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> ID4 Arcade Poll, Question to Forum fans
editor
  Posted: Apr 29 2007, 04:36 PM


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We have heard from sources that the reaction to the ID4 systems at ASI have been mixed - some operators have balked at the price of the machine and the need for ALL.Net support. The need for extensive translation and a new cabinet design has caused issues regarding initial orders taken from the show.

This all leads to the possibility of a no show of the game in US and UK facilities - those initial orders taken would be given a deal on the next driver from Sega (Flat Out). We are trying to get a official statement but SAU is renown for limited comments.

Question - would fans petition SAU to bring the game over?
razorsuKe
Posted: Apr 29 2007, 04:59 PM


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well my opinion is that I'm not going to play it anyways.
It's a totally different game and all the stuff I have from before becomes useless.

Infact I don't even know why it's called version 4, it's like saying MvC2 is Street Fighter 4. Totally different games.
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207
Posted: Apr 29 2007, 06:28 PM


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QUOTE (editor @ Today at 8:36 PM)
We have heard from sources that the reaction to the ID4 systems at ASI have been mixed - some operators have balked at the price of the machine and the need for ALL.Net support. The need for extensive translation and a new cabinet design has caused issues regarding initial orders taken from the show.

This all leads to the possibility of a no show of the game in US and UK facilities - those initial orders taken would be given a deal on the next driver from Sega (Flat Out). We are trying to get a official statement but SAU is renown for limited comments.

Question - would fans petition SAU to bring the game over?

interesting, i wonder if montreal is going to balk at it too wink2.gif

This post has been edited by 207 on Apr 29 2007, 06:29 PM
ChaosSoldier
Posted: Apr 29 2007, 09:35 PM


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as far as i'm concerned. this game has more setbacks than it does perks. i think that ver4 is going to be a huge let down given the circumstances needed to play this game to its full potential and the attitude of those that will be supplying the game at our arcades. i know that we will not have ver4 connected to the net. no arcade here will do it. so theres no point in playing if we cant renew our cards or rank up in battles. i doubt ill play ver4. but i would still like to see it hit the US, just for the sake of gaming.
editor
  Posted: Apr 30 2007, 02:02 AM


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You have to be careful about making such statements.

You have no proof that Gameworks that already run connected Sega machines at their facility will not run a few connected ID4 machines - but that would only by 14 facilities across North America.

Also the claims about the machine not working without ALL.Net operational is not true. The stats need to be transmitted back to the server, but a machine can run without a open link. It's dangerous to make sweeping statements before the international distributors have confirmed plans.

We work in the amusement scene and that is why our information is focused on the sector - it is a difficult market to report so please be careful and base information on what you know.
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Posted: Apr 30 2007, 03:26 AM


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so editor
can you still get a card, renew it, also post times on the rankings and all that without the internet connection?
if so, i could see alot more arcades getting it

EDIT: dw found answer

This post has been edited by W7F@! on Apr 30 2007, 04:44 AM
?wha?
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 04:33 AM


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but it all boils back down to how profitable those machines can be. I've seen more than 60% of arcades shut up shop cause they couldn't keep up. This is requiring at least ADSL to become relatively functional, and that would add cost. For the IR times, card renewal and stuff you said that it needed an active net connection, and frankly, most smaller arcades (which in main is the bulk of arcades around the place) don't have that.

but still, I would give it a shot, but highly doubt I'll be as active as I was with v3 a year ago
editor
  Posted: Apr 30 2007, 08:29 AM


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I see two options:

- Gamesworks uses the machine as a centre piece attraction, as it is too rich for the rest of the market

- SAU gets a none IC version which just races (the worst possible option in my book)

All this said I would like to correct the issue of where you play. Guys come over the the Barcade site and type in your location and see how many 'actual' arcade venues are close by. I have noticed a trend for people to keep saying there are no arcades, but when I mention:

-Dave & Busters (over 40 sites)
-Jillians (over 10 sites)
-GameWorks (over 10)
-AMC (over 400 sites)
-AMF (over 400 sites)
-CyberQuest (over 20 sites)
-Cinemark (over 200 sites)
-Malibu GP (over 20 sites)
-Fun Centre (over 10 sites)
-Franks Entertainment (over over 10 sites)
-SuperPlay USA (over 20 sites)
-Namco Cybertainment (over 200 sites)
-Regal Entertainment (over 500 sites)
-Chuck e. Cheese (over 500 sites)
-Petes Pizza (over 50 sites)
-Champps Entertainment (over 40 sites)
-Mr. Gattis (over 200 sites)
-Incredible Pizza (over 40 sites)
-ESPNZone (over seven sites)
-Fox and Hound (over 70 sites)
etc..

And that is just my current USA list for the SPOnG.com feature I am writing. Raw Thrills have sold over 5,000 units of their driver which is back to pre-1998 sales numbers.

All the best,
ChaosSoldier
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 09:39 AM


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no proof? it's stated on sega's initial d page. how much more proof do YOU need? i never said that suppliers won't have the game itself, nor did i say that the machine won't work. i said that unless cabinets are hooked up to the net, we won't be able to inspect and rank up our cars on our cards. i do understand that you are doing what you can to well inform those on the forum of ver4 and such, but just because you know when, where, who will be supplying/playing ver4 around the country, doesn't mean you know crap about the game itself. before YOU make such bold statements, maybe you should do your research more, or try and actually understand what i said in my post. unless you show me some reason as to why what i said would be incorrect, i will say that what i've previously stated is correct.

This post has been edited by ChaosSoldier on Apr 30 2007, 09:51 AM
editor
  Posted: Apr 30 2007, 10:40 AM


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Proof.... yeah right.

Some facts, yes I have played the game (I had over seven games on the system at ASI last month), fact yes I used the card borrowed from Sega Rosso representative at the event (I supplied the pictures using it).

My comment was regarding those that stated the game 'would not work' if it was not connected - I did not say anything about the stats (ID.NET) or competition (ALL.NET). We revealed that the machine can vend and run cards if unconnected but they will not be registered on ID.NET.

And I think that trying to avoid the information that we have brought to the forum is a little more than just knowing who the developers are. We supplied the information here first, supplied proof and images and still find forum members that live in denial!

All the best,
Phantom_R32
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 03:20 PM


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I know my arcade won't get AS4 so I don't care. We'll get WMMT3 for sure since our arcade is ran by Namco Cybertainment, andddddd a Gameworks is about an hour from here and I'm sure they'll get an AS4 some day.

This post has been edited by Phantom_R32 on Apr 30 2007, 03:21 PM
Kfuse
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 03:35 PM


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but geez could imagine the price to play that cabinet. Man companies will be charging up the rear end to play that to cover the internet connection or just have the IC cards.
ChaosSoldier
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 09:36 PM


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please tell me in my post where i said that the machines would not work please?...do take note that it does not say i have edited it at all...here ill post it again for you...

QUOTE
as far as i'm concerned. this game has more setbacks than it does perks. i think that ver4 is going to be a huge let down given the circumstances needed to play this game to its full potential and the attitude of those that will be supplying the game at our arcades. i know that we will not have ver4 connected to the net. no arcade here will do it. so theres no point in playing if we cant renew our cards or rank up in battles. i doubt ill play ver4. but i would still like to see it hit the US, just for the sake of gaming.


you say i'm in denial? learn how to read. you think that just because you brought us information that you become someone who deserves recognition as some sort of god? get real. if you can't read what i've said than you don' t know jack about what i'm talking about. did i say the machines wouldnt work? uhh...no...

QUOTE
Proof.... yeah right.
what more proof do you want then what's posted on the official site?

it seems to me that just because you were caught misinterpreting someone else's post, you become all defensive and try to make yourself look like the good guy even though proof is staring in your face (i.e. the official site). you think that just because "i brought info here first" and all that stuff makes you superior to everyone else? bullshit...admit that you were wrong in saying what you said and drop it. if you wish to escalate this any further, i won't mind taking text from the official site to show to you...

you said in your statement that you wre talking about those who said it would not work. as far as i'm concerned, if that was the case, you would have posted so sooner, but it is plain and obvious that you were directing that post at me. so take a good look at what i said and show me where i said the machine would not work...

This post has been edited by ChaosSoldier on Apr 30 2007, 10:01 PM
RX-7 Spirit fo sho
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 09:49 PM


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whats up with the high testosterone levels

the game WILL hit america
not every arcade will get it because not many arcades can afford it or have the facilities to get it fully operational, and not only that, the price it'll have to charge...and its probably not worth it for many arcades

i believe only the gameworks arcade and he westwood arcade in cali would get the machines

and thats cuz they gots $$$$
ChaosSoldier
Posted: Apr 30 2007, 10:00 PM


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QUOTE (RX-7 Spirit fo sho @ Today at 7:49 PM)
whats up with the high testosterone levels

well i'm just defending myself and what i've said. if i said that you were wrong for saying something and the reason why i said you're wrong has nothing to do with what you actually said, then wouldn't you question as to why you were considered wrong?...
editor
  Posted: May 1 2007, 03:16 PM


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Oh 'ChaosSoldier', why so angry!

I am no god, no expert or not infaliable - I go on record to correct a issue and suddenly it all war and knives. I love the way that I have been attacked for bring information here first! It is as if there is some resentment for being correct!

I am not of a attitude to play 'flame mail' with individuals - if I said something that was incorrect please let me correct it.

But I stand by my original comments... if you have a problem with that - seek help!
DamienWolf
Posted: May 1 2007, 09:39 PM


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QUOTE (editor @ Today at 7:16 AM)
Oh 'ChaosSoldier', why so angry!

I am no god, no expert or not infaliable - I go on record to correct a issue and suddenly it all war and knives. I love the way that I have been attacked for bring information here first! It is as if there is some resentment for being correct!

I am not of a attitude to play 'flame mail' with individuals - if I said something that was incorrect please let me correct it.

But I stand by my original comments... if you have a problem with that - seek help!

Man, really, both of you should just say "I am right" and just drop it coz this might turn into a flame war. But if it came down to it, editor, ChaosSoldier was just putting in HIS ideas about the situation. You could clarify it but ix nay on the side remarks as if to show that "hey me almighty, I know more about game than all". We know you've got the juice on IDAS4, lets not get too holier-than-thou here.

I suggest both of you just drop it and lets stay on topic.

I'm not sure if I have a say here because I come from a 3rd world country and I'm not sure if SEGA would consider us good enough market but Ver3 and BG1-4 were big hits down here in the Philippines. Yet I only know of ONE arcade who MIGHT consider taking it and that would be Powerstation (I think SEGA owns this, not sure). I've spoken with the manager of TIMEZONE (who has BG4) and to Quantum and Synergy and they've all expressed doubts if they will have any internet connection in the future. So IF we may get it, we may be on the CRAPPY end of the chain not being able to renew our cards or gain battle levels or race anybody outside the specific arcade.

I dont think we can even post times. Man, they should just make a VERSION 4 continuation of VER3 than an INITIAL D ARCADE STAGE 4 which is like an entirely new game...

Try it? Of course I will. But I dont think it will even be 1/120th of how I played Ver3 or even BG4.
ChaosSoldier
Posted: May 1 2007, 09:56 PM


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QUOTE (editor @ Today at 1:16 PM)
Oh 'ChaosSoldier', why so angry!

I am no god, no expert or not infaliable - I go on record to correct a issue and suddenly it all war and knives. I love the way that I have been attacked for bring information here first! It is as if there is some resentment for being correct!

I am not of a attitude to play 'flame mail' with individuals - if I said something that was incorrect please let me correct it.

But I stand by my original comments... if you have a problem with that - seek help!

i apologize if you assume my tone to be "angry"...that is not my intent to attack you with anger. but you have to stop with the whole "i brought this info here first" as it does not help your case any...

but you have to realize that what you are saying is irrelevant to what i said. like i said before, there would be little point to have ver4 if those who will provide this game to us (the arcades) will not take the extra effort to connect cabinets to the net. without the connection, cabinets will not be able to allow inspection of cards, and ranking up in battles. that is what i've stated. what you stated and assumed was that i said that the machines would not work period, without net connection (which we all know is not true). and thus you went on with your statement. i defended my side as i believed i was correct and that you misunderstood what i've said. i've no intent to start a flame war, but also i will not stand idly by when i feel that what another has said something i believe to be unjustified is stated. i will apologize for the tone you assumed i had, but i wont apologize for WHAT i've said.

This post has been edited by ChaosSoldier on May 1 2007, 09:57 PM
editor
  Posted: May 2 2007, 01:45 AM


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Thank you ChaosSoldier for explaining the situation and clarifying your position. I think I understand it better and see that there was no animosity in your reply.

A factor in my defensiveness about the "who brought it here first" issue is a result of the personal attack I received when I did first mention the news and information. However a number of those did apologies later - though there was a few hard cases who even tried to manipulate the facts.

That said - the issue of 'connected' machines is still hard to address without more information from SAU on what they will bring over. I still feel that a ALL.NET service (connected) could be run at GameWorks. Agreed for the majority of the industry this would not work.

I played non-connected machines at ASI and saw that the units worked and games could be played - but as you say no stat reporting back to a central server, and no card reporting - so the IC Card would be a personal storage device only (as was done in Europe with Ghost Squad).

I just find it hard to rule the game out just because it has no connected stats feature? It would still have the network game and level progression element as with the current ID3 machines - or more importantly with the MT3 machines.

All the best,
ChaosSoldier
Posted: May 2 2007, 02:55 AM


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well i am not ruling out the game because of my reasons. i am ruling it out because in the long run for most arcades, this game will pose to be a let down. while machines and cards will all work properly, when come time to inspect your card (where you transfer data from one card to another, and amassing another set of 150 plays), players will not be able to do so without having an internet connection. this information was taken from the official site. that being said, once players use up their card's 150 plays (card life), and must inspect to continue using the car they have tuned, many will be disappointed to know that they wont be able to do so without the connection to the network. this is based on the broad assumption that most arcades dont have games hooked up to the net. that being said, what makes version 4 the beginning of arcades setting up internet connection to games? it doesnt, so that means that even if version 4 hits the US, it wont be able to be enjoyed to the fullest extent. and on the note of ranking up in level, its been confirmed that players cannot increase their rank unless battling players through international battles via the network. its been made this way to give all players fair ground when battling opponents. an example would be: a player going to his/her local arcade and beats all the beginners and ranks up to S rank. this doesnt show that the person deserves that S rank, it just shows he/she could beat beginners. with this new feature to allow rank increase/decrease only through the network makes it fair to everyone and shows that whatever rank a person has, is the rank they really deserve. and international battles are only accessible through the network. again, not possible for most arcades. so what im saying is that because most arcades dont use an internet connection on games that allow for that feature, it will drastically bring down the impact version 4 has because version 4 does not only include the internet connection feature, its full potential relies on it. that being said, i worry this game will let down many.

This post has been edited by ChaosSoldier on May 2 2007, 02:56 AM
editor
  Posted: May 2 2007, 08:05 AM


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The arcade sector looked at the original ID1-3 as 'sleeper' hits, games beyond the norm that found favor in a depressed market.

As amusement starts to redefine itself there is a place for a game of this kind. I agree it will not have the level of ID3, but it will be enough of a draw. How much of a draw for US sites is difficult.

The game however is not a draw for encouraging connectivity at facilities - GameWorks are the only ALL.NET sites, and the Global VR system and Incredible Technologies systems are exclusive to their platforms.

Try looking at a non-connected ID4 as a stop-gap piece as is VF5. I think by 2008 the majority of venues will have front and back of house broadband as we are at a 30% connected state now.

All the best,
Kfuse
Posted: May 2 2007, 08:29 AM


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So the game heavily relies on internet for everything...hmm that kinda wierd.

I'm surprised SEGA didn't just code the system to for battle rankings to where people of only one rank lower can battle for higher example.

lets say you get a guy who battle ranks up at Rank S. but you get a noob at rank C. two try to battle and can't be done. because the noob's rank is 2 ranks lower than the other guy.

after reading this thread only hoping that some arcades will have internet connection when it hits US.
ChaosSoldier
Posted: May 2 2007, 10:15 AM


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QUOTE (Kfuse @ Today at 6:29 AM)
So the game heavily relies on internet for everything...hmm that kinda wierd.

I'm surprised SEGA didn't just code the system to for battle rankings to where people of only one rank lower can battle for higher example.

lets say you get a guy who battle ranks up at Rank S. but you get a noob at rank C. two try to battle and can't be done. because the noob's rank is 2 ranks lower than the other guy.

after reading this thread only hoping that some arcades will have internet connection when it hits US.

how its works is that, when you select to play an international battle, it will ALWAYS set you up against an opponent that is the same rank. it will ot ever set you up against someone that much higher or lower than you.

---

editor:

okay granted that this game will make enough of a draw to the US, but i'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that your thesis of the situation is based on the money's point of view. i mean, sure, its initial d version 4, of course major arcades/facilities will get it, but from the standpoint of the actual players, if we (the players) cant fully enjoy this game because our (local) arcade wont set up a connection for ver4, then it sort of gives us a disappointed feeling as we cant enjoy the game as much as those whose arcade does connect it to the network.

my only issue with the game is that, because some can enjoy this game more than others (given that, some arcades have it connected, and some dont), then i dont really think that this game was made fair, as many will go on playing without ranking up, and without inspecting, while a minority will be able to rank up and inspect their cars with ease. because situation discriminates players from enjoying this game more than others, is why i feel this game has persoanlly let me down.
editor
  Posted: May 2 2007, 10:29 AM


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ChaosSoldier

Yes, I am looking at the operator (money) view. I once had your views on 'best play' elements, but in the US market my personal play ethics don't work. The best example is Ghost Squad - which had a IC card feature in Japan and Europe, but the SAU guys had it pulled out for USA sales... and it sold okay!

A little factoid - I played the game unconnected at ASI and it did not jump to the connected feature as it was set in default mode. I think this could be the get round for non-connected US machines (though a lot of translations would be needed).

Finally, I understand your perspective that if the game is not the full version as in Japan then it holds little interest to you, but I place you in the top 5% of cash-drop (if not higher). An operator at GW or D&B care about the impulse 20% (players of Fast and the Furious examples).

All the best,
ChaosSoldier
Posted: May 3 2007, 03:56 AM


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that may be true, but morally, to me, a game is nothing more than crap unless it can deliver a good product without circumstances or extra tidbits needed to make the gameplay experience its best. so as far as your point of view, sure itll make sales, but as for me (and probably the rest of this forum) will be disappointed in the fact that a good number of us wont be able to inspect /rank up in ver4 because of the way this game was set up to run.

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