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SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Feb 22 2009, 06:10 AM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | So I was having a browse at a Motorkhana sites gallery & went through the driving tips section as well. Getting good at pulling handbrake turns will do a lot to improve ones Motorkhana skill but it also said handbrake turns not reccommended for 4WDs, the guide was mainly written for front wheel drives. With a bit of a think, the reasons why it's not good for 4WDs like my 323 Familia GTR is because the drivetrain is all mechanical unlike much more modern 4WDs/AWDs that have a bunch of electronic gizmos to help out. When the rear wheels lock it'll also stop the rear diff/propshaft from turning but the front wheels/front driveshafts will still be moving from momentum. So clutching in, turn, then handbrake & release. Suddenly stopping the rear end while the fronts are still moving is going to be bad for the gearbox as well. Am I right in my thinking? Modern cars like the Mazda6 MPS for example with electronic controlled diffs are designed early on to disable torque transfer to the rear when the handbrake is on, effectively sending all torque to the front making it a front wheel drive momentarily. Subarus having a longitudal engine I'd think would be more rear torque biased. I hear they can also disable front drive by just pulling a fuse out. Even though my car wouldn't be all that ideal for Motorhana like a Mini Cooper/MX-5 or Lotus-Locust7, it doesn't mean I won't have a try for fun sometime My inspiration is this guy, phwoar he's got some skill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IShsEL2n7Oc This post has been edited by SuperMazdaKart on Feb 22 2009, 06:38 AM |
Spaz | Posted: Feb 22 2009, 05:47 PM |
Just a guy towing a car across the country to chase a dream. Group: FORUM MODERATOR Posts: 9,272 Member No.: 30,193 Joined: Jul 25th 2008 Location: Plymouth, MN | It's not the gearbox we worry about, it's the center diff. Having one shaft stationary while one is still spinning is VERY hard on a diff. Some cars have the diff integrated into the gearbox, but it's still not a gearbox issue in the end. That said, most AWDs don't come with a handbrake from factory that's strong enough to lock the rear wheels, at least on pavement. For that, you need to upgrade to a hydraulic handbrake. And I don't know what you're talking about with your 323 not being a good car for autox... I know for a fact that the Pulsar GTiR is a great car on course, so I wouldn't think the 323 GTR could be that much worse... And for some more rally action: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/RallyCo...tion_168105.htm For lulz, watch the wipers after each time he gets air. Silly DSMs... This post has been edited by cmspaz on Feb 22 2009, 05:54 PM |
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Feb 22 2009, 07:25 PM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | ideal, i said ideal yes it's the transfer carrier that i'd worry about. it's the weakest link & main thing thats known to break on the 323s. |
WRX DEMON Type R | Posted: Feb 22 2009, 08:16 PM |
IDW Posts A Freaking LOT Member Group: Banned Posts: 13,371 Member No.: 3,276 Joined: Sep 22nd 2004 Location: Update Profile | Some AWD vehicles are set to disengage the transfercase/central differential when the handbrake is pulled. |
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Feb 23 2009, 07:49 AM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | yep, Mazda 6 MPS is one (or MazdaSpeed 6 as you probably know it over there). not sure about Subaru's & EVO's though. i might have to look into adjustable sway bars for mine. hrmms. |
Cubits | Posted: Mar 26 2009, 10:09 AM |
IDW Prime Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 578 Member No.: 148 Joined: Dec 16th 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia | When subaru's got active centre diffs they had the electronic disengagement, evo's have had it for longer. Watch some group b footage of the monster cars getting caught up on hairpins (sometimes three-point turning!), that's what a fully mechanical system looks like in action. You could still do quite well without abusing the handbrake in motorkana, but obviously you'd have to make up time lost on the really tight hairpins (worked for the 205 T16, Lancia S4, and Audi Quattro...). |
spl | Posted: Mar 26 2009, 08:31 PM | ||
IDW Expert Member Group: Members Posts: 114 Member No.: 5,395 Joined: Feb 6th 2005 Location: Sydney |
Have you got any links to these old Group B footage? I love this era and want to see more of it. I saw a really good documentary called "Too fast to race". | ||
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Mar 27 2009, 03:43 AM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | i saw that DVD at SuperCheapAuto haha. thought about buying it, it's a bit regular price for something meant to be super cheap though heh. |
RalliKai | Posted: Mar 27 2009, 11:02 AM | ||||
IDW Goldmember Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,164 Member No.: 3,607 Joined: Oct 9th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
Here is some good footage. Youtube has alot of it. The start is the onboard view from a Renault 5 Maxi I think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtoXaLNi3zk The Audi was a real interesting car to watch since it was pretty much the only front engine Group B car in 85, 86'. Short wheel-base with alot of front overhang.
Along with ridiculous turbo lag. Subaru didn't start using active differentials till the 08' correct? This post has been edited by RalliKai on Mar 27 2009, 11:06 AM | ||||
DeeezNuuuts83 | Posted: Mar 27 2009, 04:54 PM | ||
IDW Goldmember Group: Advanced Members Posts: 3,840 Member No.: 25,374 Joined: Jul 18th 2007 Location: Southern California |
In which application? | ||
RalliKai | Posted: Mar 28 2009, 07:46 AM | ||
IDW Goldmember Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,164 Member No.: 3,607 Joined: Oct 9th 2004 Location: Update Profile |
Oh, I just asking cause I thought Cubits may have been referring to the VDC that are now in the newer Subaru Impreza's as the active center differential. If I'm wrong, please correct me. This post has been edited by RalliKai on Mar 28 2009, 07:48 AM | ||
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Apr 13 2009, 10:40 PM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | i got my non speed motorsport license today. looks like i'll be going to the next motorkhana session on the 26th april. i don't think the regular EVO/STI guys need to be concerned about the newcomer in an old 323 4wd that doesn't have rear disengagement upstaging them lol. |
Edi-no-son | Posted: Apr 13 2009, 11:17 PM |
IDW Expert Member Group: Members Posts: 132 Member No.: 3,486 Joined: Oct 1st 2004 Location: Update Profile | haha its not all about power man... I've got an evo and i went to a mazda motorkhana. Then i swapped with a friend in the mazda2 and beat him in the evo by far.... Motorkhana isn't about power, but is about skill lolz I'm hoping to enter a motorkhana hopefully in may hehehe The problem i found last time i was at the motorkhana was with 4wd, u need speed... without speed, yanking the handbrake doesn't do anything except foollow ur original line :S |
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Apr 13 2009, 11:48 PM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | what the, your here as well.. hah! i joined in the year before you did |
SuperMazdaKart | Posted: Apr 26 2009, 01:47 AM |
Button-masher Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,063 Member No.: 242 Joined: Feb 16th 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia | Woah heck yeh that was awesome! & I kicked arse in the E Class 4WDs, the fact that I was the only one competing in a 4WD there is irrelevant. Didn't get to do all the tests in the time frame. Bring on the next one Botched some of the tests but oh well. Handbraking didn't really seem to do much... Perhaps I need more practise with it. & yours truely, This post has been edited by SuperMazdaKart on Apr 26 2009, 02:52 AM |
DXPetti | Posted: Apr 28 2009, 11:25 PM | ||
IDW Special Member Group: Members Posts: 285 Member No.: 11,807 Joined: Sep 3rd 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
ahhh no. VDC is the next step/addition to ABS where the ECU uses yaw rate sensor, steering angle sensors etc to apply the brakes to individual wheels to prevent things like oversteer. It has nothing to do with the center diff's in Subaru's DCCD based AWD system (for the STI) or Vicious LSD based AWD system (for the rest of Subarus) | ||
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Bubs | Posted: May 2 2009, 06:19 PM |
Plep Group: Advanced Members Posts: 4,784 Member No.: 1,079 Joined: Dec 1st 2003 Location: Update Profile | My friend did handbrake turns in his (now being utilized as scrap metal all over the world) Subaru Impreza all the time. Then again, my friend is an idiot. |