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> Stick shift, is it hard?
Lonely_Driver
Posted: May 21 2012, 02:03 PM


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QUOTE (Cactus @ 7 minutes, 37 seconds ago)
I actually really liked the old SMG. It got bad press because it wasn't a semi-automatic, nor did it behave like one. It was a computer controlled manual. If you drive it like a manual, then it reacts exactly like a proper SMG in a race car.

the oldest version of the SMG that I've driven was in a 2008 BMW M6 and its was really hard to nose around the shop, seems like you would rev it up and would instantly throw all 500hp to the ground w00t2.gif

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MetalMan777
Posted: May 21 2012, 04:00 PM


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QUOTE (Lonely_Driver @ 1 hour, 57 minutes ago)
the oldest version of the SMG that I've driven was in a 2008 BMW M6 and its was really hard to nose around the shop, seems like you would rev it up and would instantly throw all 500hp to the ground w00t2.gif

Did you press the "M" button? There's only 400 horsepower available from the normal startup. Also, there's adjustment buttons for shift intensity right next to the shift lever. You have to really ease onto the throttle, like you were taking any manual v10 car around the shop. I'll admit, there's a learning curve, but it's a great transmission. The E46 M3's SMG wasn't as good, but it was the first generation.
Lonely_Driver
Posted: May 21 2012, 07:19 PM


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felt like clutch was an on/off switch no matter what type of throttle input I tried.
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MetalMan777
Posted: May 21 2012, 07:49 PM


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That's what the myriad computer settings are for.
RedComet
Posted: Apr 30 2013, 06:33 PM


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I had to teach my fiancee to drive manual. I can't say it was the easiest thing to teach someone, especially when you're not good at breaking down a complicated idea (like how a driveline works) into simple terms. But, now, my fiancee drives manual better than 95% of our friends. biggrin.gif

I had no choice in the matter growing up; everyone in my family had a manual car.
Spaz
Posted: May 1 2013, 10:51 AM


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I've thrown this around a lot lately, but it's thread-appropriate. This is how you shift:

YOUTUBE ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7D6mCw-Vvc )


That's my mechanic/automotive guidance counselor.
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Tygur
Posted: May 1 2013, 11:15 AM


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Thats quick. I'm generally a lot more careful. Afraid to fux the synchros or something.
Banken
Posted: May 1 2013, 06:20 PM


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My dad taught me how to drive a manual. He did a bad job at it.

The hardest part is starting in first (or reverse).

Instead of making them concentrate on manipulating both the clutch and gas, you should just tell them to hold the gas still (hold RPMs steady at about 2K for a Japanese sports car) and concentrate on letting the clutch out. Just do that until they've mastered starting and stopping. Also make sure they have the muscle memory to restart the car immediately when it stalls (important in traffic). The ability to manipulate the clutch and the gas at the same time doesn't matter until you need to take off on a hill (which is not hard... just requires muscle memory).

For shifting just concentrate on building muscle memory and simplify the shifting hand movement to back and forth movements. In my experience most cars will shift fine with almost no left or right pressure, except for fifth and reverse. Also, most cars will shift diagonally without needing to physically 'H' it.

It also helps to have a light car with good low-end torque, a light, smooth clutch and a long, concise shift stroke. Which doesn't really exist in America any more, so a sports car is probably the easiest...

I learned on an old Toyota truck, which in hindsight was a very hard car to drive (the clutch wasn't super heavy but it wasn't smooth, it had little torque, and the steering ratio was CRAZY...you had two turn the wheel almost twice to take a regular corner). The shifter was long but it was smooth and concise. When I first drove a manual car it was much easier.

Also, getting them to play a video game with shifting helps with gear selection and maintaining RPMs, and doesn't cost you any money.
Tygur
Posted: May 1 2013, 08:32 PM


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I'm teaching my wife on my Xterra. Its great for learners. Its probably near 4800lbs, but so much torque you don't need to hit the gas, you can let the clutch out at idle. Shes scared to death of manuals, though. I would let her try on the Z but it has a... touchy clutch. The last owner said it had a "stage 2" clutch that the owner before him put in. Its more like an on-off switch but its very unpredictable where it will grab. Everyone who has tried to drive it has stalled it the first time, even people that have been driving manuals their whole lives. Maybe that damper, or whatever it is those Zs came with on the clutch line, doesn't play well with a clutch like that, I've heard of people replacing that thing with a brake hose from a 280zx. Maybe will try that one of these days.

Sorry, I rant a lot. *slaps self*
MetalMan777
Posted: May 2 2013, 04:34 PM


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My M Coupe had a similar thing in the clutch line. BMW calls it a delay valve. It's supposed to keep you from dropping the clutch too quickly, but what it really does is make you look likea retard if you let the clutch out like anybody who knows how to drive a manual. It was any easy fix to remove it.

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Spaz
Posted: May 2 2013, 08:13 PM


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My DSM had one, and the Evo has one. I installed two clutches on both and neither were deleted. It prevents you from dumping the clutch, and in all honesty if your footwork is consistent, the clutch will be too. The video above is also on a car with the clutch pill still in, and he basically refused to remove the pill on my Evo when I had him put the Exedy in.
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Banken
Posted: May 2 2013, 09:50 PM


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Tilton also sells a clutch damper valve. It doesn't slow the shift at all but prevents damage to the clutch. It's pretty much a win-win. It only slows down the fluid one way.
Tygur
Posted: May 3 2013, 02:51 AM


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That makes sense. Just curious here, why is it such a big thing in the Z31 community to change it then? Everyone says replacing it with a straight line makes the clutch feel much better. I know theres something odd about it, it does some funny things that no other manual clutch I've used does. The grab point is sometimes very inconsistent. Maybe its worn? The clutch is from 2 owners and probably 8 years/40k miles ago. And I have no idea what that guy put in, but I've heard he was very hard on it. And I've never worn out a clutch so I don't have experience with the symptoms first-hand.
Banken
Posted: May 3 2013, 03:33 AM


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Probably worn. 40K miles of abuse is pretty much...dead. I mean, do you think a racing engine would last 40K miles or racing? No...it's more like 2-3K. At least you have an FR car, so the labor to take the transmission out isn't that bad (compared to an 4WD or MR car).
Tygur
Posted: May 3 2013, 04:48 AM


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Thanks for the advice. I'll check into it and see whats up and probably put a stock clutch in if needed. Also, yeah, a lot easier, especially with the stock exhaust manifolds gone, theres nothing covering any of the bell housing bolts and they are easily accessed.
mgear95
Posted: May 15 2013, 01:41 AM


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You know you're doing it efficiently when the shifter pops into gear with next to no effort. I read on some old BMW forums that you should treat the shifter knob like an empty eggshell (eg when you have drained out all the internals). Good shift points and downshift points will feel light and kinda wants to suck the shifter into gear.
DreadAngel
Posted: May 25 2013, 09:33 PM


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QUOTE (mgear95 @ May 15 2013, 07:41 PM)
You know you're doing it efficiently when the shifter pops into gear with next to no effort. I read on some old BMW forums that you should treat the shifter knob like an empty eggshell (eg when you have drained out all the internals). Good shift points and downshift points will feel light and kinda wants to suck the shifter into gear.

Not entirely...

Efficiently is more a measure of how much rpm is lost during the entire change... Anyone [Figure of speech] can change gears, but efficiently is different, if you lose only a few hundred rpm [In context of the engine, gear ratio, gearbox, etc] then you're efficient where as someone who can change gear while losing thousand rpm or more is not.
MetalMan777
Posted: Jun 9 2015, 09:40 AM


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Am I the only guy who double clutches every downshift even though all my cars have synchros? That's a tough habit to break
Kiroshino
Posted: Jun 9 2015, 10:45 AM


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I think Rudy does.

I don't. Always felt awkward to me.
Möbius
Posted: Jun 9 2015, 12:49 PM


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QUOTE (MetalMan777 @ 3 hours, 8 minutes ago)
Am I the only guy who double clutches every downshift even though all my cars have synchros? That's a tough habit to break

Depends on what you learned to drive on I guess.
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Falbere
Posted: Jun 9 2015, 05:35 PM


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QUOTE (MetalMan777 @ 7 hours, 54 minutes ago)
Am I the only guy who double clutches every downshift even though all my cars have synchros? That's a tough habit to break

Used to drive trucks? :3
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MetalMan777
Posted: Jun 9 2015, 05:40 PM


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Just cars with shitty, old synchros that only work half the time. I tried to rev-match with only one clutch press today, didn't feel right, and I found myself double clutching when I meant not to.
Spaz
Posted: Jun 10 2015, 11:21 AM


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Double-clutch? Never. I'll heel-toe downshifts about half the time though... Don't have a pair of shoes/sandals/bare feet that I can't do it in. laugh2.gif
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MetalMan777
Posted: Jun 10 2015, 12:20 PM


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I heel-toe (or right side of foot-left side of foot) most of the time, but I double clutch every time.
Rudy
Posted: Jun 10 2015, 12:39 PM


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