i still would prefer it with the wing.

Posted by: MAFD Sep 19 2004, 05:03 PM

Ryousuke may seem smarter because he makes up alot of thoeries then explains them as he has the reputation of the team at stake. While Bunta only gives Takumi the most basic hints and lets Takumi figure out the rest. Bunta's way is slower but better for Takumi

Posted by: RakeRon Sep 19 2004, 08:14 PM

a WRX without the wing looks like the Impreza. I know that doesn't sound right, but I don't consider the WRX and the Impreza the same animal anymore since mechanically the WRX is very different from the normal Impreza.

Posted by: haspieuw Sep 20 2004, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (MAFD @ Sep 19 2004, 05:03 PM)

Just say Buntas level is too high

even Kuichii (I mean the boss of the tankstation) said Buntas level is totally different then Ryosukes and Takumis level ...

Posted by: MAFD Sep 20 2004, 01:25 PM

Well you can imagine the difference in experience, Ryousuke in like in his late 20's and Bunta is in his 40's, that means Bunta has like 20 yrs more experience than Ryousuke. And also

Minor Spoiler: Highlight to see

In the race between Takumi and Tomo the boss of the Toudou school said that experience matters pretty much more than anything else, because with experience comes skill or something.

Posted by: SupahNewbie Sep 20 2004, 11:50 PM

You can also say that Bunta could've been like takumi but also knows every single damn theory there is to know from experience. Therefore, due to the fact that it's street/road racing, and he's probably just lazy and misc reasons, he rather say few words then alot. He's old, just cause he knows it doesn't mean he has to say it. Where would the wisdom be in a whole paragraph when you can shove the whole damn lesson in a word or two? That's where impressiveness comes from, not your nerdy talk.

Posted by: AETRAN86 Sep 20 2004, 11:55 PM

QUOTE (RakeRon @ Sep 15 2004, 05:55 PM)

actually even in the fourth stage when Takumi isnt driving tofu Bunta gives him a cup of water.

Posted by: Juno Sep 21 2004, 08:51 AM

Bunta as a father makes Takumi develop on his own via giving him pieces to a puzzle and leaves it for Tak (Takumi) to fill it out.

Ryosuke spponfeeds. Not good, but it works as instant remedy to slow thinking.

Drving styles? Well Bunta scares the pants off Keiichi Tsuchiya. Nuff said.

Posted by: snowblind Sep 21 2004, 09:08 AM

they are both two sides two a great driver. Bunta is simply devistating on the road, And ryosuke is very smart and anylitical. when both of these talents are manifested on one person....

(its basicly the son born of two fathers thing from movies like platoon)

unless i totaly missed something.....

Posted by: Psycho Sep 21 2004, 10:22 AM

Bunta has lost (referring to people overestimating and thinking he's like...a God that cannot be defeated). Besides, we've only seen Bunta race on 'akina', and that's it. If a person races on the same track for more than 20 years, and has the enormous innate driving skill as Bunta, could there be doubt about who should have the best time on Akina?

Although, in a direct comparison, it does seem Bunta has more expertise and a more 'refined' technique than Ryosuke simply for the fact of experience.

But many people are doing the folly of thinking that since Bunta is undefeated (supposedly, his past is in the dark) on Akina, he's unbeatable anywhere. Ryosuke is undefeated on Akagi, it's a logical fallacy to assume such evidence can dictate good reason.

Keiichi Tsuchiya being 'scared' of Bunta's drift? It's more like he was commending an old rival (? They could have raced together before) rather than trying to tell us something surefire. Look at the context he said it in. It's the same if we go, 'Oh look, Sudo Kyouchi said that the only way to beat Tomo is if Ryosuke races...omg omg, that means Ryosuke's skill is far greater than Tomo's and tomo is a professional racer which means Ryosuke is a level above pro and yadi yada..."

The only indication we get from the above comment is that Ryosuke's skill is definitely at the level of the pros (hence him having a good chance against Tomo), but we already knew that...(he was offered an autocross position (apparently teams were 'dying' to get him) for godsakes, of course he's pro!)

The White Comet IS legendary in his own era, similarly Bunta in his era. Both have lost. Since Bunta has more driving experience, it's is reasonable to suggest he's more refined in more aspects than Ryosuke. As for 'driving theory' is concerned, I've read some pretty laughable arguments.

One dude even went as far to say 'Bunta must know every race theory in the book since he's so good, omg omg, GOD'...huh? What kind of assertion is that? Of course he doesn't, and of course Ryosuke doesn't. We don't know the nature of Bunta's knowledge. He has empirical evidence, that's FOR SURE. Meaning, he knows how the car will behave in certain situations just because he's been there before and done that. We cannot then just assume he knows the theory behind it.

Takumi does a lot of things that he has no clue why it works. What evidence do we have? Well, let's see. Bunta has not, as far as I know, given Takumi any technical knowledge. But, he does seem to 'not spoonfeed' takumi the technical details because Takumi wouldn't understand. We know he has enormous knowledge of suspension set ups and how they behave against certain cars, as we see him 'tuning' Takumi's suspension before the races against his opponents in the first stage. His 'theoretical' knowledge is a grey area, I wouldn't go so far to assume he dabbles in more race theory than Ryosuke.

Ryosuke has given us ample evidence that he is VERY GOOD at analyzing technical data and giving us a reasonable outcome. For instance, Ryosuke, just by looking at the course outline of Irohazaka, deciphered the 'unblockable' line that Kai Kogashiwa was going to pull on Takumi (Ryosuke had no prior knowledge of this line being used in 'action', see third stage for details). Bunta knew this line too, but that's because Ken Kogashiwa used it AGAINST him. Ryosuke also devised the 'weight shift' strategy to take a short cut over the gutters in the first Fourth Stage race, he also devised the 'two pieces of advice' against Ninomiya's EK9. That, I think, is an incredible feat since he predicted everything the EK9 was going to do to counteract that strategy. That was amazing. He created a winning simulation by just two simple instructions. Ryosuke is definitely a race genius and definitely has an enormous amount of technical knowledge he can actually 'apply' to race simulations. I would not endeavor to say he's 'better' than Bunta in this aspect, since we don't know the nature of Bunta's knowledge (he didn't know what a sil-eighty was...), but I wouldn't go vice versa and say Bunta is better than Ryosuke.

Wow, that's been long. I think people are short changing Ryosuke in lieu of this 'overestimation' of Bunta's prowess. He's extremely good. He ain't undefeatable. He's just like Schumacher...he just wins a lot...heh.

Lataz

Posted by: haspieuw Sep 21 2004, 10:33 AM

too long to read ... but I have read it

some things I agree and some I dont .. but I will post later

Posted by: Jin Sep 21 2004, 11:49 AM

i knew bunta has lost before as it is indicated in thrid stage, with the race including ken, they had many races before and in the one that counted Bunta won

i infered that bunta has experienced things like outside exploration and thats why he has the potential to be good at alot of courses

Posted by: Psycho Sep 21 2004, 12:15 PM

QUOTE

i infered that bunta has experienced things like outside exploration and thats why he has the potential to be good at alot of courses

Erm, was that in this thread? I don't see that specific post... The one where you talked about Ryosuke as how he didn't 'really' lose to Takumi I've read, and I agree completely.

Don't worry, I wasn't referring to anything you've said. You're not the 'bunta is god' kind of fan, most of your posts are usually thought over and collected.