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Views: 3,341  ·  Replies: 20 
> Double Clutching
Tsuioku
  Posted: Nov 24 2002, 04:50 PM


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The Topic says it all......
What is Double Clutching?? and how do you do it??

I remember hearing it from Fast and the Furious.....
Does any char from ID ever do it??
GoFastLookSlow
Posted: Nov 24 2002, 04:59 PM


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Double clutchin is a technique originally created by truckers with bad synchros. It involves engaging the clutch for a downshift, disengaging it halfway through the shift, then engaging it again aand finishing the shift. It should never ever be used by a person serious about racing.
ImprezaSTi27
Posted: Nov 24 2002, 05:59 PM


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Dude you didn't know? That's why you lose the drags...granny shifting when you should've been double-clutching. Either by an inch or a mile, a win's a win. I live my life one Nos bottle at a time.

I'm fast AND furious.

jk

Alex
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zster
  Posted: Nov 24 2002, 06:21 PM


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double clutching is used to downshift with cars with either bad synchros or no synchros. the technique entails depressing the clutch, put the gears into neutral, let go of the clutch, match rev, depressing the clutch again, downshift then match rev and release the clutch.
the reason to do this is that if you downshift with a car w/ bad synchros or no synchros you will get your gears to grind as you downshift. the match rev in the middle lets your downshift smoothly.
if you go to racing schools like skip barber, their open wheel cars do not have synchros so this techique is important. sometimes if you want to downshift to first gear, doing this would be useful too.
Tsuioku
  Posted: Nov 24 2002, 08:27 PM


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Thanx peepz... I understand the concept now...

But another Q arises now...... What is synchros??
What are some cars w/ synchros?? w/o synchros??
karasac
Posted: Nov 24 2002, 10:11 PM


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i know what it is but i cant put it into words so here ya go biggrin.gif :

http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

i love howstuffworks.com biggrin.gif
Perry
Posted: Nov 24 2002, 10:28 PM


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For the people that are too lazy to click the link, here you go:

QUOTE
Information and images are taken from howstuffworks.com

Manual transmissions in modern passenger cars use synchronizers to eliminate the need for double-clutching. A synchro's purpose is to allow the collar and the gear to make frictional contact before the dog teeth make contact. This lets the collar and the gear synchronize their speeds before the teeth need to engage, like this:

user posted image

The cone on the blue gear fits into the cone-shaped area in the collar, and friction between the cone and the collar synchronize the collar and the gear. The outer portion of the collar then slides so that the dog teeth can engage the gear.

Every manufacturer implements transmissions and synchros in different ways, but this is the general idea.
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Indecisive
Posted: Nov 25 2002, 04:57 PM


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you usually double clutch before going through a corner to keep your revs up or something like that..I could be wrong.


when you're shifting you're supposed match your revs wif you speed neways so bad syncros shouldn't be a problem if you know how to shift.
]{aya
Posted: Nov 25 2002, 05:05 PM


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rally cars are not syncronized hehe, when the driver wants power he goes and get it ...rally is so nice !
Indecisive
Posted: Nov 25 2002, 05:09 PM


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QUOTE (]{aya @ Nov 25 2002, 05:05 PM)
rally cars are not syncronized hehe, when the driver wants power he goes and get it ...rally is so nice !

man..I love when they do a lil smaller shot of the feet/pedals while they're driving. it's friggin crazy. omg...I never knew somebody could have so much control...damns.
ImprezaSTi27
Posted: Nov 25 2002, 07:41 PM


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A lot of current rally cars in the WRC have semi-automatic sequential shifters. Sequential in that you can't jump straight from 4th to 2nd without passing 3rd also, therefore there's only a lever for upshift and downshift. And in acceleration the transmission works as a racing automatic, so the clutch is only used when the rally driver downshifts.
Alex
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Fresh
  Posted: Nov 25 2002, 08:18 PM


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I think double clutching can done without using the clutch by simply shifting out of gear to neutral, matching revs and then shifting down or up. It can actually be better for the car than using the clutch to shift if you know how to time it correctly.
Indecisive
Posted: Nov 25 2002, 08:54 PM


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...if you do that then you screw up your clutch plate. and if you can't get the timing right you'll grind your gears like crazy.

this is a REALLY bad idea.
Fresh
  Posted: Nov 25 2002, 09:17 PM


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i know a lot of race car drivers do it because it saves time and if you know your car well enough you should be able to do it smoothly
breeze
Posted: Nov 26 2002, 11:09 AM


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QUOTE (Indecisive @ Nov 25 2002, 04:57 PM)
you usually double clutch before going through a corner to keep your revs up or something like that..I could be wrong.


when you're shifting you're supposed match your revs wif you speed neways so bad syncros shouldn't be a problem if you know how to shift.

Yeah, there was a topic like this in the Celica Forums I check out, awhile back. they came to an agreement that the technique you're talking about is "rev-matching" so you can keep your Revs high so you don't lose speed coming out of the corner.

funny thing is. no one there could agree what the exact term for double clutching was... laugh.gif
Indecisive
Posted: Nov 26 2002, 04:48 PM


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QUOTE (Fresh @ Nov 25 2002, 09:17 PM)
i know a lot of race car drivers do it because it saves time and if you know your car well enough you should be able to do it smoothly

a lot of race car drivers now dont' use stick shift at all nemore. they use the electronic system like for ferrari or bmw with the paddles behind the wheels.


that's where a clutch is not necessary. and wif the bmw system. the SMG 2 system also double clutches automatically. so it's like a semi automatic transmission...what I like to call an automatic manual transmission heh.

BMW is thinking of putting this system in the new bmws. it has been race tested for a long time in their M3's now.


http://www.bmwclub.org.hk/smg2.htm there's some info on the SMG 2.



Fresh
  Posted: Nov 26 2002, 05:49 PM


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i'm talking abotu before SMG's
tofu boy
Posted: Nov 27 2002, 12:04 AM


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the M3 SMGs are "supposed" to be faster than manual or so they claimed. it uses electronic rev-matching to keep up eves when u down shift in turns. I whish i could try it someday cause everyone says is so good
ImprezaSTi27
Posted: Nov 27 2002, 12:39 AM


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You can also perform a "perfect launch" with the BMW SMG system, only once every 24 hours I think, and 10 times during the life of the clutch. But I hear the time it takes to shift is in miliseconds, which is pretty cool if it's true.

Alex
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SupahNewbie
Posted: Nov 30 2002, 01:48 AM


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Yeah but you got to replace and I'd rather have something take a bit longer but I can use for over 5 years of my life then to use something a bit faster for 2 weeks of my life laugh.gif
Indecisive
Posted: Nov 30 2002, 12:19 PM


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I don't think you wanna have to replace any bmw part. I have an E30 325i and it costs me a bundle if I need to bring it into the shop to repair. and for newer bmws I'm sure it'll be 10 times more than what I'm paying heh. and esp cuz it's a special transmission system it'll be hella expensive to replace.