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Views: 6,090  ·  Replies: 20 
> Can Sudo Kyoichi Beat 4th/5th stage guys, How good is he
r35gtr
  Posted: Aug 16 2016, 12:21 AM


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when the Lan Evo Team arrived in Initial d second stage, Sudo was portrayed pretty well. He is not down to Earth but he is helluva racer.

Sadly he was just turned to a Spectator in 3rd/4th and 5th stage. It was as if he was watered down.

my question is , how will Sudo fare against the 4th /5th stage guys. can he beat any of them except for the two lan evo scumbags who dumped oil on the road(sudo can easily beat those guys)
Meteor
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 02:32 AM


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Seven Star Leaf - The Roadster would hold out for 1 round at best, and the R34 would lose halfway through round 1.
Toudou Juku - Kyouichi would beat Daiki and Sakai on his car's abilities alone. Sakai's rhythm-disrupting tricks wouldn't do anything too catastrophic, as Kyouichi graduated from the exact same racing school and likes to play it safe anyway. Tomoyuki will then make short work of him, because he's an actual pro who even Takumi had trouble beating, and is behind the wheel of a very well set-up car. The Evo's power advantage and AWD traction won't make up for the EK9's superior braking and cornering, and Kyouichi couldn't push his car to the exact same extent Tomoyuki could (during the last race in the series, Tomoyuki looks at Takumi's driving - which at this point is so good it makes nearly all the Kanagawa races a complete bore - and remarks that Takumi's techniques are almost on a professional level at this point. Almost. That should give a good idea of what Kyouichi's up against).
Saitama Alliance - Kyouko puts up a decent fight, but loses to the Evo's superior abilities. Nobuhiko keeps up about as well as the Speed Stars kept up with the Red Suns. Wataru would almost beat him though, and the Cappuccino would straight up destroy him (even more so if it started raining, because Kyouichi really wouldn't want to push it under those conditions).
Purple Shadow - Either God Hand or God Foot would annihilate him completely.
Team 246 - Kobayakawa loses because his Evo doesn't measure up to Kyouichi's Evo. Takumi could keep up with Omiya even though the Roadster's rear wing gave it a huge braking advantage, and Kyouichi would have an even easier time with his car's 350hp, anti-lag and AWD.
Whatever the next team was called - Beats Minagawa, loses to Kai.
Whatever the next next team was called - Has a close race with Okuyama and manages to win, doesn't even manage to keep up with Ikeda.
Shinigami - Not even a race. Kyouichi lives, but only because Shinigami's true target is Ryousuke.
Sidewinder - Complete defeat. In the manga, God Foot himself says he'd be a little worried if he were racing Go Hojo. Even if Kyouichi made some huge upgrades to his Evo to keep up with Go's seriously fast NSX, he'd soon start falling back on every corner. And on the downhill, Shinji would have an even easier time with his perfect knowledge of the course and whatever modifications have been done to his 86. Kyouichi would be able to put up a fight, but I don't see him lasting even one round.
Tessou
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 09:21 AM


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QUOTE (r35gtr @ 9 hours, 0 minutes ago)
Sadly he was just turned to a Spectator in 3rd/4th and 5th stage. It was as if he was watered down.

Him and so many others.

My only two cents for this is that he needs to work on his weaknesses before taking on bigger dogs. He's hesitant in right turns and even more so in higher speed corners. The first one racked up his loss to Ryosuke, the second had him lose to Takumi.
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Eternal Firebird
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 10:13 AM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ 7 hours, 40 minutes ago)
Whatever the next team was called - Beats Minagawa, loses to Kai.
Whatever the next next team was called - Has a close race with Okuyama and manages to win, doesn't even manage to keep up with Ikeda.

Racing Team Katagirl Street Vision for Minagawa and Kai

Team Spiral for Okuyama and Ikeda.
Meteor
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 10:13 AM


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QUOTE
He's hesitant in right turns and even more so in higher speed corners. The first one racked up his loss to Ryosuke, the second had him lose to Takumi.

He never really showed any hesitation in high speed corners during that rematch with Takumi. He was simply convinced his overtaking strategy had secured him the win, and didn't expect Takumi to make a last-ditch effort with what little of the road was left for him. The overtake itself was started on a high speed corner where it was the opponent that hesitated - Kyouichi picked that corner precisely because it looked narrower than it really was, meaning someone without his knowledge of the course wouldn't take it as fast as they could.
What really made Takumi win was that he simply didn't know how narrow that last bridge was getting. If Kyouichi hadn't let up on the throttle, neither car would've made it to the finish.

This post has been edited by Meteor on Aug 16 2016, 10:14 AM
Spaz
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 09:04 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Today, 1:13 PM)
He never really showed any hesitation in high speed corners during that rematch with Takumi.

Familiarity. Plain and simple. I know this of myself at BIR versus any other track.

The factor that's not correct here, in my opinion, is the static point to point comparisons. Driver skill isn't static. You learn and grow with every race; every loss, every victory. What's to say, since we never got to see it, that Sudo didn't learn to get over his fear of unfamiliar high speed corners and corners that apex in the oncoming lane? It's easier to learn when you know what you need to work on.

Beyond that, think about the fact that, like Takumi, he'd learn and grow with every race beyond Third Stage. Would he beat everyone? Likely not, but it should be considered that he'd be more capable at every consecutive race.
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Tessou
Posted: Aug 16 2016, 10:06 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Yesterday, 2:13 PM)
He never really showed any hesitation in high speed corners during that rematch with Takumi.

Yes he did. He didn't try to take the bridge anywhere near the same speed as Takumi because he didn't think it was possible to clear it. That's hesitation, brother.
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r35gtr
  Posted: Aug 16 2016, 10:36 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Today, 10:13 AM)
He never really showed any hesitation in high speed corners during that rematch with Takumi.

I think the reason why he did not show any hesitation is , as Ryoske pointed out, that the Irohozaka slopes is a one way street so he does not have to bother with opposing traffic.

I think Sudo will beat Nobohiko, I mean all Nobohiko can rant about is " I will beat a new car with my old car" or " this rich kids do not know what I've been thru" and all that drama. Sudo on the other hand is a tough as nails racer


Sudo vs the Capuccino guy (Sakamoto I think)- I do not think Sudo will loose to him because his car is a 4wd and generally, 4wd are better in the rain.

This post has been edited by r35gtr on Aug 16 2016, 10:43 PM
Meteor
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 12:10 AM


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I still kinda think any hesitation on the bridge was less "oh shit high speed corner" and more Kyouichi's usual "eh, I've already won" (if not just Takumi being on the outside line keeping him from taking it effectively), since all I ever really remember being established in the series is his fear of right turns on two-way roads. But oh well, I guess it wouldn't really be a stretch for him to be uneasy on high speed corners.

QUOTE
Sudo vs the Capuccino guy (Sakamoto I think)- I do not think Sudo will loose to him because his car is a 4wd and generally, 4wd are better in the rain.

Not quite that simple. The Evo's AWD would certainly let it accelerate out of corners better, but that's all it has in this case. The Cappuccino is super light and has a much shorter wheelbase, so it has way shorter braking distances and takes corners way faster. Sakamoto is also far more willing to push it in the rain than Kyouichi would be. On the downhill, any distance Kyouichi gained on the straights would be quickly chewed up by the Cappuccino. And that's if he started out in the lead. If he started out chasing, the Cappuccino would get a huge lead the moment some consecutive corners popped up and then just keep on building it.
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Posted: Aug 17 2016, 09:08 AM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ 8 hours, 57 minutes ago)



The Cappuccino is super light and has a much shorter wheelbase, so it has way shorter braking distances and takes corners way faster. Sakamoto is also far more willing to push it in the rain than Kyouichi would be. On the downhill, any distance Kyouichi gained on the straights would be quickly chewed up by the Cappuccino. And that's if he started out in the lead. If he started out chasing, the Cappuccino would get a huge lead the moment some consecutive corners popped up and then just keep on building it.

if the Cappucino was such a super weapon why don't nearly all teams use it ?
Tessou
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 09:25 AM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ 9 hours, 15 minutes ago)
I still kinda think any hesitation on the bridge was less "oh shit high speed corner" and more Kyouichi's usual "eh, I've already won" (if not just Takumi being on the outside line keeping him from taking it effectively), since all I ever really remember being established in the series is his fear of right turns on two-way roads. But oh well, I guess it wouldn't really be a stretch for him to be uneasy on high speed corners.


Not quite that simple. The Evo's AWD would certainly let it accelerate out of corners better, but that's all it has in this case. The Cappuccino is super light and has a much shorter wheelbase, so it has way shorter braking distances and takes corners way faster. Sakamoto is also far more willing to push it in the rain than Kyouichi would be. On the downhill, any distance Kyouichi gained on the straights would be quickly chewed up by the Cappuccino. And that's if he started out in the lead. If he started out chasing, the Cappuccino would get a huge lead the moment some consecutive corners popped up and then just keep on building it.

I think hesitation might be the wrong word. How about "not willing to take risks"?
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xiao
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 09:28 AM


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QUOTE (mike962 @ 18 minutes, 28 seconds ago)
if the Cappucino was such a super weapon why don't nearly all teams use it ?

★ Becauze they all know the Autozoom would completely destroy the Cappo on the touge !! awesome.gif
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Meteor
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 09:30 AM


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QUOTE
if the Cappucino was such a super weapon why don't nearly all teams use it ?

Because it's not unbeatable, is hard to drive fast, and wouldn't have the same advantage on every course. But rain and a hesitant Kyouichi means the Evo would have a hard time trying to win.
QUOTE
I think hesitation might be the wrong word. How about "not willing to take risks"?

That works.

This post has been edited by Meteor on Aug 17 2016, 09:32 AM
Nomake Wan
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 04:05 PM


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QUOTE (mike962 @ 6 hours, 57 minutes ago)
if the Cappucino was such a super weapon why don't nearly all teams use it ?

All teams should just have a Super Seven driver and call it a day. Ain't nothing gonna beat that on a touge except Takumi's God-given luck hax.
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Meteor
Posted: Aug 17 2016, 08:16 PM


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^No no no. A Citroen 2CV. That's what they all need to be driving.
Even Takumi couldn't beat one on the downhill. The universe would see how much the 2CV deserves the win and just throw bad luck on Takumi for once.
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Posted: Aug 24 2016, 02:11 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Aug 16 2016, 10:32 AM)
Seven Star Leaf - The Roadster would hold out for 1 round at best, and the R34 would lose halfway through round 1.
Toudou Juku - Kyouichi would beat Daiki and Sakai on his car's abilities alone. Sakai's rhythm-disrupting tricks wouldn't do anything too catastrophic, as Kyouichi graduated from the exact same racing school and likes to play it safe anyway. Tomoyuki will then make short work of him, because he's an actual pro who even Takumi had trouble beating, and is behind the wheel of a very well set-up car. The Evo's power advantage and AWD traction won't make up for the EK9's superior braking and cornering, and Kyouichi couldn't push his car to the exact same extent Tomoyuki could (during the last race in the series, Tomoyuki looks at Takumi's driving - which at this point is so good it makes nearly all the Kanagawa races a complete bore - and remarks that Takumi's techniques are almost on a professional level at this point. Almost. That should give a good idea of what Kyouichi's up against).
Saitama Alliance - Kyouko puts up a decent fight, but loses to the Evo's superior abilities. Nobuhiko keeps up about as well as the Speed Stars kept up with the Red Suns. Wataru would almost beat him though, and the Cappuccino would straight up destroy him (even more so if it started raining, because Kyouichi really wouldn't want to push it under those conditions).
Purple Shadow - Either God Hand or God Foot would annihilate him completely.
Team 246 - Kobayakawa loses because his Evo doesn't measure up to Kyouichi's Evo. Takumi could keep up with Omiya even though the Roadster's rear wing gave it a huge braking advantage, and Kyouichi would have an even easier time with his car's 350hp, anti-lag and AWD.
Whatever the next team was called - Beats Minagawa, loses to Kai.
Whatever the next next team was called - Has a close race with Okuyama and manages to win, doesn't even manage to keep up with Ikeda.
Shinigami - Not even a race. Kyouichi lives, but only because Shinigami's true target is Ryousuke.
Sidewinder - Complete defeat. In the manga, God Foot himself says he'd be a little worried if he were racing Go Hojo. Even if Kyouichi made some huge upgrades to his Evo to keep up with Go's seriously fast NSX, he'd soon start falling back on every corner. And on the downhill, Shinji would have an even easier time with his perfect knowledge of the course and whatever modifications have been done to his 86. Kyouichi would be able to put up a fight, but I don't see him lasting even one round.

What about the Man of Lan Evo V and VI (Aikawa and Ichijo)
Seri
Posted: Aug 24 2016, 04:27 PM


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He'd destroy them.
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Rossriders
Posted: Aug 29 2016, 01:37 PM


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I'm with Seri, there would be no contest outside either driver resorting to trying to force Sudo out of the game with oil on the course on a practice run.

This is simply me pulling things out my ass even with (not much) thought put into this, but given what happened with Project D and those sly shifty pricks, if they even get a chance to pull an oil slick trap could be possible maybe.

But speaking purely in a 'zero context' match with no chance for the Evo team to use said Oil slick, both drivers would be more screwed than Konami.

Guy in Evo 5 would not last, it would either be shorter than when he raced with KT or maybe just a little longer. The former only happened because A, Keisuke had no chance to practice and B, was doing so in an car he never drove. A car he's race against yes with a very good driver but one he's never driven personally.

Had the conditions been more even, the race would have been more or less over before it began.

In the case of the latter, Kyoichi would have held back to assest the driver's abilities and would pick a point to which to pass him and end it.

Guy in Evo 6 would have identical issues. He'd likely get a rude awakening by how much later Kyoichi would be able to brake and then there's the misfire system along with how he's tuned his car and the potential power difference. It would only last on virtue of Kyoichi taking a safe route if he did so.

Otherwise he'd simply conclude the race at any given point after the start if he choose to do so.

Hell, Seiji would probably be able to beat them without much a problem, it would just be his race to loose (again), he keeps his cool (and assuming he learned after getting taken down by Takumi, Keisuke and Kai), I don't see either Evo driver lasting against even Seiji. Granted it's opinion with very little to support that though.

Otherwise I agree a lot with Meteor with not much to disagree with.

I don't know about if Kai would have achieved a win but considering Kai was willing to do the jumping on Irohazaka, something Sudo had known as well, it probably would have happened, Sudo would have been willing to maybe risk the jump but the gutters are a whole other story as that was something Kai did not know, and I suspect even the locals may have not figured to use them either.

This is my two cents...about 5 days after the last post.
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Posted: Sep 10 2016, 02:55 PM


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QUOTE (Meteor @ Aug 16 2016, 02:32 AM)
Seven Star Leaf - The Roadster would hold out for 1 round at best, and the R34 would lose halfway through round 1.
Toudou Juku - Kyouichi would beat Daiki and Sakai on his car's abilities alone. Sakai's rhythm-disrupting tricks wouldn't do anything too catastrophic, as Kyouichi graduated from the exact same racing school and likes to play it safe anyway. Tomoyuki will then make short work of him, because he's an actual pro who even Takumi had trouble beating, and is behind the wheel of a very well set-up car. The Evo's power advantage and AWD traction won't make up for the EK9's superior braking and cornering, and Kyouichi couldn't push his car to the exact same extent Tomoyuki could (during the last race in the series, Tomoyuki looks at Takumi's driving - which at this point is so good it makes nearly all the Kanagawa races a complete bore - and remarks that Takumi's techniques are almost on a professional level at this point. Almost. That should give a good idea of what Kyouichi's up against).
Saitama Alliance - Kyouko puts up a decent fight, but loses to the Evo's superior abilities. Nobuhiko keeps up about as well as the Speed Stars kept up with the Red Suns. Wataru would almost beat him though, and the Cappuccino would straight up destroy him (even more so if it started raining, because Kyouichi really wouldn't want to push it under those conditions).
Purple Shadow - Either God Hand or God Foot would annihilate him completely.
Team 246 - Kobayakawa loses because his Evo doesn't measure up to Kyouichi's Evo. Takumi could keep up with Omiya even though the Roadster's rear wing gave it a huge braking advantage, and Kyouichi would have an even easier time with his car's 350hp, anti-lag and AWD.
Whatever the next team was called - Beats Minagawa, loses to Kai.
Whatever the next next team was called - Has a close race with Okuyama and manages to win, doesn't even manage to keep up with Ikeda.
Shinigami - Not even a race. Kyouichi lives, but only because Shinigami's true target is Ryousuke.
Sidewinder - Complete defeat. In the manga, God Foot himself says he'd be a little worried if he were racing Go Hojo. Even if Kyouichi made some huge upgrades to his Evo to keep up with Go's seriously fast NSX, he'd soon start falling back on every corner. And on the downhill, Shinji would have an even easier time with his perfect knowledge of the course and whatever modifications have been done to his 86. Kyouichi would be able to put up a fight, but I don't see him lasting even one round.

thumbsup.gif

Nice analysis.

I'd love to see Sudo race and beat the arrogant Minagawa with his careful racing style.

Skill wise I rank Sudo and Wataru on the same level.

Sudo would win on Irohazaka, but on the extremely dangerous Shomaru pass, Sudo would worry too much about his life and not damaging his precious car, so my money is on the reckless, wild Wataru laugh2.gif
r35gtr
  Posted: Sep 11 2016, 08:00 PM


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For me, Wataru is a shallow character. his main driving force it to show the world that he can beat rich kids with his old car.

He says it again and again, he finds pleasure in leaving newer cars.

On the other hand, Sudo is about logical winning. weather wataru uses the " But kick turbo" or the " Supercharged" version of his Levin, Sudo's 350hp ALS equipped evo 3 will make minced meat out of it.


I just hate it that the 4th and 5th stage left Sudo on the sidelines.
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Posted: Sep 13 2016, 03:47 PM


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QUOTE (r35gtr @ Sep 11 2016, 11:00 PM)
For me, Wataru is a shallow character.  his main driving force it to show the world that he can beat rich kids with his old car.

He says it again and again, he finds pleasure in leaving newer cars. 

On the other hand,  Sudo is about logical winning.  weather wataru uses the " But kick turbo" or the " Supercharged" version of his Levin,  Sudo's 350hp ALS equipped evo 3 will make minced meat out of it.


I just hate it that the 4th and 5th stage left Sudo on the sidelines.

Shallow perhaps, although I can think of shallower characters within the series alone (guys in Lan evo team and the guys in the S15 to name just a few), although I'm a bit more frustrated on some end how quite a lot of characters didn't get so much attention but; That's how Shigeno more or less wrote things out.

It was (is) his story and he did what he wanted. How anyone else reacts is gonna be case by case even if a great many of us can agree on some things (5th stage animations with characters could have been done better, then again maybe I was expecting too much compared to 4th stage some 7-8 years prior to 5th).

I do agree with Metor that Wataru probably would probably almost beat him. Maybe...

I'm more debated with some racers than others, the other thread about Shimigami vs the Night kids...it's like pitting a Bengal tiger vs a Rottweiler. The canine can be dangerous no doubt, but it's up against a big cat. That's would only be a battle in so much as there was a race. As for an actual fight...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But with a case like Wataru and Sudo, I'm not so sure. Then again I'm batshit insane so take this as you all will;

Wataru has been shown to be reckless but he's got some actual skill backing that recklessness. Apart from obvious plot, he lost to Takumi primarily for not taking into account the mud on the side of the Shomaru pass to now be low enough to do an actual pass.

For his fight against Keisuke, was a combination of exhaustion and bad timing, and in fairness a person exhausted is more prone to making mistakes than one more rested and focus. That isn't to say they will, but it's far more likely.

In that impromptu race against Keisuke when he had refused to battle on Akagi (since it's principle for the Red suns to race against others elsewhere than their home circuit unless I miss-understood that somehow), and forced it, Wataru might have had an actual shot at a victory, but we'll never really know since it was brought to a close with that disabled S13 on the side of the road.

As stated already, Sudo is a logical person, it would be interesting to see Kyouichi's reaction when facing off against Wataru, what he'd approach or attempt. If it was in a battle in the same conditions Wataru faced Keisuke in stage 4, Sudo would have an advantage traction wise, and yes the ALS would remove or at least bring to a minimal turbo lag.

But conversely Wataru's 86 has a supercharger which typically means a better all around power band. Unless fan-translations, funimation's dub and subs are completely off base, Wataru noted how he had over 200 to the tires.

To the tires...not the crank. Assuming that's accurate, that could be in the ballpark somewhere between or below 230 to 250 or higher. While that's still at best a 100+ bhp gap to the Evo, and some of that power will be lost anyway, it's still potentially more useable power for a longer period of time.

If Sudo was to win, he'd wait for an opportunity to safely pass or pull out his counter attack moves. That is assuming they'll stick and he can get the lead.

Really...to me at least, it could be almost anyone's game but the odds favor Sudo more than Wataru.

My two cents for what it's worth.